Alternator blues continue

[therapist]

So, ended up getting the alternator tested and the auto electric shop found an "intermittent short in the rotor", supposedly common to these rotors.  They put all new innards in, brushes and bearings and cleaned it all up.  BUT, without notifying me, put a used rotor in "to save you money".  The final bill was $120.  For $35 more I could have bought a
"new" Amazon special, but I went to school with the owners wife, so didn't want to make a big deal of it.

Problem is, while pulling the alternator was like delivering a baby (very tight space to work, only one sweet spot/angle to get it out).  It turns out, putting in back in is like returning the baby from whence it came.  I gave it 15 minutes of cussing and back breaking tries.  Before I get angry and try to force it and screw something up, took a break.  Any tricks I'm missing?  I loosened the center cover so it can move it up a bit, but I fear it may have to be removed completely, which I would rather not do and end up with a seat removal issue (others have said it can be a pain).

[rhinor61]

I feel your pain...

There may be other ways, but what worked for me was to remove the wire terminal wire stud (18)
on the back of the alternator reattaching it once the alternator was dropped in, before bolted in.

How do the rubber dampers look?  did the move or come out during the initial removal. (2)
Remember the rubber dampers are split and the spit is where the connector  (3) on the alternator
go between.
Did you change the O-ring (28)

The clearence issue is finding enough room to get the back dropped down Firsth so you can slide it forward toward the enging.

Make sure you dont knock off the fuel tank vent line...

I have a belly fuel tank, so I had the extra fuel line to deal with...  Take your time...

It will go back in, just dont bang on it or pry on it...

reference..
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2000/GL1500CF+AC/ALTERNATOR/parts.html

[therapist]

When I took it out, I disconnected both wires after I pulled it out, so I assumed I should wire it up before putting it back in.  Those damn wires are on the backside when installed, so could be difficult to connect after the alternator is installed.  Might be part of the issue though.

No, didn't replace the O ring,  but it looks like new, just put some bulb grease on it after
I greased the connections.

I can get it in far enough to drop down, but the angle is too steep to insert it in the dampers straight, and I don't want to mess them up.  They didn't come out when I took it off, and look fine.  Just 38K on the bike. 

I took it out by angling the rear of the alternator toward the center of the bike, so I assumed I would put it back the same way, thinking now maybe it should be reversed?  I hate stuff like this, where it should be simple but it isn't.  Honda engineers should have to do these kind of jobs to see if these bikes are user/mechanic friendly.  But then, they want you to take it to the dealer to have it fixed, don't they.   

[Chrisj CMA]

you were right about connecting the wires as soon as you lay the alternator on the frame.  Next point the rear of the alternator down and toward the center of the bike (like at the front of the rear tire)

This angle you have the alternator in is crucial because as you tip it into its opening it can bind so bad that you cannot get it in or out so move very slowly.  It either goes in EASY or the angle is wrong.  At the first sign that its not going in STOP and change the angle.  

After a couple tries it will drop right in easy peasy.  After it drops into its opening STOP.  Get a mirror and a flashlight and get a look at where the dampeners are lined up, rotate the tabs to match and then push it in giving a gentle wiggle as you go and its in.

[therapist]

Don't suppose you want to take a quick ride north to MI to show me that 'easy peasy" angle 

I will keep playing and take breaks when I start to get frustrated.  There are so many damn hoses in the way, it makes for a frustrating job.  I was so proud of how I got it out with little difficulty, now I am paying for my smugness.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

Don't suppose you want to take a quick ride north to MI to show me that 'easy peasy" angle 

I will keep playing and take breaks when I start to get frustrated.  There are so many damn hoses in the way, it makes for a frustrating job.  I was so proud of how I got it out with little difficulty, now I am paying for my smugness.   

, don't worry you'll get it. Do it just like Chrisj CMA said.

