Loud Ticking/ Knocking & lousy gas mileage - What's up?

[Denny47]

Ya know, you ask for help, but then you don't follow it. The Valk takes 4 qts. maximum even with the filter. Actually 3.9 qts with the filter change.

[kyllini]

Ok - got it 3.9 quarts with filter change - And I really do appreciate all the help and suggestions. Just getting a little frustrated.
Lots of sound advice from many of you and I intend to go down the list and try all until the problem is located and it's fixed.
I know that this is inherently a sound designed motorcycle and the engine is considered (by most) as one of the best motorcycle engines ever. So I'll hang in there and try to get this right.
I do hope it's the exhaust leak and not something internal to the engine.
And I have plenty of Techron left.
I'll try to take picture of the soot (had it wiped down when it first appeared) and post it.

[kyllini]

Quick Update: Bike sat about 10 days while I was on vacation.
Today I changed the oil and oil filter (by the book).
Installed exhaust gaskets (the flat ones) - but never did find the previous ones (guess none were installed by previous owner).
Tightened all bolts and also went over the De-smog bolts (below the exhaust pipes).
Filled tank with 93 Octane & added some additional Techron.
Ran bike for about 50 miles under 2K and bike seems to have cleared it's throat because it runs strong (both low and high).
It also doesn't backfire any longer.
Now for the bad news - the ticking is still there and still loud enough to be annoying.
I can hear it at idle and it's probably still there throughout the rev. range - just can't hear it above idle because of exhaust noise.
When biked cools - I'll go back out and tighten things up again - but don't think it's the exhaust bolts.
I guess I'll go over all the vacuum plugs to see if they're leaking but after that I'm not really sure.
When I listened closely and tried to isolate the location of the knock it did seem to be coming from the right side of the bike and more so from behind the timing belt cover - but not sure.
Still scratching my head though on this one and hate to keep messing with the bike but would sure like to fix this thing.
This ticking is starting to get under my skin.

[bikerboy1951]

Are you sure that you plugged the hole for the pipe that fits right behind the timing cover on the right side when you desmogged the bike.  It is not easy to get to and is easiest to fill when the crash bar is removed.

Brad

[kyllini]

Bikerboy1951 - Yup it's plugged.

I'll recheck the torque on it but it's definitely plugged.

[Jess from VA]

Installed exhaust gaskets (the flat ones) - but never did find the previous ones (guess none were installed by previous owner).

Often, the old crush gaskets are crushed and carboned up, stuck up in exhaust ports (and do not drop out when the exhaust is pulled).  More than one has put a new set on top the old.  An icepick gets them out.

[kyllini]

Jess from VA - too late to find / pick out the old ones. New ones are in and it's not backfiring so my guess is they work.
The tick has got to be from somewhere else.
Was thinking maybe I need a valve adjustment, but the bike's only got 6400 miles on it.
Still scratching my head on this one.

[Patrick]

Without being able to hear the noise, its hard to diagnose. Exhaust gasket problems will cause a 'tick'. Leaving gaskets in the ports and installing new gaskets anyway, will cause problems. I think what Bikerboy was referring to is the #1 exhaust port on top of the head for the emission system[ corresponds to #5]. A 'tick'/leak could also come from #3 emission port on the bottom of the head which could be mistaken for a leak in the regular #3 exhaust port gasket.

[kyllini]

Patrick - I believe he is referring to the 1st vacuum plug on top right side of bike.
Will check again tomorrow, but think it's in tight.
Unless there's some gap around the provided washers / bushings that came with the set, I don't see why it would leak.

[6tigo]

Did you cut and remove the tube from the #3 port Patrick mentioned?  It runs up between the back of the timing cover and the right head.  If you did not remove and plug the head your noise is coming from the tube “stub” behind the timing cover

[blastedbugler]

Fuel consumption is directly related to the fuel you use.
In Aussie you can but 91, 95 & 98 octane.
When using 98 octane I get 25% better fuel consumption then the lower grade.
Sometimes in the bush all you can get is 91 octane.
This is especially relevant if you are towing a trailer or in hilly country.
Fuel additives may make this better or worse.
Don ( Aussie )

[kyllini]

6tigo - yes I cut the tube that goes behind the timing cover and made sure all the plugs are tight.

blastedburger - converted the petcock to Golan long stem  - best mileage to date is 85 to reserve (starts running funny).

