wrecks

[mark81]

Brittman Smokinjoe I've seen in a couple posts here that you feel at least partially responsible for wrecks on rides you have lead.  This is a bit of a fresh and touchy situation for me. A little bittersweet because if I had not made the decision last September to not lead the ride I would probably not be in pain every day. I would still have my cb750c and probably not my valk.

   Let me start off by saying that every single time I ride with one or more of my friends it is voted that I lead. (Must be my sexy ass) On this particular evening my friend and I were out for a ride and stopped for a drink. (It is also voted that I carry everyone's crap and at least a dozen bottles of water since I was the only one with bags) I checked my messages and my brother had just left bike night at a local restaurant and wanted to meet up. We went to his place and I decided I was not going to lead the group that night. The 3 of us headed out with my brother in the lead and me in the rear. It was kind of nice not making the decisions of where to go. I got to ride some nice roads I didn't know about. Fast foward a couple hours and we're heading up Rt 4,  my brother semi aggressively slowed to make a right turn. As he turned and we slowed to make the turn I ended up next to my friend riding in the middle instead of behind him.

That's the last thing I remember before rolling down the road and crying like a little girl while choking on broken teeth. 

When we all 3 slowed to make the turn, almost came to a complete stop, the driver in the car behind us plowed straight into the back of me doing 60mph. My brother made the turn, my friend was halfway through and got clipped and laid his bike down. No injuries to either of them. I had injuries to my entire left side and back as well as several chipped teeth. I can only imagine how bad it would have been without a helmet. Still have days I can't stand up due to back pain. I was told that I bounced off the car so hard I was launched about 30 feet in the air and ended up about 150 feet away. I remember laying there and there was a man asking me questions.  I asked him if my brother and friend friend were ok and explaining that they were both named Chris. He said he was my brother. He was 18" away looking straight at me and I didn't know who my brother was. I remembered his name but didn't recognize his face.

Couple days in the hospital few months of physical therapy and laying on mom's couch and I'm still alive.

During this time I have thought a lot about who to blame for this. Was it my brothers fault for stopping abruptly? Mine for not leading when I always do?  The guy that hit me? (BTW he had no drivers license, no insurance, not a U.S. citizen, not his car, no grasp of the english language, the same with the owner of the car)

I came up with the conclusion that I was raised in a Catholic home and although I do not necessarily identify myself as catholic I am a Christian and do believe in God. Therefore it is God's fault. There is a plan for my life and this is just a part of it. If I had lead that night I don't know what the outcome would have been. We probably wouldn't have been in that place at that time, it could have been worse or nothing might have happened that night.

I do know that I have ridden behind my brother since then and he has ridden behind me and the trust is still there. Bad things happen you can't control. Don't stop doing what you do because of things beyond your control. Don't second guess yourself, the people following you aren't second guessing you. 

That was a bit more than I anticipated writing.

[Jess from VA]

Mark, that is a compelling story.

After reading it I have no trouble at all identifying the person at fault for this mishap.  Neither should you.

IT'S THIS GUY:  The guy that hit me? (BTW he had no drivers license, no insurance, not a U.S. citizen, not his car, no grasp of the English language, the same with the owner of the car)

Sudden stops (or slowing down fast) in traffic should be avoided for sure (mirrors!). 

A ride leader's primary concern should be the relative safety of his flock.  That includes the route/roads, time, distance, weather, speeds, stops, gas, and good judgment during the ride (and try to throw in some fun).  All these things go into a best-scenerio-ride-day.  But that is all it is, the rest of riders are also responsible for their own safety and assume the same degree of risk everyone shares. 

But when a cage rams into people from behind like (failure to stop within the assured clear distance ahead), 100 percent of the fault leaps to him.  This is legally... assessing additional moral fault about what-if's is a slippery slope.  You can plan and prepare all you want and shave your risks, but you cannot avoid them entirely, and bad karma can still take anyone out.  I would try not to blame myself for bad karma..... there seems to be so much of it these days.

[old2soon]

My belief is on the question of accidents-crap happens. Planning-riding within your own skill set and choosing good routes go only so far. Had an experienced rider lead a P G R funeral procession who had NEVER been to that cemetery before til I took him in my cage. Our control as ride leaders and riders-again goes only so far. I related awhile back about that friend of mine riding his new trike right into a ditch. Totally completely utterly helpless. I was in my cage he was on his new motor. I watched and could NOT do a cursed thing to help him. All my driving/riding/racing expertise did my friend exactly NO good. We can't help feeling bad when a friend or another rider we slightly know goes down on a ride of ours. Fault? Laying THAT particular beast in the proper place is always hard or difficult at best. I've seen a few riders go in that really had sexual intercourse with a canine. I've seen others go in because of mechanical failures/issues. I've seen bad results because of an idiotic cage driver. As far as I could determine NONE of them were in any way shape or form my fault. BUT I still felt bad about them going down.  As I stated at the top-sit happens!  RIDE SAFE.

