A TRUE 1800 Super Valk?

[pago cruiser]

mockup...

Did more than a couple searches about GL1800 engine transplants into the Valk the last several months.  Not much useful..  A shame, as the engine is (from what I have read) 2 lbs lighter than the 1500 engine, with (depending on who's numbers you want to believe) 20% more HP and torque.  What's not to like???   Can't believe no one has ever tried this b4... 

So...  Picked up a GL1800 swingarm/wheel and some other stuff a few weeks ago.  Last week picked up a set of GL1800 cases after our local dealership did a repair job.  Seems Trikes have a tendency to go over curbs none to well.  Also have a frame laying around ...  With all these parts stacked in the corner...   

So I was out in the shop, and notwithstanding some earlier naysayer posts, started bolting things together... 







Engine pic is not mine; just pilfered from ebay to show the alternator and starter protrusion from the back.  Unfortunately, looks like some gomer cut the wiring harness with a chain saw...

While not an afternoon project, this certainly looks... not impossible  .  All the engine mounts are within an inch or so of the Valk.  Fronts can be raised or lowered as needed.  Rears are just flat plates.  Bottom rails can be modded as needed.  And GL1800 height from front engine mount on top on the cases to bottom of the engine is 3/4" taller than the Valk.  Looks like the cases will fit.  That said, I think I'm going to need to raise the engine to match the output shaft

Sitting here looking at this, the 1st problem is the length of the tranny/alternator.  Wish I knew a guy with a GL1800 nearby and partially disassembled...  Called a guy on ebay, and he indicated the dimension from case to end of alternator plug was 8.5".  As the engine sits now, I have 8.25" clear to the frame cross member.  I also have some latitude on engine placement.  I'm trying to find a beater tranny case and alternator so I can confirm clearances and match output shaft alignment.

The only other major clearance issue ( I think) is intake manifold and injector bodies.  Trying to find one of those as well.  As it sits, there is almost 10" to bottom of the top frame rails. 

Electrical will take some time, as the GL1800 has a boatload of superfluous stuff, all integrated into the wiring harness; but I actually like that kind stuff.  Kinda like taking a bag of sh!t and making a couple pounds of shinola...  

If I can get the mockup to work, I may try and find a trashed GL1800 donor and keep busy this summer...

If anybody has a line on a tranny cover, alternator, or FI setup for cheap, please advise.   

[salty1]

Impressive work! I'm real curious to see the final outcome.  

[98valk]

just some thoughts....
wouldn't it be easier to just figure out how to re-do a GL1800 GW or F6b so the rads are not on the side?
there are a few 1800 GWs that where stripped to be a std style bike but still had the side rads.
then polish that aluminum frame, swing arm, etc,...  

various pics older goldwings and a GL1500
 http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/showthread.php?227051-Anybody-stripped-down-a-Goldwing

couple pics GL1800
http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/showthread.php?227051-Anybody-stripped-down-a-Goldwing/page2

[dago mooserider]

I've had thoughts on this as well.... but... I think your horsepower estimates are a bit high. My uncle's gold wing only puts down 105 h.p. at the wheel. After some port work/jetting from attic rat, I can out run him on my valk. He has a weight penalty I know... but I'm sure I'm making at least that power number. In the end it's proly not worth the 10-12 h.p. gain (more torque than that tho). Although, getting rid of our damn carbs might be worth it alone.
Now I've always thought that a 2.0 subaru motor would fit right in there, 200 h.p. and good for 100,000 before the head gasket goes....

[BF]

Can't wait to read more about your goldvalk project.  Pics are always a good thing.

I believe that this will turn out to be one of the better threads to read yet.

[dago mooserider]

I've had thoughts on this as well.... but... I think your horsepower estimates are a bit high. My uncle's gold wing only puts down 105 h.p. at the wheel. After some port work/jetting from attic rat, I can out run him on my valk. He has a weight penalty I know... but I'm sure I'm making at least that power number. In the end it's proly not worth the 10-12 h.p. gain (more torque than that tho). Although, getting rid of our damn carbs might be worth it alone.
Now I've always thought that a 2.0 subaru motor would fit right in there, 200 h.p. and good for 100,000 before the head gasket goes....

