"does not have the best interests of the United States of America at heart"

[junior]

Oh, crap now you're going to start a war over north and south?!!!!!

Jeff, I think we already had that and someones got their butts handed to them.   

Willow  (ducking for cover)

Let's look at it in terms of a modern day football game...One side gets 50 players the other gets 10....The 10 damn near won the game 

is that like horseshoes and handgrenads?

[Willow]

is that like horseshoes and handgrenads?

Sort of.  The benefit of almost winning an armed conflict is that they almost get to write the history books.    

[junior]

I think Towlie might be high...




"Don't forget to bring a towel"

i think this belongs in the other thread
Cool stuff seen at Inzane « 1 2 »

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I still think the Congress should be paid the national average salary, participate in Social Security ONLY for their retirement, use Medicare for their healthCare.....my thinking is there would be no need for term limits.

I couldn't agree more. Much would be different and better under those circumstances.

[Stanley Steamer]

Hey Sugarbee.............. You can remove half the finger for the black paint, but put half of that half back for the trike.   

Just letting everyone know that they/we are all freakin' nuts and in the same freakin' boat!  That pic is of a Jewish guy, married to a black chick, with a bi-racial kid, who celebrates Christmas and Chanukah, working for a German company, quasi-republican (probably more libertarian than anything), from the north, on some mountain in the south, riding with a bunch of Christians, riding Valkyries of all colors, shapes, and wheel configurations.

Hey G-Man,  You are indeed a diverse fellow, and that's what makes us a great nation!! Proud to know you bro........      

G-man's a great guy no matter WHAT Oss says about him!!!......

[Strong Eagle]

Mr. Eagle...you took EVERY opportunity to "smear" our past president, call him names, and question his patriotism on a regular basis!  (And you STILL do)!

I challenge you to find any post I ever made that questioned Bush's patriotism.  As for calling him a moron and other names, I proudly plead guilty.

[Strong Eagle]

I not only believe he is unpatriotic, I believe he has plans for this country that will utterly undo it!!
This country does not need to be "re-made"! The Constitution of the United States needs to be followed to the letter and in the intentions of it's authors.

So... I'll ask you... what is YOUR evidence for this view?  What are those plans he has and why is he executing them?

[Strong Eagle]

again....i find this SOOOO amusing. When Bush was in office....the "left" couldn't spare a minute in their constant bashing of EVERY thing he ever did. it just went on and on and on......

Now, the shoe is on the other foot. And of course, the left is crying "why....why....why". or saying "why can't we all just get along". Why can't you support this President.....etc.

Again, not saying either side is right. Not saying which side i'm on (though MOST who know me, already know the answer to that.....). I'm just saying i find it SOOOOOOOOOO amusing (and yet sad)....that now......the shoe is on..........the other foot............and...............well..............  

   

You have missed the point as have so many others in this thread.  If Chris had said that Obama's policies do not have America's best interests at heart, then what you say might make sense.  But Chris didn't question the man's politics or policies, he questioned his patriotism and I'd like to know what evidence he has that Obama does not have America's best interests at heart.  Nobody is crying.

[Strong Eagle]

Really, Chris... what is in his heart?  What is motivating him?
 

some reading for u if u really want to know the truth and answers to your questions.

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/brainwsh.shtml    A Synthesis of the Russian Textbook on Psychopolitics

http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm     Rules for Radicals

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/greening.shtml    This is the whole, real story behind the environmental movement, from the spotted owls, to Klamath Falls.

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=318470857908277     "I am proud to see that my father's model for organizing is being applied successfully beyond local community organizing to affect the Democratic campaign in 2008.

God Bless you in your search for the Truth. For the Truth will set u free indeed.

CAUTION:  Wingnuts at work.  What is written on those webpages fly in the face of reality.  Obama is a guy raised by a single parent.  He made good.  He got into politics.  He got elected.  He ran for the Senate.  He got elected.  He ran for President.  He got elected.  Therefore, there MUST be something sinister about him.  Conspiracy theorists abound!
 