[mark81]

I've seen a few riders go in that really had sexual intercourse with a canine.

Never heard it put in those exact words before.   

[DirtyDan]

"BTW he had no drivers license, no insurance, not a U.S. citizen, not his car, no grasp of the english language, the same with the owner of the car"

glad you are still with us

dan

[Willow]

That's a scary story.  I'm glad you came through it alive.

...
 I am a Christian and do believe in God. Therefore it is God's fault. There is a plan for my life and this is just a part of it. ...

Like you I place the credit for a lot of what happens on Him.  He's not only the One in control of when the incident happens but also for my survival, my recovery, and the life lessons drawn from the incident.  There may come a day when you, with me, will look back with some gratitude for the "evil" things that have happened to us.

To the original thought, I would hate to see Joe stop leading rides.  I'm sure he's deeply regretful for pain and injury that has happened behind him.  What may be missing is how much riders have benefitted and learned from riding behind him.  What may be overlooked is where those riders would seek out an opportunity to ride were his ride not available and what bad things might happen because they had gone to a ride led by a less meticulous group rider.   I hope Joe keeps up his contribution to others and himself by leading the rides he does.   

[KY,Dave (AKA Misunderstood)]

To the original thought, I would hate to see Joe stop leading rides.  I'm sure he's deeply regretful for pain and injury that has happened behind him.  What may be missing is how much riders have benefitted and learned from riding behind him.  What may be overlooked is where those riders would seek out an opportunity to ride were his ride not available and what bad things might happen because they had gone to a ride led by a less meticulous group rider.   I hope Joe keeps up his contribution to others and himself by leading the rides he does.   

Agree totally as one that has had the pleasure and benefit of riding with Joe 

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I've met some great folks because of the VRCC and the Valkyrie some I'll call friends to the end of my days. What happened to Forster just rattled me however I've been on several rides since mostly with the core group I ride with all the time . I was on this ride below ( not leading ) and split when the group left for Cherohala Skyline. Not saying a voice in my head said " Don't Go " but something gave me a uneasy feeling when we was getting ready to leave. I had ( 3 ) friends hurt and ( 1 ) killed after I left the group. So glad I wasn't there.

[Oss]

I've had people make fun of my hit-air jacket

Never had the need to watch it inflate (knock on wood) these past 8 yrs.

We all know how dangerous it is to live free and ride and we all take our own measure of
what we will do and not do

I've always thought that someday someone somewhere will turn in front of me and then just STOP

I dont stay awake at night over it I bought that jacket and put it in the recess of my mind

Joe dont you stop doing your rides unless YOU want to.  You owe no apology or explanation to anyone

At the end of my days, I will still count you and many others among the blessings of friendship I have enjoyed because of this family of vrcc.

[Mr Whiskey]

For those that don't know, that's my black IS on the right rear of that rollback, so I have some experience with the subject at hand.

Joe, do you still enjoy leading rides?
I ask because, even as bad as that day was for us, Sugar & I wouldn't trade runnin' the roads witcha for no amount of money!!
No Way, No How!
Who else would take us to.....

66(6) The Beast
The Pressman Home
(What was the name of that restaurant in Rogersville, on the creek?)
Elrod Falls
85 The Anaconda
52 (From Livingston to Jamestown, or vice-versa!)
Brasstown Bald
60 T.W.O. (definitely on of my favs!)
321 Watauga Lake
421 The Snake
16 Back of the Dragon

and this is jus' off the top of my head!

From one old scooter bum to another Brother, PRICELESS!

Lastly, the "Gonzo" journalist himself said it best.............




 

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

For those that don't know, that's my black IS on the right rear of that rollback, so I have some experience with the subject at hand.

Joe, do you still enjoy leading rides?
I ask because, even as bad as that day was for us, Sugar & I wouldn't trade runnin' the roads witcha for no amount of money!!
No Way, No How!
Who else would take us to.....

66(6) The Beast
The Pressman Home
(What was the name of that restaurant in Rogersville, on the creek?)
Elrod Falls
85 The Anaconda
52 (From Livingston to Jamestown, or vice-versa!)
Brasstown Bald
60 T.W.O. (definitely on of my favs!)
321 Watauga Lake
421 The Snake
16 Back of the Dragon

and this is jus' off the top of my head!

From one old scooter bum to another Brother, PRICELESS!

Lastly, the "Gonzo" journalist himself said it best.............




 

I was hoping you would add to this thread since I wasn't there I don't need to be making a comment on  " What Happened " . Whiskey Man its always a pleasure riding with you and those friends until the end of my days ... You are one