I was re-reading my own comment and thought it sounded a little negetive. Not meaning to be. The single side swing arm and 1800 motor would indeed be awesome in a classic looking valk. I would follow a project like this with interest. Part of my issue with the new valk is those goofy side radiators. I read somewhere that the 1800 requires additional cooling and that is why honda went to them. Just fyi.

[pago cruiser]

CA - Good pics in those links.  While I like the blue bike, it just needs...more.  Or less GL1800 stuff, actually.  I found a couple hi res of the naked Gl1800 frame/engine and have them printed out taped to the wall in my shop as a reference...  Heck, anybody could just change radiators...  People ask me why I do these goofy things to bikes - I answer, because I can...    maybe...

Dago - I've seen unsubstantiated numbers for HP and Tq all over the place.  But whats not to love about bigger, single sided swingarm, no more splines to lube, and FI?  Except maybe alternator drive failures on earlier years engines, but I'm getting ahead of myself...  And if this works, I'm pretty sure I'll never see another one like it...  Not taken as negative, no worries. 

I've thought a bit about the radiator.  The Rune rad might work, and it's front mounted.  Butt ugly though, just like the Rune...I'm thinking maybe a deeper, slightly wider version of the Valks would as well. Heck, its only 20% more displacement, and I think the additional heat generated should be linear.  My seat-of-the-pants heat calculator says 2" wider on each end and another row should be close.

But the rad problem is down the road; still need to find a FI setup and tranny case for mock up, and make sure the output shafts work.  Read somewhere the other day that they MUST be at least 3 degrees off, or harmonics destroy the u-joints in a hurry.  I'm gong to try and match the GL1800 angle, if possible.

Found a 2003 salvage 1800 bike with low miles and trashed plastics; and I think a split frame - but he still wants $3k.  While I have no use for the frame, would be nice to have a useful frame in case plan A does not work out; I could always replace/restore/repair the plastics and whatnot, and have a functional, although salvage, GL1800 to add to the stable...

Would really like to verify the mockup works before spending more $.

[RDKLL]

Looks like a cool project, make sure to keep us posted

[rhinor61]

Pago,

Keep up the great work..

Something to think about, add a rake kit to push out the front wheel, then add a 2nd radiator/electric fan,
where the timing belt cover would be. Thats is how the RUNE did it, its 2 radiators in front of the motor, but they put the '30's style cover over them, to make it look like a single radiator.



I am not saying to use the RUNE radiators $$$, just the concept of connecting 2 radiator in series.



anyways.
John

[gordonv]

I love what you are doing, and wished I had the space and ability to do it myself.

But I was thinking it might just be easier to get a GL1800, and dress it down to look like a cruiser, instead of swapping everything over to the GL1500.

It's not the big things I worry about, but the little things. Like custom wiring. Sensors for the FI and etc to allow the engine to run.

As for the 3K GL1800 frame, isn't the motor close to that price alone?

[Michvalk]

I think a good radiator shop could build a multiple core radiator with the proper flow rate. Just need to find a good radiator shop. (good luck with that)

[pago cruiser]

Thanks for the ideas on the radiators.  I was in our local Indy bike shop the other day, and they had some other ideas as well.  The V-rod radiator was also vertical, but also about as butt-ugly as the Rune...  The concept of two radiators in series also opens up other ideas. 

Talked to an acquaintance who breaks bikes today - he thought the $3k for the salvaged bike was a bit high.  Suggested $2k to $2.5k.  $1000 to $1500 will get you a 75000 mile 2006 or so engine.  $3k will get you a 2012 with low mileage and minor damage.  The donor bike I found (thoroughly trashed, as the bike was flipped, all plastics are hosed, and it appears the frame is cracked) would not interest him at $2500 in breaking the bike, as motor and electrics are about all that is saleable. 

Did find a tranny case, intake manifold/FI, alternator, starter, and output shaft for cheap, so should be able to bolt on and confirm fitment soon as all the stuff arrives in the next week or so.  Another Indy shop was kind enough to let me photo a GL1800 they were trike-ing.  The alternator will indeed be a tight fit; but I think if it interferes with the kickstand frame support, I can shift the engine 1/4" forward; or mod the kickstand support brace. 



Assuming one of the mods work, the worst part is that it may take removing the engine to change the alternator  .  But heck; if that was good enough for Honda on the GL1200, it's good enough for me...     

Today I played around a bit with it, raising the block about 2" to get the output shaft area on the block to line up with the GL1800 swingarm.  Now I need to cut the Valk front frame mounts shorter to allow the block to be level.   

