Add me to the Hydrolock list, *** FINAL UPDATE, FIXED***

[Flrider]

Saturday, I decided to add a can of Seafoam and go out for a 150 mile ride, the fat lady was running GREAT and I was a happy camper.

Sunday, I rode to work and as I was going to head home at 10pm, I heard the dreaded "CLUNK", did not try to start anymore  

I had left the petcock on the ON position as I had done a few times before but I guess this time the Seafoam must have loosen up some dirt and cause a stuck float.

I did smell and saw gas on the floor, on the left side of the bike.
Because of work, it has been four days and just today I was able to get in there to try an asses the extent of the damage.

I had done a lot of reading on the subject and this is what I have done so far:

1. Removed starter.
2. Removed spark plugs.
3. Removed small timing cover and turned engine and it turns ok with cylinders moving up and down.

MY QUESTION IS :

DO I NEED TO TRY AND START THE ENGINE BEFORE I PROCEED TO REMOVE IT, IN CASE THERE IS ANY WEIRD NOISES OR KNOCKING?



Here is a picture of what I see so far.



Looks like the case ok and I will have to replace the one gear that is missing 2 teeth which also brings me to another question

HOW DO I FISH THE MISSING TEETH SO THEY ARE NOT LEFT IN THERE?

I have owned my Valk for a year and this is a new endeavor for me, I am handy so I will try and tackle this job myself, any advise will be greatly appreciated. Thank you

[hubcapsc]

[Patrick]

It only went 'CLANK' once ?! I'm kinda surprised to see that damage. But, it doesn't make any difference, it has to come apart to be fixed. I wouldn't recommend starting it until its fixed.

I know its too late, but, just 'tap' the start button.

[salty1]

The starter is out of the bike, leave it out and fix the unfortunate problem. During the fix your likely to find those wayward teeth. please keep a photo diary for a later report of the repair. Good luck! 

[salty1]

You might also want to install a Dan Marc fuel shut off valve and double check the functionality of the petcock. Do you know what cylinder(s) was filled with fuel?

[Flrider]

It only went 'CLANK' once ?! I'm kinda surprised to see that damage. But, it doesn't make any difference, it has to come apart to be fixed. I wouldn't recommend starting it until its fixed.

I know its too late, but, just 'tap' the start button.

Yes, only once.
Which leads me to think that maybe the previous owner had it hydrolocked before and it already had a tooth missing and I did not know about it.

Could that be possible?

[Flrider]

You might also want to install a Dan Marc fuel shut off valve and double check the functionality of the petcock. Do you know what cylinder(s) was filled with fuel?

Will definitely do the Dan Mark.

None of the cylinders were full of gas but I did notice the number 6 spark plug saturated with gas.

Could the gas have drained to the oil pan since it was a few days before I got to it?
Or is there a way the gas I found on the floor came from on of the cylinders?

[sawdustar]

So.....what y'all are really saying is that I should never leave the bike parked with the petcock left in the "on" position? I've never had to shut the fuel supply off when parking a bike and I've been riding since I was 6 years old...so 22 bikes later.....

Will this be my first bike to have to shut the fuel valve off each time I park it for any significant amount of time?

[hubcapsc]

So.....what y'all are really saying is that I should never leave the bike parked with the petcock left in the "on" position? I've never had to shut the fuel supply off when parking a bike and I've been riding since I was 6 years old...so 22 bikes later.....

Will this be my first bike to have to shut the fuel valve off each time I park it for any significant amount of time?

This is a big issue here.

I've had my Valkyrie for 60,000 miles. I never turn off the gas. I regularly use reserve. I rebuilt
my petcock with a "coverset" once since I got the bike in 2007.

People do all kinds of elaborate things to try and prevent hydrolock, after all, it does happen, and it does suck.

My current plan is to keep using the OEM petcock, and to check it occasionally, like when changing air
filters (the tank is off anyway then).

-Mike "it's 4:30 and I rode to work today  "

[sawdustar]

So.....what y'all are really saying is that I should never leave the bike parked with the petcock left in the "on" position? I've never had to shut the fuel supply off when parking a bike and I've been riding since I was 6 years old...so 22 bikes later.....

Will this be my first bike to have to shut the fuel valve off each time I park it for any significant amount of time?

This is a big issue here.

I've had my Valkyrie for 60,000 miles. I never turn off the gas. I regularly use reserve. I rebuilt
my petcock with a "coverset" once since I got the bike in 2007.

