What do you all think of this?

[Psychotic Bovine]

A rather novel approach to cutting health care costs.....
over my dead body?  That's what it sounds like!
Funny thing, Dean Koontz (the author), has had this as a major plot device in a lot of his books, but here it is on CNN.

Read and let me know what ya'll think.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/07/23/health.care.end.of.life/index.html

and to [removed], I did NOT mention Obama in this, or his health care "plan".

[name calling, however politely, is nothing more than a personal attack.  If you can't call someone by their handle, then don't.]

[Ghillie]

They are talking about trillions of dollars and this article is talking about saving less than 100 million. What a crock.

[Robert]

I believe its a good idea not really for the financial reasons but for the comfort some could receive because they are in the place they want to be when they go and the family may be able to eliminate some issues that may need to be addressed. The hospitals do keep people alive some that there is no hope for and quality of life is not there some are not even there. But I agree with one line in the article can we go on compensating these doctors and hospitals at the present rate? Also cut off the ability of doctors to charge more than once for a procedure and make them stand by their work. Also get these sob's out of the profession that are in it for the money and not to help people. Last take these drug company s and wring their necks, A dont have any problem with a company making a profit but just like the oil companys enough is enough. Obama is not my favorite person but if he really wanted to do something then the drug and oil companies would be a good place to start. hell with the profits that these two make you could go along way to balancing the budget. But I doubt very seriously that we will see this happen and I am not in favor of nationalizing company's just raining in corporate greed

[Jeff K]

The question I keep asking is...
How the heck did this "health care reform" get blown up into a huge emergency issue? We went from 0 -100 in a matter of days.
I firmly believe there are more pressing issues that affect a heck of a lot more people.

[Chrisj CMA]

The question I keep asking is...
How the heck did this "health care reform" get blown up into a huge emergency issue? We went from 0 -100 in a matter of days.
I firmly believe there are more pressing issues that affect a heck of a lot more people.

Jeff I vowed not to get involved with political bantering, so no slandering here, just true observations and a question.....yeah,it blows my mind too.  Its like this new White House and Congress only cares about spending (borrowing) as much and as fast as possible while they can still blame the troubles on the previous administration.......there doesnt seem to be any concern at all that so far nothing is working but yet the answer is to double down on this failing spend policy. Ok well the banks may be happier, but with the billions and billions that were handed them, they should be happier.....but what about the millions that cant find work?

So I ask, Im not slamming anyone, I just ask based on observing....if unemployment is 10% and the forcast was "If we do nothing it would get to 8-10%" Then how is it that the stimulus is starting to work....where is it working?  Where are all these jobs that have been "saved or created"  Does anyone out there see these brand new jobs hiring??  Maybe energy should be directed to redirecting some of the cash to ease the 10%...get folks working before we move on to Healthcare?????   maybe?

Now, doesnt it seem strange that no one is even reading this medical bill, yet they want it passed quickly.  Someone asked a specific question of Obama at a news conference a specific question that was written in the plan and his answer was...."Im not familiar with that"  only 60 congressional members pledged to read the dang thing before voting on it and that 60 included none of the Democrats.

We need to write down all the names of those that wont commit to reading the medical bill and GET RID OF THEM, and we need to press for anyone that votes for it to sign up for it......How can they think spending (borrowing over another trillion $$ is a good thing right now?!?)

Real change will come about by getting rid of the the ones that are sending us into an unrecoverable tail spin!

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

The word Obama taints any conversation in my world but aside from that the idea of dying nearly anywhere but a hospital makes sense to me.

Electing to die at home is the norm in my family. When my Dad died of cancer in 1977 Mom cared for him at home because he hated being in a hospital. Our family doc helped her with an IV and whatever it took to control his pain and make him comfortable and he passed in his own bed in Dec. of that year.

When Mom was passing a few years ago we brought her home so she could pass where she was happiest and I held her hand and told her we loved her as she left us. Then my oldest son moved in with my step-dad because his health was too poor for him to live alone. My family provided Ernie (my step-dad) 24 hour care from that moment until he passed in his sleep at home a couple months ago.

I pray that when it’s my time to move to the next world I don’t have to do it from a hospital bed. Hospitals are much as I imagine prisons to be only more expensive and more confining. If staying in one for a while can delay your death without ruining your quality of life then sure, it makes sense. But, if your stay there will ruin your quality of life while causing you to suffer longer it makes little to me.

It frequently seems that the cycle of modern life is to spend our lives working in order to finally own a home, maybe some property and maybe a little savings. Then, for many of us, our deaths involve an extended stay, caged in a bed in an institution while that institution transfers as much of what we have accumulated into it’s own coffers as possible.