While I have a frame, I'm doing the mockup in a good titled one.  I'd really like to find a salvage frame to experiment on.  I'm gonna post a WTB for same.  Found a couple on ebay, but all too much $ ($200 to $400) for a salvage frame, PLUS $200 for shipping is absurd  .  If anyone has any leads, it would be appreciated.     

[gordonv]

Assuming one of the mods work, the worst part is that it may take removing the engine to change the alternator  .  But heck; if that was good enough for Honda on the GL1200, it's good enough for me...     

A fellow GL1800 GW rider, an auto mechanic, is fighting with Honda over his alt right now. Seems the motor needs to come out, and I think it is 18 hrs to do the job "by the book". Instead, he bought an inexpensive GL1200 so he can ride during the summer, and will most likely need to do the job himself, which he is not looking forward to doing.

Make more room in there, to do the job like the GL1500. Please!!

[98valk]

Assuming one of the mods work, the worst part is that it may take removing the engine to change the alternator  .  But heck; if that was good enough for Honda on the GL1200, it's good enough for me...     

A fellow GL1800 GW rider, an auto mechanic, is fighting with Honda over his alt right now. Seems the motor needs to come out, and I think it is 18 hrs to do the job "by the book". Instead, he bought an inexpensive GL1200 so he can ride during the summer, and will most likely need to do the job himself, which he is not looking forward to doing.

Make more room in there, to do the job like the GL1500. Please!!

tell your friend to research the GL1200 electrical fix so as not to fry the stator which requires engine removal.  As far as I know the GL1200 is also the only one of all the Gls that requires engine removal for a clutch job. Superior engine, HP and MPG of the flat fours but has these problems due to the bike frame.

[pago cruiser]

Interesting.  With all the space behind the GL1800 alternator, I had just assumed it could be pulled without pulling the engine.  Now I don't feel so bad if my 1800 Super Valk © has the same "design feature"  .

+1 on the GL1200 info.  There are a couple ways to do "the fix": 1) is to hardware the stator wires to the rectifier.  2) is a bit more pricey, but updates the entire regulator and wiring with mosfets and sealed connectors.  This guy: http://roadstercycle.com/
sells kits for most bikes with these problems.  He also sells cool Morgan style 3 wheel trikes, with V-Max and HD power!  Cool stuff.  But I digress..  I replaced stock regulators on both my GL1200's with Jack's stuff..

Also, there is some thinking that longer oil change periods on the GL1200 may contribute to the stator failing.  It is bathed in oil, and the acids in the higher contamination/acids in the old oil may indeed be conducive to failure. 

On the clutch, while it may need the engine pulled to replace, I have about 40k miles on a GL1200 with Motorvation Hack.  We ride the snot out of it, three up (Wifey, canine, myself and travel stuff) doing a couple 5000 mile trips/year.  The bike, and the engine (stator excepted) are pretty much bulletproof...   

[pago cruiser]

Update.
Finally received some ebay stuff.  Tranny cover, alternator, output shaft, airbox.  Still waiting on FI intake and TB's.

The great news is that with the output shaft inserted into the driveshaft u-joint, the engine is still centered on the frame.  With my mock-up without the parts installed, it looked like it would have been off by an inch or so; prolly not good:

 
Good news is that the alternator fit is not a problem:


Not so good news is that it appears I need to shorten the output shaft, or shorten the u-joint tailpiece.


Have a partial solution, in that my local indie GW shop had a small collection of driveshafts, and the earlier (01-04) are indeed shorter; but I don't think short enough.  I'm going to swing by their shop today and see if they have the shorter version.


With the output shaft in the driveshaft u-joint, I was also able to estimate the engine placement.  Looks like the overall height change is less than 1/2".   

Still looking for a salvage frame to start cutting if anybody has any leads.

[pago cruiser]

Solved the output shaft issue.


Well, not really.  I just sawed off 2" from the splines from the GL1800 u-joint.; but at least it gets the engine to fit a bit better.  I checked our local indie GW shop, and picked up the earlier driveshaft.  But it was not short enough. 
 

