Need suggestions re. caliper bleeder not moving.

[John Schmidt]

This is on my GL1200 project. Was able to remove the frozen pistons by drilling through the bottom of each piston with a size "O" (that's "oh") bit which is the size used for a 3/8-16 bolt thread tap. Didn't use a bolt, just let the tap go through until it hit the bottom of the piston cylinder, then slowly continue turning and the piston finally broke loose. After removing the pistons I needed to remove the bleeder. BIG problem; wouldn't move. Tried heat, bearcat piss (a/k/a penetrating oil), tapping it side to side and on top, all to no avail. Using small vise grips to hopefully prevent snapping it off....that didn't prevent anything. It snapped off nearly flush. Next I tried my screw out kit, which did nothing but remove the very top edge. So I tried drilling out the remainder and all I ended up with is a hole down the center of the screw with the outer layer of it still fused to the caliper housing. For two reasons I was hoping to not have to buy a replacement caliper; first....you don't know if you're facing the same problem again, second....didn't want to spend the money.

So, I'm wondering if it's possible to drill it out to a larger diameter for a larger bleeder, and at the same time the bit would have to cut a new seat. Enlarging the diameter wouldn't be a problem, cutting a new seat at the right angle would. Anyone ever done it, the new hole would have to be dead on centered on the bleed passage at the bottom plus be the right angle. I'm sure a machine shop could do it and be perfect, but the cost of that would buy me a couple extra calipers. 

[old2soon]

John you'd know better than I would but maybe Grumpy has the tools? Hope you git that mess sorted out! Best laid plans yada yada!  RIDE SAFE.

[Ricky-D]

For all the time and money, you'd be better off getting a replacement.

They are plenty cheap used from Pinwall and you can call them to

insure they are workable with a return policy if they are not!

***

Heat probably would have been the best resource to get out the stuck bleeder.

[Chrisj CMA]

I like your idea of drilling and tapping for a larger fitting, I see no problem with that if you have the skills why not?  Besides, if you flub it up, then just go by one to replace it.......cant really lose

[pago cruiser]

Another option is to pick up a couple left handed drill bits from a specialty machine shop supply.  If you have enough meat left in the wall of the bleeder screw, forcing the bit to bind will sometimes break the threads free, and it spins right out.  If it does not work the first time, then you try again with the larger bit.

If it still doesn't spin out, then continue drilling until you are at the drill size for a tap.  Then you can run the tap through and clean the threads out.  If not then, there are a couple different styles of easy outs.  Failing that, it's ebay time.

Personally, I'd NOT drill out the bleeder threads for the next size bleeder screw.  You're right in that a new seat would probably be required.  While technically possible, I personally would not feel 100% comfortable that I could cut in a new seat PERFECT.  The brake system pressures are around 1000 psi.  It would be a VBT (very bad thing) to have it test fine, but in a OH SH!T stop with a full brake grip have the seat-to-bleeder seal surface fracture.  You would have ZERO front brake almost instantly.  A $50 ebay caliper would be a bargain in lieu of the unknown repercussions of cutting in a new seat.

I've rebuilt several old Honda calipers, and never seen the bleeder screw corroded in like that.  Was a good idea to run a tap thru the piston and literally crank them out.

Kinda late now, but on the pistons, a 100-125 psi air compressor has never failed with my projects, using the bleeder port as an inlet and a rubber tip on the air valve.  A trick I learned is that you first put a piece of metal (6" x 1" x 0.25" IIRC) in the place the disk usually resides (spanning both pistons), to keep whichever piston moves first from totally exiting the caliper at a good velocity. Then once one is free, push it back 1/4" or so, insert another piece of 0.25" metal to keep that piston in place, then hit the caliper with another air shot to free the second piston.  Then with both piston edges exposed you can pull them out with a set of vice grips.  The only issue is that if you hit the caliper with air without restraining the pistons, the first one to break free will literally fly 40'; if it hits your head in it's trajectory it WILL leave a mark...          

[John Schmidt]

I like your idea of drilling and tapping for a larger fitting, I see no problem with that if you have the skills why not?  Besides, if you flub it up, then just go by one to replace it.......cant really lose

My thoughts also Chris. I drilled it out with a smaller bit and it left just an outer shell...for lack of a better term. And it's still not coming out so today I'll try a bit large enough to take it out to a slightly larger bleeder. If I can keep from messing up the bottom where it seals off, it might work. If not, then as Ricky said.....I'll just find a good used one, there are plenty on Ebay. Really bugs me though.  

