UPDATE 1/19/16: Solar pump needs replacing and I have questions.

[John Schmidt]

A long time ago, seemingly another lifetime, I was broke and had to replace my water heater(different house) and couldn't afford a plumber. Come to think of it, I'm still broke.....I'm retired.   I digress! At that time, I talked to a few people and figured out how to sweat the pipes together to install the new heater myself. Frankly, I don't recall all that was needed except I do have the small torch. Now, the problem; the recirculating pump on our solar water heater needs replacing and there's an obvious leak just above it as shown in the pics below. The pump has a tee just above it, the tee is used for the drain faucet shown. The leak is seepage from the center piece of the tee, a piece with only about 1" exposed. The tee is sweated into the top of the pump and the line from the tank up to the pump is sweated into the bottom of the pump. The entire thing is in a small closet in the laundry room and will be a PITA to work on, so I'm wondering why I couldn't shorten the pipe from the tank and run it as shown by the red line in the 3rd picture. Then install the pump in the new vertical section just above the tank.

I called a solar outfit to come take a look and see if they would give me an estimate. I learned two things from him; 1) judging by his conversation, he didn't want the job. 2) he probably had more crap coming out of his mouth(BS) that ever came out the other end. He suggested I disconnect the entire thing and just use the heater alone, saying it wasn't really worth the expense of having the panels on the roof to begin with, saying the payback is too long and not feasible. Well, he's wrong, and it has already paid for itself many times over. You can really tell a difference in the heat of the water when it hasn't been sunny for a couple days. So, if there are any plumbers out there that can advise me on this, I'm open to any and all suggestions. A new pump from most places is well above $200, but I found a new one on Ebay listed by a local company for only $150. That was another thing the guy told me.....the pumps cost in excess of $300 at his price. Not so, I found out, needs a TACO model 006-BC4 and I found numerous ones nowhere near "his" price.

An overall shot. I pulled the insulation away to make sure the leak didn't come from above. You can also see we had to have our house replumbed a few years back, discovered upon our return from a vacation trip. Nice vacation!


Short piece that's leaking, from the center of the tee to the threaded piece for the faucet. I'm thinking there should be available a tee that requires sweating on either end but has a faucet connection in the center. That would dispense with the short piece that is now seeping.


Proposed new routing, placing the pump closer to the front thereby allowing easier access to work on it.

[Dusty]

You should be able to get the  copper fittings at a big box store with sweat on 2 ends of the tee and threaded internal  or external for your drain hose valve.

They may even have some Compression type fittings to hook to the line that is up beside the wall that is going thru the roof.( Saves having to solder the fitting close to the sheetrock). On second thought you could build the whole thing with compression fittings. May cost a couple more dollars for the fittings but you don't have to buy the lead free solder and flux .

I see no problem with moving the pump out from the wall. If the pump is too heavy you may want to support some of it's weight with a strap. Hope this Helps

Dusty

[DirtyDan]

im a plumber/pipefitter

copper pipe is my specialty

you should just be able to pull the hose bib off {thing with red handle}
and clean/replace the short piece if needed assuming the water can be shut off

will watch thread for questions

dan

ps you can probably get a solder by solder by threaded {on the bull- the side outlet} tee at a plumbing supply store if that's what you want

solder lasts longer than screw

if done right

[John Schmidt]

Storms predicted for tomorrow so a trip to HD or Lowes might be in order to kill some time and see what is available. I need to know what type solder and "paste" to use, I have some but don't know if it's the right kind. I would prefer to have something more solid than compression fittings. As for shutting off the water, already done and the roof panels drained. At least they won't be building pressure without any relief except for blowing the safety valve on the roof. Thanks for the advice so far. I'd like nothing more than when the dude calls me back to see what I want to do about repairs, I can just tell him "never mind, I did it myself."   

[DirtyDan]

the best solder I know is called "water pure" make sure its lead free if you are drinking from it

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Utility-14-216-1-2-lb-Paste-Soldering-Flux-w-Brush

"utility flux" brand name

MAKE SURE you CLEAN the pipe {outside} and fitting {inside} with sandpaper and/or a fitting brush for the inside or use sandcloth  and fingers to get insides

DO NOT try to solder pipes with out cleaning them, I don't care what the labels say

I will keep watching

dan

[John Schmidt]

Thanks Dan, for the life of me I couldn't think of the term "flux" but you knew what I was referring to. The only solder I have is either all lead for use on cable ends, or flux core for elec. work on the bike and elsewhere. One of our members, Jeff Parker, works in the plumbing dept. at Home Depot. I'll have to go in and bug him for some stuff, he knows what they have and can help put the project parts list together. 

Do you think it would create a problem if I rerouted the pipe as shown in the last picture? Sure would make it easier(and safer) to move the installation out in the general area of the red line.

[Jess Tolbirt]

use sharkbite connectors the neatest thing since the shirt pocket has been invented

[John Schmidt]

use sharkbite connectors the neatest thing since the shirt pocket has been invented

I've seen those in the store but know nothing about them. Are they reliable on a water connection, any possibility of leaking?

[DirtyDan]

I never heard of sharkbite connectors , can't speak to them

I talking old school soldered copper pipe, or a threaded "bull" of the tee {cross conection}

you want lead free plumbing solder

https://www.plumbingsupply.com/solder.html

as an example, .....read the FAQs ....CLEAN THE PIPE

for the reroute, if its out of the way and "ok" its "good"

let me know

dan

[gordonv]

Shark bits are like those fuel rail connectors now use in the auto industry. Love them (but have never use them yet), but they are about 10x the price as copper. They clamp on, and you use a special tool to remove the clamping pressure and pull it off. Makes it re-usable. Also good when you don't rely know how you want something.