Now I need to find a driveshaft place that can make or find a front yoke that has the same spline size as the GL1800.  Tried the Valk's, and the spline diameter is a bit (maybe 1/16"?) smaller than the GL1800.  I have not measured it with a caliper yet.  BUT the outer shaft is also the same size.  So when I pull the yoke off the GL1800 driveshaft, it may be possible to machine (broach) the splines bigger.  Had some work like this on the XR1200 driveline, and had to have some new primary sprocket gears broached; ended up with a guy in Montana IIRC doing the work.  No machinist shops around here could do it. 

Another option is to find a yoke with the right size spline; then swap the yoke, and assemble with an aftermarket u-joint and bona fide c-clips.  I remember a guy on this forum rebuilt his Valk u-joint in a similar manner.  Anyone have a u-joint from a VTX1800 laying around to measure?  These are common on ebay (about $20), so I may have to buy one to verify the size.  Would easily be 20X cheaper than having someone machine one.

Would still like to shorten the yokes another 1/2" to get the engine just a bit more rearward.  But the starter is just about to hit the frame crossmember, so not sure if I want to mod the member to gain another 1/2" motor placement to the rear.  That said, the additional forward protrusion may get in the way of clearance needed between engine/wheel/radiator  .
 

Sits in the frame good.  The biggest future problem (other than the u-joint) is wacking the front frame motor mounts, and having some new inserts mandrel bent to match the GL1800 motor mount location.  The front of the engine cases looks to protrude forward from mount about 4"; on the Valk it is 2". I'm about to the point on this issue that I can't test anything else until I wack the Valk frame motor mounts;  I'd really not wack a good (non salvage) frame; still hunting for a salvage frame to finalize this mockup.

While it looks taller, the distance from the Valk front motor mounts to the bottom of the engine is within 1/2" of the same measurement on the GL1800 engine.  Yes, it is not level yet; but the frame angle matches the engine block.  I currently still have rubber bushings in the swingarm mount, so I am getting a lot of deflection.  Have a machinist making some 4130 bushings to adapt the GL1800 bearings to the Valk swingarm bolts, but not done yet.   



Received the FI Intake rail late yesterday.  Looks like plenty of room between the motor case and the frame, but the Valk frame stock motor mounts are in the way to test fit.  And I still have to fab something to take the place of a GL1800 head; can't seem to find any of those used for less than $200. 

Picked up a set of frame rails from the dealer; could not believe that they were almost 1/2 price new as compared to ebay...  It appears they are mostly used to hang stuff from.  No way that spindly aluminum rail is structural.  But now I have a pattern to mod the stock Valk frame rail to.

All in all, it still looks like this will work.  Just need confirmation of the u-joint solution.  Then need to solve and finalize the swingarm/shock mount before I am ready to find a donor and start the REAL work...
 

[pago cruiser]

Did some checking on the 1800 site, and it seems more than a few trikes have had some issues with driveshafts and splines.

Motor Trike has a solution for their issues, and it looks like it may solve my problem as well.  About 2.25" length on the u-joint that slides onto the output shaft; almost perfect!  The "local" Motor Trike dealer in Phoenix was kind enough to answer his phone on a Saturday, so we were able to discuss this.  He should be able to get a price first of the week.  See red-ish box in upper right of pic below.  He confirmed that this uses the stock u-joint size bearings/caps.  So basically I would buy the Motor Trike piece, take it apart, find the right size u-joint that fits these yokes, and use his output shaft spline on the GL1800 driveshaft...  piece of cake...

Optionally, a local driveshaft guy may also be able to weld/balance/heat treat the splines I cut off onto the base of the yoke.  That would prolly work as well, but I would trust a place doing this day-in/day-out (Motor Trike) than one of our local machine shops.


Being able to use the stock GL1800 driveshaft should also help with vibrations; most of the Trikes go solid, and vibrations are sometimes an issue.

[mello dude]

Pago --- more power to you for taking on this project. Following your progress will be fun!


Side note for the halibut. Would love to take a F6B and ditch the GW fairing and go to a traditional batwing. That would work for me as a SuperGoldieValkyrie..... 

[pago cruiser]

Yea, except the Batwing would not fix the F6B's fat ass... I've seen helo landing pads smaller

Do need to come up with a better name.
Gold Valk as another poster suggested?  Sounds... pretentious.
Super Wing Valk?  More so.
Maybe a straight "Wing Valk"? 
If our Valks are an F6C, and the new Valks are an F6B...  Maybe an F6C+?
F61800? 1800F6?
F6C1800? 1800 F6C?
Or ???

