Add me to the Hydrolock list, *** FINAL UPDATE, FIXED***

[Flrider]

Well guys, just got home from work and here to give an update of the progress.

Talked to Jeff K this morning and he stood by his offer to help so I loaded the engine on my trailer and headed over to his house.

Got to his house around 11:15 and met Jeff for the first time.
Many of you said  "listen to Jeff K, he knows what he is talking about" and that is exactly the way it is.
You might want to consider him like a "Valk Wisperer"  , he put his hand over the timing cover and said  that my engine had less than 50k, my Valk now has 40k.

The guy went to town and I felt like I just needed to get out of his way or I would just slow him down.
It was hard for me to stand around and just witness the surgeon at work, that is not my character, but I did manage to at least hold the engine for him a couple of times 

I learned a lot and most important, got to met Jeff and his lovely wife.
It was 1:30 pm and it was all done, just as he had said " a couple of hours" of work.

I know many of you already know this but let me say this:

Jeff is a class act, he offered to help a complete stranger and opened the doors of his shop on a Saturday to help out a fellow Valk rider.


THANK YOU JEFF.

Hope I can pay it forward int he near future.

Here is a couple of pics I managed to take of the engine on the middle of the operation.






My next step is to get the carbs cleaned out and rebuilt and to get the OEM petcock replaced.

I can see the light at the end of the tunnel 

[1500Rider]

Awesome news! Over the last year-and-a-half that I've owned my Valkyrie I've found this community to be one of the most helpful groups of people I've ever met. Always a good news story when hearing about fellow riders helping one another. Just one more thing that makes the motorcycle community more like family.

Glad to hear you'll be getting her on the road soon.

[whitestroke]

Is the gear with the sheared off teeth the one that always eats it in a hydro-lock. Have others that have had hydro-lock had any other broken parts?

[Jeff K]

Is the gear with the sheared off teeth the one that always eats it in a hydro-lock. Have others that have had hydro-lock had any other broken parts?

Some have had the boss snap off of the housing on the housing along with shearing off some teeth

[salty1]

Flrider did you ever find the broken teeth with the tear down?  ???  Glad you got it taken care of!

[Robert]

Of course there is one other way to avoid hydrolock and that is with a belly tank on top of that it gives you 3.5 gallons of gas extra. I chose this way and its a great alternative.
http://www.rmworksinc.com/

[Jeff K]

Flrider did you ever find the broken teeth with the tear down?  ???  Glad you got it taken care of!

Two teeth snapped off. We found them both

[Pepmyster]

Good to hear!

[cma1]

I installed a Dan-Marc some years ago, and stopped cycling the OEM petcock except if I need to use reserve.  The Dan-Marc definitely works, as I also set it up as a anti-hijack/theft device, powered by a latch relay which must be activated after the key is on, or the engine will starve inside a mile.  I am confidant I can't have hydrolock now, as the vacuum petcock must fail, the Dan-Marc must leak, and one of the float valves must leak while it's corresponding intake valve is open.  No I don't believe it's possible for gas to bypass the valves and travel down the vacuum line to #6, as both the fuel valve diaphram and the vacuum diaphram have to fail for there to be a path for the fuel to pass down the vacuum line - and there is a vent between them, so if the fuel diaphram cracks, fuel will leak out the vent and I will know I have a failure from the leak. If the vacuum diaphram cracks, I will also know it because the bike won't run with the vacuum diaphram remaining closed due to the leak.

Here's my tech writeup on the Dan Marc install:
http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/Fuel_Shutoff/fuel_shutoff.html

i have to agree with mark on this one. this is the only subject that rivals oil in total number of posts. we tried to get a count several years ago on how many hydrolocks were out there, i think we came up with 3 or 4 in all the valks ever produced. these marathon threads leave one to believe its a common problem, and it ain't. bottom line is that unless you have a bad needle and seat in a carb, gas can't get in the cyl. unless the bike is running. run a can of cleaner through the bike a couple times a year, seafoam, marvel mystery oil, whatever works for you and just ride the crap out of it. the same with rear end drive units. i have the instructions for changing the rear tire prined out in my maintainance notebook. every time i get into the rear drive i go right down the list and do everything the same each time. i have two valks, and have owned another, and have never, ever, had a rear drive fail, or a u-joint.

i'm not calling anyone a liar, just saying that if you do things the way honda engineers say to do it, you won't have any problems with this bike. BULLETPROOF !!

