Lastdragon
Member
Posts: 36
03 Black Standard, Yukon America
Yukon, Oklahoma
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« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2013, 09:00:28 AM » |
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Condenser----  |
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Ronnie Evans
Yukon, America
Member #17151
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Blackduck
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« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2013, 09:16:05 AM » |
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Lets step right back to the beginning, why did the owner start throwing parts into it in the first place?
Would not start? running rough?
Cheers Steve
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2001 Standard, 78 Goldwing, VRCC 21411
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signart
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« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2013, 09:35:06 AM » |
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I'll have to agree with Lastdragon, before any thing else, it needs a good spark. Weak spark leads to bad condensor. Coils often to blame but seldom go bad.
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Tx Bohemian
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« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2013, 01:05:47 PM » |
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Lets step right back to the beginning, why did the owner start throwing parts into it in the first place?
Would not start? running rough?
He said it had a fuel problem and it progressed into a spark problem. So after I fix this there is still a fuel issue, supposedly. Not a lot of info but here it is. Jeff may not know what kinda fuel problem or how the owner knew it was a fuel problem and not something else. |
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Remember, if you are on a bike and wreck with a car no matter how "in the right" you are you are going to lose. RIDE LIKE EVERBODY IS OUT TO GET YOU!!
Al
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Blackduck
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« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2013, 01:23:19 PM » |
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Thanks better clean my glasses and read more slowly.
Cheers Steve
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2001 Standard, 78 Goldwing, VRCC 21411
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Tailgate Tommy
Member
Posts: 1438
2000 Interstate, 2001 Interstate and 2003 Standard
Fort Collins, Colorado
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« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2013, 05:10:45 PM » |
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I had the same symptoms on a '68 Buick once. Bad condenser.
tkylli
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old2soon
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« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2013, 05:17:48 PM » |
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Digging out the cobwebs-CONDENSER. Final answer. RIDE SAFE.
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Today is the tommorow you worried about yesterday. If at first you don't succeed screw it-save it for nite check. 1964 1968 U S Navy. Two cruises off Nam.
VRCCDS0240 2012 GL1800 Gold Wing Motor Trike conversion
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Jeff K
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« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2013, 06:01:21 PM » |
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Lets step right back to the beginning, why did the owner start throwing parts into it in the first place?
Would not start? running rough?
He said it had a fuel problem and it progressed into a spark problem. So after I fix this there is still a fuel issue, supposedly. Not a lot of info but here it is. Jeff may not know what kinda fuel problem or how the owner knew it was a fuel problem and not something else. Sorry, i don't have a lot of info. Though I said he is my neighbor that just means his house is next to mine. About 1,000 feet away, but still next to me. They watch our house and feed the critters when we are gone and I normally pay them for doing it. That is where our relationship starts and ends. To be honest I have no idea what either of their last names are or if they are married. I know he has been working on it since June, I know he originally thought it was a fuel problem. They did the carb and fuel pump first. I could hear it popping and backfiring like crazy as they were trying to get it running. Then one day he stopped by and ask to borrow a timing light, I gave him one. a week later he brought it back when I wasn't home. Months later he stopped by to give our dog a ball he had found, he works for the county park. It was then that he finally asked for help. I told him to tow it down and I'd take a look at it. Thats all I have. He called tonight and said he didn't know enough to buy the parts would I do it for him. So I'm shopping Ebay for an HEI Distributor. It may be a condenser, it is new, but that doesn't mean it's good. But if you saw how much play is in the shaft you'd say it needs to go. |
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RickMXZ
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« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2013, 08:13:20 AM » |
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One thought I have is; how's the cam timing and cam chain, sprockets. I don't think it's a plastic coated sprocket but if the chain is streched enough it could be jumping a tooth. If you crank the engine with the distributor cap off does the rotor continue to turn smoothly, not stopping unles the starter stops. And with number 1 cylinder at TDC is rotor lined up to number 1 plug position.