Found a couple frames kind of local today.  One from a guy on the site:comes with a hydrolocked engine - not sure I want another project at this time, but am still thinking.

The other one is from a local wrecker;  funny story.  I called and asked them if they had a salvage but straight frame. After on hold a couple minutes, the came back on the phone.  Yep.  $400.  We talked a couple minutes, and I told him that I was not trying to beat him up too badly, but his competitors (ebay) are at about $200; but then its $200 shipping.  He replied "Well, we are a better deal, because we are local..."     

[slabghost]

I'm loving this build! Is it possible the 1500 heads can be used on the 1800? I know the 1000 heads can be fitted to the 1200 requiring just a bit of enlargement of the valve reliefs on the piston tops. The older cams had more lift.

[2qmedic]

The Valk I/S is the most awesome bike I've ever owned and not happy about considering the day a new bike is in order...
Really interested in seeing the outcome here!
 

[Paladin528]

Honda should revive the Valkyries of the past.  Keep the new Valkyrie but put that drivetrain into a classic I/S Frame design.  SuperCruiser.

[salty1]

Honda should revive the Valkyries of the past.  Keep the new Valkyrie but put that drivetrain into a classic I/S Frame design.  SuperCruiser.

It would probably sell much better than the Valk GW.   

[pago cruiser]

My hope is once I figure this out, it would almost be a cookbook to transplant the 1800 engine.  The most cumbersome part so far is that I have to cut off about 3" of the front down tubes to insert a fabbed piece to match up to the 1800 front motor mounts.  Still waiting on a frame b4 I start cutting.

Talked to the Phoenix Motor Trike guy - he is going to see if the factory will sell me a u-joint.  Hopefully this will not be a problem - I don't know why the reluctance.  But if it falls thru, then it's time to find a machinist, or take my splines that I cut off and find a driveshaft shop that can provide a certified welder and balancing.

Took my rubber swingarm bearing inserts to a machinist to make up some out of bronze.  I was using a rubber spacer to simulate the adapter, and it's time to get serious.  The rear shock (with hydraulic adjuster) should be here this week.

Mounted some arms on the block to simulate the head height bolted to the block and did a trial of the injector/intake manifold.  Looks like plenty of room.  Once everything else gets resolved, will need to marry a GL1800 airbox to the Valk airbox.   Oddly enough, the cylinders are not in a line.  The right side bank is about an inch further forward than the left.  Seems reasonable I guess, as there needs to be room for con rods adjacent to each other.  Here's a couple pics of the injectors/intake.  Not that I had to slide the engine aft to clear the Valk motor mounts; these will eventually be cut off and moved forward.  I believe there is enough clearance for this to work.

[Leatherman]

When you finish this build, you may need to have a " Name This Bike" contest.
How bout " Valkyrie Magnum"   ? 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Have you checked this place out for a possible frame ?
http://ww2.copart.com/us/search?FilterCodes=B&oc=True&ocN=motorcycles&cn=b&searchTitle=Motorcycles#frm=q%3D%26Page%3D6%26SearchTitle%3DMotorcycles%26zipFilter%3D0%26cn%3Db%26vf_titlgroup%3D%26InitialFilters%3DB%26OriginalCount%3D2728%26PageSize%3D20%26Sort%3Dsd%26FilterCodes%3DB%26oc%3DTrue%26ocN%3Dmotorcycles%26make%3DHOND
Also the Valkyrie cylinders are offset too. Good luck on your project, I check the thread just about every day looking for updates 

[pago cruiser]

I like the Valk Magnum; or maybe the Magnum Valk!

Been looking at places for a frame (including copart), but it seems as soon as something gets to the commercial guys the price goes berserk. Found a recently wrecked Valk up in ID courtesy of another poster; the price was kind of reasonable ($2250) for the entire bike.  But it had gone down on the freeway, and flipped on both sides at speed; pretty buggered up.  That said, if it was closer I would have checked it out.  But between his price and shipping, I would be looking at $3k.  That's nuts.  There is a Valk Tourer on Craigslist here right now with 40k, asking $3500.  But I'm trying to hold out for an IS, as I'd like the bigger tank.

Had a minor setback on the u-joint.  Seems Motor Trike corporate does not feel that using their u-joint on a stock GL1800 drive train is safe.  They will not sell it "as it is against policy".  Asshats.  See below for correspondence from a local Motor Trike dealer:

"Ok man it is not looking good on this ujoint. They don’t want to sell it for your application. Company policy.

