The longest tire change...

[hubcapsc]

I ordered a new rear Avon from HDL back on April 21st... It still wasn't here
yesterday when I took the rear wheel off the Valkyrie. I called them up, and they
said they had too many Avons on hand, and sent them all back  and
my order had fallen through the cracks. He said he'd get me one in the mail
today, but I still don't see one of those ship notices...

I found my pinion cup all rusty again...







Seems like the cup was getting chewed up faster than the drive shaft.

The flange and final look OK, there's a tiny bit of wear, but some wear
was evident last time...



This stuff would keep me rolling down the road no problem, but
it is my plan to put a final drive I refurbished on to see if I... refurbished
it right  ... and I don't want to mate its perfect pinion cup
to the somewhat worn drive shaft.

I ordered a new drive shaft and seal from the Toccoa Honda shop where
they let me ride the F6B yesterday, they called me today and said the
parts were here!

Perhaps I'll call HDL tomorrow, and if the tire isn't on its way, I'll cancel that
and get the local shop to get me one... they were somewhat more on the parts,
around $130 for the driveshaft, instead of $100... I'd hate to pay retail (~ $300)
for an Avon...

I may give that waterproof blue belray grease a try in the pinion cup this time...
maybe even in the final/flange...

-Mike

[..]

I think a looooooong time ago Daniel Meyer wrote that it was vitally important to make sure the rubber boot is secure ALL the way around. I believe he stressed to check it 3 or 4 times to ensure a good seal.

I wonder if some of the boots are starting to perish due to old age???

I'm sure some one will know if I'm blathering or correct.

#8 on this exploded view

http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/1/Make/Honda/YearID/41/Year/2000/ModelID/6800/Model/GL1500CF/GroupID/289783/Group/SWINGARM

[hubcapsc]

I think a looooooong time ago Daniel Meyer wrote that it was vitally important to make sure the rubber boot is secure ALL the way around. I believe he stressed to check it 3 or 4 times to ensure a good seal.

I wonder if some of the boots are starting to perish due to old age???

I changed out the boot a couple of years ago, but I've only checked it 2 times  ...

Everything is clean and nice inside the swingarm...

-Mike

[sandy]

I use Bel Ray on the wheel splines but on both ends of the drive shaft I use Valvoline Durablend. It's a 3% moly waterproof wheel bearing grease. Mother Honda wants a little moly in the pinion cup. In 134K I've never found any rust in the wheel or shaft splines.
Splines at 112K.

[jmann]

I've been using the Bel Ray for 45K on everything in the final drive except the end of the driveshaft that goes in the u joint and all is still looking good. I feel the most important aspect of the deal is the correct tightening sequence but that rust has nothing to do with how it was tightened. That looks nasty.   

[BF]

I use Bel Ray on the wheel splines but on both ends of the drive shaft I use Valvoline Durablend. It's a 3% moly waterproof wheel bearing grease. Mother Honda wants a little moly in the pinion cup. In 134K I've never found any rust in the wheel or shaft splines.
Splines at 112K.

This?.......

http://www.valvoline.com/products/brands/durablend/grease/67

[hubcapsc]

I use Bel Ray on the wheel splines but on both ends of the drive shaft I use Valvoline Durablend. It's a 3% moly waterproof wheel bearing grease. Mother Honda wants a little moly in the pinion cup. In 134K I've never found any rust in the wheel or shaft splines.

I use Valvoline 3% moly grease in the pinion cup, approximately (I never weighed it out) the
amount called for in the manual.

Two tires ago the shaft came out looking like this:



The last tire it came out looking like this:



This time it was like death valley in there...

-Mike

[BF]

The boots are only a few bucks. 

I think I read a thread on the tech board earlier today where someone said that since putting the boot back on is such a pita, they put a new one back on everytime because the new ones go on easier (plus they're new). 