People do all kinds of elaborate things to try and prevent hydrolock, after all, it does happen, and it does suck.

My current plan is to keep using the OEM petcock, and to check it occasionally, like when changing air
filters (the tank is off anyway then).

-Mike "it's 4:30 and I rode to work today  "

OK....so now I get to develop a new habit......turn the bike off with the key....and then turn the fuel supply off. Gotcha. Guess I still gotta lot more learning to do yet. 

[Michvalk]

You probably should rebuild or replace the petcock as well. There is a cover set that contains the parts necessary to do the rebuild.

[Patrick]

It only went 'CLANK' once ?! I'm kinda surprised to see that damage. But, it doesn't make any difference, it has to come apart to be fixed. I wouldn't recommend starting it until its fixed.

I know its too late, but, just 'tap' the start button.

Yes, only once.
Which leads me to think that maybe the previous owner had it hydrolocked before and it already had a tooth missing and I did not know about it.

Could that be possible?

Actually yes to both you're questions. The fuel could very well end up in the base after sitting for a couple days. Just as a little insurance, I'd suggest oiling that cylinder.
Usually, damage occurs when one continues to hammer the start button after hearing that dreaded 'CLANK'. It could be that some of the damage happened with the previous owner and you just had the bad luck of finishing it.

[sawdustar]

You probably should rebuild or replace the petcock as well. There is a cover set that contains the parts necessary to do the rebuild.

OK...I guess I better start reading and figure out what I need to do.

[Patrick]

So.....what y'all are really saying is that I should never leave the bike parked with the petcock left in the "on" position? I've never had to shut the fuel supply off when parking a bike and I've been riding since I was 6 years old...so 22 bikes later.....

Will this be my first bike to have to shut the fuel valve off each time I park it for any significant amount of time?

This is a big issue here.

I've had my Valkyrie for 60,000 miles. I never turn off the gas. I regularly use reserve. I rebuilt
my petcock with a "coverset" once since I got the bike in 2007.

People do all kinds of elaborate things to try and prevent hydrolock, after all, it does happen, and it does suck.

My current plan is to keep using the OEM petcock, and to check it occasionally, like when changing air
filters (the tank is off anyway then).

-Mike "it's 4:30 and I rode to work today  "

OK....so now I get to develop a new habit......turn the bike off with the key....and then turn the fuel supply off. Gotcha. Guess I still gotta lot more learning to do yet. 

Whether an engine can have a fuel-lock depends on the configuration of the fuel system as well as the fact the our engines have a much greater chance of it than most others.
I think its more of a, when it'll happen rather if it will happen. Some have had it happen while others have not. I think the amount of time spent in the saddle does work into this. The more fuel going thru these carburetors the better, it seems to keep them clean of debris.
I've mentioned this many times over the past 15 years. Tap the start button. It may not start on the first tap, but, just tap it anyway. If you ever hear that dreaded CLANK, do not touch that button again until the cylinders [ all of them] are cleared.

[Patrick]

You probably should rebuild or replace the petcock as well. There is a cover set that contains the parts necessary to do the rebuild.

OK...I guess I better start reading and figure out what I need to do.

One way of checking the fuel valve is to turn it off and see how far you can go. You shouldn't be able to go more than a couple miles. Some folks shut it off a way before the next stop, like a mile before they get home just so the system is close to empty.
I'm one that got rid of the original style shut-off years ago. I just use a little preflight/postflight checklist, as the right hand goes to the key the left goes to the fuel valve. Its not a guarantee, but......... it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

[Chrisj CMA]

So.....what y'all are really saying is that I should never leave the bike parked with the petcock left in the "on" position? I've never had to shut the fuel supply off when parking a bike and I've been riding since I was 6 years old...so 22 bikes later.....

Will this be my first bike to have to shut the fuel valve off each time I park it for any significant amount of time?

This is a big issue here.

I've had my Valkyrie for 60,000 miles. I never turn off the gas. I regularly use reserve. I rebuilt
my petcock with a "coverset" once since I got the bike in 2007.

People do all kinds of elaborate things to try and prevent hydrolock, after all, it does happen, and it does suck.

My current plan is to keep using the OEM petcock, and to check it occasionally, like when changing air
filters (the tank is off anyway then).

-Mike "it's 4:30 and I rode to work today  "

OK....so now I get to develop a new habit......turn the bike off with the key....and then turn the fuel supply off. Gotcha. Guess I still gotta lot more learning to do yet. 

