Rear Wheel Bearings

[pancho]

So I remove the tape off the bearings of my now cleaned up Pinwall wheel with the like new, 10 year old Avon Venom tire, I bought to replace the one that was run without the thrust washer on my bike.



 Get around to checking the bearings, and they won't turn! Put the axle in with a couple of spacers and lock it down and still can't turn them!! OK, new bearings,, remove the bearings from the wheel and smell the aroma of the ocean,,, they did claim that the bike had been in a flood.



Well I have read about putting two of the double row bearings in the rear and cutting down the spacer, and am wondering how that has worked out for anyone who has done it?? Are there any problems running without a dust seal...any other issues turn up??

[Chrisj CMA]

I sure hope you arent planning on shortening the spacer in the picture!

[MP]

A number of us have done it with good success.  Yeah, cut down the short outside spacer! The bearing has its own dust seal on it.

MP

[pancho]

I sure hope you arent planning on shortening the spacer in the picture!

Wrong one Chrisj... just showing what was inside the wheel.... If I cut that one, I think the wheel would crack when I torqued the axle. Anyone have the NSK numbers handy for those bearings??

[Denny47]

Go to the shoptalk articles, in yellow above, the double roller is a 5204

[sandy]

Back in '05 I replaced both rear bearings with Timkens from a local bearing supply. Now I have 134K on the bike and they're still good. My guess is that Honda uses a cheaper bearing and the Timpkens are an upgrade. OH and get the specs on the dust seal and replace that too. You're inner wheel spacer can be sanded and cleaned up. Put a light coat of waterproof grease on it (axle too) to seal it up from future moisture.

[Denny47]

Sandy, he will not need and cannot use the seal if he does the double bearing mod

[Chrisj CMA]

I sure hope you arent planning on shortening the spacer in the picture!

Wrong one Chrisj... just showing what was inside the wheel.... If I cut that one, I think the wheel would crack when I torqued the axle. Anyone have the NSK numbers handy for those bearings??

good answer, just checking 

[F6MoRider]

Sandy, he will not need and cannot use the seal if he does the double bearing mod

What about the Nilos ring?  http://mdmetric.com/prod/nilos/nilos3.htm  Ping Grumpy here on the VRCC if you want to discuss the bearing mod.  You can get the same info if you search.   He'll machine your spacer to either size, with or w/o the seal, or provide you with a new one if you decide you want to do the modification and or use the nylos ring to seal the bearing.  I plan to do mine and will be picking up the nylos ring and appropriately sized spacer next weekend.

Lots of good discussion here on the VRCC on that topic. .

[pancho]

Back in '05 I replaced both rear bearings with Timkens from a local bearing supply. Now I have 134K on the bike and they're still good. My guess is that Honda uses a cheaper bearing and the Timpkens are an upgrade. OH and get the specs on the dust seal and replace that too. You're inner wheel spacer can be sanded and cleaned up. Put a light coat of waterproof grease on it (axle too) to seal it up from future moisture.

Sandy, when you did the Timkens, did you do the 6204 and the 5204 and still get that mileage? I really like the idea of having the dust seal in there, but really want some longevity to the bearing replacement,, and even though the 2Z shielld is metal, it is not a perfect seal to the outside and that concernes me...... I already have a new seal if I go that route,,, but I like the idea if the double roller too. Im just looking to see what you guys have to say about it,,,,   always a pleasant mixture.

[sandy]

Back in '05 I replaced both rear bearings with Timkens from a local bearing supply. Now I have 134K on the bike and they're still good. My guess is that Honda uses a cheaper bearing and the Timpkens are an upgrade. OH and get the specs on the dust seal and replace that too. You're inner wheel spacer can be sanded and cleaned up. Put a light coat of waterproof grease on it (axle too) to seal it up from future moisture.

Yes the numbers are the same. My point was that you don't have to change the original setup if you use an upgraded bearing. BTW, I never changed the seal. It's still the original.

Sandy, when you did the Timkens, did you do the 6204 and the 5204 and still get that mileage? I really like the idea of having the dust seal in there, but really want some longevity to the bearing replacement,, and even though the 2Z shielld is metal, it is not a perfect seal to the outside and that concernes me...... I already have a new seal if I go that route,,, but I like the idea if the double roller too. Im just looking to see what you guys have to say about it,,,,   always a pleasant mixture.