These nutcases are just like the birthers.  No amount of evidence will ever convince them that Obama was not born in Kenya and no matter what Obama does or says, these folks will never stop believing he is here to take over the country.  Why, we don't know, of course... except that Obama is some sort of really, really sinister guy with bad motives. 

It really is evidence that we need a national health care plan so that these people can get the meds they need.

[Duffy]

Oh sure Strong Eagle, bring it back to the original subject, despite many efforts to de-rail the converstion.

One side step that I really liked was the idea to make congress subject to only SS for retirement and only medicare for health benefits.

On a similar note, Charlie Gibson said tonight that congress is pushing a bill through to buy three Gulfstream jets for their use - only months after blasting GM Ford and Chrysler for flying private jets to DC. They are all nuts!

[motomama]

Mr. Eagle...you took EVERY opportunity to "smear" our past president, call him names, and question his patriotism on a regular basis!  (And you STILL do)!

I challenge you to find any post I ever made that questioned Bush's patriotism.  As for calling him a moron and other names, I proudly plead guilty.

I will not waste my time nor my energy dealing with you or any of your challenges, Mr. Eagle.  Those that frequent this board and attend the many events across the country, as I do, know me, know who I am and what I stand for.  On the other hard, those that frequent this board also know who you are, what you stand or don't stand for and can recount the many, many negative posts and bashing you have done on this board, not only to the former administration, but to members of this organization, as well.  I choose not to waste my valuable time on you or your challenges.

Like I said before...it was the pot calling the kettle black, and I stand behind what I said in the previous post.

[Willow]

I challenge you to find any post I ever made that questioned Bush's patriotism.  As for calling him a moron and other names, I proudly plead guilty.

So, interestingly, one person says the President "does not have America's best interest at heart" and the self appointed intellectual elite declares it is an attack on the President's patriotism.  Another, perhaps the "intellectual elite" himself, publicly announces that another president lied and led the country into war for his own selfish purposes.  He also repeatedly misrepresented the president's intellectual status, but insists there was no attack on that president's patriotism.

Anyone else having a problem following this alleged logic?

It's a day for firsts.  Someone today gave up the right to insist that he has never initiated a political thread.

I have a lot of respect for some of my friends who have political views both diverse and greatly opposed to my own.  Those friends have the ability to put together a cogent argument.  Juvenile assertions and self contradictions do not call for respect.    

[John Schmidt]

• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
8 0 Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same.
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
•=2 0Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I just love the part where they will have access to your bank account, something only my wife has. Yet throughout the entire bill, there is nothing that addresses the very things mr. obama says is responsible for the burgeoning costs of healthcare.

[NCGhostrider]

I wonder what actually went thru the minds of the founding fathers at times...  They had some cohesion, a common ground, but can you imagine the opinions, the differences and the resulting arguments they had trying to hammer out our constitution, or even the original articles that our country lived off of for several years?

Similar differences might have been seen between Hamilton and Burr....

One thing is for certain, failure is imminent in our country if we all agree, the diversity in thought has carried us this far, balance makes it work....  At times it will seem to go too far one way or the other, but the exact things we argue about here is perhaps a microcosm of what exists nationwide and I am sure we will survive.

Things are changing, mindsets are different, people are scared for some reason (in my opinion).  In my small town of 4500 the police are constantly being dispatched for calls that my great grandma would have handled at 83 years old.  On the other hand, if you tell someone NO loud enough, they will say you threatened them, and call the police to file charges... go figure.  And in case anyone is wondering, I have traveled to, and lived in other places much more populous than here, I used to think I was somebody... bahahha

I digress, and will end my ramblings... I enjoy a good thought provoking argument.  I prefer them in person, while drinking a cold drink, or at least a quality one,  smoking a cigar with the Valkyrie in the background (bike content). 

see ya,

Craig
NCGhostrider
99 I/S

[Strong Eagle]

So, interestingly, one person says the President "does not have America's best interest at heart" and the self appointed intellectual elite declares it is an attack on the President's patriotism.