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Jeff K
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« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2013, 08:46:53 AM » |
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One thought I have is; how's the cam timing and cam chain, sprockets. I don't think it's a plastic coated sprocket but if the chain is streched enough it could be jumping a tooth. If you crank the engine with the distributor cap off does the rotor continue to turn smoothly, not stopping unles the starter stops. And with number 1 cylinder at TDC is rotor lined up to number 1 plug position.
No chain, gears. |
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R J
Member
Posts: 13380
DS-0009 ...... # 173
Des Moines, IA
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« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2013, 05:40:31 PM » |
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Jeff, if it was me I'd rebuild all the lower and upper bushings on the Dist shaft, once you have that solid, the old girl should start. If it doesn't start put a condenser in it and get ready to holler hal-alouya, as it will bee running.
My old 65 Bel Aire 6 banger, I changed the dist over to a HEI I think it was called and never looked back. My mom owned it in California, and when she passed away, the wife, I and oldest son went to California to bring furniture, clothes, 65 4 door Bel-Aire to Iowa.
Son drove the truck, U-Haul, and mom and I brought up the rear in the 65.
We left Oakland and everything went hunky gory till we started pulling I-80 over Donner Pass. 65 started bucking, I knew if I could make it to the top, there was a CHP garage at the top. About 2 miles from the top the old 65 quit. Son went on to the top, stopped at the CHP garage, and asked if anyone knew me. One old timer did, he said dad and mom are about 3 or 4 miles down the grade and he was wondering if a CHP Cruiser could come up and push us on into the shop. Cruiser got us in the shop and the bushings had gone dry and no one had oiled them. We put a tow trailer on the 65, and tied her down. Got it home, converted it to the HEI distributor, new bushings, a sensor light and added a MSD ignition and it was still running good after about 60K extra on the odometer.
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« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 05:46:10 PM by R J »
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44 Harley ServiCar   |
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Patrick
Member
Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2013, 07:33:26 AM » |
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Yep, this should be an easy fix. The old points distributors are good units. Replace bushing and its good to go for another 100K. The early HEI units had pick-up coil problems, they would go open when hot.
If there is fuel[accelerator pump], squeeze[compression], fire[spark], it'll start.
It appears the problem is a primary voltage issue compounded by a secondary voltage issue due to the defective bushing or incorrect cap/rotor or coil.
Manually breaking the points should produce a good spark from the coil wire and apparently that is not happening.
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Jeff K
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« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2013, 08:08:15 AM » |
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The owner wanted HEI to start with. He said that when he brought it. So i picked up an HEI unit from Ebay. It just came this morning.
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R J
Member
Posts: 13380
DS-0009 ...... # 173
Des Moines, IA
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« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2013, 09:42:42 AM » |
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Keep us updated Jeff. Tell Jo I said Howdy, and have a nice weekend.
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44 Harley ServiCar |
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Jeff K
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« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2013, 04:13:09 PM » |
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i dropped the new HEI dist in, eyeballed the timing, ran a hot to the battery for temporary power, hit the starter and .... VROOM! It fired right up and idled. So I fished a new wire from the fuse box to power the new Distributor and TA, DA. it's all good. Now i just have to tidy up the other "mechanic's" sins and send it home. Amazing how well it runs on 8 month old gas. They tried to replace the ignition switch, bugger it all up. I got it apart but the new switch is threaded crooked so it won't tighten up against the dash.  So I guess I'll put the old switch back in. They gave me the wrong wires so I'll have to run those back too, they are at least a foot too long. I told the guy they were wrong he assured me they were right, not.  |
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custom1
Member
Posts: 333
01 Interstate
SW Pa
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« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2013, 09:37:52 PM » |
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Awesome. That's not a bad looking truck. My dad had one like that, that we painted red with a black stripe that went across the hood and down the sides. It had a three on the tree that would jamb up when you would shift from first to second. There was a lot of slop in the linkage and it would end up being in two gears at the same time. We took that out and put a floor shifter in it. Memories..... That thing would not go anywhere in the snow. |
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John
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Brian
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« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2013, 04:30:59 AM » |
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Awesome. That's not a bad looking truck. My dad had one like that, that we painted red with a black stripe that went across the hood and down the sides. It had a three on the tree that would jamb up when you would shift from first to second. There was a lot of slop in the linkage and it would end up being in two gears at the same time. We took that out and put a floor shifter in it. Memories..... That thing would not go anywhere in the snow. That is a nice looking truck from that angle. I am glad to read here that you got her going. This shows all the talent on this board. |
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Patrick
Member
Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2013, 05:30:06 AM » |
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Good. Glad its running.
