Another Darkside Can of Worms - rating

[twdurdentwd]

This is my next CT: General AltiMAX HP High Performance Tire - 205/60R16 92H

What do you guys think of the tire above? And I am wondering whether "V" rating or "H" rating is better

[Momz]

V rating IMHO

[The emperor has no clothes]

I've run both v and h rated tires. Not a whole lot of difference in my opinion. I think the h rated might be slightly easier to put into a turn but like I said not much difference that I could tell.

[mustang071965]

been running that tire on the back of my Interstate for 4 years now. H rated. still looks new. have over 36,000 miles on it.

[Westsider]

Well, it all depends if your running regular or synthetic oil.

[BobB]

Well, it all depends if your running regular or synthetic oil.

Yes, and with V rated, you must change the air in the tire a lot more often...

[Gryphon Rider]

I run that tire in an H speed rating.  I would buy another.

I'm sure you know this, but speed ratings are as follows:

[old2soon]

And I BELIEVE when they talk "maximum speed" they are talking "sustained" speed. H rated on a motorcycle-I M H O-is plenty. Even with a passenger you are NOT getting anywhere near "load capacity" of a H-rated dark side tire. Somewhere in the description of where you are purchasing your tire from they SHOULD have a load rating chart. That load rating is the MAXIMUM weight it will handle PROPERLY inflated as per the folks what designed and built said tire. And YES there is a fudge factor built in but on a M/C be tough to get close to that Maximum load rating. I have an ex B I L that is approaching 350 LBS and even if you could get his fat ass on a M/C you would be good to haul him!  One suggestion I would make-unless you are seriously height challenged go to a 65 series versus the 60 series. I'm 6' 2" with a 32" inseam and I have a 65 series on my I/S with a stock seat and I can flat foot her easily. And the 65 series offers SLIGHTLY lower R P Ms in a given gear over a 60 series. RIDE SAFE.

[Jess from VA]

H rated car tire should never be load or speed issue on the Valk.

But it's softer sidewall should a better/easier ride than with the stiffer sidewall V.  Thou I don't know how much of a real difference that may be.

When you watch the many videos of CTs on bikes, you see in the leans, the sidewall flexes in moderate leans/turns, keeping the entire tread flat on the ground, up until the lean/turn goes max and the tread comes partially off the ground.  With a stiffer sidewall (or more air pressure), it would seem the stiffer V rated sidewall would cause the partial tread to come off the ground sooner than with an H rated.  And to provide more resistance, and more counter-steer necessary in the turns.  This is only theory and not tested.

Of course, all tires regardless of rating, are going to be a bit different.  And all this is affected by the pressure you run.   

[The emperor has no clothes]

And I BELIEVE when they talk "maximum speed" they are talking "sustained" speed. H rated on a motorcycle-I M H O-is plenty. Even with a passenger you are NOT getting anywhere near "load capacity" of a H-rated dark side tire. Somewhere in the description of where you are purchasing your tire from they SHOULD have a load rating chart. That load rating is the MAXIMUM weight it will handle PROPERLY inflated as per the folks what designed and built said tire. And YES there is a fudge factor built in but on a M/C be tough to get close to that Maximum load rating. I have an ex B I L that is approaching 350 LBS and even if you could get his fat ass on a M/C you would be good to haul him!  One suggestion I would make-unless you are seriously height challenged go to a 65 series versus the 60 series. I'm 6' 2" with a 32" inseam and I have a 65 series on my I/S with a stock seat and I can flat foot her easily. And the 65 series offers SLIGHTLY lower R P Ms in a given gear over a 60 series. RIDE SAFE.

I'm only 5'10" and had no problem with the 65 series. The only thing I didn't really like was the amount of lean on the side stand .

[dpcarson]

Has anybody tried this

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=ADVAN+Neova+AD08&partnum=055VR6AD08&fromSurvey=true

or these

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Dunlop&tireModel=Direzza+ZII&partnum=055VR6Z2&fromSurvey=true

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE-71R&partnum=055VR6RE71R&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Toyo&tireModel=Proxes+R1R&partnum=055VR6PR1RV2&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes


And sorry, didn't mean to hijack

[Crackerborn]

I wanted the stiffer sidewall of a V rated tire when I put the Yokohama avid envigor on last year. In hindsight, I don't believe the stiffer sidewall makes a bit of difference in the handling, whereas the air pressure in the tire makes a significant difference. Also, make sure you put metal valve stems on if you haven't already.

To dpcarson: Why are you looking at 55 profile tires? They will be .4 inch smaller radius than a 60, and the 205/60-16 will be the closest to stock. The Big Girl will stand up much straighter on the side stand with a 55, so inclined parking lots may become a challenge.

[Gryphon Rider]

To dpcarson: Why are you looking at 55 profile tires? They will be .4 inch smaller radius than a 60, and the 205/60-16 will be the closest to stock. The Big Girl will stand up much straighter on the side stand with a 55, so inclined parking lots may become a challenge.