Williow, you miss the point.  Chris is not complaining about his policies, he has stated that the man himself is out to undermine the country.  There is a big difference between the two.  Chris said "I (as well as many Americans) believe this man wants to destroy too much of what our country has stood for."  Note the WANTS TO DESTROY, Willow.  Tell me that you are going to disagree with the statement, "A man who wants to destroy much of what our country has stood for is not patriotic".
 
Now I've asked, and without answer, why Obama is out to destroy "much of what this country has stood for".  I don't get answers, I get attacked.  If even you cannot see the difference between attacking a politician's policies and his motives, then there isn't much hope.
 
See, the big difference here is that Chris is not debating the policies and politics of Obama, he says he is out to bring down the country.  And for all I have ever written about Bush, I have never accused him of trying to bring the country down.
 
And I'd really like to understand the mindset of people like Chris who see Obama as malevolent.

Yes, this is the first political post I have initiated in almost 3 years... and before those of you short on reading comprehension jump on this statement... I have posted many times in response... but this is the first political post in 3 years that I have initiated.

And, no, I never set myself up as the "self appointed intellectual elite".  You called me that.  Surely you of all people are not resorting to demagoguery... or do you want me to 'dumb down'?

[Strong Eagle]

On the other hard, those that frequent this board also know who you are, what you stand or don't stand for and can recount the many, many negative posts and bashing you have done on this board, not only to the former administration, but to members of this organization, as well.  I choose not to waste my valuable time on you or your challenges.

Oh yes... the bashing... I remember it all well.  Like the physical threats made against me on several occasions that were never removed (the old board).  Like the posts that called my wife a whore that were never removed (the old board).  Like the fellow that threatened to come to my house and shoot me (old board - and never removed).  Like all the bashing that has gone on against me on this board... because I hold views different than the majority here.  And the name calling... lessee... traitor, weak chicken, socialist, communist, and many more... your reading of events is narrow, MM... I've been pounded on far more than I have pounded.  So save me your diatribe about what a nasty fellow I am.  God bless.
 

[junior]

On the other hard, those that frequent this board also know who you are, what you stand or don't stand for and can recount the many, many negative posts and bashing you have done on this board, not only to the former administration, but to members of this organization, as well.  I choose not to waste my valuable time on you or your challenges.

Oh yes... the bashing... I remember it all well.  Like the physical threats made against me on several occasions that were never removed (the old board).  Like the posts that called my wife a whore that were never removed (the old board).  Like the fellow that threatened to come to my house and shoot me (old board - and never removed).  Like all the bashing that has gone on against me on this board... because I hold views different than the majority here.  And the name calling... lessee... traitor, weak chicken, socialist, communist, and many more... your reading of events is narrow, MM... I've been pounded on far more than I have pounded.  So save me your diatribe about what a nasty fellow I am.  God bless.
 

it might not be my place to say this but its just my oppinion, if you dont like it why do you keep comming back?

[junior]

and this is from my small side of my mind...................scott did this board if i remember right? tweeked it with somany options!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and the best option that i have found is the ignore button. cause this schoolyard fight is getting alittle out of hand IMO.the supposed threats on your life the whore wife comments or your retateded kids......................or just how small is your 5th appendage. like i said in the last post if you are so unhappy whith us why do you keep comming back? then whine when your getting picked on?

[Strong Eagle]

and this is from my small side of my mind..................

Is there any other side?

[junior]

yes but i dont think you really want to go there

[MP]

 Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

This one just came to light.  Don't you love it.  The government having access to your bank accounts, AND THE ABILITY TO WITHDRAW FUNDS, at will.

This turkey needs to be shot.  The whole thing.