If you still have the splined section that you cut off. You can take it to a quality welding shop and have them weld it on.  I would suggest a drive shaft shop.

It looks like that is the best I can do for you. Unless you want to pay 300 for the entire drive shaft.

Sorry again. Sometimes I don’t know what they are thinking."


And my response:

"Sorry to hear that.

Company policy?  That's a REALLY astute and forward looking company if they have a policy about putting a GL1800 driveline in a Valk frame.  Kudos to their crystal ball department. :-)

Christ, it's a u-joint made by a machinist (maybe a couple dozen per run) to adapt the Motor Trike rear end to a stock GL1800 output shaft.  It is heavier duty than a stock component, as you were having failures.  It is also a slightly different design (shorter), which is what met my application requirement.

I guess somebody feels that using this u-joint in a STOCK GL1800 driveline application (engine, driveshaft, swingarm, final drive, wheel) is not a suitable application, and thereby represents some type of risk.  By what kind of logic does someone reach this conclusion?

I'll probably go the welded route, but it is not that simple.  Still needs truing, balancing, and heat treating; and getting technical work done here in Tucson is tough. 

That said, thanks for the offer on purchasing the entire driveshaft.  I hope that is still viable.  Your product is still the best solution.  Would you please confirm you can indeed order this complete part?  Just as a "replacement part for some guy with a Motor Trike who just walked in off the street"?  I am serious.

Its REALLY a good thing that I did not tell them my actual use; I am secretly building the dual engine, dual blower, nitrous burning, Triumph Rocket 3 streamliner bike for an assault on the Bonneville land speed record next month; you may have heard about it.  And I'm trying to use a Motor Trike GL1800 driveshaft.  That way if it blows up I can sue Motor Trike...

Darn, they saw right through my real motive.

Thanks."

The dealer was basically shut down selling the u-joint by Motor Trike.  We had talked a bit, and I am guess that he made small talk to the parts person, and soon it made it up to the corporate suits...  Lawyers are the bane of this country.  If these asshats were totally in charge they would shut the company down; everybody knows motorcycles are deadly.  Of course, several hundred people would be out of a job, but it would eliminate the possibility of being sued.  But I digress..    

Going to see the one guy in town (Tucson) who can do this work; at least everything except the heat treating. 

Just had a thought: if anybody knows someone with a GL1800 Motor Trike, I would appreciate a PM. 

Sigh.  

[gordonv]

Would they sell that part to an owner of a Motor Trike? There has got to be one out there, a GW owner.

[pago cruiser]

Still looking for a Motor Trike owner if anybody knows one...

Thought I had an alternative.  I just happened to have a Valk U-Joint handy, as my solo Valk is starting to get a bit of driveline vibration if I accelerate hard, and then close the throttle.  Pretty sure its the u-joint, as it has slowly gotten worse.

At any rate, the Valk u-joint is ..almost... the correct length.  They are exactly the same size in tubing diameter and splines.  Top is the cut down GL1800 driveshaft.  I can only get an approximate length as I am still trying to figure out the GL1800 swingarm mounting.  Bottom is the Valk u-joint.  See pic:



So I took the GL1800 driveshaft and the Valk u-joint and a Precision Products 392 u-joint (thanks again to Free Pass for figuring this out!) to a machinist yesterday.  Removing the divits to remove the original u-joints from the GL1800 driveshaft and the Valk "swivel" is no problem.  Machining in the circlip grooves in the Valk swivel to accommodate the 392 is no problem. The problem is that no one around here has a lathe large enough to swing the GL1800 driveshaft in order to cut in the circlip grooves and allow installing the 392.

I'm going over to see a friend later today who has a NC mill; the hope is that he has, or can make, a 90 degree bit that is small enough to insert into the GL1800 driveshaft yoke and mill out the circlip groove.

I would have had the same problem with the Motor Trike u-joint; so I guess them being an ignoranus - ("Noun - a combination of ignorant and asshole") has actually helped this project move along... 

If there are any machinists, or NC operators around here, I'd appreciate any comments.