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MarcusS
Member
Posts: 311
New To Me August 2013
North Houston
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« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2013, 05:34:37 AM » |
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I had a 71 C10 L6 back in the early 80's that was my pet. First thing I did was drop in an HEI from a 1979 L6. Picked up the core from a yard then went to Hi-Lo for the top. I also change out the plugs to match the voltage (1979 spec) It was easy plug and play and gave the engine about 30% more rev from 4-5K rpm.
I did not stop there. Put in a clifford research 6=8 intake and exaust. allowed installation of 396 CFM Holly 4 BBL and Dual exhaust. The new 6 banger would pull anything. Had 410 rear so speed was a joke. Thruck had about 60K miles on it when sold in 86 for a new daily driver.
Make a note on the pertronix point replacements. I have had them get cooked when someone left the ignition on. They can heat up if left on when not running. They work great and eliminate the need for dwell testing. Just be sure to use feeler guage when installing the the module.
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Life goes on whether you are in it for the ride or not.
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Blackduck
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« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2013, 07:29:20 AM » |
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Good one, always like a success story
Cheers Steve
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2001 Standard, 78 Goldwing, VRCC 21411
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Tx Bohemian
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« Reply #61 on: January 14, 2013, 06:10:32 AM » |
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i dropped the new HEI dist in, eyeballed the timing, ran a hot to the battery for temporary power, hit the starter and .... VROOM!
It fired right up and idled. This HEI dist, is this a GM original like in the late 70s/ early 80s (the real big ones)? Or is it an aftermarket one? I do remember back in the day there were a lot of "retro fit kits" that you could put in the existing distributor housings. I had one and the darn thing left me on the side of the road one too many times!! Went back to the old point system on that car. We're talking early to mid 70s. They gave me the wrong wires so I'll have to run those back too, they are at least a foot too long. I told the guy they were wrong he assured me they were right, not.
Boy I could tell stories about this... I don't have a lot of faith in parts people even/especially like in Autozone, orielys, etc... As an old auto mechanic in a dealer I can tell you there were daily battles/arguments between mechs and parts people! We're talking pre-computers era. The parts persons favorite saying when they brought the wrong part to the counter was "well that's what it says in the book..."!!! Computers have made it better but still... |
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Remember, if you are on a bike and wreck with a car no matter how "in the right" you are you are going to lose. RIDE LIKE EVERBODY IS OUT TO GET YOU!!
Al
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Jeff K
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« Reply #62 on: January 14, 2013, 08:32:53 AM » |
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I went to get some terminal ends, I figured I'd just replace the coil ends on the new wires they had already bought, save them some money. I went to 3 different parts stores. "Make model and year of the vehicle?" NO ONE had just the terminals. None of them could even look them up. I'll go to NAPA today, I know they still have them. You should have seen the show when I went to get a cap and rotor. "Front or back?" Not brakes, Ignition, "is it called something else?"  Just give me the rear rotors for a 1969 C10... |
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Patrick
Member
Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #63 on: January 14, 2013, 09:07:46 AM » |
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Parts men aren't what they used to be, are they ?
Its getting that most don't know anything about distributors let alone points/condensors.