I think where the destroy America comes in, is in bills like this.  This health care fiasco, the stimulus, the trillions of dollars of new debt.  Obama has racked up more defecit spending in 6 months, than all other presidents combined.

NOT including the trillion needed for health care, that they ADMIT.  It will be more.
And, they have other large bills to pass too.

We believe this massive change in America to a much more government dependent country, is destroying America as it has been since its founding.  Thus, because the president is pushing this, he is out to destroy America.

Isn't it amazing that Strong Eagle, who hurls personal attacks and name calling at will, is so thin skinned?  After reading the above, I thought maybe there was a fund being set up to help him out!  LOL

MP

[Chrisj CMA]

So, interestingly, one person says the President "does not have America's best interest at heart" and the self appointed intellectual elite declares it is an attack on the President's patriotism.

Now I've asked, and without answer, why Obama is out to destroy "much of what this country has stood for".  I don't get answers, I get attacked.  If even you cannot see the difference between attacking a politician's policies and his motives, then there isn't much hope.
 
See, the big difference here is that Chris is not debating the policies and politics of Obama, he says he is out to bring down the country.  And for all I have ever written about Bush, I have never accused him of trying to bring the country down.
 
And I'd really like to understand the mindset of people like Chris who see Obama as malevolent.

If you truly want to understand, then research, then you can check out these truths.  Anyone that can be tangled up like this and do the things this guy wants to do is simply a person that does not love America the way it is, he is someone that has been taught "other" ways......and has another vision for us, most of which we dont agree with. Look at the professors, and pastor he idolized for YEARS and YEARS

Acorn and affiliates Obama was the head Lawyer...he knows its a totally corrupt organization...voter fraud

Black Panthers.....If Bush let certain brute force organizations try to help his cause, certain people would have been all over that till this day...voter intimidation.

Look at the money.  Just research Goldman Saxs, the number of rich guys hooked in there that are in Obamas bed

Redistribution of wealth.  He admitted this is his goal.  HIS goal to make sure if you have made it in this country YOU PAY BIGTIME.  Now I have no problem paying more if I can afford to pay more, but then to take that money and give non citizens free healthcare.  Fund corruption and pornography...

The "healthcare" bill which is really a government control your life bill

International apology tours by all his high ranking people

The elected by other than honorable means:

The take over of the press to suit his purpose by the left side of the government

voter fraud to the extent we have not ever seen before and hardly  a word about it

His history of destroying all opponents by ANY means so there really is only one to vote for........sound very American?

Campaign lies that he has the personality to make believable.....OK, unsugar coated.  The man has no honor.....he can lie right to the very people that are trusting him to save them from their own laziness and get their votes and then turn from every promise in the blink of an eye and still smile that fake "I Gotcha" smile


Now.  I am not going to expound on these.  You said you wanted to understand, well these are a few of the topics that have me feeling the way I feel about the man.  you do your own research, and if you are fair about it you will agree with me more than you want to

[razor]

Chris, I totally with ya brother!!!

I don't know why Obama is doing what he is doing, it may be as simple as he believes all of that socialist/comunist utopia crap he learned from his father and in college, or it may be he just wants "whitey" to pay, like he learned from his preacher, or it could be he's just a power hungry man with a messaianic complex.  (actually it could be ALL of those reasons) Whatever the reasons, he is pushing spending and programs that the majority of the American people do not want.  Especially when the spending and programs are contrary to the US Constitution.  Seems to me, that's proof enough that he does not have America's best interest at heart. 