[pancho]

I sure hope you arent planning on shortening the spacer in the picture!

Wrong one Chrisj... just showing what was inside the wheel.... If I cut that one, I think the wheel would crack when I torqued the axle. Anyone have the NSK numbers handy for those bearings??

good answer, just checking 

-----  HA  ------  I appreciate it,,, I'm as likely as anyone to be heading 180 out once in awhile.

[pancho]

I was thinking about using the SKF 5204 2Z bearing with steel enclosures as opposed to the 5204 2RS for left side rear wheel mod. Does anyone know if there are any issues with using these 2Z bearings??

[Grumpy]

I was thinking about using the SKF 5204 2Z bearing with steel enclosures as opposed to the 5204 2RS for left side rear wheel mod. Does anyone know if there are any issues with using these 2Z bearings??

the 5304 2z just has a metal cover to keep out debris, personally I would use the 5204 2rs as is sealed to keep out water etc.

[Rio Wil]

I am not trying to start anything and my post is simply triggered by a comment in this post (and in many others) that allude to OEM parts being somewhat inferior and if you want reasonable service and mileage or safety that you have to "upgrade" to better aftermarket parts. Most of the time this statement is made by someone that has had a early failure (for what ever reason) of some part and comes to the reasonable conclusion that the parts are somehow defective /cheap/inferior. I don't deny there is obviously some reason for the failure, but I submit there are probably far many more bikes out there that don't have the early failures and thus don't have a need to make such a complaint.  But, it leaves the impression with especially new Valk'ers that early failure of things like bearings are very wide spread and one needs to take immediate action to prevent it.

So my story is thus: My Valk has 180K miles, and the first (and only) bearing failure occurred on the front wheel at about 150K miles. I had bought a spare set of wheel bearings from ebay for $24 to have as a spare during an Alaska trip (set included 2 front, and two rear, including the double wide and odds are they are made in China even tho they didn't say so on the package). Matter of fact the package didn't have any markings at all!  So, at 150K I used the two fronts from the ebay purchase and before installing them, used a electric drill to rotate the bearings for about 5 minutes at 2500 rpm to warm up and re-distribute the grease....2500 rpm is about 3-4 times the speed of a bike running at 60-70 mph.  Anyway, that was 30K miles ago and no issues from those cheapie bearings so far.  

The rear bearings are still original at 180K miles so I doubt they are inferior OEM parts. My bike has about 60K miles of hi speed freeway, 100K of back country twisties, 20K of rain riding and 500 miles of pothole studded Alaske gravel roads. The last 125K has been on  205/65/16 car tires (some say c/t's cause rear bearing failures). So 150K on the front bearings and 180K on the rear (and still original bearings) does not to me imply inferior parts.

I suspect that early bearing failure is more due to other factors like high pressure washing, storing the bike in a barn/garage with hi humidity conditions, spraying down the wheels with de-greasers/solvents. Multiple same wheel bearing failures are suspect of improper installation procedures..... I would be interested in the specifics of anyone with bearing failures, I suspect most failures are from either rust intrusion or a lube issue (dried out grease)?

Below is a pict of my front wheel bearing failure, it appears the galling is located slightly off center, suggesting the balls are not exactly centered in the races....perhaps due to not having the races fully seated or the inside space is slightly off dimension.  



Taking a break along the Yukon River





Another day, a cleaner bike....







 

[pancho]

Good information Rio,,, one more mark in the camp to stay with the stock setup and retain the dust seal.


What did you cut the bearing outer race with????     clean cut

[Rio Wil]

Just a air powered die grinder with a fiber cutoff wheel.....very useful device for destruction of stubborn objects...