[Jeff K]

I installed a Dan-Marc some years ago, and stopped cycling the OEM petcock except if I need to use reserve.  The Dan-Marc definitely works, as I also set it up as a anti-hijack/theft device, powered by a latch relay which must be activated after the key is on, or the engine will starve inside a mile.  I am confidant I can't have hydrolock now, as the vacuum petcock must fail, the Dan-Marc must leak, and one of the float valves must leak while it's corresponding intake valve is open.  No I don't believe it's possible for gas to bypass the valves and travel down the vacuum line to #6, as both the fuel valve diaphram and the vacuum diaphram have to fail for there to be a path for the fuel to pass down the vacuum line - and there is a vent between them, so if the fuel diaphram cracks, fuel will leak out the vent and I will know I have a failure from the leak. If the vacuum diaphram cracks, I will also know it because the bike won't run with the vacuum diaphram remaining closed due to the leak.

Here's my tech writeup on the Dan Marc install:
http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/Fuel_Shutoff/fuel_shutoff.html

i have to agree with mark on this one. this is the only subject that rivals oil in total number of posts. we tried to get a count several years ago on how many hydrolocks were out there, i think we came up with 3 or 4 in all the valks ever produced. these marathon threads leave one to believe its a common problem, and it ain't. bottom line is that unless you have a bad needle and seat in a carb, gas can't get in the cyl. unless the bike is running. run a can of cleaner through the bike a couple times a year, seafoam, marvel mystery oil, whatever works for you and just ride the crap out of it. the same with rear end drive units. i have the instructions for changing the rear tire prined out in my maintainance notebook. every time i get into the rear drive i go right down the list and do everything the same each time. i have two valks, and have owned another, and have never, ever, had a rear drive fail, or a u-joint.

i'm not calling anyone a liar, just saying that if you do things the way honda engineers say to do it, you won't have any problems with this bike. BULLETPROOF !!

"unless you have a bad needle and seat in a carb, gas can't get in the cyl"

Not true. A faulty petcock will also hyrdro lock a Valkyrie. It can send fuel down the vacuum line.

[hubcapsc]

i think we came up with 3 or 4 in all the valks ever produced.

There's two or three people on this board who have hydrolocked in the last few months...
I saw a hydrolocked Valkyrie torn down in the back of one of the local Honda shops a
few years ago... I bet there's "lots" of Valkyries out there that have hydrolocked, it is
a problem worth worrying about.

My pal Gary's Valkyrie came to him with a leaky petcock that the PO tried to fix
himself...



When a leaky petcock can't weep, gas flows down the vacuum line into #6...
Gary's #6 plug was all fouled, raw gas shot out the exhaust when he cranked
the bike... I think it is a miracle he didn't hydrolock before we fixed the problem...

-Mike

[cma1]

hmm, well it would seem the best fix might be to instal that pingle on the # 6 vacume line, huh ? 

[.]

Flrider, I'm glad you got that worked out. I hate to hear about bike trouble for anyone, especially of that nature.

Robert, thanks for the link on the belly tank info. I checked it out and I'd like to install one in my Phat Gurl-not because I'm especially afraid of hydrolock damage (although that bit of protection is certainly a big plus) but I could sure use the extra range. She is definitely a thirsty gurl!

[Flrider]

Flrider, I'm glad you got that worked out. I hate to hear about bike trouble for anyone, especially of that nature.

Thank you.

I am at a stand still, waiting forcarb parts to arrive, slow jets and bowl gaskets.
I am also waiting on a Dam-marc electric fuel shut off and a Pingel.

Trying to take preventive measures so this does not happen again.

Been Thinking about the belly tank as well, let us know if you decide to go for it and how it looks once mounted.

[Jeff K]

Flrider, I'm glad you got that worked out. I hate to hear about bike trouble for anyone, especially of that nature.

Thank you.

I am at a stand still, waiting forcarb parts to arrive, slow jets and bowl gaskets.
I am also waiting on a Dam-marc electric fuel shut off and a Pingel.

Trying to take preventive measures so this does not happen again.

Been Thinking about the belly tank as well, let us know if you decide to go for it and how it looks once mounted.

This is how it looks

[MarkT]

i think we came up with 3 or 4 in all the valks ever produced.

There's two or three people on this board who have hydrolocked in the last few months...
I saw a hydrolocked Valkyrie torn down in the back of one of the local Honda shops a
few years ago... I bet there's "lots" of Valkyries out there that have hydrolocked, it is
a problem worth worrying about.

My pal Gary's Valkyrie came to him with a leaky petcock that the PO tried to fix
himself...