If you are going to commit to a habit of ALWAYS turning off the gas (which I agree with) I would go ahead and get a quality manual valve to replace that OEM piece of junk.   The Honda fuel valve has stranded many riders, me included.

[sawdustar]

If you are going to commit to a habit of ALWAYS turning off the gas (which I agree with) I would go ahead and get a quality manual valve to replace that OEM piece of junk.   The Honda fuel valve has stranded many riders, me included.

Chris,
Do you have a recommendation for a good replacement?

[BF]

If you are going to commit to a habit of ALWAYS turning off the gas (which I agree with) I would go ahead and get a quality manual valve to replace that OEM piece of junk.   The Honda fuel valve has stranded many riders, me included.

Chris,
Do you have a recommendation for a good replacement?

Yes he does, but I'll let Jeff answer.  

But back to what Mike said.  Ditto everything he said.  I don't ever turn my petcock to off.  However, I did change it out for a new one when I put my new-to-me tank on a couple years ago.  

However, I do check it from time to time.  

Again, the way to check it is to turn it off and see how far you get.  You shouldn't get more than a mile (maybe a tad more) before it starts to starve for gas.  If you can go further than that, you need to take action.....either rebuild the OEM petcock with a coverset, replace the OEM petcock with a new one, or go with an aftermarket petcock.

I've read that some folks will replace their old OEM petcock with a new one and then rebuild their old one and keep it for a spare. 

Some folks really stress over the petcock issue.  I don't think it's a big deal myself....just check it from time to time.  

[1500Rider]

Just went through all this earlier this year. The previous owner had a hydro-lock and told me the brief rattle at start-up was something else. The more I investigated and learned about the Valkyrie the more I realized what the real issue was and what I had to do to correct it.

First, get yourself a Honda Shop manual - it's invaluable. The procedure is quite involved but can be done by one person if you have all the tools. I ended up ordering all the parts I needed (don't forget gaskets ext.) and had everything ready to go before I started the job. Several special tools are required and outlined in the shop manual. You might find some on eBay if you don't have them already. I'm sure other will chime in on any substitutes you can use as the Honda tools are outrageously expensive.

In addition to the idler gear repair, I'd strongly suggest getting rid of the OEM petcock. I know some say that with regular maintenance the stock one is fine but I wasn't willing to take that chance so I swapped mine out for a Pingel. Went with the manual version to eliminate another vacuum line. Get yourself in the habit of turning the fuel off every time you park the bike. Cheap insurance. It's taken some getting used to as this is the first bike I've ever had to do this to but once it's habit, you're good to go.

Lastly, avail yourself of all the expertise on this forum. Without the help of so many here I would have never been able to do the job by myself. Best of luck.

BTW, regarding the missing teeth – you'll find them at the bottom of the rear case when you're doing the repair. Don't worry about them getting into the crankcase and there's a screen dividing the rear case from the crankcase (unless it has been removed by a previous owner). Whatever you do, I wouldn't suggest riding the bike. I was lucky with mine that the tooth lodged itself under a guard at the bottom of the case. If it hadn't I could have had a lot more damage!

[gordonv]

Well, first thing is, you didn't need to do all that work just to see if you had hydro lock.

Just removing the plugs and turning the motor over, preferably by rolling the bike in high gear, and allow any gas to be squirted out of the block, would have be just fine to diagnose the problem.

Now, to fix the problem, what rest you did was fine, and needs to be done. But that is just half of it. You haven't talked about fixing the problem of what caused the hydro lock, but only about fixing the damage done to the bike.

What you need to do is to stop the hydro lock first.

Clear the gas from the cylinders. Stop the carb(s) float level valve from not closing, therefore stopping fuel from entering the cylinder.

Next is the petcock, which others have mentioned already. You've already mentioned your preference of not turning it off, so I would keep the OEM style petcock. You need to fix/replace it. There is a lot of posts on the subject.

Now you've fixed what cause the problem, so time to fix the damage to the engine.

You need to remove the rear cover to replace that gear with the 2 broken teeth. When it's off, you might be able to find the teeth at the bottom of the case. I don't remember exactly, but I seem to recall there is no passage from that rear into the crank case, there is a oil screen. Like mentioned, my first thought 2 was that it had seen a hydro lock before. I also actually doubt that your one hydro lock even broke one of the teeth off.

Good luck, and have fun.