Wondering too if the boots are causing these red rust problems.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

That seal on the driveshaft does it just knock-off and the new one pushes back on ? I changed my driveshaft last week because that seal on mine was boogered up and I had another shaft ready to go. I was'nt crazy about mixing parts but I did'nt want to take a chance of removing the good seal and not be able to get it on the original shaft ( next time I order parts I'm getting a new one ) .How many miles was on the last maintence of pinion cup ? I've been useing Green Grease / Honda Moly mix the last couple years and the shaft and pinion cup has had a nice coat of grease when removed for maintence.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_x_7070077-P_x_x?cm_mmc=ACQ-_-Google-_-enhancedRM-_-7070077&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=7070077&ci_gpa=pla&ci_kw=&gclid=CIiawoHZ-bYCFYHc4AodsDAA5Q#utm_source=acq&utm_medium=google&utm_campaign=enhancedrm&utm_content=7070077

[hubcapsc]

How many miles was on the last maintence of pinion cup ?

~6,000 miles... but I haven't been in there in almost a year, I changed
my tire before we went to InZane last July, I guess I didn't ride
much over the winter...

-Mike

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

How many miles was on the last maintence of pinion cup ?

~6,000 miles... but I haven't been in there in almost a year, I changed
my tire before we went to InZane last July, I guess I didn't ride
much over the winter...

-Mike

What about that driveshaft seal does it just push off and the new one back on ?

This is my new rear tire.

[hubcapsc]

What about that driveshaft seal does it just push off and the new one back on ?

Yes, it just pulls off and the new one pushes back on. I lubed a new one I put on once,
and the next time I put on a tire, the seal was out of the cup and just uselessly
hanging on the shaft...  I don't think I'll lube this new one...

That's a mean looking tire, have you ridden with it yet?

-Mike

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

What about that driveshaft seal does it just push off and the new one back on ?

Yes, it just pulls off and the new one pushes back on. I lubed a new one I put on once,
and the next time I put on a tire, the seal was out of the cup and just uselessly
hanging on the shaft...  I don't think I'll lube this new one...

That's a mean looking tire, have you ridden with it yet?

-Mike

Got about 4 miles on it last friday before the rain hit... Working on the road I did'nt get to ride any. They claim rain starting this weekend as well    My yard needs mowed bad so today I'll be doing circles on the Craftsman ( I hate mowing the grass ) . Guess I'll break it in on The Blue Ridge Parkway next weekend if its not raining.

[MITCHO]

Hey Mike,
I just picked up some MolyKote BR2 Plus which is what Honda specifies to use in their manual.  I had to track it down and ended up going through an industrial equipment supplier to find it.  Since it was such an ordeal to find I picked up 2 tubes, if you would like one, just pm me and I can get it shipped out to you.
Just my opinion but in looking at pictures I'd say that it's either a grease or lower seal issue, if it was the boot the whole shaft and u-joint would have some rust as well.  It looks like the grease can't handle the heat/pressure and breaks down.  I'm not a doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. 
Be safe,
Mitch

[Valkahuna]

With it being that rusted on the inside, I'd suspect that the little weep holes that Honda put into the cup were blocked, or at least gear lube was not getting back in there. How's the level of lube in your final drive?

From what I've read, and been told repeatedly by our own Mr. Dan, it is vital for the hole to be open. Any lube you put into the cup/splines is really more of an assembly aid, and the real lubrication is Oil from the drive.

I know that there are those on this board that disagree, but hey, the hole is back there for a reason.

[hubcapsc]

Hey Mike,
I just picked up some MolyKote BR2 Plus which is what Honda specifies to use in their manual.  I had to track it down and ended up going through an industrial equipment supplier to find it.  Since it was such an ordeal to find I picked up 2 tubes, if you would like one, just pm me and I can get it shipped out to you.
Just my opinion but in looking at pictures I'd say that it's either a grease or lower seal issue, if it was the boot the whole shaft and u-joint would have some rust as well.  It looks like the grease can't handle the heat/pressure and breaks down.  I'm not a doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. 
Be safe,
Mitch

Thanks for the offer Mitch... that's pretty tenacious of you, tracking that stuff down 

In the manual, where they talk about MOLYKOTE as an example, they also say

    Use molybdenum disulfide grease (containing more than 3% molybdenum
    disulfide, NLGI #2 or equivalent...