When a leaky petcock can't weep, gas flows down the vacuum line into #6...
Gary's #6 plug was all fouled, raw gas shot out the exhaust when he cranked
the bike... I think it is a miracle he didn't hydrolock before we fixed the problem...

-Mike

Does the leaky petcock not weep, because the vent hole is plugged?  Looks like a cap in the pic above, but I didn't check again to see if that's the vent that will leak gas if the fuel-side diaphram is holed, thus alerting you to a problem.

As I said above -
I don't believe it's possible for gas to pass through the petcock and travel down the vacuum line to #6, as both the fuel valve diaphram and the vacuum diaphram have to fail for there to be a path for the fuel to pass down the vacuum line - and there is a vent between them, so if the fuel diaphram cracks, fuel will leak out the vent and I will know I have a failure from the leak. If the vacuum diaphram cracks, I will also know it because the bike won't run with the vacuum diaphram remaining closed due to the leak.

If anyone knows how gas can leak down the vacuum line to #6 without dripping through the vent between the diaphrams and thus alerting you to a problem, please explain.  AND how you would not be alerted to a faulty petcock, because the vacuum diaphram that you say is allowing gas to pass, by fault of being holed, the vacuum petcock can no longer open the gas path so you can't ride and thus would be searching for a problem and fixing it - this assumes you have not defeated the vacuum function of the petcock.

The reason I say this, is because I think I have all possible hydrolock possibilities prevented just by installing a Dan-Marc.  (Assuming it does not fail and start leaking)  So I don't need to take any other precautions.  Plz explain how a leak down the vacuum line can still happen given the way the petcock is built, without dripping gas you can smell, and while the petcock still passes gas to the engine past the now holed vacuum diaphram shutoff, so it will run normally.

[hubcapsc]

The petcock in my picture leaked all over the place. I always assumed gas started
going down #6 because the weep hole was capped, but I didn't get to see the
bike before the cap was put on.

-Mike

[ugelstad]

If you are going to spend all the money to change out the petcock, I would definitely put in the belly tank.  The  added fuel and the fact that it eliminates the hydrolock problem are worth the effort.  It also eliminates the need to turn off your gas.  It does this by requiring an electric fuel pump and not gravity.

[TW]

If I install a re-build kit on my OEM petcock and get into the habit of turning off the gas each time I get off the bike, am I likely to avoid the hydrolock problem?    This subject has definitely got my attention .  I am a half way shade tree mechanic but taking the motor out of the bike like the pics on this thread are over my head for sure.  Thanks in advance.  elliott

[cma1]

If you are going to spend all the money to change out the petcock, I would definitely put in the belly tank.  The  added fuel and the fact that it eliminates the hydrolock problem are worth the effort.  It also eliminates the need to turn off your gas.  It does this by requiring an electric fuel pump and not gravity.

so what you are telling us is that with a belly tank and an electric fuel pump you do away with the fuel in the carb. bowls, which is where the dangerous amount of fuel would be when a needle and seat goes bad and fuel may or may not drain into a cyl. be advised there is enough fuel in each carb to hydrolock all 6 cyl.

by reading all this i have come to this conclusion. i am going to do away with the vaccume line on #6 and install a pingle valve, take out the pair valve, shut off the valve every time i need to stop and pee, drain all 6 carbs whenever i go into a place to eat. open up my gearcase every morning to be sure all the secret o-rings are properly greased along with the splines, using all 4 types of grease everyone reccomends just to be on the safe side. change my oil every 2,000, 5000, or 12,000 miles alternating between wal mart oil, amzoil, and all 96 brands of synthetic and semi synthetic. install car tires, truck tires, mini bike tires and the dreaded E-3 so i can rip through the corners on my valkyrie the way i would on a crotch rocket. o.k. i think i got it.

or

i can just do what honda reccomended and ride it till i puke.

[Gryphon Rider]

so what you are telling us is that with a belly tank and an electric fuel pump you do away with the fuel in the carb. bowls, which is where the dangerous amount of fuel would be when a needle and seat goes bad and fuel may or may not drain into a cyl. be advised there is enough fuel in each carb to hydrolock all 6 cyl.

Please explain how the fuel drains up out of the bowls when the engine isn't running.

