Valkyrie Blower - inspection and few questions

[Daro]

Can anyone enlight me - what is the exact model of Valkyrie supercharger? I  see only XEAB 32879:

http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/DarekF6C/library/Valk%20Blower?sort=3&page=1

What can You tell me about rotors condition by looking at the pics only? How can I check if they are ok?
I am asking because I have feeling that my blown Valk is weaker than my standard Valk...

I heard that Valkyrie blower should make about 7 PSI of boost...My gauge says ZERO...even at 4000rpm...

[BonS]

Hello,

Zero boost is sure strange. You've gotten this far so I'm sure that you checked your blower belt and drive pulley's and wodruff key(s) are intact and were actually spinning the blower, right? Did the gauge show vacuum but never go into the positive pressure range?

If you need specific info on the blower or rebuild information you can call Bill Bushling of MagnaCharger.com. It's best to call him as I've had no success with email.

Bill Bushling
MagnaCharger
4059 Hwy 99W
Orland, CA 95963 Phone: 530-865-7010
Fax: 530-865-7875
Hours: 9:00 a.m. - 4:30 p.m. PST

It's my understanding that the blower was designed by Jerry Magnuson when he owned MagnaCharger.com. Jerry worked with Eaton to design this blower. Jerry later sold his interest in MagnaCharger to Bill Bushling.

As an owner of a blower Valk, there is absolutely no way that a blown Valk can be mistaken for having the same or less power than a standard - no way. I've never had my standard valk float its front wheel in 1st and 2nd gears!

[Daro]

Hello,

Zero boost is sure strange. You've gotten this far so I'm sure that you checked your blower belt and drive pulley's and wodruff key(s) are intact and were actually spinning the blower, right? Did the gauge show vacuum but never go into the positive pressure range?

Exactly - gauge shows vacuum but no pressure... rotors are spinning, belt and pulley seem to be ok... Gaskets look ugly - a lot of silicone...

[BonS]

Any more history on how you got to this point? Is the history of the build known? Did it perform well recently? Was it a sudden decrease in power or gradual? How many miles on the blower. Mine has ~42K without a problem. I'm wondering about the drive gears in the front end of the blower. Could they have failed and the blower rotation simply be from the vacuum created by the running engine?

[Anthony]

hello Darek,

in your other pics I see you still have the old model with J tube.
is that bypass valve correctly installed and functioning ?
do you see it opening / closing when running on idle  / when blipping the throttle ?
if that bypass valve is stuck open, you will lose all pressure !

about the roots compressor itself :
i see pics where you have the blower in the hand :
the rotors should spin easy by turning the pully by hand, no grinding noises or feeling, just the noise of 2 metals touching.
use duck tape to close off the bottom side (output), try to seal it as good as possible.
spin the rotors manually : is the duck tap bulging out because of the pressure or not ?
remove the duck tape again : do you feel less resistance to spin the rotors ?

Anthony

[BonS]

in your other pics I see you still have the old model with J tube.
is that bypass valve correctly installed and functioning ?
do you see it opening / closing when running on idle  / when blipping the throttle ?
if that bypass valve is stuck open, you will lose all pressure !

Anthony

Good catch Anthony. I have the 2nd gen blower without the bypass-valve.

[Daro]

Any more history on how you got to this point? Is the history of the build known? Did it perform well recently? Was it a sudden decrease in power or gradual? How many miles on the blower. Mine has ~42K without a problem. I'm wondering about the drive gears in the front end of the blower. Could they have failed and the blower rotation simply be from the vacuum created by the running engine?

I bought the bike in 2011 with around 7k miles...don't know when the supercharger was added by previous owner (a helicopter pilot from Florida...his name was Benjamin (Benji), I think... ) So it was 11 years old and 7k miles only... After importing it to Poland bike spent another 3 years in the garage... I started to use it seriously this year... Bike had no boost gauge and always seemed to me a little "lazy". When I put the gauge ...You know the rest of the story

[Daro]

hello Darek,

in your other pics I see you still have the old model with J tube.
is that bypass valve correctly installed and functioning ?
do you see it opening / closing when running on idle  / when blipping the throttle ?
if that bypass valve is stuck open, you will lose all pressure !

about the roots compressor itself :
i see pics where you have the blower in the hand :
the rotors should spin easy by turning the pully by hand, no grinding noises or feeling, just the noise of 2 metals touching.
use duck tape to close off the bottom side (output), try to seal it as good as possible.
spin the rotors manually : is the duck tap bulging out because of the pressure or not ?
remove the duck tape again : do you feel less resistance to spin the rotors ?

Anthony

Hi Anthony,

This "tape test" was the first thing done. Yes, tape bulging...but after removing it the resistance is pretty much the same...I'll try to do that again tommorow.
Rotors are spinning without any strange noise...
Bypass works as it should...

[Anthony]

Darek,
Where is the gauge port located?

I don't expect much to go wrong with the compressor itself,
when it can turn free: it works as it should.
The question is: where is the pressure going?

Here you can see Some detail of a by pass valve functioning:

http://youtu.be/Xl31iQK5EtM

Anthony

[Daro]

Anthony, I have no picture with gauge attached. I left my 1999 supercharged Interstate (that with the 0 boost, discussed in this thread) in the garage and took my other supercharged Valkyrie (2003) for the test .
The gauge I have is graduated in BAR not PSI...so, it may be not accurate. I bought another, graduated 0-10 PSI but I have to wait for the package around 10 days...
http://www.wide-band.com/product-p/apsx_b2.htm

My concern is that boost (max around 0,5 BAR - around 7 PSI)  shows only at very high rpms (around 7000)... I need someone to tell me how supercharged Valk should boost at wide range of rpms and gears. For example - what boost should I expect in 1st and 2nd gear at 2000-5000 rpms?