Pago Cruiser, I have a compressor and cranked it up to 150 psi, put a "stop" in place to hold the pistons then hit it with the air. No luck! Let it soak with penetrant overnight and tried again....no luck. Heated than tried it....no luck. When it came to using the tap to crank them out, it took an inordinate amount of pressure to break them loose. Since the cylinders and the pistons are quite pitted I think I'll just spring for a decent looking unit off the internet and hope I'm not faces with the same trouble.

[Tfrank59]

I like your idea of drilling and tapping for a larger fitting, I see no problem with that if you have the skills why not?  Besides, if you flub it up, then just go by one to replace it.......cant really lose

My thoughts also Chris. I drilled it out with a smaller bit and it left just an outer shell...for lack of a better term. And it's still not coming out so today I'll try a bit large enough to take it out to a slightly larger bleeder. If I can keep from messing up the bottom where it seals off, it might work. If not, then as Ricky said.....I'll just find a good used one, there are plenty on Ebay. Really bugs me though.  

Pago Cruiser, I have a compressor and cranked it up to 150 psi, put a "stop" in place to hold the pistons then hit it with the air. No luck! Let it soak with penetrant overnight and tried again....no luck. Heated than tried it....no luck. When it came to using the tap to crank them out, it took an inordinate amount of pressure to break them loose. Since the cylinders and the pistons are quite pitted I think I'll just spring for a decent looking unit off the internet and hope I'm not faces with the same trouble.


If you try machining for a larger fitting, you may need a special porting tool, as it's not just a tapped hole for a hydraulic fitting to seal--has straight pipe (metric) threads and a seat at the bottom that's got to be perfect.  Then again, as others are saying if it doesn't work out you can get a used OEM replacement.

[Rio Wil]

try this .......size accordingly


http://www.carid.com/dorman/bleeder-screw-repair-kit-5-16-8mm-and-larger-bleeder-screws-mpn-13916.html?gclid=CLTWiKq_4sMCFVKDfgod7CIAnQ

[Firefighter]

I have never seen speed bleeders so am not sure of what I am talking about, but if there is one larger than the hole size you have now would that solve the problem? Isn't the speed bleeder a one piece screw in part? Just a thought.  Firefighter

[John Schmidt]

try this .......size accordingly


http://www.carid.com/dorman/bleeder-screw-repair-kit-5-16-8mm-and-larger-bleeder-screws-mpn-13916.html?gclid=CLTWiKq_4sMCFVKDfgod7CIAnQ

Thanks loads, I just found that on another forum as well. Great coincidence, the person that posted it said he had used it a number of times and it works great. Got his at NAPA so guess where I'm headed tomorrow? 

[Tfrank59]

try this .......size accordingly


http://www.carid.com/dorman/bleeder-screw-repair-kit-5-16-8mm-and-larger-bleeder-screws-mpn-13916.html?gclid=CLTWiKq_4sMCFVKDfgod7CIAnQ

that's a nice little kit.  So what I wrote earlier about the seat at the bottom, disregard.  This brass insert takes care of it.  The only thing to get right is the threads for the brass fitting itself, which the web page calls 5/16 or 8mm.  I guess you must have the choice between inch and mm for your brass insert, so it pays to know which tap you have (or perhaps you have neither and have to buy that as well).  Curious to me is which OD threads are on the brass fitting, as they look to be tapered in the photo but 5/16 wouldn't be NPT.  Anyway, good luck and I'd like to know the outcome.

[da prez]

  John , I have used several over the years. Use locktight when you install the brass fitting. I am glad you had a response as we were out of town. Had I seen the post , my reply would be the same.   Dorman has a product line that will help you get out of trouble most times.

                                  da prez

[John Schmidt]

  John , I have used several over the years. Use locktight when you install the brass fitting. I am glad you had a response as we were out of town. Had I seen the post , my reply would be the same.   Dorman has a product line that will help you get out of trouble most times.

                                  da prez

I was definitely planning on using Loctite, just wonder if NPT threads are an absolute requiement. I have two different sets for threading stuff....SAE and MM, doubt if either are for NPT though.

[Ricky-D]

Loktite makes all different formulations depending upon the application.

Using the correct formulation for this application would be the best to

help to avoid future problems.

