Definitive information on timing belt intervals. Informational

[slabghost]

regardless of laws or factory recommendations. New belts are cheap peace of mind. I haven't changed the belts in my Subaru with over 160k miles on it. It's a 98. However on 4 tires if the motor blows I'm still relatively safe. I've had one bike motor lock up at speed. Not an experience I care to repeat.

[Patrick]

It has taken longer to read this thread than to do the job itself.

[98valk]

So the front page of the Gates manual http://www.gates.com/~/media/Files/Gates/Automotive/Catalogs/Automotive/TimingBeltReplacementGuide.pdf
 states like nogrey posted
Avoid Costly Engine Damage;
Change Your Timing Belt At
The Recommended Interval
Or Every 72 Months,
Which Ever Comes First.

However the Third page states the following BELOW...so which is it??
if gates is stating their belts are OE-equivalent or better in service life and according to most GW1500 sites gates makes the OEM belts, then when honda states in the service manual of their FLAGSHIP MODEL inspect the belts at 100k miles and replace only if visible wear, and DOES NOT STATE A TIME/AGE LIMIT (does one think honda wants failures on their bike) so who is right, Gates first page?, their second page which agrees with the service manual?, or honda's service manual?
also remember the T275 isn't even listed in this manual. Actually I have yet to find a Gates manual that lists this number.

Timing Belts
Gates timing belts are OE-equivalent or better in service life and performance.
• Aramid reinforced nylon jackets and back side jackets for longer wear.
• High grade HNBR rubber for superior heat and contamination resistance.
• Premium high strength tensile members.
• Unlike some competitors, Gates does not substitute inferior belt constructions for premium
constructions specified by the OEM on any application.
• Most extensive coverage in the industry. Import or Domestic.

[slabghost]

So the front page of the Gates manual http://www.gates.com/~/media/Files/Gates/Automotive/Catalogs/Automotive/TimingBeltReplacementGuide.pdf
 states like nogrey posted
Avoid Costly Engine Damage;
Change Your Timing Belt At
The Recommended Interval
Or Every 72 Months,
Which Ever Comes First.

However the Third page states the following BELOW...so which is it??
if gates is stating their belts are OE-equivalent or better in service life and according to most GW1500 sites gates makes the OEM belts, then when honda states in the service manual of their FLAGSHIP MODEL inspect the belts at 100k miles and replace only if visible wear, and DOES NOT STATE A TIME/AGE LIMIT (does one think honda wants failures on their bike) so who is right, Gates first page?, their second page which agrees with the service manual?, or honda's service manual?
also remember the T275 isn't even listed in this manual. Actually I have yet to find a Gates manual that lists this number.

Timing Belts
Gates timing belts are OE-equivalent or better in service life and performance.
• Aramid reinforced nylon jackets and back side jackets for longer wear.
• High grade HNBR rubber for superior heat and contamination resistance.
• Premium high strength tensile members.
• Unlike some competitors, Gates does not substitute inferior belt constructions for premium
constructions specified by the OEM on any application.
• Most extensive coverage in the industry. Import or Domestic.

Every manufacturer including Honda wants their products to fail at some point. They want you to buy again not run the same bike forever.

[John Lane]

So when can I come over?

Hey Ken
I'll help you change the belts if I can use your digisynch, I have my tire machine and balancer ready to go. Bummer is I have thursday-friday rest days
LocoMech

[baldo]

Not to hijack the thread, but how do you like that Digisynch?

Bob

[The emperor has no clothes]

Not to hijack the thread, but how do you like that Digisynch?

Bob

I love mine. Carb synch is so easy and quick now and accurate. Definitely worth the money 

[Grandpot]

Some people like to do Preventive Maintenance so they can avoid having problems on the road, others wait until a part fails while they are doing 80 MPH down the interstate and then fix it after they get out of the Hospital.  It's your decision.  Just saying!

[Willow]

Some people like to do Preventive Maintenance so they can avoid having problems on the road, others wait until a part fails while they are doing 80 MPH down the interstate and then fix it after they get out of the Hospital.  It's your decision.  Just saying!

I have no problem with someone changing his timing belts if it gives him peace of mind.  That would indeed be the right thing to do.

Applying your logic about a failure at 80 miles per hour to timing belts would only make sense if there were some supporting evidence of some timing belts (there are thousands out there in use) failing.

