Twisted Forks?

[etiwandablues]

Familiar story ... I got hit by at an intersection by a guy making a left turn in front of me. He was turning onto the road I was on and never saw me until he hit me. I swiped by the front of his suv and went down at ~25mph or so. Sore ribs and scrapes for me, scrapes along the right side of my Valk from the pavement. The engine guard and saddle bag took most of the impact. The insurance estimate was ~$4000 for shiny parts and labor. The dealer didn't think there was any damage to the front end but it couldn't be ridden at the time to verify. I took the money, bought my own parts, and put everything back together. Now I find I do have some front end issues.

I've just ridden a couple miles but the bike seems to drive OK, no wobbles or shimmies (at least upto ~60mph or so), but the handlebars and top fork bridge are angled to the right a few degrees when going straight down the road. I taped a couple of 3' wood rods across the front faces of the top bridge and the steering stem, and looking down from above you can see there is a very slight but noticeable twist. I'm wondering if I loosen the fork clamps on the top bridge and stem, if I can move things back to true. I don't want to get any further into the front end than I have to, but I need to get far enough to know if I have more parts to replace so I can go back to the insurance company.

Any suggestions where to start?

I've been lucky in that I'm fully healed up, and the insurance co has been good to work with. FWIW, despite the 95F weather I'm glad I was wearing a full helmet and armored mesh jkt.

[Michvalk]

Yeah, you can do that. Loosen the axle pinch bolts as well. I heard that the best way to check for true, is with a pain of glass laid on the forks, and moving stuff until the glass lays flat on the 4 corners

[pancho]

I would thoroughly check it out,, you want it to be right. Pull the tubes and sliders out and check for straightness,, make sure they slip out of the trees easily after loosening the top tree nut to insure trees are not warped. They will self align once the top one is loose if you follow the manual assembly instructions when reassembling. If the tubes are tweaked, you want to get it taken care of and replace them,, it can happen fairly easily if the front wheel hit hard.

[garyheskett All 49 x 3 st.louis]

Almost the exact same accident and damage in June 2011 for me.  Replaced everything and went to test drive it and I was cocked to the right.  A 30 year motorcycle mechanic tried several things (which I can't remember) to correct that problem. I tried several other things.  To make a long story short, I took off the entire front end, tire and wheel, fork tubes, and since I had everything apart, I put some new grease in the bearing races on the steering stem.  Put it all back together and I eliminated 98% of my "kink" to the right. Beats me how that worked or why, but it sure did.

[gordonv]

It should tell you in the service manual how to re-align the front forks. It did in my Shadow ACE Tourer service manual.

If I remember correctly, you loosen everything but the top clamps of the triple tree (lower TT, the axle pinch bolts). You then roll the bike forwards, and apply the brakes firmly to stop the bike. Then tighten them back up.

[etiwandablues]

I read the service manual, and tried loosening all the pinchbolts and then retorquing but still the same slight angle on the bars to the right. I must have something bent. Next step will be disassembling and checking the tubes and sliders for straightness.

Oh well, at least I got in a couple of test rides. Wow!! I forgot how fast this bike feels without a windshield. My old Hondaline acted like a barn door going down the road. It got crunched in my crash and I'm installing a Woody's fairing to replace it. Hope it doesn't push as much air as the windshield did.

Thanks for the comments & suggestions.

[R J]

I read the service manual, and tried loosening all the pinch bolts and then retorquing but still the same slight angle on the bars to the right. I must have something bent. Next step will be disassembling and checking the tubes and sliders for straightness.

Oh well, at least I got in a couple of test rides. Wow!! I forgot how fast this bike feels without a windshield. My old Hondaline acted like a barn door going down the road. It got crunched in my crash and I'm installing a Woody's fairing to replace it. Hope it doesn't push as much air as the windshield did.

Thanks for the comments & suggestions.

You said:  I read the service manual, and tried loosening all the pinch bolts and then retorquing but still the same slight angle on the bars to the right.
Now my question is, did you roll it forward and grab a great big handful of the front brake?     If you didn't do this, then loosen it back up and try it again.

Did the front wheel have a straight on impact in the accident?     If so, you steering heads bearings are probably dimpled and need to be replaced.

[etiwandablues]

[/quote]

You said:  I read the service manual, and tried loosening all the pinch bolts and then retorquing but still the same slight angle on the bars to the right.
Now my question is, did you roll it forward and grab a great big handful of the front brake?     If you didn't do this, then loosen it back up and try it again.