I'm not him, but tires with the coolest looking tread patterns and stickiest rubber compounds don't come in 60-series.

[dpcarson]

 

To dpcarson: Why are you looking at 55 profile tires? They will be .4 inch smaller radius than a 60, and the 205/60-16 will be the closest to stock. The Big Girl will stand up much straighter on the side stand with a 55, so inclined parking lots may become a challenge.

I'm not him, but tires with the coolest looking tread patterns and stickiest rubber compounds don't come in 60-series.

[Jess from VA]

dpcarson, you may also want to do a little reading on summer sport tires.  They are generally not recommended for cold or winter use as they are prone to freeze and then slip and slide.  Though winters down your way may not be that big a deal (and maybe after they are warmed up riding it doesn't make any difference).

[dpcarson]

dpcarson, you may also want to do a little reading on summer sport tires.  They are generally not recommended for cold or winter use as they are prone to freeze and then slip and slide.  Though winters down your way may not be that big a deal (and maybe after they are warmed up riding it doesn't make any difference).

   If it is below about 50 I do not ride much.  Tried a toy run one year and we left the house when it was 19.  Never Ever will do that again.  I am more of a fair/warm weather rider.  My finger tips go numb real fast.

[Jess from VA]

dpcarson, you may also want to do a little reading on summer sport tires.  They are generally not recommended for cold or winter use as they are prone to freeze and then slip and slide.  Though winters down your way may not be that big a deal (and maybe after they are warmed up riding it doesn't make any difference).

   If it is below about 50 I do not ride much.  Tried a toy run one year and we left the house when it was 19.  Never Ever will do that again.  I am more of a fair/warm weather rider.  My finger tips go numb real fast.

Well, I'll go in 40.  But here's the thing; all tires of any type freeze.  I have many times in the past taken out one of my bikes for my first pretty cold ride of the season (after subfreezing weeks in the shed), and got a half mile down the road to a turn and had the bike do a bad butt puckering slip and slide.  And had the forehead-smack moment that.... dude, even if the engine is warmed up, the tires are not warmed up.  I don't forget anymore.  (I ride my bikes periodically all winter more for the maintenance, carb issues, than the happy ride issues).  

[Crackerborn]

To dpcarson: Why are you looking at 55 profile tires? They will be .4 inch smaller radius than a 60, and the 205/60-16 will be the closest to stock. The Big Girl will stand up much straighter on the side stand with a 55, so inclined parking lots may become a challenge.

I'm not him, but tires with the coolest looking tread patterns and stickiest rubber compounds don't come in 60-series.

Then it becomes a personal choice, since the tires you are referencing are all excellent choices. I would look for the most rounded edge, but that is my opinion, and only worth what you paid for it.  

Jess, 40 degrees? Wahoo, chip the edges off the ice, it's swimming season.........The bikes go on the road as soon as the snow and salt goes away, even if it's 20 degrees. And yes, warm up those tires. By now, winter blows.

 

[Jess from VA]

I hear you CrackerB, it's all a matter of geography (and maybe age).  We get enough 40 here in NoVA for the occasional ride to not be frigid (less this year than most though).  And my body is not as tough as it once was.  And I won't go with sand and chloride all over because I don't like washing my bikes in the cold either (and you cannot put them away with that crap all over them).

[MarkT]

Has anybody tried this

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=ADVAN+Neova+AD08&partnum=055VR6AD08&fromSurvey=true

or these

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Dunlop&tireModel=Direzza+ZII&partnum=055VR6Z2&fromSurvey=true

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE-71R&partnum=055VR6RE71R&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Toyo&tireModel=Proxes+R1R&partnum=055VR6PR1RV2&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes


And sorry, didn't mean to hijack

Advan Neova:
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,69296.msg683358.html#msg683358

[dpcarson]

Thanks for the link to that thread Mark.  Not good reviews on that tire.   I am going to look through those and see what I can find.  The good year triple tread looked interesting.  Anybody got a recommendation on maybe a toyotire?  Wife has those on her camry this time and they are doing pretty good.  I have michelin defenders right now on my car and they are great too, but do not look much at all like a bike tire.

[Bone]

dpcarson I'm on my second GYTT. The mileage is great the corners are a little square. I've become very used to them and haven't any surprises. When I had the first one installed the first heavy rain I took the bike out and logged some miles on familar roads. Hated to put the bike through the mess but didn't want to get stuck in a rain storm while traveling. Haven't had a flat or punture yet the Dunlop motorcycle tires were like junk magnets giving me several problems.

[Jess from VA]

The Goodyear Assurance TripleTred All-Season was one of the first CTs widely used on the Valk (and other bikes), with many good reports by users.  I was one of the naysayers on CTs (of course, never having used one), but after multiple ME880s (my favorite BT) at 8-9K before bald, I became more interested, and kept reading.  

I finally got one, went thru the short learning curve (at 40psi constant), and was very pleased. My first one went 37.5K (and did one rear end service during that time) and still had a good 3-4K left, but it was time for a service again (and other work), so I replaced it with another.  And during this time, my other Valk (on it's last BT) needed a new tire, so I put one on it too.