[therapist]

I can't believe this is turning into a day long project.  I even called the alternator repair guy to see if anything was changed that would affect the size of the case.  I saw some unused threads on the screws that hold the case together, plus they cleaned and painted that green band and it is now black.  I'm just bound and determined  to find evidence that this thing grew since I took it out.     A few more tries and I am done for the day, maybe a fresh eye tomorrow.  Problem is, my daughter is visiting from out of state and we always take a ride when she is here...so a little pressure.   

[Skinhead]

SpraySome Wd40 On The DamperS ItHelps ThingsSlide.

[therapist]

I can't even get to the point where I can line it up so that I can engage the dampers.
The back end hits that cross member and stops it from evenly aligning.  Maybe I am being too gentle.  Will try again after dinner, when it cools off some more.

[bassman]

Hey Ron,

I'm "assuming" you have the bike on the center stand?  Is the bike on the ground and you're hunched over trying to do this?  Maybe
if you can get the bike up in the air a little more and on the center stand so you're working at waist or chest level it might provide
a little different attack or at least be a little more comfortable in the process?  Hang in there buddy...slow but sure.  I've never done it
or seen it done but is always sounds like it either takes a little or a LOT of fiddling with it and all of a sudden it pops right in.

[therapist]

It's on the centerstand and I am sitting on a short stool, but you may have a good idea there.  I will try just sitting on my arse and see if I have a better line of sight.  Thanks, Neil!

One of these days I will just admit, I'm a bad mechanic.  The old girl has never been back to the dealer since brand new, hate to break my record now 

[KG]

set the alt next to where it goes with the wire connections like they were before you removed it. Does it look like everything will line up.

they may have clocked it when they put it back together and have the cases out of original alignment. You may have to take it apart to realign the cases.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I rank putting the alternator in right up there with that u-joint boot  ... Next time you need a alternator you can get a 1997 Goldwing alternator brand new for $218.00 shipped from HDL when they have the 10% off deal....Take the 3 bolts out and " clock " it to match the Valkyrie bolt pattern .... I don't think I would trust one of those cheap Flea-Bay one's esp since its such a bitch to get out and in.

[therapist]

I'm waving the white flag for today.  I was hoping maybe they DID clock it accidentally, but
it appears to have the same orientation, going by the wires.  I'm going to be steamed
if they did something different that would cause it to be a smidgen longer or a bolt sticking out further.  There just appears no way for it to fit so I can line it up.  Tomorrow is another day.  Thanks all!

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'm waving the white flag for today.  I was hoping maybe they DID clock it accidentally, but
it appears to have the same orientation, going by the wires.  I'm going to be steamed
if they did something different that would cause it to be a smidgen longer or a bolt sticking out further.  There just appears no way for it to fit so I can line it up.  Tomorrow is another day.  Thanks all!

It will go. It's just that it has to be lined up perfectly. Don't force it. Just try to put it at the angle you took it out at.

[Chrisj CMA]

Its all in the angle.....after pushing it onto the center where all those wires and hoses live you rotate it into position.  Think of backing a truck in a tight parking space you have to have the right approach angle or you must go forward a couple times before you back in

[therapist]

I'm going to give it another try today, but I swear I have attempted every angle there is.

[Chrisj CMA]

How is it going.....I thought I heard a faint yell out of some four letter words I didn't recognize.  Once that baby goes in you will be amazed that it was so easy when all previous attempts seemed so hard.

[therapist]

I was feeling a little under the weather today.  I did have the energy to spray some cinnamon into a fledgling bee hive in my rafters outdoors.  One bit my wife on the head yesterday and I didn't laugh, so that was good.  I put the cinnamon in a short hose and blew it in where they have been going in and out.  My neighbors already think I'm crazy, so no big deal.  It's supposed to make them take up residence elsewhere, we shall see.  

Then I had to reinstall a rebuilt carb into my lawn tractor, changed the oil (mostly gas in there because of a stuck needle...damn ethanol) and put in a new plug.  Purrs better now than when I bought her.  But now I have no excuse regarding the lawn.  So...just took a break to catch up on computer stuff and I am going to give the alternator another try before retiring for the evening.  Send me some good vibes!