[Robert]

I believe Obama has so far shown a very poor start and has broken several promises including taxes which I posted a article here. This explains better than I could have typed it. Next he has taken out the restriction on abortions in foreign countries by funding planed parent hoods programs. His stimulus package has not helped me or most Americans but the high wage earners. In fact has saddled the US with unprecedented debt which will eventually take the money out of our pockets. The program put together for people to save their houses has turned into credit counseling instead of actual financial support. Also there is no penalty or rules for banks to stop foreclosing on homes or even negotiating with people to keep them. Forcing many to let the houses go even though they do have quite a bit invested in them. If houses started the problem why not just help people renegotiate their loans. Also now all the foreclosed houses are going to people that can bid on them in bulk lots HUMMMM who do you suppose has that kind of money? When the market goes up and these houses become worth something more who do you think is going to come out on top? He against having guns and is trying his best to restrict them. The Democratically controlled Congress has said that if the Republicans dont go along with them on this health care then they will pass it anyway.
The campaign team is intent upon protecting a pledge driven by its 2008 campaign polls: Mr. Obama promised never to raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 a year to avoid being labeled a tax-and-spend liberal.
Even so, Mr. Obama has already broken his no-new-taxes pledge. On Feb. 4, Mr. Obama signed a $33 billion cigarette tax increase, which fell disproportionately on lower- and middle-income individuals. And the “cap and trade” energy bill, approved by the House on June 26, is a tax on anyone who owns a light switch, uses a car key, or has bought anything manufactured, shipped or sold in the U.S.
The House version of Mr. Obama’s health-care—excuse me, “health-insurance”—reform already has four taxes that will largely be paid by people making less than $250,000 a year. There’s $8.2 billion in taxes for using health savings accounts and other tax-free medical savings vehicles to purchase over-the-counter drugs. There’s an 8% tax on employers who don’t offer insurance: The Congressional Budget Office says workers in those businesses would pay the $163 billion cost via lost wages.
There’s a 2.5% “Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage” in the House bill that applies to people who either don’t have insurance or whose policies the government deems inadequate. Finally, there’s a $2 billion “Comparative Effectiveness Research Tax” on all private and “public option” insurance policies.
If some version of ObamaCare is passed, the president will break his tax pledge several more times while adding trillions to the deficit, dismantling the best elements of our health-care system and slashing Medicare by hundreds of billions of dollars.
There are no polling data or focus groups on earth that can help Mr. Obama out of this jam. He has set in motion events he appears unable to control and commitments he cannot keep. Great communicators succeed when the ideas they are communicating are sound. Tax-and-spend liberalism doesn’t work, no matter how pretty its package.
 He has pushed so hard on this health care bill creating such a hype to pass so fast and told senators not to read it but sign it knowing full well the problems with it. Also the cronies he appointed into positions, and as heads of his campaign to get elected if you combined their rap sheets and indictments and failure to pay taxes would be so long that it would rival the best of criminals. So with all that said and without name calling or all the other stuff, My conclusion is either Obama doesn't have the best interest of the people of this country at heart or he is totally clueless. Either way I didn't vote for him and was really worried about the outcome but was willing to give him a chance. CHANCE OVER!!!!!!!!!!

[Puffs Daddy]

  I have not read the health care bill nor do I intend to. It is being written by lawyers and nothing they do is ever simple or transparent as Mr. O would have us believe. But if 1 percent of what is listed above is true it is a mockery of the American way of life and an insult to every citizen.

Well, then, you needn't worry. It doesn't meet the 1% test.

[razor]

  I have not read the health care bill nor do I intend to. It is being written by lawyers and nothing they do is ever simple or transparent as Mr. O would have us believe. But if 1 percent of what is listed above is true it is a mockery of the American way of life and an insult to every citizen.

Well, then, you needn't worry. It doesn't meet the 1% test.

Puffs Daddy, are you saying that what John Schmidt posted, regarding the current versions of the health care bill is false?  Because based on what I have read, its all true!  You are either speaking in ignorance or just reapeating Obama lies!

[Scanner]

[ Like all the bashing that has gone on against me on this board... because I hold views different than the majority here.  

Strong Eagle, don't assume your views are that different from the majority here. But they are different than the 5 or 6 posters who continually put political stuff on this motorcycle board to try and get affirmation of their views.  

The majority just don't care to get involved in the mess.

