Thank God For A Dried Up Ujoint Boot

[pancho]

Friday a week ago I took a trip to Eureka Springs for the day. Went up 23 (the pig trail) lots of twisties through the mountains, so never got over 60 or so. Coming back in the late afternoon, I went west to NW Arkansas and came south on 540. Even in Arkansas, that road gets rush hour traffic like any large metropolitan area, so I was running 80 85 just to keep up. Well my bike just didn't feel right, and seemed to be noisy, but in heavy traffic, I couldn't be sure, but it sure didn't feel right. At mountainburg, I decided to get off the big road and take secondary roads home at a slower speed. After I got home, I decided the universal joint was going bad,,, you know, reading other posts about ujoint failure.. So on Saturday I removed the universal and it felt good to me,, nothing wrong that I could feel, so I start putting it back together. Well I just could not get the boot back on,, it was hard, and there was an area that had never been seated correctly and it was out of alignment.



So I bite the bullet and decide I will be down for a couple of days and order a boot. About Tuesday I was in the shop and decide to take some measurements of the ujoint and examine it for how I would machine it if I ever wanted to rebuild one,, I mean it will fail eventually. Well, I had it in a vice, and was working on clamping it when I found the play in it.. it was bad, definite play under load.  So I order a Ujoint.  I would have reassembled the bike if the boot would have gone back on, and who knows how long I wold have been searching for the problem before I tried the ujoint again!

Well I had all the parts yesterday and reassembled the bike. I found that the easiest way for me to do it, was to lower the swingarm to install the joint and boot,, put the swingarm level to slide the ujoint on the output shaft, and raise the swingarm up to the fender to install the boot. I first tried "rolling the boot up like a sock" as uturn had suggested, but gave that up after a couple of tries,, it did not work for me. (maybe not holding my mouth right)  



What worked was having the swingarm raised to the highest it would go and getting the big end of the boot in place over the top of the swingarm from the side of the bike. Then, getting under the bike and working, pushing and pulling and it snapped in place,, maybe 10 minutes on the method that worked.  No cussing or breaking anything, but I may still make up a pivot retainer tool and remove the swingarm next time as I am not sure I did not just luck out....   maybe   ....The first time I removed and installed the airbox, I removed it again just to do it to make sure I could do it correctly and had my method perfected,,,,  I didn't have any desire to do that with the boot!!

[John Schmidt]

Usually the best way to check these u-joints is to use the largest screw drive in the tool box.  Insert the blade in between the cross and either end....either the output end for the driveshaft or the engine side. Twist the blade so it applies "separation" pressure on the bearings. If it's loose at all, that will surely show it up. I have a large screw driver with a square shaft and use that to test them, it will pinpoint a bad one every time even if it feels good using just your hands.

[pancho]

Yeah,, I won't fall for that again... I had just seen a couple of recent posts of ujoint failure, and they were falling apart.....  mine felt good to me and I just didn't put it to the test.

[John Schmidt]

Yes, know what you mean, I changed mine out at a little over 40k just in case since I had three spares. With the test method I spoke of, you can check it without removing it. Jack it up, pull the boot off the engine side and you can stick your screwdriver in where I described and twist it. That will tell you if your u-joint is living on borrowed time. If it passes the test, slip the boot back on....no disassembly needed.

[pancho]

Hmmm ...good point Stuffy,,,  being able to check it on the bike. Sure can save some time, that is a really good tip,,, I'll remember it.

[jimmytee]

I was one of those who was fortunate to make it home with a u-joint that was found to be falling apart. But, I got to thinking and I can remember a few times last year, that I'd hear an occasional squeaking noise. It only happened every once in a while, and I attributed it to my rear brake, but now I'm wondering if it wasn't the bearings of the u-joint complaining before they got to the condition I found them in. Time will tell if I ever hear the squeaking again.

[uturn]

i need to take photos sometime of the roll up method...its just one turn where the tabs are folded back in...hard to describe i guess. im a thousand miles from my bike in tucson doing a training course on a new airplane so its fun to think about something else for a minute.

maybe when i get home ill take photos and do a tech section writeup. anyway, sorry for my poor description of the sock trick...im glad you were able to detect the ujoint problem though! and also happy it didnt go on with too much cussing

[98valk]

how many miles are these u-joints failing at?

thanks

[pancho]

Mine had 47K on it, but I have had a "noise" like jimmytee mentioned for quite awhile. Mine had an intermittent ringing/rattleing, most noticeable when changing throttle position when on long hauls at constant speed. I thought it was an idler bearing in the timing case,,  just had never gotten around to examining it as it didn't sound like it was going to fail immediately.   That noise is gone now.


Hey uturn, yeah, if your method is pretty reliable, some pictures would be good when you get back home and relaxed,  I've seen several posts of people struggling and suffering with those boots...... 

If your learning a new plane, your pretty deep into it..      FOCUS      ..

[Bagger John - #3785]

how many miles are these u-joints failing at?

A better question would be:

How many miles before the U-joint fails, and under which riding conditions and load?

Additionally: Are specific models or model years of the bike more prone to the failures than others?

The guy who's doing full-power clutch dumps day in and day out may skew the results somewhat if he never experiences a problem while the conservative touring rider regularly replaces them at 20k intervals.

Data is needed...

[Skinhead]

I've got >90K and >58K on my two Valks, no u joint problems yet.

[Willow]

I have a 2001 Standard at over 174,000 miles with no issues and the original U-joint.  (I shouldn't say that out loud.)

I replaced one at 120,000 miles on a 1999 Interstate.

[pancho]

I got my bike last year with 38K on it, in nasty condition, with worn out splines and ruined rear wheel from bad maintenance,, no telling how it was treated, but the appearance said not good.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I have a 2001 Standard at over 174,000 miles with no issues and the original U-joint.  (I shouldn't say that out loud.)

I replaced one at 120,000 miles on a 1999 Interstate.

yep, you are screwed now!