[art]

I had mine rebuilt 6 years ago at a local shop that was supposed to be reliable, sure.  It weat out in a week and I had it done again and it lasted another week. It was done with used parts. I bought a new one from Honda and 80000 miles later it was still working. The point is I had to remove and install 3 times. It's not fun but can be done. It' the angle of the dangle, keep trying and good luck.

[old2soon]

What worked for me was putting the wires to the alt on AFTER the alt was installed. And trust me when I tell you the one that aims at the right side of the M/C installs easier from that side-think LONG 1/4 inch extension(s). Hope you git er done.   And once you do git er done-RIDE SAFE.

[therapist]

I have tried every suggestion, still no go.  I am wondering if when they put the new (used) rotor in, if it may have been bigger than the original and then the cases couldn't be put together as tight.

So, I have a big favor.  Anyone willing to measure that green stripe between the cases, it has an edge on each side so you should be able to get a precise measurement.  It will give me something to compare to this one, to see if mine is wider.  I am out of other theories and about ready to throw the bike in the trailer and forget about it.     Thanks for all your patience!    

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'll measure mine when I get home in an hour. 

[therapist]

Thanks Meathead...but never mind.  I just looked at it closely and the cases mat up tight with no gaps. I was thinking that ring was inside the cases, but it is up against the edges.  If that makes any sense. I've done a lot of maintenance to this bike and had some very frustrating moments, but this takes the cake.  And now, to think that they put a used part in and I may have to do this again in X amount of miles...

[Ricky-D]

Take the center cover off, where you can move it out of the way.

Also disconnect the wires.

Use some grease to hold the rubber pieces in the correct position.

Easy peasy.

***

[Chrisj CMA]

here's some pictures of my last install.  Maybe you can see the right angle or something that will click in for ya.

No alternator

This is where I hook up the wires

Angled in ready to rotate into position

In position ready to roll........

[therapist]

Wish I had the pic between the 3rd and 4th one, that is where it won't line up.  But thanks!

[Chrisj CMA]

Wish I had the pic between the 3rd and 4th one, that is where it won't line up.  But thanks!

After pic#3 pretend the alternator is on a stick stuck right up into at the center.  You just rotate it on that stick and twist it so the tabs line up for the bolts .  As you rotate it the fins just barely clear the case of the transmission, but as it does you have to pull the back of the alternator around to get it to straighten up for its docking with the rubber bumper thinggys

Good luck

[The emperor has no clothes]

Sorry got sidetracked on a petcock rebuild. 7/8" is what measure. Just read the other posts, try to mimic chrisj's pics. It's tight but it will go. Anybody to come help you before you start kicking the dog? best of luck

[The emperor has no clothes]

Also just thought, do you have the noise suppressor on yours? If so I unbolted mine until the alt. was in for a little more room.

[therapist]

Yep...7/8's  I just keep looking for a reason this isn't working.  Over the years I have done a couple complete rear end/drive line maintenance jobs, so I have had this bike in many pieces and was able to get it back together again.  THIS.  Is making me crazy.  

Oh, no noise suppressor...I think that is just on InterStates.

[3W-lonerider]

I would double check the clocking of that alternator.
I bought one a couple of years ago and had the same problem.
I didn't realize  it was clocked for a 1500 wing. ( mainly didn't pay attention )
I got it in with a lot of prying and wiggling then realized the bolt that holds the output wire was sticking straight up.
till I got that thing back out I thought I was going to break the back of the engine with the 3 foot prybar I was using to get it out.
if it isn't clocked right it will fight you like you won't believe.
double and triple check that clocking..sounds like it's not right.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I would double check the clocking of that alternator.
I bought one a couple of years ago and had the same problem.
I didn't realize  it was clocked for a 1500 wing. ( mainly didn't pay attention )
I got it in with a lot of prying and wiggling then realized the bolt that holds the output wire was sticking straight up.
till I got that thing back out I thought I was going to break the back of the engine with the 3 foot prybar I was using to get it out.
if it isn't clocked right it will fight you like you won't believe.
double and triple check that clocking..sounds like it's not right.