[RedValk]

Mr. Eagle...you took EVERY opportunity to "smear" our past president, call him names, and question his patriotism on a regular basis!  (And you STILL do)!

I challenge you to find any post I ever made that questioned Bush's patriotism.  As for calling him a moron and other names, I proudly plead guilty.

I will not waste my time nor my energy dealing with you or any of your challenges, Mr. Eagle.  Those that frequent this board and attend the many events across the country, as I do, know me, know who I am and what I stand for.  On the other hard, those that frequent this board also know who you are, what you stand or don't stand for and can recount the many, many negative posts and bashing you have done on this board, not only to the former administration, but to members of this organization, as well.  I choose not to waste my valuable time on you or your challenges.

Like I said before...it was the pot calling the kettle black, and I stand behind what I said in the previous post.

+1 

[RedValk]

I challenge you to find any post I ever made that questioned Bush's patriotism.  As for calling him a moron and other names, I proudly plead guilty.

So, interestingly, one person says the President "does not have America's best interest at heart" and the self appointed intellectual elite declares it is an attack on the President's patriotism.  Another, perhaps the "intellectual elite" himself, publicly announces that another president lied and led the country into war for his own selfish purposes.  He also repeatedly misrepresented the president's intellectual status, but insists there was no attack on that president's patriotism.

Anyone else having a problem following this alleged logic?

It's a day for firsts.  Someone today gave up the right to insist that he has never initiated a political thread.

I have a lot of respect for some of my friends who have political views both diverse and greatly opposed to my own.  Those friends have the ability to put together a cogent argument.  Juvenile assertions and self contradictions do not call for respect.    

+1 

[John Schmidt]

[ Like all the bashing that has gone on against me on this board... because I hold views different than the majority here.  

Strong Eagle, don't assume your views are that different from the majority here. But they are different than the 5 or 6 posters who continually put political stuff on this motorcycle board to try and get affirmation of their views.  

The majority just don't care to get involved in the mess.

Sorry young fella, but don't flatter yourself into thinking you're in the majority.

[valkmc]

I wonder what actually went thru the minds of the founding fathers at times...  They had some cohesion, a common ground, but can you imagine the opinions, the differences and the resulting arguments they had trying to hammer out our constitution, or even the original articles that our country lived off of for several years?

Similar differences might have been seen between Hamilton and Burr....

One thing is for certain, failure is imminent in our country if we all agree, the diversity in thought has carried us this far, balance makes it work....  At times it will seem to go too far one way or the other, but the exact things we argue about here is perhaps a microcosm of what exists nationwide and I am sure we will survive.

Things are changing, mindsets are different, people are scared for some reason (in my opinion).  In my small town of 4500 the police are constantly being dispatched for calls that my great grandma would have handled at 83 years old.  On the other hand, if you tell someone NO loud enough, they will say you threatened them, and call the police to file charges... go figure.  And in case anyone is wondering, I have traveled to, and lived in other places much more populous than here, I used to think I was somebody... bahahha

I digress, and will end my ramblings... I enjoy a good thought provoking argument.  I prefer them in person, while drinking a cold drink, or at least a quality one,  smoking a cigar with the Valkyrie in the background (bike content). 

see ya,

Craig
NCGhostrider
99 I/S

I agree that politics have gotten so far from reality that our fore fathers would most likely be amazed. In the early days politicians seved in office w/o pay because they thought as the upper class (which they all were) they owed it to the country and working class. They actually made decisions about our country that hurt them financially but were better for humanity. Think congress would do that today? The population of the US would not do that, vote for something that makes their live a little more difficult to help others or make the US stronger. Today it is all about what can the country, my fellow americans can do for me. (not everyone of course).

After reading the bill I am not happy with it either, however the numbers in our country don't lie, even the oppisition to the the bill estimates 40-50 million Americans w/o insurance and/or health care. I know some say to bad for them and I was like thta most of my life also. However working in a public school has changed me, Kids do not start on an even playing field, I really don't care about horror stories but I see them every day.