[desertrefugee]

Changing timing belts on 4 cylinder Goldwings didn't used to be espoused with such fervor, either.

Until they started getting old.

[slabghost]

Some people like to do Preventive Maintenance so they can avoid having problems on the road, others wait until a part fails while they are doing 80 MPH down the interstate and then fix it after they get out of the Hospital.  It's your decision.  Just saying!

I have no problem with someone changing his timing belts if it gives him peace of mind.  That would indeed be the right thing to do.

Applying your logic about a failure at 80 miles per hour to timing belts would only make sense if there were some supporting evidence of some timing belts (there are thousands out there in use) failing.

I have personally had 3 timing belts fail. In cages. One was an interference motor like the Wings and Valks. It had to be scrapped.
My question to you is why you seem to be so against changing the belts? If the manufacturer said oil needed changed ever 50K miles would you wait so long? Oil won't wear out. But what known internal combustion motor won't foul the oil?

[DK]

I'm changing mine at 15 years & 20,000 miles.

My primary concern is not so much the belts as the idler / tensioner bearings.

At 14 years of age when I purchased it, my Valk had 9,000 miles on the odometer. This tells me it spent a lot of time sitting idle, most likely for long periods of time in unknown storage conditions.

Bearings rust and pit. You do not have to spray water on them for rust to occur. Heating and cooling  or just being in the wrong enviorment will do it. Things like my lathe chucks will rust in my shop just from the atmosphere unless I either use them often enough or wipe them down with oil periodically.

My only timing belt fail was an older four cam sports car with extremely low mileage that had spent years in storage. An idler shucked its balls which then got caught between the belt and a cam sprocket. The belt survived ok, but the sprocket was trashed. The bearing races were rust pitted and blued from the heat.

I have two friends who own auto repair businesses. Neither of them will do a timing belt replacement without replacing the tensioners, idlers and the water pump. If the customer does not want to spend the extra $$$, they refuse the job.

Valks make too many strange noises for me to be worrying about whether they are coming from the timing belt or a tensioner / idler bearing.

Dan

[Grandpot]

This is a really interesting thread with extreme polar opinions.  I think the only other topic that could raise so much activity would be whether or not to wear a helmet.

[BonS]

This is a really interesting thread with extreme polar opinions.  I think the only other topic that could raise so much activity would be whether or not to wear a helmet.

Or maybe when to replace your helmet. The Snell foundations says to replace one every five years but no mileage limit was suggested.

[98valk]

This is a really interesting thread with extreme polar opinions.  I think the only other topic that could raise so much activity would be whether or not to wear a helmet.

Or maybe when to replace your helmet. The Snell foundations says to replace one every five years but no mileage limit was suggested.

u think they just want to sell helmets and shell wants their money for testing new ones every yr?
for materials that take a century to degrade. interesting that a few helmet makers are now warrantee their helmets for 7yrs. same materials being used.
this is a bicycle helmet site, but same materials are used and they reference back and forth about motorcycle and bicycle helmets

http://www.bhsi.org/replace.htm

 The Snell Memorial Foundation has tested motorcycle helmets held in storage for more than 20 years and found that they still meet the original standard. EPS is a long-lived material little affected by normal environmental factors. Unless you mistreat it we would not expect it to "dry out" enough to alter its performance for many years.

 The Italian company MET says in their 2010 catalog:
 "We are often asked 'For how long is a helmet safe?', or 'how often should I replace my helmet?”' Until now it has been difficult to find any reliable figures to help answer these queries. MET have now developed a series of tests which are conducted on aged helmets to determine a 'best before' date (unless the helmet is involved in an accident. In that case it should be replaced immediately.). The results indicate that, if used properly accordingly to our owner manual, our helmets will still do their job up to eight years after they have been made. Not only is that good news for the customer, it’s great news for the environment!"

 Occasionally somebody spreads rumors that sweat and ultraviolet (UV) exposure will cause your helmet to degrade. Sweat will not do that. The standards do not permit manufacturers to make a helmet that degrades from sweat, and the EPS, EPP or EPU foam is remarkably unaffected by salt water. Your helmet will get a terminal case of grunge before it dies of sweat. Sunlight can affect the strength of the shell material, though. Since helmets spend a lot of time in the sun, manufacturers usually put UV inhibitors in the plastic for their shells that control UV degradation. If your helmet is fading or showing small cracks around the vents, the UV inhibitors may be failing, so you probably should replace it. Chances are it has seen an awful lot of sun to have that happen. Otherwise, try another brand next time and let us know what brand faded on you.