 Many times through reverse mortgages and such the object seems to be to keep us, sometimes horribly, alive until all we have accumulated has been transferred to these institutions. As someone who hunts and chooses to live in the natural world as much as possible it seems that we frequently reserve the worst deaths in nature for ourselves.

[solo1]

 Many times through reverse mortgages and such the object seems to be to keep us, sometimes horribly, alive until all we have accumulated has been transferred to these institutions. As someone who hunts and chooses to live in the natural world as much as possible it seems that we frequently reserve the worst deaths in nature for ourselves. (quote by Frye)

Very Well Said!

Wayne

[3fan4life]

Almost 30 years of working in EMS has made me a firm believer in and a staunch supporter of a person's RIGHT to die at home if they wish.

The one variable that I have seen regularly over the years is that the patient is ready to go but when the time comes the family just can't let them.  They call 911 and the patient against their wishes ends up dying in the hospital anyway.


It takes a very strong person to watch their loved one die even when they know that it is inevitable.

Many doctors do fail their terminally ill patients by not talking with them and their families about "End of Life" issues.

Hospice does a very good job of this and when they are involved we (EMS) rarely get pulled into the equation.   


I'm all for doctors talking with patients and family members.  So, that when the end comes everyone knows what to expect and will honor the wishes of the person who is dying.


With me this isn't about saving money for the government or insurance companies.

It's about honoring the dying wishes of a fellow human being and not placing a financial burden upon their loved ones.

[Chrisj CMA]

Almost 30 years of working in EMS has made me a firm believer in and a staunch supporter of a person's RIGHT to die at home if they wish.

The one variable that I have seen regularly over the years is that the patient is ready to go but when the time comes the family just can't let them.  They call 911 and the patient against their wishes ends up dying in the hospital anyway.

A different side of it.  I brought my first wife home from the hospital to die (although I didnt know it when we left the hospital, they failed to tell me she was hoplessly terminal.....I was led to believe she could recover)  Anyway.....for two weeks I cared for her and she seemed comfortable but I dont think she knew where she was by then......when we left the hospital she knew she was going home.  

At the very end when things got dire and she was not comfortable, seemed to be in pain and other terrible things happening I called 911 and yes she died in the hospital, but three things happened that couldnt have happened at home.

First, they made her pain free with medication

Second, there was no autopsy needed so the process was quick and simple of getting the final plans arranged

Third, it was much easier to "protect" what the kids actually saw


She didnt know where she was when she died but she wasnt in pain and that was all I cared about

[solo1]

Chris, I had a somewhat similar experience.  When my wife was in intensive care for the last time, the pulmonologist kept telling me that she was going to pull through.  However, I didn't trust him because he was an arsehole and a true egomaniac.  The IC nurse told me she was going out for coffee and had "forgotten" to put away the wife's files. I looked at the files, Two doctors, including this arsehole had written terminal in my wife's file. He lied to me.   It was left up to me to tell her!

The nurses (the best) arranged for hospice care for her in a nursing home (wife was very heavy, i couldn't handle her)and she spent 8 days in hospice before she passed. Hospice Care 10,  Doctors 0.

[Chrisj CMA]

Too bad they (Doctors) don't know how to talk to us sometimes.  I had no problem with her care except for that one "detail"  I guess I wasn't that angry even then because I was hopeful to the end for a miracle; anything is always possible, but the truth would have been nice.  Sorry you also had to go through it

[Robert]

If you listened to Obama he said its critical to pass this health care reform for the economy to get better and this is in light of a report that the congress accounting office doing the numbers on the bill that they currently have in front of them said NO WAY and that there are some real dire economic problems with the proposal. My mother died at home and she was a nurse signed a dnr order which is a do not resuscitate she said no way do I want to go on if I cant be here. She has seen to many brought back to life and not be there or quality of life was nil.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Chris, I had a somewhat similar experience.  When my wife was in intensive care for the last time, the pulmonologist kept telling me that she was going to pull through.  However, I didn't trust him because he was an arsehole and a true egomaniac.  The IC nurse told me she was going out for coffee and had "forgotten" to put away the wife's files. I looked at the files, Two doctors, including this arsehole had written terminal in my wife's file. He lied to me.   It was left up to me to tell her!

The nurses (the best) arranged for hospice care for her in a nursing home (wife was very heavy, i couldn't handle her)and she spent 8 days in hospice before she passed. Hospice Care 10,  Doctors 0.

I also should have mentioned Hospice. They were a huge help to us, both with Mom and with my step-dad Ernie. They were the most caring people anyone can imagine and several of them came to Ernie's service. I can't speak highly enough of them. We probably could not have cared for Ernie as long as we did without them.