***

[da prez]

 There are two types of pipe threads , straight and tapered. When you buy a pipe coupler , it is straight pipe. You put a taper, pipe in it. They seal either way , but sealer should be used. In your case , locktite.   NPT national pipe thread -NPTS national pipe thread straight.

                                         da prez

[John Schmidt]

OK Ross, here's my dilema. Look at the size of the boss where the bleeder is located, it's only 9/16" wide. If I have to drill out as much as 5/16" for the repair insert to go in, that only leaves 1/8" all around which isn't much material left in my view, especially aluminum. There's no way I'd go ahead with a repair that large. Does your HD shop have smaller units, I'm more inclined to replace the entire caliper than try to repair it, my hide doesn't look good with holes in from failed brakes. 

[Tfrank59]

No offense, but that's an ugly looking caliper.  Even if you didn't have the thin wall where you can't drill and tap larger, I'd think about replacing it anyway. 

[da prez]

Let me do some checking. I used the repair bleeders before I started on HD's. There is another style.

               da prez

[John Schmidt]

No offense, but that's an ugly looking caliper.  Even if you didn't have the thin wall where you can't drill and tap larger, I'd think about replacing it anyway. 

No offense taken, but you need to keep in mind this is a restoration. Do you really think I'd reinstall a caliper with it looking like this? A good bath with paint remover and a hose will do wonders for the appearance, followed by some colorful caliper paint to set off the "hammered black" frame. The other calipers don't look much better but at least I can remove everything on them. All will get a bath and some paint when done, and if I could reuse the subject caliper I would. Sadly, it will have to be tossed but the replacement won't look any better....at first.  

[John Schmidt]

Let me do some checking. I used the repair bleeders before I started on HD's. There is another style.

               da prez

OK, in the mean time I'm going to rebuild the left front caliper and use it in back, same caliper just a different mount. That will let me finish servicing and rebuilding the rear end of the bike, next will be the forks. The right side caliper has smaller pistons due to the split braking, which I'm doing away with. At least all the other units I was able to remove the bleeder, will apparently have to drill the pistons in the right side unit. They're not moving so far, soaking in penetrant now....will see what happens.

[Hook#3287]

John, this vid helped me when I removed the old pistons from my naked 1000 calipers.  I just did it while they were still hooked up on the bike and let it all drip into a 5 gal bucket.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DrHvIA_--BAs&ei=E0ThVLvGJaK_sQSw-IHgBA&usg=AFQjCNHrXGV5hMhlWPxpkoOHbgZK1N6W8g

[Tfrank59]

No offense, but that's an ugly looking caliper.  Even if you didn't have the thin wall where you can't drill and tap larger, I'd think about replacing it anyway. 

No offense taken, but you need to keep in mind this is a restoration. Do you really think I'd reinstall a caliper with it looking like this? A good bath with paint remover and a hose will do wonders for the appearance, followed by some colorful caliper paint to set off the "hammered black" frame. The other calipers don't look much better but at least I can remove everything on them. All will get a bath and some paint when done, and if I could reuse the subject caliper I would. Sadly, it will have to be tossed but the replacement won't look any better....at first.  

Okay, well in that case.     But I was also wondering why it's a Honda caliper--my 98 tourer has Nissin calipers, which I thought were OEM.  Is this caliper off a Valk?

[John Schmidt]

No offense, but that's an ugly looking caliper.  Even if you didn't have the thin wall where you can't drill and tap larger, I'd think about replacing it anyway. 

No offense taken, but you need to keep in mind this is a restoration. Do you really think I'd reinstall a caliper with it looking like this? A good bath with paint remover and a hose will do wonders for the appearance, followed by some colorful caliper paint to set off the "hammered black" frame. The other calipers don't look much better but at least I can remove everything on them. All will get a bath and some paint when done, and if I could reuse the subject caliper I would. Sadly, it will have to be tossed but the replacement won't look any better....at first.  

Okay, well in that case.     But I was also wondering why it's a Honda caliper--my 98 tourer has Nissin calipers, which I thought were OEM.  Is this caliper off a Valk?

Nope, it's an OEM caliper. A Honda with Honda calipers.