[Paladin528]

The Timing belt on my first honda Civic said to inspect and replace at 100,000.  Mine was finally replaced at 275,000 and was still in great condition and was about 7 or 8 years old.
Kevlar and synthetics do not rot

[cookiedough]

I'm in the 30K range or above slightly, ONLY 70K miles almost to go.  I think I can wait to do the timing belt?   

That being said,  I have no problems with people doing preventive maintenance even though some might feel it is well below the limits needed.

Same can be said about such items as antifreeze, etc.  Some are religious about it every 2-3 years.  I go every 5-6 years which for me now, is about time for the coolant to be replaced yet again.


Hey, if you feel like changing your synthetic oil every 3K miles, go for it, but once per year is good enough for me.  On my 2 ATV's with synthetic oil used,  it has been well past 2 full years pushing 3 on one of the ATV's, but ONLY 600 miles on the oil.  Will get it done before winter, but in no rush.

[The emperor has no clothes]

The Timing belt on my first honda Civic said to inspect and replace at 100,000.  Mine was finally replaced at 275,000 and was still in great condition and was about 7 or 8 years old.
Kevlar and synthetics do not rot

Dang, you rack up some miles in that Civic

[Moonshot_1]

Interesting conversation here. My take on it.

Our bikes are getting old. I got 2 nearly 17 year old bikes in the garage. Tourer and recently acquired Interstate.  They still turn heads when out on the street which goes to the quality of the bikes. But time has been taking it's toll. Anything rubber, plastic, or leather degrades.

If you found a completely original 97 Valk with 100 miles on it, would you still trust the original tires or would you change them out? I'd likely get some new ones on.

The side covers of my Tourer are held in place by velcro on one side and a well fashioned paper clip on the other. The tabs broke off.

Vacuum hoses (why are there 2 u's in vacuum?) have split on the ends. Insulation on wires getting brittle in places.

One of the things I've noticed since being a part of this board is that you can see trends in things going wrong with the bikes. Petcock is a great example. When problems come up on the boards the mileage and age of the bikes having the problems are pretty similar. It's not exact, it'll fall into a range but when problems are posted on the board and I see a trend I get my bikes checked out.

At this point there hasn't been any kind of trend of timing belt issues. But after 17 years and 10's of thousands of miles, (Tourer going on 100k, Interstate 50k+) why start one?

Besides, a new belt is fashionable on the Phat Gurl and we must keep her happy.

[RonW]

Disclaimer, I've never had the timing belt cover off, so might be a silly question, but why do you need a timing belt? Isn't the timing wheel itself attached to the crankshaft such that the crankshaft rotates the timing wheel anyways? That is, the timing wheel doesn't need a belt to rotate it. What does the timing belt do besides start arguments?

[R J]

The timing belt, each one turns a camshaft in the heads.

[nogrey]

So the front page of the Gates manual http://www.gates.com/~/media/Files/Gates/Automotive/Catalogs/Automotive/TimingBeltReplacementGuide.pdf
 states like nogrey posted
Avoid Costly Engine Damage;
Change Your Timing Belt At
The Recommended Interval
Or Every 72 Months,
Which Ever Comes First.

However the Third page states the following BELOW...so which is it??
if gates is stating their belts are OE-equivalent or better in service life and according to most GW1500 sites gates makes the OEM belts, then when honda states in the service manual of their FLAGSHIP MODEL inspect the belts at 100k miles and replace only if visible wear, and DOES NOT STATE A TIME/AGE LIMIT (does one think honda wants failures on their bike) so who is right, Gates first page?, their second page which agrees with the service manual?, or honda's service manual?
also remember the T275 isn't even listed in this manual. Actually I have yet to find a Gates manual that lists this number.

Timing Belts
Gates timing belts are OE-equivalent or better in service life and performance.
• Aramid reinforced nylon jackets and back side jackets for longer wear.
• High grade HNBR rubber for superior heat and contamination resistance.
• Premium high strength tensile members.
• Unlike some competitors, Gates does not substitute inferior belt constructions for premium
constructions specified by the OEM on any application.
• Most extensive coverage in the industry. Import or Domestic.

I really don't think it really matters. Industry standard for automotive rubber is 6 years replacement. Period. I did a fair amount of research on this before I posted it. BTW, the EPA documents, if you read them closely, only pertain to motorcycles for exhaust gas emissions. Nothing else.