Did the front wheel have a straight on impact in the accident?     If so, you steering heads bearings are probably dimpled and need to be replaced.[/quote]

Hey RJ I didn't see anything in the factory service manual about rolling and braking to adjust or set the forks. Starting with a disassembled front end on a jack, all it says is push the forks thru the bridges, align the top cap and then tighten the lower bridge pinch bolts first, then the uppers. I loosened all the pinch bolts with the bike on the ground and with a jack just slightly unweighting the front end. I wiggled the bars a bit then re-torqued... no change. I tried a second time, loosening the pinch bolts further, but the forks slide up in the bridges so I decided to bite the bullet and pull everything apart. 

My crash wasn't a straight on impact, I sort of swiped across the front of the other vehicle and my bike ended up going down fairly hard on the right side. I had damage to the eng guard, pegs, grip, mirror, master cyl, bags, etc, but no impact marks on front tire, fender, or forks.
 

[HayHauler]

The procedure he is talking about is on page 13-14 and 13-15 of the service manual. 
1.  Left pinch bolts to 16 lb ft
2.  Axle bolt to 67 lb ft
3.  Install brake calipers and torque to 22 lb ft
4.  With front brake applied, sit on bike and bounce the front end several times to seat the axle and test the brake operation.
5.  Right pinch bolts to 16 lb ft.

Don't know if you knew this or not, but it doesn't hurt to lay it out again.

Good Luck!  Hope you are riding again soon.

Hay 
Jimmyt

[Michvalk]

You need to make sure the triple tree is square with itself. If the top clamp is not square with the bottom clamp, nothing you do will make the forks true. When you have the fork tubes out of the clamps is the best time to check the triple tree. That's where the pain of glass comes in. Just set it on the front of the tree. If it's not square, it will lift the glass on one corner. You will need to strip the stuff off the forks, but, it's the right way. You can also lay the fork tubes on a level surface to see if there is any bends in them. Just lay the upper tubes on the level, and give them a gentle roll. All your doing is trying to find the fault, and then if you find something, you can dig deeper

[stude31]

You need to make sure the triple tree is square with itself. If the top clamp is not square with the bottom clamp, nothing you do will make the forks true. When you have the fork tubes out of the clamps is the best time to check the triple tree. That's where the pain of glass comes in. Just set it on the front of the tree. If it's not square, it will lift the glass on one corner. You will need to strip the stuff off the forks, but, it's the right way. You can also lay the fork tubes on a level surface to see if there is any bends in them. Just lay the upper tubes on the level, and give them a gentle roll. All your doing is trying to find the fault, and then if you find something, you can dig deeper

Very good information my Michvalk.  Another thing to consider is to loosen the riser bolts from underneath the top bridge and then loosen the four hex bolts on the tops of the handlebar clamps.  There is a chance that those were tweaked during the collision and just need to be reset.  I saw this on Willow's bike when I was taking it apart.   Let us know.

Stude31

[matt]

+1  on what stude says   he mentioned mirror and master damage sounds like handle bars and risers

[etiwandablues]

Excellent info and I did miss that procedure in the service manual.  I'm just about positive the top bridge and bottom stem are not square although I haven't used the pane of glass method. I'll verify this and also check the risers and the tubes and sliders for runout. I'm thinking the tube on the right side must be tweaked. Unfortunately I'm just headed out of town for a week. I'll update this thread after I get back and do some checking. Thanks for all the input.

[gordonv]

I didn't know how to mention this, you said pane of glass. My mech showed me a 12" length of U channel he uses for this same thing. Places it on the lower portion of the TT, resting against the forks, and gently presses each corner to see if it is lifted off the forks at all.

[etiwandablues]

Back in town for a day and had a chance to pull the forks. I used a pane of glass from a picture frame to check the front of the steering stem with the front of the top bridge and it was true, all corners flat. I also checked this with a flat metal outfeed table from a portable planner as the glass was thin enough that it flexed a little.

I didn't disassemble the forks but there's only .001-.002 runout on the outer tubes. With the outers in v blocks, the lower end of the sliders had .002-.003 runout, either by rotating the outers or by rotating the sliders in the outer tubes.

I should pull the sliders and check them separately but I just don't have the time right now. I think I'm going to loosen the stem nut and then reassemble everything following the manual and hope the problem goes away. I'll check the risers & bars too. I'll keep updating but it may be another week.

[pancho]

Hey etiwandablues, sounds like you did a pretty through check of the tubes.... Of course the best way would be a dis assembly and check of each individual piece, but it does seem that you could get a pretty good idea of a potential problem by placing the outer tubes in the V blocks at the location of the trees, and rotating the outer tubes while checking the runout at the bottom end of the sliders.... if you are still within two or three thou, I don't think they would be responsible for a noticeable twist.