Last fill up was 93 Octane so will see how far this gets me.

I'm also seriously considering the extra fuel tank.

I do have a heavy wrist - but the current mileage is ridiculous.

[John Schmidt]

Keep this in mind; these boxer style engines with multiple carbs will knock like crazy if the carbs are grossly out of sync. You may want to consider resetting all the pilot jets, then sync the carbs. Just a thought! 

[kyllini]

John Schmidt - the bike ran great just before I did a petcock swap (Golan petcock - inline fuel filter and DanMarc) and the Desmog.
Also just installed new exhaust gaskets and tightened all bolts.
Bike runs strong but still ticking loudly (on right side).
Want to exhaust all other options prior to pulling carbs.

[Hoser]

Ya know it won't hurt to check the valve clearance, It's pretty easy, but make sure you follow the procedure in the shop manual exactly.  If you do not have a shop manual, do not try it.  In fact, I would not work on my bike without a service manual, and I've been working on it for ten years.  Hoser 

[kyllini]

Hoser - I guess if I have to, I will check the valve clearance too.
I have the manual and am looking into how to do this.
Still have to buy the gauge though.
Also looking into how to adjust the timing belt tension. When I use a stethoscope - the closest I can get to the ticking is the timing belt case - right in front of the tensioner.
Not sure about this being the cause, but sounds like a possibility.
Hard to locate the exact location - but also worth a shot.
This ticking is becoming my "white whale"!

[Hoser]

Fuel consumption is directly related to the fuel you use.
In Aussie you can but 91, 95 & 98 octane.
When using 98 octane I get 25% better fuel consumption then the lower grade.
Sometimes in the bush all you can get is 91 octane.
This is especially relevant if you are towing a trailer or in hilly country.
Fuel additives may make this better or worse.
Don ( Aussie )

I don't know how they rate octane down under, but USA models are recommended for 87 or 89 octane by US standards.  Hoser  ???

[Ricky-D]

Yeah, if you are hearing that sound with the front timing cover removed it is more than likely that the noise is a loose valve adjustment.

The timing belt tensioner springs is all the tension that is required for the belts. Any tighter that that and the belt tensioner bearings will be subjected to forces that will cause the bearing to wear out prematurely.

***

[ValkFlyer]

Did the desmog. changed out the petcock and installed Dan Marc solenoid and thought I was done.
Filled up the tank with gas & Techron additive and had it sit for about a week (crappy weather).
Started the bike today and went to a ride.
Got 69 miles on primary tank (without reserve) and i know I have a heavy wrist but that's ridiculous.
I also had a loud ticking/knocking sound out of right side of engine  - wasn't there before.
Sounded like it was behind the oil dipstick area.
Any ideas what's going on?
I'm spending way too much time working on this lady than riding her.

You said the bike ran fine until you performed what you noted above.  Are you certain you've covered all the bases with regard to the DeSmog...do you know if your bike is a Calif model?  If so there are additional steps that must be taken in relation to the DeSmog that will definitely impact the bikes performance.

[kyllini]

Ricky-D - haven't had the timing belt cover off. Just listened with stethoscope and sounded louder in that area. If nothing is adjustable, I may be barking up the wrong tree looking there. As soon as I eliminate all other possibilities, I will probably check/reset valve clearances.

ValkFlyer - I probably don't have a California model (but I'm not 100% positive) - other than the fact the original owner was in Jersey. What other way's are there to tell the difference?

[ValkFlyer]

Ricky-D - haven't had the timing belt cover off. Just listened with stethoscope and sounded louder in that area. If nothing is adjustable, I may be barking up the wrong tree looking there. As soon as I eliminate all other possibilities, I will probably check/reset valve clearances.