That Valvoline moly grease some of us are using has 3% moly, and has NLGI #2 stamped on the label...

The manual sez to put 2 grams of this grease onto the pinion joint splines and replace the
oil seal every time... perhaps, if we're going to count on final drive fluid lubricating the
pinion joint, we should change the seal every time. You can see in my pictures that stuff
does get past the seal... in the "good" picture, there's good clean oil between the seal
lips, in the "mediocre" picture there's some kind-of-skanky-looking oil between the
seal lips... I wish I had a better picture of the seal lips from this last time... it is all
cleaned up now...

I want to try putting (probably more than 2 grams) of blue belray in there... I bet it would
still be in there at the next tire change, though, without moly, there might still be wear.
Molybdenum doesn't lubricate in a slippery slidey kind of way, it is a solid buffer for
metal parts that smash against one another.

I'm starting to get really interested in weighing some moly-grease and seeing how
much 2 grams of grease really is.

Anywho... thanks again for the offer...

-Mike

[hubcapsc]

With it being that rusted on the inside, I'd suspect that the little weep holes that Honda put into the cup were blocked, or at least gear lube was not getting back in there. How's the level of lube in your final drive?

From what I've read, and been told repeatedly by our own Mr. Dan, it is vital for the hole to be open. Any lube you put into the cup/splines is really more of an assembly aid, and the real lubrication is Oil from the drive.

I know that there are those on this board that disagree, but hey, the hole is back there for a reason.

I always attempt to ensure that the holes are clear, and even hold the final drive so that
some fluid flows out of the holes before I put it back on. Since I didn't want to poke
red-dust back into my final drive, this time I took the pinion cup off to clean the holes.
It could be that removing the pinion cup to clean it, so that you can be certain
the holes are perfectly unobstructed, especially that funny two-way hole, is the
way to go. When I had the nasty rusty looking one in my hand, and poked a WD40
straw through both holes and sprayed, I could still hold the pinion cup up to
the light see there was still "stuff" up in there. I had to keep at it...

I made a pinion cup jig so that it would be easy to take pinion cups off and torque them back
to 80ft/lbs when putting them back on, so with the final drive off the bike, it is easy to
get the pinion cup on and off...



I believe what Daniel Meyer says about the holes and the lubrication, but I
don't seem to be able to make it work every time...

-Mike

[Farther]

This thread should be moved to the Tech Board.

[3fan4life]

I use this grease:




Everything is always still well lubed when I do a tire change.


On a side note I try to purchase my tires locally.

It helps that I have a local guy that is always close to the best online price that I can find.


I ordered my last set of tires from Motorcycle Superstore (local guy couldn't get the ones I wanted)and that will also be the last time that I order anything from them.

Their prices are good, but if you have a problem their customer service is so bad that saying it sucks, makes it sound TOO good.

[hubcapsc]

It helps that I have a local guy that is always close to the best online price that I can find.

I asked about the tire when I went to pick up my driveshaft... they would have had to
charge me $240... my HDL tire is "on the way" finally, for $19something, I used that
spring13 code Joe told us about... I bought a tub of  blue waterproof Belray grease at
the local Suzuki shop just now...

-Mike

[3fan4life]

It helps that I have a local guy that is always close to the best online price that I can find.

I asked about the tire when I went to pick up my driveshaft... they would have had to
charge me $240... my HDL tire is "on the way" finally, for $19something, I used that
spring13 code Joe told us about... I bought a tub of  blue waterproof Belray grease at
the local Suzuki shop just now...

-Mike

My local guy runs a small shop.

He beats the local "stealer" by a bunch and the other small shops by some as well.

Ask around you may have someone running a small shop locally that can get good prices on tires.