Over the last few years, the GATT has come more into disfavor as a CT choice because it is a bit more square with harder compound, and people have discovered more CTs with more BT-like performance and rounder profile, and I do not doubt these reports at all.  But on the theory that I don't fix what's not broke, and the GATT works great for me, with long life, and great all weather traction, I have just stuck with what I know.  They do not handle pooly or squirrelly to me at all.

The first and foremost reason I run CTs is for longevity of rear tire.  It saves me 3-4 more expensive BTs per each GATT interval, so money is another reason, but the GATT is not one of the cheaper CTs. I am sure some other CTs would be more bike-like in handling, but I would not choose any different CT that only got 15-20K miles over mine that will absolutely get 35-40K.  Some claim to getting 15-20K on the Dunlop E3 BT, but I would not run that tire if it got 50K.  

However, one must not ride a CT 35-40K without doing any rear end service during the interval.  The preferred rear end service lube, check, Oring (and periodic drive unit dope change) is 10K.  If you do them properly, and are finding no red rust corrosion (dry moly lube) or spline wear, I think this can safely be pushed out to 15K or a bit more.  But not 35-40K in any event.

These are some issues that need to be considered when choosing which CT you do decide to use.  I like a long wearing tire, but I still have to do at least one rear end service during it's lifetime.  Probably should do two, but I have had no issues at all so far.

I would also note that all three of my GATTS have balanced on a professional machine with only a single weight or two, less weight than any other BT I ever had balanced at a shop.

One other small point.  When you call to order one tire (whatever it is), the salesmen like to sell four, and safety fanatics may refuse to sell any for a motorcycle.  So if asked, tell them it is for a spare, you already have four good ones on your car.  

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Assurance+TripleTred+All-Season

[dpcarson]

Can I ask another darkish question please.  Again, sorry to hijack but.......

I have talked to local tire shop and looking at the altimax of GY triple tread

I have this new project that I am going to put new rubber on and my stadard is in need also.  When I make the move over to darkside, how much difference is the front tire going to make?  Is there a preferred front tire to use when going dark?  I have been running metz 880's since I first got the standard back in 2004, and the phat girl eats us front tires.  Does anybody have any recommendations on front tires?

Thanks

[Bone]

When I started with a CT I asked the same question. It was suggested by a member thet I try a bias tire up front he had liked the ride. So I bought a Dunlop 404 150/80 and they were cheap. I get from 14k to 18k per tire. I change tires before a trip sometimes I give up mileage for peace of mind.

[Jess from VA]

DP, you can run any front tire you want with a CT rear.  I have never heard or read that any particular front tire works better with a CT rear.  I have read that NEW front tires work better with a CT, but that pretty much comes under the no-crap, Sherlock rule.

You can run a front bias with a rear CT steel belt, no problem.  I love the (steel, not bias) ME880 better (performance wise) than any other bike tire (BT), and have run them on my valks and previous bikes for many years.  But because I can only get about 8K of good miles (and another 2K of not-so-good-to-downright-unsafe miles) from a 150 steel ME880, I have been experimenting with different front tires (all with my GATT rears).

I tried a Bias Avon Roadrider rear (deeper tread) on front, reversed, in 130, and it was just OK. It was very slippery for some 200-300 miles before scuff-in, and did not have great confidence inspiring strength (of 150 steel belts) when running the mountain twisties at full tilt boogie. Just cruising around, it was fine.  But it did not give me significantly more miles than my ME880s (even with rear tread), so I'll never use one again.

I never did try Hoser's (Bone's) Dunlop bias 404 150/80, and probably should have.  They got very good miles, but I never get the miles some do, no matter what the tire.

Next up is the new Michelin Commander II, dedicated steel belt front.  But you have to compromise in size from the 150 80 17 to a 140 75 17.  It is supposed to be almost a half inch shorter than the OE 150 80 front, but I cannot notice any subjective difference in ride, feet down, kickstand down or anything else. The 140 vs 150 is no issue at all.  The web is full of glowing/praising reports on this tire.  Interestingly, they come brand new with no nubbies and no apparent release agent; I was still careful at first, but it stuck like glue from brand new on.

Here is my initial report.  http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,67929.0.html

I have to swap bikes (two interstates) every few months, and the Commander II (front) bike is stored for the winter, so I don't know how many total miles I will get, but if they beat the ME880s, they will probably be my front tire for good (about $40-50 cheaper than the ME880 steel front).  I called and emailed Michelin asking if they'd please make then in Valk OE sizes (front and rear), and they weren't interested.  They match the ME880 in strength and grip in all weather in every way.  I have never been a big Avon Venom Cobra fan (too many factory irregularities for years and years), but based purely on wide consensus on this board, that would also be a very good choice for a front tire.      

[dpcarson]

 
Thanks for that very detailed response and feedback.  Greatly appreciated!