I say lets put aside the who is right and who is wrong, stop blaming people for the state of our health care and come up with something good for most people. In a country as great as this one with resources as plentiful as ours we should not be 50th (estimates of 40th to 50th abound) in life expectancy in the world.

http://www.examiner.com/x-9303-Miami-Health-Care-Examiner~y2009m6d1-US-residents-do-not-have-highest-worldwide-life-expectancy

http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa042000b.htm

[Scanner]

Shcmidt proves my point. Because a very small group of like-minded folks continually reaffirm each others views they think they are a majority.  Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.  

But keep on keepin on, it's always good for a grin!

[Jeff K]

Shcmidt proves my point. Because a very small group of like-minded folks continually reaffirm each others views they think they are a majority.  Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.  

But keep on keepin on, it's always good for a grin!

"very small"??  

[RedValk]

On the other hard, those that frequent this board also know who you are, what you stand or don't stand for and can recount the many, many negative posts and bashing you have done on this board, not only to the former administration, but to members of this organization, as well.  I choose not to waste my valuable time on you or your challenges.

Oh yes... the bashing... I remember it all well.  Like the physical threats made against me on several occasions that were never removed (the old board).  Like the posts that called my wife a whore that were never removed (the old board).  Like the fellow that threatened to come to my house and shoot me (old board - and never removed).  Like all the bashing that has gone on against me on this board... because I hold views different than the majority here.  And the name calling... lessee... traitor, weak chicken, socialist, communist, and many more... your reading of events is narrow, MM... I've been pounded on far more than I have pounded.  So save me your diatribe about what a nasty fellow I am.  God bless.
 

it might not be my place to say this but its just my oppinion, if you dont like it why do you keep comming back?

+ 1

i spent 20+ years of my life....defending MY country in the military....so EVERYONE....can have the freedoms they have. All the great freedoms we enjoy. And i'm glad we all  have the freedom to speak our minds........

I've met MANY of the fine people on this board...between all the events i attend. But.....there are a few of you....that i will probably never meet face to face....and perhaps that's just as well.  While i don't see eye to eye with every issue in life with every single person here...i can honestly say the VAST majority i've met....and again...i've met a lot of you here........the VAST majoirty we can put our differences aside and realize we have a lot in common.

but there are the few....and the list is SO SMALL....that i'd just as soon not see again or ever meet. Sorry, that's just the way it is. One person on this thread is on that list....not naming any names....just admitting that is the case.  No doubt, the feeling might be mutual?

I'm happy to be here in the good old US of A. I've lived in several other countries during my career in the military, and been to just about all of them during travel performing my duties for the US govenment . and i can honestly say, there's NO WAY i'd live in ANY OTHER country than this one. Flawed as things may be here...now...or in the past, no way i'm living in some other place. no way..........

I should bow out of this conversation now, no doubt. Like most posts about politics, it's going NOWHERE...and will come to no good (though the beating the dead horse gif is a good one...i've saved that!). Just like discussion of religion, but probably even more so, discussing politics just ALWAYS seems to lead to no good. i typically don't discuss religion or politics....except with VERY good friends...and then ....very carefully. i probably should have stuck to that policy. (in fact, i won't be surprised if i wind up deleting this post???). I DO HOWEVER, QUITE OFTEN DISCUSS THE THIRD DEADLY TOPIC..........SEX. And some good has come out of that on occassion  

[PAVALKER]

I think if the moderators are going to lock the poll that is related to this post, then this post should be locked and deleted.  

Censorship should work both ways......       Unless of course the moderators are operating on the "this is my ball and we will play the game by only my rules"      

JMO.......  

[stormrider]

[ Like all the bashing that has gone on against me on this board... because I hold views different than the majority here.  

Strong Eagle, don't assume your views are that different from the majority here. But they are different than the 5 or 6 posters who continually put political stuff on this motorcycle board to try and get affirmation of their views.  