[Bigun]

When pulling the motor have a couple of buddies there to help guide it out. I used a regular floor jack with a piece of plywood between it and the motor. Worked like a charm. P.S. the top motor mounts may hold the motor in without bolts, mine did. It helps to have a large rubber mallet within reach to help persuede the motor to part ways with the mounts.

[Michvalk]

Actually, you don't have to be having a carb problem to get a hydrolock. The petcock can leak through the vacuum line into the intake tube, bypassing the carb altogether. You have a lot of stuff off the bike already, and need to unhook the carbs anyway, so I would take the time to clean them. The petcock needs to be changed or rebuilt regardless

[BF]

Do you have to pull the motor to get to that broke gear?

[1500Rider]

Do you have to pull the motor to get to that broke gear?

I asked the same question before doing mine. Apparently there was a guy who did it with the engine still in the bike. Looked at a picture of the process and it seemed to be more difficult than actually dropping the motor. In the end, I dropped the motor out which gave me the opportunity to do some other jobs such as the desmog, engine detailing and replacing the intake o-rings. All these could have been done with the engine still in the bike but were much easier with the engine dropped.

Since I didn't have any help to to the job, I jacked up the bike on a bike lift, put jack stands under the swing arm and an old car wheel and tire under the front wheel. I then lowered the bike on to these supports which allowed me to free up the bike lift to support the engine only and lower it out of the bike once the mounts, cables, wiring, radiator ect. were removed. I could then just slide the engine out as my bike lift has wheels. I was careful to get the bike perfectly level using the adjustable jack stands so that when I raised the engine back into place, all the mounting points lined up.

A second set of hands does make the job easier but it can be done solo. Just take your time and think through each step before proceeding.

[Bigun]

Next questiion is the pin boss in the rear engine cover broken? Both of the hydrolocks I've seen the rear engine cover was also trashed not just the gear.

[Flrider]

Thank you all for your responses and advise.

I do have a manual, it was the first item I bought after I got my Valk.

I spent the afternoon taking the engine off the bike, I did not have another set of hands so I just took my time and used the manual as a guide.

My intentions are to fix the damage and since I have the engine off, I will rebuild the carbs and will change the petcock to a pingel.

I have not ordered any parts yet because I wanted to open it up to make sure I did not miss anything.


I was under the impression that I could just remove the rear case without having to remove the clutch assembly.

DO I NEED TO REMOVE THE CLUTH ASSEMBLY FIRST?


Again, thanks for all your responses

[Flrider]

Did some more digging into the manual and seems like the clutch has to come out as well.

Getting my list together of the parts and tools so I can place my order, If anyone knows of a place to get tools a little cheaper, please let me know.

So far this are the tools I know of:

Clutch Center Holder Pin                  07VMB-MZ00100
Holder Plate                                  07HGB-001010B
Lock Nut Wrench 46mm                   07JMA-MN50100

Main Shaft Holder                           07JMB-MN50200
Lock Nut Wrench 30x64mm              07916-MB00002

Anything else you can thing off, please let me know.


Many, many thanks for all that responded, at some point I had to stop thinking about all the work and time that I was going to have to invest and just GET TO IT AND DO IT.

A couple of pics of my progress.

[Hoser]

I have a manual petcock,  I taped a message to shut it off on the top of the riser cover, it was automatic to turn it off after a couple of weeks.  Hoser 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Did some more digging into the manual and seems like the clutch has to come out as well.

Getting my list together of the parts and tools so I can place my order, If anyone knows of a place to get tools a little cheaper, please let me know.

So far this are the tools I know of:

Clutch Center Holder Pin                  07VMB-MZ00100
Holder Plate                                  07HGB-001010B
Lock Nut Wrench 46mm                   07JMA-MN50100

Main Shaft Holder                           07JMB-MN50200
Lock Nut Wrench 30x64mm              07916-MB00002

Anything else you can thing off, please let me know.


Many, many thanks for all that responded, at some point I had to stop thinking about all the work and time that I was going to have to invest and just GET TO IT AND DO IT.

A couple of pics of my progress.

Looks like you've got a lot done. Good luck and keep the updates coming. Looking forward to resolution of your problem. For what it's worth I would go with the pingel petcock and a danmarc shutoff.