ValkFlyer - I probably don't have a California model (but I'm not 100% positive) - other than the fact the original owner was in Jersey. What other way's are there to tell the difference?

Simplest way is to look for the Evap Canister which would be located under the bike next to the kick stand mount.  If you addressed the de-smog you'd have run across the tubing running to it.

[kyllini]

ValkFlyer - nothing down there. Guess it's not a California model.
Will have to go over all my steps and recheck everything.
Too coincidental that the ticking/knocking would start shortly after (though not right after) the Desmog and fuel line modifications.
I'm also pulling off the exhaust again and try to peel off the old gaskets  - then reinstall with the new ones.
Got to resolve this issue (soon) - before it drives me nuts.

[Ricky-D]

Was the stethoscope you used a mechanical type? They are not that good for your problem.

For your particular problem a piece of garden hose works best.

***

[kyllini]

Ricky-D - Yes it was, and I could not pinpoint the problem area.
I'll try it this time with a garden hose and see if i can actually isolate the area.

[Denny47]

You have never told us what your actual miles per gal. is on your bike. You just keep saying so many miles to reserve. If your mpg is 35-40 that is normal and the main inlet pipe of the new petcock is too long. As for the exhaust gaskets, I have a new set that I picked up at the Honda dealer, pn. 18291-MN5-650, they are shaped like a large o-ring and are hard and copper colored.

[kyllini]

Denny47 - I'm still on the same tank (bike's been sitting for about a week). Have over 100 miles on regular tank and haven't gone to reserve yet.
Also never rode it til it runs out so I don't know exactly how much reserve capacity I have.
i do know that the bike is running better and the mileage is much better.
Once the repairs (ticking / knocking) are completed - I will ride it til I run out and determine exactly the MPG.
The exhaust gaskets I installed are the flat ones (sold on Ebay) not the OEM ones.

[Denny47]

You know that figuring your mpg is as simple as a couple of math calculations. When you fill your tank, zero your tripmeter, run the bike for maybe a hundred miles or so and fill it again. Divide the amount of gallons to fill it up into the miles you have on your tripmeter and there is your mpg. The Standard/Tourer tank holds 5.3 gallons. If you run the bike to the reserve, then fill up and do the math.

[kyllini]

Yup - got it. I want to see how many miles to & on reserve from this particular Golan petcock.
Any way you look at it- bike is great but gas mileage is weak point.
Think I'm probably going to make the extra fuel tank my "winter project", which also means that most fuel line modifications I just did, will be going by the wayside because the extra tank has a fuel pump.
My last bike (2011 Kawasaki Concours 14) got about 200 miles per tank and I found that range annoying.
Anyway, for the time being I'm still trying to unravel this annoying ticking issue.

[kyllini]

Quick Update:
Pulled exhaust and took out the new gaskets i had just put in. I also detected the old copper ones (flattened & barely perceptible) and was able to pry them out.
Put new gaskets in along with a set of Cobra 6 into 6 pipes I bought (as extras) with the bike.
Loud as hell, looks good and will probably get me banned from the neighborhood picnics, but what the hell - at least they'll hear me coming (from about 10 miles away).
Unfortunately the ticking / knocking is still there. No difference other than it's harder to hear because of the louder pipes.
Will check again for any vacuum leaks - but all accessory plugs I received with the "shiny kit" were installed tight.
Has anyone had a failure (right off the bat) with the provided rubber vacuum plugs?
If I can't detect a vacuum leak - I'll check the valve clearances.
After that I may just take a shot gun to it and give it a better reason to knock!

[pancho]

"Unfortunately the ticking / knocking is still there"'

Well what do you think,,, is it a tick or a knock????  I keep thinking back to when you poured two quarts of oil in and still couldn't see it on the dipstick.

[pancho]

I mean if you can hear it over a set of Cobras,,,,,,,,

[kyllini]

Pancho - I've already said it's a Loud rhythmic ticking and yes I can still hear it when idling (even with the Cobras).
The oil issue has been corrected and yes i couldn't see the oil level with the chrome dipstick.