[pago cruiser]

Time for an update.
Got the driveshaft/u-joint wrapped - I think.  Basically took the Valk front yoke (with splines) and swapped it into the Gl1800 driveshaft with the aftermarket u-joint.  Pretty much per the other long post on this site for the rebuildable u-joint.  EXCEPT that had to use a NC Mill for the machining, as the 1800 driveshaft is too long to swing in a lathe... But the mill worked perfect.  I'll post some pics when I get home.

Finally found a victim donor 1800.  A 2003 that had been wrecked, salvage, with 25k miles.  Still have to pick it up, but I looked at it last weekend.  As cr@p as it looks, it still runs!  Found several others from wrecking yards, but they were higher miles and more $.  Private party is the way to go.  I did find a great private party 1800 in Calif, but it also had abs, which would have really complicated wiring and locating ABS hardware and the computer.

Also finally received my salvage frame, so I can start cutting this weekend I hope.

[slabghost]

Congrats! Looks like this will be going on to completion now.

[pago cruiser]

"going onto completion"... in general, yes.  But prolly at the speed of continental drift.     Wish I had more time to devote to this; it's now getting interesting  .  But I still work about 60 hours/week, and have a few other bike related projects... sigh.   

Anyhow, here the driveshaft semi-final:  Top is the Valk yoke on the 1800, and bottom is the stock 1800.



I can still trim it about 1/4" shorter, but I think the length of the starter hitting the frame cross member may be the limiting factor.  Still trying to figure out how to keep the weight distribution the same for to aft.   

The 1800 has massive swingarm bearings, fully 25mm id, while the Valk is 15mm id.  This is due to the aluminum frame/swingarm of the 1800.  In general, aluminum is 1/3 the weight, but only half as "strong".  So everything has to be bigger as it basically takes more aluminum to match the strength of steel.  It's not quite that simple, but close enough for this discussion...

Had another machinist make up some sleeves to adapt the Valk swingarm bolts to the 1800 bearings.  I tried a couple bearing houses, but no one could find one with the OD of the 1800 (to match the swingarm cups) and the ID of the Valk (to match the bolts that have to thread through the frame).  So we pressed some sleeves onto the Valk bolts with a collar that just fits through the Valk frame, and Bob's your uncle... in theory... 




Should be able to get the swingarm mounted up this weekend, play some more with engine mounts, and mount the wheel/tire.  Its a Valk tire, as I am trying really hard to keep the same frame geometry as the Valk; although I may raise the rear end an inch or so by playing with the shock mount.  I did this on my solo Valk and I like the way it turns in just a bit quicker; as well as provides a bit more ground clearance.     

Pic below.  The new Valk tire (E3, 180/70-16) is a full 2" greater in diameter than the relatively worn 1800 tire (180/70-16) - did not think the difference would be so great.



Have a machinist working on the lower shock mount, which is a bugger.  Then I think I'm gonna bend a frame tube about 1/2" out of the way of the swingarm...   this should be interesting.

[slabghost]

Out of curiosity why are you not using the 1800 swingarm and final drive? Seems a lot easier to get the wheel off the 1800.

[gordonv]

Had another machinist make up some sleeves to adapt the Valk swingarm bolts to the 1800 bearings.  I tried a couple bearing houses, but no one could find one with the OD of the 1800 (to match the swingarm cups) and the ID of the Valk (to match the bolts that have to thread through the frame).  So we pressed some sleeves onto the Valk bolts with a collar that just fits through the Valk frame, and Bob's your uncle... in theory... 

So that would be the right set of bolts with sleeves on them? I thought the GL1500 looked more like the pair on the left.

[pago cruiser]

Slabghost - I am using the 1800 swingarm; but the 1800 bearings are too big to get the bolts thru the Valk frame, and the Valk frame would need to be modified and additionally reinforced to be re-drilled for the 1800 bearings.  Hence, the adapters.

GordonV - They do look similar.  if you can remove (in your minds eye) the pressed on adapter on the (2) bolts on the right,  the only difference is the size and threads.  And the GL1500 swingarm bolts are the same as the Valks; I checked, as I was hoping to get lucky... alas, twas not too be.

In order to get the bearing end through the Valk threads in the frame, the collar diameter that presses against the bearings had to be reduced.  A little odd, but it is steel pressing on steel with almost 1/8" pressure area, so I'm comfortable.  The only real (but minor) issue is that the collar is now too small for the 1800 dust seal - I'm not going to worry about it now, but I will need to find a smaller ID dust seal down the road...
 