Here is the short video on my 2003 supercharged Valk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92BcrCqixfM

[BonS]

I'll have to mount my GoPro to watch the gauge because I'm not going to be doing it!  I'll do that this weekend and post the video. Stay tuned. . .

[Anthony]

I could only find these 2 on YouTube, where the gauges are sometimes visible.

The bottom of the screen
http://youtu.be/lDNkhbScWRI
Near the end of this:
http://youtu.be/0wESx7lThv4

I hope Bons can make a better shot, showing the relation between pressure, rpm and load.

Anthony

[BonS]

Okay, here's the video that I promised. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy1lsQUh0dA

[Daro]

Thanks BonS!    This video explains my doubts... I think the supercharger in my Valk is working properly - only my expectations are far away from reality... I expected significantly better low rpm boost.
I am going to experiment with smaller pulleys maybe...and one more thing - how to upgrade my spupercharger to newer generation? What are benefits?

[BonS]

Well, there is good low rpm boost; it just doesn't boost so hard as to get into the positive pressure range. If the blower wasn't there then the engine would be much farther into the vacuum than it is. Initially, I was puzzled and surprised by the incredible, sensitive, part-throttle response with the boost gauge showing a vacuum. Eventually I came to understand that the blower is indeed contributing to the engine performance but just not boosting into the positive pressure range. It certainly doesn't need to.

As I understand it the biggest difference between the old and new blower setup is cold starts, low rpm throttle response and overall driveability. I never had the gen 1 setup so all I know is hearsay. I do know, however, that the gen 2 setup has a very sensitive, and instant throttle response at low rpm's. I also have an Interstate with carbs and the difference is huge! I didn't video a 1st gear standing start or any full-on speed shifting. The front end pops off the ground and floats easily.

The gen 2 doesn't have a waste gate or any way to limit pressure except for the pulley size. For long term reliability I've heard that 7-9 psi is the maximum. Others have experimented with with forged pistons and rods as well as dished pistons (if I recall correctly) to lower compression and then went with higher boost. The end result was a lot of heat that becomes your mortal enemy. And, of course, I have to mention the challenge of getting decent air intake and filtration to the 2nd gen carburetor. Mine ran like crap until I modded it. Before the mod it surged badly, was way to sensitive to tune properly, would load up at low rpm's, sometimes even foul a plug, and didn't generate near as much power. Since then, I haven't had to do a single thing except ride it. I recently changed from a Viking exhaust to the Cobra's and didn't need to change a thing to keep the performance correct throughout the entire performance envelope. Sweet!

[wingrider02]

Dang Bon, that sucker runs smooth!  Nice to see that the warm idle was nice and steady...so if I ever get one, I know it can be done! 

[BonS]

Dang Bon, that sucker runs smooth!  Nice to see that the warm idle was nice and steady...so if I ever get one, I know it can be done! 

Yup, I haven't touched the idle screw in years and that's the God's honest truth. Surging sounds cool but you have to time your getaway's in traffic to coincide with the surge or it'll stall. Not good in traffic. The intake mod isn't easy, and I can see why they didn't want to get into it originally as it involves craftsmanship and a new petcock, but IMHO it should have been done and it would have sold more blowers.

[Daro]

Bon, could You describe the intake mod ? I thought that main difference between 1st and 2nd gen was the carb (Mikuni instead of H-D carb)...
http://www.timskelton.com/valkyrie/tech/supercharger.htm
I thought that 1st gen was LaMonster kit... (It was a prototype, right?)
Are there any pictures of 2nd gen (what was in the package?)?

[BonS]

Bon, could You describe the intake mod ? I thought that main difference between 1st and 2nd gen was the carb (Mikuni instead of H-D carb)...
http://www.timskelton.com/valkyrie/tech/supercharger.htm
I thought that 1st gen was LaMonster kit... (It was a prototype, right?)
Are there any pictures of 2nd gen (what was in the package?)?

I bought my bike after it had the 2nd gen update already installed. My manifold has a plug where the J-tube and bypass valve was installed. In the 2nd gen there is an adapter that fits to the back of the blower and the Mikuni HSR-45 attached directly to that. The port on the manifold is simply plugged. My plug has been tapped for the Hobbs pressure switch. Since the carburetor faces rearward there is precious little room for a proper air filter. This is the sad little air filter that barely fit between the carb and the petcock.


The engine ran poorly, was difficult to tune, loaded up and sometimes fouled plugs with casual driving, and had a loping, irregular and unpredictable idle that required regular fiddling.

I designed and built a clean air intake tube without any internal obstructions that snakes down and out to let the engine breath ample amounts of clean, cold air through a filter that isn't trapped underneath the gas tank and has gobs of surface area. The overall design is below.



The top piece of silicone tube is a cut-down piece of 120 degree elbow. You can see that it has a flattened bend and that this is needed to clear the petcock. (I have an Interstate tank and this may or may not have contributed to clearance issues.)




I had to use a Pingle petcock with a downward spout.


And I did a cutout on my Kuryakyn transmission cover for clearance.




You can see here how little it protrudes from the side of the engine. I use my Baker air wings with a slight offset to send cold air over it. Otherwise it would still get too much hot air because the air dam behind the radiator is removed for the blower.

[BonS]

Oh, and the Pingle is reached from the right side of the bike instead of the left. This worked out nicely since the air filter takes up much of the access.

[Daro]

Update - I've removed blower, put smaller pulley (made by local turner), cleaned and tuned carb, replaced intake and blower gaskets  (I got rid of old silicone), done some polishing, installed digital boost gauge...and... WOW ! What a difference! Bike speeds up much better on each gear. Throttle response is immediate.  I easily reached 8.9 PSI of boost!