[MarkT]

I installed a Dan-Marc some years ago, and stopped cycling the OEM petcock except if I need to use reserve.  The Dan-Marc definitely works, as I also set it up as a anti-hijack/theft device, powered by a latch relay which must be activated after the key is on, or the engine will starve inside a mile.  I am confidant I can't have hydrolock now, as the vacuum petcock must fail, the Dan-Marc must leak, and one of the float valves must leak while it's corresponding intake valve is open.  No I don't believe it's possible for gas to bypass the valves and travel down the vacuum line to #6, as both the fuel valve diaphram and the vacuum diaphram have to fail for there to be a path for the fuel to pass down the vacuum line - and there is a vent between them, so if the fuel diaphram cracks, fuel will leak out the vent and I will know I have a failure from the leak. If the vacuum diaphram cracks, I will also know it because the bike won't run with the vacuum diaphram remaining closed due to the leak.

Here's my tech writeup on the Dan Marc install:
http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/Fuel_Shutoff/fuel_shutoff.html

[Jeff K]

The only things you really need is the two deep sockets. I've done dozens of motors and don't own the rest of those tools.
I have the sockets you need if you want to use them.
And you can, and I do, reuse the nuts.

Check out  my site, old but good info on how to get around the clutch tools. If you have an impact wrench


http://jkozloski.com/pics2/clutch/Clutch%20101.htm


And I have any and all of the parts you would need to fix it. Some used some new.

[salty1]

Well said MarkT! I followed your recipe when I installed my Dan Marc system, works great. I'm much more confident now of avoiding the dreaded hydrolock .

[cma1]

"THERES A LIST" ????????????????? !!!!

[1500Rider]

The only things you really need is the two deep sockets. I've done dozens of motors and don't own the rest of those tools.
I have the sockets you need if you want to use them.
And you can, and I do, reuse the nuts.

Check out  my site, old but good info on how to get around the clutch tools. If you have an impact wrench


http://jkozloski.com/pics2/clutch/Clutch%20101.htm


And I have any and all of the parts you would need to fix it. Some used some new.

Thanks for posting this page Jeff. Wish I had found it before doing my hydrolock repair. Could has saved myself quite a bit of money in Honda tools.

[pancho]

"Many, many thanks for all that responded, at some point I had to stop thinking about all the work and time that I was going to have to invest and just GET TO IT AND DO IT."

There ya go,,,your well on your way now, and just think, this is the perfect opportunity to finish painting the starter motor.

[Flrider]

I have a manual petcock,  I taped a message to shut it off on the top of the riser cover, it was automatic to turn it off after a couple of weeks.  Hoser 

That is one way of doing it 

[Flrider]

I installed a Dan-Marc some years ago, and stopped cycling the OEM petcock except if I need to use reserve.  The Dan-Marc definitely works, as I also set it up as a anti-hijack/theft device, powered by a latch relay which must be activated after the key is on, or the engine will starve inside a mile.  I am confidant I can't have hydrolock now, as the vacuum petcock must fail, the Dan-Marc must leak, and one of the float valves must leak while it's corresponding intake valve is open.  No I don't believe it's possible for gas to bypass the valves and travel down the vacuum line to #6, as both the fuel valve diaphram and the vacuum diaphram have to fail for there to be a path for the fuel to pass down the vacuum line - and there is a vent between them, so if the fuel diaphram cracks, fuel will leak out the vent and I will know I have a failure from the leak. If the vacuum diaphram cracks, I will also know it because the bike won't run with the vacuum diaphram remaining closed due to the leak.

Here's my tech writeup on the Dan Marc install:
http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/Fuel_Shutoff/fuel_shutoff.html

Thanks Mark.

I'll look into it, I definitely have to do something about changing the OEM petcock

[Flrider]

"Many, many thanks for all that responded, at some point I had to stop thinking about all the work and time that I was going to have to invest and just GET TO IT AND DO IT."

There ya go,,,your well on your way now, and just think, this is the perfect opportunity to finish painting the starter motor.

Yes sir, you could not see it unfinished when mounted on the bike 

[Flrider]

The only things you really need is the two deep sockets. I've done dozens of motors and don't own the rest of those tools.
I have the sockets you need if you want to use them.
And you can, and I do, reuse the nuts.

Check out  my site, old but good info on how to get around the clutch tools. If you have an impact wrench


http://jkozloski.com/pics2/clutch/Clutch%20101.htm


And I have any and all of the parts you would need to fix it. Some used some new.

Jeff

Pm sent your way.

Many, many thanks.

[gordonv]

In your first pic, I was surprised to see 2 starters and other items doubled up.

Then I noticed it was a mirror. 


You can go out and buy regular (hard to find) deep sockets, you don't need to buy from Honda.
Post about the sockets and the clutch baskets.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,17228.0.html