[RonW]

The timing belt, each one turns a camshaft in the heads.

Why of course it does. Was up all night, etc.

[R J]

My response was to this post, not being a smart ass as you are trying to put it.

 

Disclaimer, I've never had the timing belt cover off, so might be a silly question, but why do you need a timing belt? Isn't the timing wheel itself attached to the crankshaft such that the crankshaft rotates the timing wheel anyways? That is, the timing wheel doesn't need a belt to rotate it. What does the timing belt do besides start arguments?

 I was just answering the gentleman's question.

[DK]

Please accept my apology for messing up this thread by mentioning bearings. Maybe I should start a separate thread but it seems to go hand in hand with this discussion.

Ask anyone who does general automotive repair and they will tell you that most timing belt failures are precipated by tensioner or water pump bearing failure. My personal experience is a timing belt failure at 30,000 miles caused by a tensioner bearing failure on an older low mileage car.

There has not been one iota of discussion of bearing failure / replacement in this entire thread other than my completely ignored previous post.

It is inconceivable to me to replace $30.00 worth of belts for the next 100,000 miles and not replace the tensioner bearings. Sure, it is expensive to replace the entire assemblies, but the Goldwing guys are so concerned about keeping fresh bearings that they post 7 ways to cheaply rebuild tensioners:

http://www.sdb-e.com/TENSIONER/TENSIONER-REBUILD-JCS.pdf

See previous VRCC thread:

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,56195.0.html

Why are the Goldwing people so concerned about rebuilding tensioners on basically the same engine? Although we differ on when to do it, our consensus seems to be simply replace the belts, ignore the tensioners & push on.

Maybe I'm crazy, but the bearings scare me more than the belts.

Gates branded T42015 bearings are $18.86 each from Amazon.

It's worth the additional forty bucks to me to not worry about funny noises so much.

Dan

[R J]

I'd say as long as you rebuild the tensioner, go for it, but I wouldn't put out the full price for a set of tensioners.

Sure the tensioners fail, but what I have found is if you tighten them too tight they will ruin a set of tensioners.

[Moonshot_1]

Please accept my apology for messing up this thread by mentioning bearings. Maybe I should start a separate thread but it seems to go hand in hand with this discussion.

Ask anyone who does general automotive repair and they will tell you that most timing belt failures are precipated by tensioner or water pump bearing failure. My personal experience is a timing belt failure at 30,000 miles caused by a tensioner bearing failure on an older low mileage car.

There has not been one iota of discussion of bearing failure / replacement in this entire thread other than my completely ignored previous post.

It is inconceivable to me to replace $30.00 worth of belts for the next 100,000 miles and not replace the tensioner bearings. Sure, it is expensive to replace the entire assemblies, but the Goldwing guys are so concerned about keeping fresh bearings that they post 7 ways to cheaply rebuild tensioners:

http://www.sdb-e.com/TENSIONER/TENSIONER-REBUILD-JCS.pdf

Why are the Goldwing people so concerned about rebuilding tensioners on basically the same engine? Although we differ on when to do it, our consensus seems to be simply replace the belts, ignore the tensioners & push on.

Maybe I'm crazy, but the bearings scare me more than the belts.

Gates branded T42015 bearings are $18.86 each from Amazon.

It's worth the additional forty bucks to me to not worry about funny noises so much.

Dan

It wasn't the mentioning of the bearings. It was the reference to "shucking balls" that was totally unnecessary. That's gotta hurt.

[RonW]

My response was to this post, not being a smart ass as you are trying to put it.

 

Disclaimer, I've never had the timing belt cover off, so might be a silly question, but why do you need a timing belt? Isn't the timing wheel itself attached to the crankshaft such that the crankshaft rotates the timing wheel anyways? That is, the timing wheel doesn't need a belt to rotate it. What does the timing belt do besides start arguments?

 I was just answering the gentleman's question.

Thanks, RJ. As said I was up all night, and in this instance, I obviously couldn't see the forest for the trees. The front crashbars sits right on top of the gap between the timing belt's back cover and the front of the engine, which obscures the gap and the fact that the camshafts protrude into the timing belt chamber where the camshafts are driven by the timing belts' outer wheels. I actually do clean that part of the bike, at least, the left side. The right side has the wires routed in the crevice.