I'll assume the 'ends' you mean are for the 12v primary wires. You should be able to find them almost anywhere including any electrical supply store like radio Shack. Of course, the auto store should have them too, if anyone behind the desk knew anything. If you meant the secondary wire ends, well, the auto store should certainly have them too.
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Jeff K
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« Reply #64 on: January 14, 2013, 09:14:13 AM » |
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Parts men aren't what they used to be, are they ?
Its getting that most don't know anything about distributors let alone points/condensors.
I'll assume the 'ends' you mean are for the 12v primary wires. You should be able to find them almost anywhere including any electrical supply store like radio Shack. Of course, the auto store should have them too, if anyone behind the desk knew anything. If you meant the secondary wire ends, well, the auto store should certainly have them too.
No, I asked for 90 degree spark plug terminal ends and boots. They closest they could come was a Morroso universal wire kit. I wasn't paying $50 for 6 terminals. |
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Patrick
Member
Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #65 on: January 14, 2013, 11:08:23 AM » |
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I'm with you, I wouldn't buy them either.
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Joevalk
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« Reply #66 on: January 14, 2013, 03:32:06 PM » |
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Damn I'm Good |
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john
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« Reply #67 on: January 14, 2013, 03:51:24 PM » |
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vrcc # 19002
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Jeff K
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« Reply #68 on: January 15, 2013, 06:42:49 PM » |
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On to phase two.
He put the "new" carb on. it has an electric choke. it doesn't seem to work. It has 12v to it but never opens.
Got any base lines for adjustments?
The idle mixture screw was about 3 turns out, I cranked it in to 1/2 turn and it idles pretty good.
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Joevalk
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« Reply #69 on: January 15, 2013, 08:55:15 PM » |
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when it's cold loosen up the screws and turn the base where the choke barely seats in the closed position .
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Patrick
Member
Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2013, 07:27:30 AM » |
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I'm assuming this monster has a 1bbl Rochester carburetor with an aftermarket choke. Does the choke have 1 or 2 wires ? It needs to be grounded correctly. The choke needs a switched solid 12v that doesn't come from the coil. When outside air temp is around 60-80F range, set the choke so the plate just closes. Once set and the heat coil is working, the unloader and pull-off [if equipped] may need further adjustment.
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TJ
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« Reply #72 on: January 16, 2013, 09:19:24 AM » |
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Don't need no stinking choke in Fl. unless you want problems... lol
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Patrick
Member
Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #73 on: January 16, 2013, 10:09:32 AM » |
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It sure looks like there are 2 wires to the choke, but, can't tell where the feed comes from. It appears it may be coming from the distributor which could be why it isn't working. The heat coil needs switched 12v. Its easily removed to see if its trying to work. There have been times when the linkage has gotten 'sticky' and needs freeing or adjusting. If that choke doesn't want to work, its easy and cheap to add a cable and make it manual. Its been awhile, but, it looks as though the heater riser valve [exhaust manifold] is closed. If it doesn't move freely, they tend to freeze closed, then try to get it open and leave it there.
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Jeff K
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« Reply #75 on: January 16, 2013, 10:12:05 AM » |
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One wire to the choke and it goes through the firewall, and the riser is gone. Laying in the back of the truck.
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Patrick
Member
Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #76 on: January 16, 2013, 10:21:47 AM » |
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Oh, OK, the pics confused me I guess[which is easy to do], looked like 2 wires. The riser plate is in the back? Thats a good place for it.
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Jeff K
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« Reply #77 on: January 16, 2013, 11:30:54 AM » |
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The plate is there, the tube is gone
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Patrick
Member
Posts: 15433
VRCC 4474
Largo Florida
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« Reply #78 on: January 16, 2013, 02:58:01 PM » |
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Oh, the plate is what I meant. They tend to freeze shut which is not a good thing.
Between the bushings wearing out, the shaft rattling or freezing shut, the tube rusting away or the head and manifold plugging up on V8s they were a real PITA to fix. Way up here in the north country chokes had to work so a lot of cables were installed since it was cheaper.
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