Universal Joint Rubber Boot

[BobB]

What is the combination of cuss words one has to shout out to get the rubber boot seated over the swing arm drive tube?  Never mind, I could not enter the ones I uttered on this board.  I would be banned for life. 

I decided to inspect my universal joint as it has not been done in the last seven years.  It looked/felt ok, but when it came to reassembly the snag was that d@&$ boot.  Started this yesterday, worked for well over an hour, gave up and looked here for advice.  Tried the roll up approach several times to no avail.  I finally found that the swing arm must be up as far as it will go, a little grease on the edge of the boot helps and it still takes a lot of perseverance.  That translates to over two more hours. 

[Jess from VA]

Only two hours?  Took me an entire afternoon.... and I had to take several time outs to recover my good nature.

I think to just eyeball the Ujoint, taking the boot off the trans side only may be the better part of valor. Even if it is harder to eyeball the joint that way.

[Firefighter]

Then that grease likes to transfer to your fingers that can almost barley reach where you need, now your fingers are slippin on the boot. Then the wife comes out to complain about some insignificant little problem with a curtain holder or something!

Enough to make a preacher cuss!  Firefighter

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

I've read the horror stories about this. When I did my inspection of the universal joint and was reinstalling the boot. I used NO grease and the roll method. I was furtunate I guess because it took about 5 minutes. Glad I didn't have the trouble I here about and have no idea why it went smooth for me. 

[BobB]

I was furtunate I guess because it took about 5 minutes. Glad I didn't have the trouble I here about and have no idea why it went smooth for me. 

I am looking for some guidance to make it easier next time.  The roll method did not work for me, but I was installing the old boot.  I believe I have read that replacing the boot makes it easier, the boot is probably more supple.  I know that I will start by kneeling down beside the bike and offering a prayer...

[The emperor has no clothes]

I was furtunate I guess because it took about 5 minutes. Glad I didn't have the trouble I here about and have no idea why it went smooth for me. 

I am looking for some guidance to make it easier next time.  The roll method did not work for me, but I was installing the old boot.  I believe I have read that replacing the boot makes it easier, the boot is probably more supple.  I know that I will start by kneeling down beside the bike and offering a prayer...

Not for me. I tried for 2 hours to put on a new boot with no luck. Took a break to regain my composure and looked over the old one real good. It looked fine, so I decided to try it. Went on in about 30 minutes.

[Black Dog]

I had the same experience you did, after toasting a pinion cup on the way home from InZane this past summer.  I believe it was Smokin' Joe that said "just go buy a new one"...  Well, after two days, and damaging the original, in the midst of all my cuss words (I tore it), I did buy a new one.

My 14 year old boot was stiff, and compared to the new one, it was as hard as a rock!

The new one went on in less than a half hour 

BTW...  New ones are about $15 

Black Dog

[hubcapsc]

You can put a new one on with one hand if you take the starter out.

There's no such thing as a free lunch though... it sucks to take the starter out.

-Mike

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

Last one I bought was around $ 14.00 .... They claim a new one goes back on much easier than a old one.

[Tfrank59]

Only two hours?  Took me an entire afternoon.... and I had to take several time outs to recover my good nature.

I think to just eyeball the Ujoint, taking the boot off the trans side only may be the better part of valor. Even if it is harder to eyeball the joint that way.

I'm getting ready to pull my rear wheel for the first time.  I've only had the bike five months, but I'm gonna put a rear tire on it, do the brake pads etc. etc. and of course clean and re-grease the splines. I'm thinking I also want to pull the driveshaft apart and look at that u-joint. After reading this now I'm starting to wonder if it's a can 'o worms I don't want to open.  Is this something I can check out without pulling everything apart once the wheel is off, or is taking the whole driveline and u-joint out for inspection a must-do?

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

Only two hours?  Took me an entire afternoon.... and I had to take several time outs to recover my good nature.

I think to just eyeball the Ujoint, taking the boot off the trans side only may be the better part of valor. Even if it is harder to eyeball the joint that way.

I'm getting ready to pull my rear wheel for the first time.  I've only had the bike five months, but I'm gonna put a rear tire on it, do the brake pads etc. etc. and of course clean and re-grease the splines. I'm thinking I also want to pull the driveshaft apart and look at that u-joint. After reading this now I'm starting to wonder if it's a can 'o worms I don't want to open.  Is this something I can check out without pulling everything apart once the wheel is off, or is taking the whole driveline and u-joint out for inspection a must-do?

You can't see it ( u-joint ) without removing the boot. Go buy a new boot first its the best $14.00 you will ever spend.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Only two hours?  Took me an entire afternoon.... and I had to take several time outs to recover my good nature.

I think to just eyeball the Ujoint, taking the boot off the trans side only may be the better part of valor. Even if it is harder to eyeball the joint that way.

I'm getting ready to pull my rear wheel for the first time.  I've only had the bike five months, but I'm gonna put a rear tire on it, do the brake pads etc. etc. and of course clean and re-grease the splines. I'm thinking I also want to pull the driveshaft apart and look at that u-joint. After reading this now I'm starting to wonder if it's a can 'o worms I don't want to open.  Is this something I can check out without pulling everything apart once the wheel is off, or is taking the whole driveline and u-joint out for inspection a must-do?

I don't know if it's necessary to look at the u-joint, but I would moly paste the pinion cup and shaft.

[Jess from VA]

I don't know if it's necessary to look at the u-joint, but I would moly paste the pinion cup and shaft.

Assuming you don't have say 100K on the bike (and maybe even then), I tend to agree.  Ujoints last until they don't; from the first few crunching, thumping noises or thumps in the pegs, until they are toast is not long, and you are lucky to limp home or to a repair place.  If you have no symptoms at all, your Ujoint is probably fine.  And, assuming there's no symptoms, looking at it tells you nothing, you have to pull it out and fiddle with it to see if it is failing.