   

[hubcapsc]

I got a new spring, clip and washer the only other time I got a new
drive shaft... I figured my snap ring pliers would pop out this snap
ring easy, so I just got a new shaft and seal.

Well...

Maybe someone with the strength of the Hulk and the dexterity
of a watchmaker could do it (maybe you could do it  ), but I
found there was no way I was going to be able to compress the
spring with my hand and engage the pliers, so out come the
nails and boards and drills...



-Mike

[pancho]

You pretty good at rigging things with those boards Mike!!   HA   
 Here is a picture of exactly two grams of grease,, the prospective is not the best, but you can see it is quite a little mountain,, enough to lubricate a joint.  Also a few weeks ago I researched the Valvoline moly "fortified" grease, and although it is NLGI #2, I believe I found it to be less than 1 per cent Moly,, you may want to recheck that.. I used a moly grease and mixed some 60% moly paste with it,, just a thought.  This is a trip your cup is getting in that kind of shape in such a short time, so many times...

some piece of the puzzle is not visible

[Stanley Steamer]

I just ordered an Avon rear tire from Amazon and it's supposed to be in stock and here by 8pm Wednesday night.......the only thing is, Cycle World here in Athens doesn't have the Ride-on tire sealant anymore and the places on Amazon say 3-4 business days....not sure it'd be here before next Saturday, so I need to try to find some somewhere else here in North Georgia.....it looks like it averages $15/ 8oz bottle??.....hmmm.....seems their website recommends 10oz for a Valk rear tire.....and 9oz's for the front tire size.....guess I have to find 2 bottles at least......don't remember if I had put any in the front tire.....guess I need to log it in on my maintenance logs if I do from now on......

[hubcapsc]

the only thing is, Cycle World here in Athens doesn't have the Ride-on tire sealant anymore and the places on Amazon say 3-4 business days....

No guarantees, but I got my RideOn from these Amazon guys, they got it here in just a couple of days...

http://www.amazon.com/Ride-On-Tire-Balancer-Sealant-41208/dp/B0016680T0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367714178&sr=8-1&keywords=ride+on+sealant

We could just balance your tire if it doesn't come, and you could put RideOn in anytime...

-Mike

[Stanley Steamer]

I saw their link.....from somewhere in SC......it sucks that the dosage chart shows 11oz for a rear tire.....

I could go ahead and order it and put it in later like you said if need be.......

[pancho]

Here is the picture of 2 grams of grease.

[hubcapsc]

some piece of the puzzle is not visible...

Here is the picture of 2 grams of grease...

It is hard to say how much I used. Not much... there's not much in that picture...
maybe I've not been using enough sometimes...

If I was to try to do it "by the book" again, I'd weigh the grease...

-Mike

[pancho]

I don't know,, you wonder what changed between one tire change ago, and this time.. Two tires ago, it looks like some final drive oil had gotten up in there, no problems. One tire change ago it looks like grease in there,, maybe not enough but still not dead. This time dry death...  was it the same kind/amount of grease last time?? you wonder what changed?? where did the grease go in 6K?

[hubcapsc]

Well dang... I don't remember exactly what day I put the Valkyrie up on the jack to change
out the front tire, it's been about a month. It sat there for several weeks waiting for a tire
to come from HDL. Then I decided to get a new pinion cup to mate to my new drive shaft,
the used one I had wasn't as perfect as I thought, yahoo for 10 megapixels 



I finally bolted up the rear wheel last thursday... it didn't spin freely. I was bummed, and
knew I wouldn't be able to take it back apart until the weekend (yesterday). I was
trying to think of what I could have done wrong on such a simple job, it seemed
like it had to be something wrong with the final drive I refurbished. I talked about
it to Grumpy and he asked me if I'd forgotten to put in the collar that the axle
goes through YES! I did forget to put it in, it was still down at the house with the
rest of the refurbished finals...