The majority just don't care to get involved in the mess.

Several thoughts here:

So Scanner, as I read your reply, how do you figure you are in the majority, not that holding a majority makes a person right one way or the other?

There are tens of thousands of memebers in this club and I don't have a figure as to how many are signed up on this board. I am sure admin can supply us with that info. It seems that only a couple hundred ever post any comments here
and then no more than maybe a 150-200 visitors per day. And if most members don't respond to a post, which the number of views tells you that, how do you figure a majority on any subject, let alone a political post.

Some people are like what Al Bundy (of Married With Children) said of himself in a re-run the other night , "damn, I just like to argue."  Then some like to inform or try to shed some light on certain subjects. Then others just like laughing  at all the childish name calling, others are disgusted by it  , many just ignore it and go on their way. My work load has been slow so I spend some time reading most all the posts and make comments when I feel it is appropriate. And Scanner, much to your dismay  ??? , I don't need affirmation from anyone here or your insults  as to my comments, my intentions or my integrity. You obviously don't know me  at all so how could you know my intentions on anything. And I like what someone said here the other day, don't say something here that you wouldn't say to my face  .

Hitler  convinced a whole nation he was right which led to the deaths of millions. Are any of us absolutely  right on everything we say or believe? And what makes us right, because we believe it to be so or because someone affirms us? Unless we know the thoughts of a man how do we know their intentions? Usually by their actions or inaction. Well, hope all have a blessed day. 

[Strong Eagle]

Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

Hello??  Leaving out the rest of the nonsense you posted, the government ALREADY has realtime access for electronic funds transfer (if you grant it) to post your damn social security check each month?  Same if you elect to do so with your IRS refund.  What planet are you on, anyway?
 
Don't tell me you think this means that the government is going to remove funds from your account.  You don't believe that, do you? You have been taking your meds, right?
 

[PAVALKER]

Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

Hello??  Leaving out the rest of the nonsense you posted, the government ALREADY has realtime access for electronic funds transfer (if you grant it) to post your damn social security check each month?  Same if you elect to do so with your IRS refund.  What planet are you on, anyway?
 
Don't tell me you think this means that the government is going to remove funds from your account.  You don't believe that, do you? You have been taking your meds, right?
 

Yes, IF the individuals authorize direct deposit of their SS, Pension, Tax Refunds etc etc, then the Government has realtime access to your accounts for electronic funds transfers.  And, YES, by doing so, you also authorize the government to remove funds from your account.  The government can and has removed funds from accounts without actual notification ......   

[Strong Eagle]

Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

Hello??  Leaving out the rest of the nonsense you posted, the government ALREADY has realtime access for electronic funds transfer (if you grant it) to post your damn social security check each month?  Same if you elect to do so with your IRS refund.  What planet are you on, anyway?
 
Don't tell me you think this means that the government is going to remove funds from your account.  You don't believe that, do you? You have been taking your meds, right?
 

Yes, IF the individuals authorize direct deposit of their SS, Pension, Tax Refunds etc etc, then the Government has realtime access to your accounts for electronic funds transfers.  And, YES, by doing so, you also authorize the government to remove funds from your account.  The government can and has removed funds from accounts without actual notification ......   

And the point is?  Seems pretty clear that MP is using this line to 'prove' that government is taking over our lives when the fact is you enter into a contract for direct deposit which contains provisions for removing deposits made in error.  Don't tell me you think it means that the government can remove funds carte blanche?  You don't really think that, do you?

[PAVALKER]

You really can't be all that supportive and believing they won't if they wanted to, can you?

Yes, if they can make withdrawls on your account for deposits that they made in error, without letting you know, then they can make withdrawls on your account in error, or intentionally,  just as easily.  I have had withdrawls made that were in error and were not caused by an initial deposit error.    So if direct deposit is authorized.... direct withdrawl is also authorized.  And I believe they can take it even if you don't authorize it......   just ask Bernie Madof and his wife.