That said, I would order a spare to have on hand (and maybe a new set of wheel dampners), if you are keeping the bike.  

If the damn thing had a grease zerk to squirt it would be worth the trouble of getting in there, but it doesn't.

[Jack B]

My U joint went out at 89,000 miles. But I was home and yes it was making noise. I used the old boot it was a pain but it didn't take too long.

[Jess from VA]

Mine blew up at about 60-5K, but some are still going at 150K.  But it was fine... right up to when it wasn't.

And one more thing.  If you don't get the boot back correctly or puncture it getting it back on, you have done the worst possible thing to shorten its life (add water).  (Lay off power washers too)

[Tfrank59]

Okay, this all sounds like good advice pointing me towards leaving the thing alone. I'll buy a spare u-joint and a new boot.  my bikes only got 32K and I don't hear or feel anything that leads me to believe there's a problem with it at the moment.  Thanks for the advice.

[Crackerborn]

I tried to test the u-joint when I pulled the rear wheel to go darkside and service the splines last winter after only getting about 50 miles on the Girl when I picked her up in November '13. It isn't the combination of foul words but the volume of utterance to get that @&$$ boot back on. Not that I did any good as far as inspection, 16 years and only 32k (had 30k on the clock when I got her) and it was toast this summer. I don't expect to need another anytime soon so I won't even look at it when I service the rear end this winter.

[pancho]

I developed a vibration early last summer on the way home from a day trip. I was convinced the u joimt was the culprit and removed it. After checking it out, I decided it was not the problem and put it back in and attempted to reinstall the old boot. After messing with it a couple of hours, I could not get it on, so I ordered a new one. While waiting on the new one to arrive, I took the u joint back out to examine it for the possibility of rebuilding at some time in the future. While I had it clamped up in a vice I put some torque on it with a pair of channel locks and felt a bit of play,, it was the problem,, almost missed it.

When I received the new one, there was a night and day difference as the old one was hard as a rock compared. What worked for me was having the swing arm straight, putting the small end on first, putting the top of the big end on, and pulling the big end all the way on from under the bike. Seems like it wasn't much of a problem,, but things always seem better than they were when looking back on them....

[Tfrank59]

I developed a vibration early last summer on the way home from a day trip. I was convinced the u joimt was the culprit and removed it. After checking it out, I decided it was not the problem and put it back in and attempted to reinstall the old boot. After messing with it a couple of hours, I could not get it on, so I ordered a new one. While waiting on the new one to arrive, I took the u joint back out to examine it for the possibility of rebuilding at some time in the future. While I had it clamped up in a vice I put some torque on it with a pair of channel locks and felt a bit of play,, it was the problem,, almost missed it.

When I received the new one, there was a night and day difference as the old one was hard as a rock compared. What worked for me was having the swing arm straight, putting the small end on first, putting the top of the big end on, and pulling the big end all the way on from under the bike. Seems like it wasn't much of a problem,, but things always seem better than they were when looking back on
them....

Thanks for the insight especially about an easier way to put a new boot on when reinstalling.  I'm wondering, how many miles were on your bike when you started feeling the vibration which caused you to suspect the U joint?   

[Bigwolf]

I did a U-joint inspection at 25K on my standard when I noticed a vibration and found a nearly dead shaft and pinion cup.  The U-joint felt good but 2 of the bearing caps were turning in the yoke.  That U-joint is now laying under my workbench for emergencies only.

I do not know what all the fuss is about with that boot.  I bought a new one since that is often suggested.  It is on the shelf just in case I ever need it.  I have had the old boot off and put back on 3 times now.  I do spray the inside of the old boot with silicone lube just before putting it on.  Working that old boot in around the U-joint and getting it fitted on the swing arm and engine has never taken more than 10 minutes.  I do have the swing arm parallel to the floor.

Bigwolf

[pancho]

I developed a vibration early last summer on the way home from a day trip. I was convinced the u joimt was the culprit and removed it. After checking it out, I decided it was not the problem and put it back in and attempted to reinstall the old boot. After messing with it a couple of hours, I could not get it on, so I ordered a new one. While waiting on the new one to arrive, I took the u joint back out to examine it for the possibility of rebuilding at some time in the future. While I had it clamped up in a vice I put some torque on it with a pair of channel locks and felt a bit of play,, it was the problem,, almost missed it.

When I received the new one, there was a night and day difference as the old one was hard as a rock compared. What worked for me was having the swing arm straight, putting the small end on first, putting the top of the big end on, and pulling the big end all the way on from under the bike. Seems like it wasn't much of a problem,, but things always seem better than they were when looking back on
them....

Thanks for the insight especially about an easier way to put a new boot on when reinstalling.  I'm wondering, how many miles were on your bike when you started feeling the vibration which caused you to suspect the U joint?   

I had about 48K when the u joint started to give me problems.

[Tfrank59]

Okay, good to know. Thanks.

[uturn]

i put photos of the prefered two minute boot replacement technique on a valk facebook page, i will see if i can put photos here, but in the meanwhile what you do is fold the swingarm side of the boot back, put it around the ujoint, then use the tabs to plop it in place. its pretty simple. i guess we need a shop talk section for this...

[uturn]

ok i think i got them. fold it back, push the tabs up to the last ridge, wiggle the boot around the shaft, and then pull each tab over the swingarm cover. this will put the ridge that fits around the cut outside the swingarm tube aft of the cut so you will probably need to wiggle it out a little to make sure its seated and waterproof...

[uturn]

obviously its an old dirty boot, but im still waiting for my replacement to show up...ill try to get better photos when its time to actually put it back together...