I've now moving over to Pex. Plastic pipes and metal collars crimping them tight onto the barbed connectors. Drawback, reduced ID. In this case, you may not want a reduced flow.

[firea100]

Many yeras ago, I worked at Chrysler Engineering as an experimental mechanic. Worked in fuel and exhaust lab. HAD to know how to sweat solder tubing. Built a house in the '80's. Did all of my own plumbing, never had a leak! I have used those Shark Bites, they work very well. I would use one in your system. Just my 2 cents worth...
Another thought, the pex tubing that I see in your pics also work well. I believe Home Depot or Lowes have crimping tools that you "rent" to use and then return and get your deposit back.
Larry in East China Mi.

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

use sharkbite connectors the neatest thing since the shirt pocket has been invented

I've seen those in the store but know nothing about them. Are they reliable on a water connection, any possibility of leaking?

Sharkbites are good when you can't get water out of a pipe to sweat it ( won't get hot enough when water is in it) and they are supposed to be good 25 to 30 years. If I could get water flow stopped I would prefer a soldered connection. Clean and prep everything as Dan suggested. Heat the fitting until the flame turns green which indicates it is hot and will draw the solder into the connection. 

[John Schmidt]

Great info and tips. Thanks, let you all know what I decide to do....burn the house down or let someone else do it. 

[Hook#3287]

I've used Sharkbites several times at customers houses when doing changes and I didn't want to bother my plumber or sweat pipes.

Their expensive, but EASY & QUICK and can be reused or changed if needed.

Don't forget to get the right sized removal tool.

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

I've used Sharkbites several times at customers houses when doing changes and I didn't want to bother my plumber or sweat pipes.

Their expensive, but EASY & QUICK and can be reused or changed if needed.

Don't forget to get the right sized removal tool.

I know they work, used one for the first time 3 weeks ago where water wouldn't shut off. Just can't wrap my mind around them sealing water tight and yet still spin on the pipe 

[FloridaValkRyder]

I know they work, used one for the first time 3 weeks ago where water wouldn't shut off. Just can't wrap my mind around them sealing water tight and yet still spin on the pipe 

The "Shark teeth" and the sealing ring don't move, the fitting turns around them and the pipe inserted into them. .

[Jess Tolbirt]

i have been using them for about 5 years now in our apt. complex on water heaters,, have not had one bit of problem out of them, in fact i havent fired up the torch in years to do any sweating,,

[John Schmidt]

UPDATE: The years are catching up to me at times it would appear. Once I picked up the new pump, I was surprised by the weight and felt it would not be a good idea to have that much hanging off to the side of slip on connections like Shark Bite. So I opted for sweating out/in the old/new stuff....and this is where the aging thing came into play. I have a bum hip which gives me some pain most of the time and really intense at other times. I found that standing on a short step ladder, one of those little 2' jobs, then bending over slightly to reach everything for extended periods was more than I could withstand. I drained everything and shut off the pipes that are involved in the circulation, then started to sweat the old out. Almost had it but simply couldn't outlast it, so I finally broke down and called the outfit where I had bought the new pump. Told little "Miss Super Friendly" on the phone what I was up against and was told she fully understands, her great-grandfather has the same problem(you little witch)  . After almost biting my tongue in half, I asked for help from someone not of my generation. Young guy showed up this morning at 8:15, what the hey....middle of the night.    Real nice dude, showed him where I was in the process and using my came to point out the problem areas. Well, 30 minutes later he's asking for $130 and a signature. Gladly....here's the "after" picture, compare it to the first picture above. Runs so quiet you can barely hear it, the old pump sounded like a stone polishing barrel, glad it's done....under $300 total, parts & labor. Not bad considering the first jerk that looked at it was telling me the pump alone was over $300 at his cost, plus nearly as much in labor. I have all new parts for under $300 so can't wait for him to call back to see if I want it fixed. For as long as it took the guy to fix it this morning(here less than 1 hr.), I was a little surprised at the price but it was worth it to have it done, we have company coming in mid-February. For now, everything is back to abnormal at the "Schmidt House."   

[Hook#3287]

I was surprised by the weight and felt it would not be a good idea to have that much hanging off to the side of slip on connections like Shark Bite. So I opted for sweating out/in

I have to agree with you on that one.

After I posted earlier, I was wondering if the pump would cause stress on the connectors when turning on, didn't even think about the weight.

Looks good.

[old2soon]

Glad ya got er whipped! Well-the hired help did!  This gittin old chit fer sure and fer certain AIN'T fer wimps!  When a bulb burns out in a ceiling fixture I have EVERYTHING lined up ahead of time and consider myself extremely lucky iffin I ONLY go up the ladder twice!  Take care John!  RIDE SAFE.

[DirtyDan]

glad you got it fixed

looks good in the picture

im always available for online plumbing advice

dan

[John Schmidt]

glad you got it fixed

looks good in the picture

im always available for online plumbing advice

dan

Good to know Dan. I told the guy I'd take care of hooking up the electric and opening up the pipes again, you know how it blasts the air out of a line. He just laughed and told me to stay put and he'd finish the job since I had already removed the wiring ahead of time and drained the panels. Told me that saved him some time so had no problem doing the rest for me. OK....go for it. 

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

Glad all is well and you got it done reasonably. Always best to let them put the water to it in the rare chance there is a leak.