Excellent idea. Therapist look at Chrisj's first pic and see if yours is oriented that way.

[therapist]

Nope...did the clocking check a while back at someones suggestion, I WISH that was the issue.
I have taken every suggestion offered.  Luckily a bike doesn't need an alternator to run, so I was able to get the bike back in it's little trailer home.  I guess I will try again tomorrow, but I have no idea what I can do differently.  Still trying to figure out why they painted that green stripe black...I just can't help thinking the alternator repair guys did something, but there is nothing that is different that I can see.  Just want to blame this on something/sombody  

I am soaking it overnight in a vat of KY Jelly...I am desperate!

[The emperor has no clothes]

Once you get that sucker in there it's going to be like " well that was easy" . I feel your pain, I think the thing to do is regroup and start fresh .

[R J]

Nope...did the clocking check a while back at someones suggestion, I WISH that was the issue.
I have taken every suggestion offered.  Luckily a bike doesn't need an alternator to run, so I was able to get the bike back in it's little trailer home.  I guess I will try again tomorrow, but I have no idea what I can do differently.  Still trying to figure out why they painted that green stripe black...I just can't help thinking the alternator repair guys did something, but there is nothing that is different that I can see.  Just want to blame this on something/sombody   

The black stripe doesnn't have a thing to do with it.

The repair shop paints the armature when done working on it, and most shops use black paint out of a rattle can.

Print off those pictures and try it again.

The one where he refers to a straight stick and rotate the alternator.    Get a dowel, stand it on end, and visualize the alternator rotating about 45* in a circle on the stick.     Basically that is the secret in my book to get the alternator in place.

Don't get rambuncious on the deal, all that does is get ya in trouble.

Follow the pictures to a 'T' and it will slide in like it is supposed to.

When we pulled the alternator on MGM to check the brushes a few years ago,  I pulled it, with no problem.

My son went to put it back in and you could have heard him cussing for 10 miles in either direction.

He called me and was just a ranting and a raving.    Every so often I'd say yes or yah while he talked.    My answers made no sense to his rambling.

Told him to go take a chill out pill and I'd get out tomorrow or the next day to put it back in.   That settled him down.

Amber his little tool chaser, parts chaser, and bill creator was setting there looking at it and stuck it in the hole, moved it this way and that way and clunk it went in.

OH, talk about one peesed off person, he was.

She told him she had watched me take it out and just reversed the procedure.

Since that time, both of them have now removed and installed 4 alternators in 4 different Valkyrie's.

So, I'd say if a little fully clothed 98# dripping wet Amber can put one in, anyone can do it.   I got to admit however, she is the shop disc brake replacement gal, oil/filter changed, both auto and diesel engines.   Tire rotator, wheel bearing packer and etc.

 

[therapist]

I appreciate the encouragement, but I think I am past that point.  I, seriously, have yanked and pushed this thing into every possible position.  Short of playing some Barry White music, I have tried every way to get my alternator into that opening. There is no way that back end will come up so that everything lines up.  I won't quit, but I really feel something is unique to my situation, or it would have slipped in by now.

RJ-ask Amber if she wants to take a little road trip northeast  

[Bighead]

Just a thought here if you are Sure you have tried EVERY angle possible. Do you think the Alternator shop gave you back the correct alternator?

[therapist]

I think so, it looks identical to all the pictures and the wiring/connectors are
all the same.  Even the green stripe is showing through the black paint they
sprayed on.  I even checked back with them to ask that question, they were sure
all was the same as I brought in, other than the inside stuff they changed.

I just checked, it has a red label LR140 718C  Made in Japan   Hitachi 

[R J]

I appreciate the encouragement, but I think I am past that point.  I, seriously, have yanked and pushed this thing into every possible position.  Short of playing some Barry White music, I have tried every way to get my alternator into that opening. There is no way that back end will come up so that everything lines up.  I won't quit, but I really feel something is unique to my situation, or it would have slipped in by now.

RJ-ask Amber if she wants to take a little road trip northeast  

Northeast where?