[cma1]

last time i checked my engine was below my carbs ( Like all engines) you will know how if you experience a stuck float and bad needle and seat.

all mechanical devices have problems, the reason carbs were done away with and fuel injection adopted was all these problems that existed with carbs. keeping them squeeky clean is the only answer there is, not a hard thing to do.

the reason for my post is that i really don't remember ever owning anything that generated so much panic than the "problems" a valk have. when in reality they are the finest, toughest, carb operated vehicle ever built. if everyone went for every "fix" that is reccomended on this and other boards they would be riding a 60K bike and still someone would find something wrong.

my point is just this. you are riding the best enjoy it and stop riding with your shorts in a wad worrying about what will break next. even harleys aren't that bad.

[Gryphon Rider]

My point is that fuel in the carb bowls is not, in fact, a possible contributor to hydro-lock when a belly tank with fuel pump is used.  I see no reason why the fuel capacity of the carb bowls contributes to the volume fuel that could make its way into the combustion chamber with the engine not running, even with a stock fuel system.  I agree that the anxiety expressed here is out of proportion to the likelihood of problems.

[cma1]

fuel tank above cyl. fuel line above cyl. carb above cyl. bowl full of fuel above cyl, intakes above cyl. needle and seat that controls the amount of fuel in the carb bowl above the cyl, needle fails fuel in bowl overflows and spills over into the cyl. viola' fuel in the cyl. (ever had your car get "flooded")

i'm not a honda certified mechanic, so am i missing something here. the belly tank still pumps the bowls full of fuel. it only takes a matter of cc's of fuel to hydrolock a motor, liquids including gas "don't compress" (learned that in science class) no matter how much gas comes through the lines, if the needle and seat are working, it don't get into the cyl. unless you twist the throttle. actually i would agree more with the #6 vacume hose idea if someone would tell me it was always #6 that flooded and locked. it ain't possible to lock any other cyl but #6 with fuel leaking down the hose and into #6 intake.

so ! what kind of oil do you use ?

[Patrick]

The fuel lines contain enough fuel to lock a cylinder. Some have tried to argue that, but, I know it to be fact. Thats why I just tap that little black button.

[redripper]

I recently suffered the dreaded hydralock and repairs made. The OEM petcock was replaced and i added a Dan-Mark elec. valve. Had some issues with the valve addition. Learned from experience and this site that the fuel line cannot run down lower then up hill to the line to the "T"  connector line. I did that and had fuel starvation at 3500 + rpm and lower fuel in the tank.
Was concerned about fuel flow volume through the Dan-Mark. Did a test. Set up 50 cc syringe and measured time for 50 cc of fuel to gravity flow through the open valve. About 5 sec. Had tank removed and placed syringe into fuel line, ran engine at 3500-4000 rpm and took Aprox. 30 sec. to use the 50 cc of fuel. The flow seems adequate to me and no actual problems running the bike on the road.

I have a possible partial solution to the potential vacuum line leak to #6 cylinder. I have taken a much longer vacuum line and run the line along the frame up and into the Interstate faring. pushed a loop on upward so that the loop is higher than the tank. Returned the line  back along the frame and under air box to #6 manifold. I did measure and determine the fuel volume of approximately 37 inches of vacuum line to the loop top , about 11 cc of fuel. The line works fine petcock opens with  engine vacuum. Theory is if valve does leak only a max of 11 cc of fuel ( depending on fuel level in the tank maybe less) will enter the vacuum line on the uphill side, none on the down hill side. I intend on adding a "T" and a short clear caped off  line downward  where I can see if any fuel has entered the line.  I thought about what may happen if the 11 cc of fuel was in the line and started the engine and additional fuel was vacuum pulled? I don't know if the engine would hydralock by pulling additional fuel through the line and into the intake manifold while running? Anyone have an opinion? I'm usually outside the box and please be critical of my theory. I just cannot get a grip on how much fuel would be drawn into the 250 cc cylinder on one intake stroke. Keep in mind that the greatest volume of air some fuel draw would be through the carb / air and fuel.

Enough said. Sorry for soooo long a note.
Don

[John Schmidt]

For those questioning the adequacy of flow through the Dan-Marc, it's more than enough. I've had mine on about two weeks less than MarkT(a few years back), and quite a number of miles(thousands). Results; problems....zip, zero, nada. Just be sure everything in the fuel lines run downhill from the petcock(remember, it's gravity feed). Mine is a manual Pingel with an extended pickup tube, giving me roughly the same reserve as the OEM. So, I have the Pingel, an inline filter, then the Dan-Marc wired to come on with the key, and the I/S tank on my Tourer. Altogether, range is better than 200 miles...less in town. Oh....also #38 slow jets but that didn't affect anything except I haven't had any clogging issues for the last 6-7 yrs. now. Mileage and range the same.