[John Schmidt]

Well, just ordered two rebuild kits and a left front caliper off ebay. On the 1200, the left front caliper and the rear are the same unit. So, when looking for a replacement I looked at both, expands your choices greatly. Picked up a decent looking unit for $35 and a couple kits for about $30 ea., all with free shipping. The pads look almost new on the caliper I bought so if they aren't EBC I'll use them in place of buying new. The caliper looks fairly clean so hope I'm not buying someone else's headache, but you never know on used parts.

[da prez]

John , go to levineautoparts.com. They have the smaller bleeder screws. I also found them at autozone on line. Our supplier quit stocking as low volume. Hope this works.


                                      da prez

[John Schmidt]

Thanks Ross, I'll check it out.

[da prez]

 Hook , and all others . I have had some that would not come out with that method. ( it is a VERY good way , I am not knocking it) I install a grease fitting in the fluid line and pump it with grease. I have not found one that I couldn't get apart with a grease gun. Just a cleanup and go.

                     da prez

[John Schmidt]

Ross, when you say the "fluid line" are you referring to the brake line hose connection or the bleeder connection? Right now I'm struggling with the right side front caliper, that sucker is stuck solid also. I do have a grease gun that runs off my compressor. Where did you find a grease zerk large enough if it's for the hose connection site?

[Hook#3287]

Hook , and all others . I have had some that would not come out with that method. ( it is a VERY good way , I am not knocking it) I install a grease fitting in the fluid line and pump it with grease. I have not found one that I couldn't get apart with a grease gun. Just a cleanup and go.

                     da prez

As John asked, I'd be interested in learning how you made the connection from grease gun to caliper.  Zerk fitting in the banjo bolt hole?

[da prez]

  Grease fittings for trucks and heavy equipment go up to 1/4 inch. I have all in stock from my service truck.  There are straight pipe threads and tapered pipe threads. There is also metric grease fittings. I get the one closest and teflon tape it and tighten it just enough to stay in. The thread is long enough to clean up with a tap after removing the grease fitting if any damage occurs. Last summer we had one in the shop that had been siezed up for fourty years (according to customer).
  I put a piece of 1/4 inch plywood in front of the piston. This one sounded like a fire cracker when it came loose.

                        da prez 

[Hook#3287]

  Grease fittings for trucks and heavy equipment go up to 1/4 inch. I have all in stock from my service truck.  There are straight pipe threads and tapered pipe threads. There is also metric grease fittings. I get the one closest and teflon tape it and tighten it just enough to stay in. The thread is long enough to clean up with a tap after removing the grease fitting if any damage occurs. Last summer we had one in the shop that had been siezed up for fourty years (according to customer).
  I put a piece of 1/4 inch plywood in front of the piston. This one sounded like a fire cracker when it came loose.

                        da prez 

I like this procedure for the next time I need to remove a piston.  Easy bench work.

I never understood the pressure you can get with grease till I bought my mini excavator.

In order to expand/adjust the rubber tracks, I use a grease gun. Just a couple of pumps, and it moves quit a bit.

[da prez]

O-K , now we can get technical. A tapered pipe thread has flats ( under a magnifing glass) at the roots and crest of the threads that are called truncation.
  It is the ammount of flat that is used for sealing purposes to create a dry seal.
  A new pipe thread (un-used) in theory does not need any sealant  to prevent leaks. Teflon tape is made in two (that I know of) styles. White is common , and there is a pinkish that is used for natural gas or propane. The pink can be used for both  , but the white will have a reaction to the gas (so I am told).
  Tapered pipe and straight pipe will seal dry , but straight to straight needs to be sealed. I recommend sealing all pipe threads with the proper sealant.

                                           da prez

[John Schmidt]

I got some grease fittings at Harbor Freight, a box for $4.99 and it had the size needed for both the bleeder and hose connection points. The threads were 1.0 and the caliper is 1.25, but they worked fine with some tape on the threads. Didn't leak grease, took some time even with my compressor driven gun to break them loose. One finally flew across the garage(I had previously aimed it), the other just dropped out. Clean up is no big deal, have a bucket of carb cleaner/solvent with a basket. Waiting for mail today, my "new" used caliper should be here so I can soak all three together.

After a good cleaning and drying, I plan to remove paint and buff down casting marks. The use some silver Dupli-Color caliper paint, brush on version instead of aerosol. Should look OK against a hammered black frame and swingarm that has a bit of a grayish cast at a distance. Was thinking about using the silver on the mounting brackets as well but decided to use the hammer black, makes the caliper stand out more.