[TJ]

There is a Valk frame on e-bay for $199.95 and free shipping....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/99-Honda-Valkyrie-GL1500-1500-Interstate-FRAME-CHASSIS-/381241309081?hash=item58c3c0b799&vxp=mtr

[pago cruiser]

TJ,

That is where I got my salvage frame to start working on.  "Salvage" is actually a misnomer, as it comes with no title.  Bill of sale only:

From Pinwall" THEY COME WITH A BILL OF SALE FROM PINWALL CYCLE PARTS INC. NO TITLE ISSUED. NO MSO ISSUED. THE ORIGINAL TITLE IS RETURNED TO THE STATE OF OHIO WHEN WE DISMANTLE THE VEHICLE. THIS IS OHIO LAW."

I called our local MVD (Tucson) , and they were clueless as to if the frame could ever be titled again.  "We would have to see the paperwork and the frame to make a determination".  Great help.

So I'll use this one to figure out exactly how to do the frame mods, and once the engine is in and I have a roller, I'll then make the same, or "Revision 1" mods to a titled frame. 

Had a little setback this am.  Went out to start working on the patio, and I kept swatting away bugs.  Big bugs.  FREAKIN BEES!  Seems between last Sunday and this am, a swarm moved into a wall cavity in our house, on the patio wall.  While I'm as much an environmentalist as any reasonably sane person, once on my turf, they're dead.  Same with rattlers and scorpions and tarantulas and black widows.  DEAD.

Tried a half dozen different sprays, and nothing worked.  Tried WD40.  Carb Cleaner.  Gunk. Chain Lube.  I was about ready to get out the wife's hairspray can and my zippo...  but I had not had enough to drink yet...

Called half a dozen exterminators/bee guys.  "Please call back Monday thru Friday, 8 to 5".  Did get ahold of a couple bee guys (not the chain exterminators).  None wanted to "catch and relocate".  Seems all bees in our area are now Africanized honey bees, and while their attitude has amped up, their honey production is a fraction of what it was.  Finally got one guy to come out.  We are way out in the sticks, and he was on his fourth call today in our maybe 5 sq mile area doing the same thing.  He said it is the busiest he has been in 40 years...  WTF?

We pulled off the facia, then he hit em with his smoker, then he started spraying, which really riled them up.  He then lit off a couple chemical bombs in the wall.  Once they started coming out I headed back into the house; they were none too happy.  Wish I could have got better pics.  The last one was as he was digging the hive remnants out of the wall. 







What a royal pita...  6 hours killing the local wildlife so I can start wrenching...

This would have been much more satisfying:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2sC29_XR88
 

[pago cruiser]

More Bee stuff.
After they were all dead, I had to clean out the subfloor area.  Pulled out about 2 hard hats worth of bees.  Then their honeycomb structures.







Amazing little devils.  They did all this in no more than 1-2 weeks.  Now if I could just get them to make those honeycomb structures in aluminum, I think I might be able to retire before I die...

For those folks un-accustomed to Bee lore, we (AZ) have bee sting fatalities with some regularity.   These suckers can be nasty:

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/top-10-killer-bee-attacks-in-arizona-6652144

[pago cruiser]

And now back to our originally scheduled programming...

The GL1800 shock mount is an interesting designed piece.  Some sketches pilfered from some of the GL1800 gurus:





Picked up the shock lower mounts this afternoon.  A friend of a forum member made these up and was gracious enough to share the program.  Turned it over to my NC guy, and these arrived a couple weeks later.





The big bracket (6061 Al) will be bolted to a new welded frame crossmember, basically in place of that lightweight tube the sidestand is bolted to.  Then the steel arms (rising links) of mild steel will connect it all together.

Once I get the new bottom crossmember welded in, then the rest of the bottom mount is a bolt up.  

Then I can do the top.  At which point I'm prolly going to have to do a little frame bending.  The rear lower frame tube just interferes with the swingarm at the top of its arc.  



The lower frame boss needs to be bent out about half an inch to clear.  Have another friend who just grafted a Ducati single sided swingarm onto a CBX.  He went through a similar process; cutting, relieving, bending, welding, and reinforcing to let the wider Duc swingarm fit within the CBX frame.  This should be fun....

Once I have this and then get the top mount welded between the frame rails,  I'll have a roller, ready for the engine.  I'm travelling this weekend to pick up the donor GL1800.  A 10 hour day on the road.  Ugh.