[indiandave]

For those questioning the adequacy of flow through the Dan-Marc, it's more than enough. I've had mine on about two weeks less than MarkT(a few years back), and quite a number of miles(thousands). Results; problems....zip, zero, nada. Just be sure everything in the fuel lines run downhill from the petcock(remember, it's gravity feed). Mine is a manual Pingel with an extended pickup tube, giving me roughly the same reserve as the OEM. So, I have the Pingel, an inline filter, then the Dan-Marc wired to come on with the key, and the I/S tank on my Tourer. Altogether, range is better than 200 miles...less in town. Oh....also #38 slow jets but that didn't affect anything except I haven't had any clogging issues for the last 6-7 yrs. now. Mileage and range the same.

Jonh
 I had a issue with adequacy of flow thru the Dan-Marc. I got my bike from PO with the Dan-Marc and Manual Pingel installed on my bike and it had a lost of power issue from the start - losted it at around 3500rpm on the hyw.

I went thru the carbs to clean them up and add the 38'S slows, did not replace the needles but all where good. It ran better but still power loss. I was pressed for time as I had a trip coming up. So I took the inline filter and the Dan-Marc out - now I have no power Issues. The line with valve/filter was running down hill. The only question I had at the time of removel was the PO had the power coming off the coil, the next time I have sometime was going to put it back in but power thru the key to see if it was getting a puls voltage from the coil pack.

Buy the way I have put 10K on the bike that I bought in March. And last week went to work forgot to shut off fuel. Came out after 12 hour shift and bump the starter. Yep you know it, Locked up! So I sat there after a midnight shift thinking about it, not wanting to pull the pods and chrome covers off to pull the plugs. So I pull the bike in second gear and rocked her backwards slowly got her to moveback about 12 ft had fuel coming out epa can (had pulled plug) and exhast right side. Went to bump start her again and she fire up. I know I'm luckly, I have checked and have not found the needle that stuck open yet. But planning on installing the Dan-Marc with out filter to see if that works.
David

[salty1]

Indiandave I would guess that inline filter was the culprit for your power loss. Your unfortunate hydrolock circumstance is the exact reason I installed a new OEM petcock and a Dan Marc shutoff on both my Valks. I realize the OEM petcock has its weaknesses but for the most part if I forget to turn it off it's not going to allow gas flow to fill a cylinder(s). I bet your bike will run just fine now. 

[Flrider]

AND SHE RIDES AGAIN  

Happy to report that 17 days later and I got my Valk back up and running again, just last night.
I found out that I really, really, really dislike waiting for parts to arrive.  


Here is some information on what I found as repairs were being done, but it is important to give a little background on the bike:


I bought it a year ago from an auction company, it was running and needed some cosmetic repairs.
PO had laid it down and my Ins. Co. had written it off, I took a chance and bought it even tough I was completely new to the Valk world.

Seemed to me that it was running ok but it did have a little miss at idle.
One of the first thing that I did was to get new tires and check and service the rear splines.
I rebuilt the crabs, got a Pringle and Golan in line filter but I was not prepared to find that the OEM Petcock was clogged with crud and dirt, never taught that a gas tank could be that filthy.
So there was the cause of the Hydrolock, all that dirt went through the fuel system and caused the failure of the petcock and float valves.

This is what the carbs looked like when I first opened them.





This is how they turned out with new 38 slow jets and new float valves.





This is what I found when the petcock came off




This is the new Pingle with an extended pick up




Motor ready to go back in




I want thank all the brothers that step up to help out as I reached out to them for advice, I got to say that they were very patient and took the time to respond to my question.

JeffK thank you for spending your personal time on your Saturday at your shop, helping me get my motor fixed.

1500Rider, John Schmidt, Mark T and BonS.

THANK YOU

[sequoia]

  well im definitely going to need to be put on the list. you can see how bad mine is in my new post titled "missing teeth"  i have a big decision to make on if i should tackle this repair myself or spend the money to have it done professionally.
 

[twdurdentwd]

Yeah you need those (2) large bitch sockets....FYI I found shallows and sliced em and spliced some pipe in em to make em deep well....a LOT cheaper.

You shouldn't have an issue finding the two teeth...get yourself a magnet on a stick and fish around if they don't fall out after removing the rear case....LOOK VERY CAREFULLY at the assembly mount which the starter feeds into...the bracket sometimes can become loose causing this teeth eating issue. You're lucky you won't be replacing that expensive rear case.

Try western honda...ones i used when this happened to me (twice). Do an oil change when everything's done, I bet yer oil smells rich don't it?