[alph]

i've installed bearings at work on machines that run 24/7/365, i've seen some bearings that have yet to be changed on the 8 year old machine, and i've seen bearings fail within a week of being replaced!!  the number one thing that distroys bearings is improperly installing them, and heat.  also, the quality of the manufacture is mixxed in there too!  the most important thing i can tell anyone is this; if you're putting bearings on a shaft, push on the part that slides on the shaft, if it's going in a wheel (our case) push on the outer bearing chase that slides on the wheel, NEVER EVER POUND ON THE INNER BEARING RING IF IT IS GOING IN YOUR WHEEL!!  your bearing life will be greatly affected.  the best method of putting bearings on a wheel was posted here last year, they put their wheel in the hot summer sun, and the bearings in the freezer, then when the wheel was nice and hot they took the bearings out and simply dropped them in the wheel!!  then they later remembered they forgot the inner spacer between the bearings!!

good luck,

[badf6]

hey poncho......  How did you go about cleaning and polishing your wheel looks pretty good to me and how long did that take???

[pancho]

i've installed bearings at work on machines that run 24/7/365, i've seen some bearings that have yet to be changed on the 8 year old machine, and i've seen bearings fail within a week of being replaced!!  the number one thing that distroys bearings is improperly installing them, and heat.  also, the quality of the manufacture is mixxed in there too!  the most important thing i can tell anyone is this; if you're putting bearings on a shaft, push on the part that slides on the shaft, if it's going in a wheel (our case) push on the outer bearing chase that slides on the wheel, NEVER EVER POUND ON THE INNER BEARING RING IF IT IS GOING IN YOUR WHEEL!!  your bearing life will be greatly affected.  the best method of putting bearings on a wheel was posted here last year, they put their wheel in the hot summer sun, and the bearings in the freezer, then when the wheel was nice and hot they took the bearings out and simply dropped them in the wheel!!  then they later remembered they forgot the inner spacer between the bearings!!

good luck,

Good information alph,,, its bearing 101, still,, we need to remember that a lot of people dont know it or think it through.

badf6,,, I wet sanded the wheel with 320, then 600,, I dont think most wheels would require the 320,,  then a 6" buffing wheel on an angle grinder with brown then white compound.... I always break up those kind of jobs up with other diversions, but I would think two of three hours on each wheel and they are not really "done"... Always a full face shield when using an angle grinder with an open wheel, and it is a nasty job.... everything including yourself will be grey like grease paint from the compound and aluminum,,, cover yourself completely and do it outside if you want to minimize the cleanup.

[pancho]

I saw a package with a six inch sewn buffing wheel and a four ounce?? piece of both brown and white white compound at Harbor Freight for six or eight dollars.

[pancho]

I do feel that I should point out that polishing on an open wheel can be extremely dangerous, and should be approached with caution. I did a greenstick fracture on the metacarpel bone in my left thumb last weekend when a spotlamp rim I was applying to the wheel wrongly got me!!!  It is still swollen up like a sausage!!



That said, here are the tools I use for polishing,, a wheel on a 1/2 hp grinder for small handheld stuff, a wheel on a 7" craftman grinder mounted to a board for larger handheld stuff, or off the board with a handle for free work (very powerful) ,, and a 4" angle grinder for free work.



The word is CAUTION  if you use this method,, high speed open handtools can maim!! I suggest not using a tool more powerful than the job requires.

[badf6]

Trying to talk myself into doing that.   Did you wet sand first,,, and how many hours did it take??? Thanks for the info

[Grumpy]

I do feel that I should point out that polishing on an open wheel can be extremely dangerous, and should be approached with caution. I did a greenstick fracture on the metacarpel bone in my left thumb last weekend when a spotlamp rim I was applying to the wheel wrongly got me!!!  It is still swollen up like a sausage!!



That said, here are the tools I use for polishing,, a wheel on a 1/2 hp grinder for small handheld stuff, a wheel on a 7" craftman grinder mounted to a board for larger handheld stuff, or off the board with a handle for free work (very powerful) ,, and a 4" angle grinder for free work.



The word is CAUTION  if you use this method,, high speed open handtools can maim!! I suggest not using a tool more powerful than the job requires.

I do a lot of polishing, tips etc, a good safety thing is a heavy pair of leather gloves, they have saved my fingers many times. I have a 2 horse buffer spinning 12 inch wheels, if it grabs it can sling stuff a long ways.

[pancho]

Yeah Grumpy,,, the leather gloves will definitely part of my safety equipment when polishing larger items,, the gloves I had on were only enough to keep me clean,, no protection.  I might remember that lesson!