Got her all bolted back together again with the collar on Saturday, filled up the final drive,
pulled her down from the jack and tightened the pinch bolts on the right fork, and
put ride on in both wheels. After almost a month on the jack the Valkyrie was covered in
pollen, and spider webs, and apparently birds like to to roost in the rafters of the pole
barn  - started right up with one push of the button!

I took off, and stopped a few miles down the road to check things, final drive cool to the touch.
Fifteen or so more miles... checked... final drive kind of warm and - leaking! Dang... I figured
it was leaking from the seal, even though I'd replaced it... turned back towards home, got back,
about 25 miles total. Took everything off again, and the seal on the final looked good, no
evidence of leaking there, or anywhere really, even after I took the dust guard off and
checked the entire perimeter where the cases bolt together. Since its not magic, I guess
the leak has to be at the lowest point where the cases bolt together since that's where the
oil was.



I drained the oil from the drive, and it was black, even though it only had 25 miles on it...
I'll put the pinion cup on the good final and get everything back together today I hope,
it is raining... gotta go on a few test rides before I take off to Corbin in just 5 days... I'll
separate the cases on the troubled final and see if I can figure out the deal, but no time
for that right now...

-Mike

[Stanley Steamer]

I changed out my final drive oil after getting the shocks back on and everything tightened up.......took it for a 20 mile shakedown ride......seems to be all in order.......now I just have to see how this whole dental root canal procedure goes next week and if I have to be on any pain meds or anything?.......I hope not......

[hubcapsc]

Put the new pinion cup on the final drive that's been on my bike for several years today, and
put everything  back together.

I stopped at similar intervals to yesterday, I wanted to compare how much it heated up to
yesterday's final drive. It was about the same. What's more, there was a little dab of oil
in the same place as yesterday.

I know this one doesn't leak... both today and yesterday I had just filled the final drive
right before I took off. I have a tube on my final drive oil bottle, and I put fluid in until
it starts coming out of the fill hole. Then I wipe the little bit off and screw in the cap.

Have any of you ever touched/felt-of your final drive 10 miles down the road right after
you filled the final? The filler cap is kind of dished-out/hollow on the back, there's an O-ring,
and there's a groove in the final drive where I think the oil I'm noticing collects right as
I put the cap back on. I think this oil flows down from the fill hole and can be seen on the bottom of
the final drive if you check right away before it is gone. I'll check the final for oil tomorrow and
the next day, and I bet there won't be any.

What's more... I'm thinking the blackened oil I drained out yesterday that only had 25 miles on it
was mixed with the dreggs of whatever oil was in there in 2007 when I took that final drive off
my bike. I wiped down stuff when I was in there, but the NAPA man cleaned one of the bearings
he pressed back on for me in parts cleaner, and it was clear from the way that bearing felt that
there was plenty of old final drive oil collected in nooks and crannies of the old final drive.

I guess I won't really know for sure anytime soon, though, the bike felt fine today, and I expect it
is fine... Corbin's this weekend and I'm done taking the wheel on and off for this month 

-Mike

[Stanley Steamer]

"I know this one doesn't leak... both today and yesterday I had just filled the final drive
right before I took off. I have a tube on my final drive oil bottle, and I put fluid in until
it starts coming out of the fill hole. Then I wipe the little bit off and screw in the cap.

Have any of you ever touched/felt-of your final drive 10 miles down the road right after
you filled the final? The filler cap is kind of dished-out/hollow on the back, there's an O-ring,
and there's a groove in the final drive where I think the oil I'm noticing collects right as
I put the cap back on. I think this oil flows down from the fill hole and can be seen on the bottom of
the final drive if you check right away before it is gone. I'll check the final for oil tomorrow and
the next day, and I bet there won't be any."


I also had just a small drip of final drive oil on my pumpkin when I got back from my shakedown ride....I just filled mine up until it ran out the top.....I'll check it again on the next ride......I did notice my "old" oil looked pretty clean to me.....

[hubcapsc]

I also had just a small drip of final drive oil on my pumpkin when I got back from my shakedown ride...

Cool 

-Mike