Just changed the oil...for the 4th time in 6500 miles.

[dinosnake]

see my two oil analysis posts.  I really liked how the Amsoil 10w30/30 HD diesel oil shifted this is in GL1500 Valkyrie.  just a little pricey. I ran the oil out to 8k miles and did another analysis it came back still good for continued use. probably was good to 10-12k miles.

Thank you for all those great links!

And: "Pricey" is relative, I'm sure.

One of the main reasons (there are 3) that I'm using Shell Rotella is:

a) my local motorcycle dealer pretty much only has the 2 Honda oils (G and HP), not much else
b) the Honda HP4S gave me notchy shifting, and finally
c) HP4S at the dealer was $14.99 a quart.  4 quarts x $14.99 + $12 oil filter + tax...you do the math.  An $80 oil change for a bike  ???  4 changes a year, if done at 5K = $360 just in oil and filters.  And if I want to keep changing the oil at 3K...can anyone say, OUCH!

Even if I keep the Rotella T6 @ 3K intervals, that 6 changes a year @ $35/change = $210, again for the 3K frequency.  I'm just concerned about the cat, as I've just read that T6 can cause cat problems on certain models (I'm still researching, catalysts that meet a certain spec)

your welcome  
Rotella is a great oil. There were members posting yrs ago who were running it out to 10k miles, with a filter change at 5k miles. they had over 100k on the bikes no problems at all.
All I can suggest is to do one Used Oil Analysis (UOA) at 3k miles, see the report, and you most likely will never do 3k changes ever again. They are a waste of time, money and resources. Boxer engines have very, very low wear.
yep, cats don't like high phosphorus, all the new diesels have cats, so I believe the new specs have lower levels.  Rotella or other sites should specify this.
can see last yrs levels here. it shows 1250 PPM is max allowed. I am using Delo 10w30 right now.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/consolidated%20HDEO%202015.html

this site also has a couple of advisories for Lucas products, one is their 15w40 diesel oil actually spec'd out at 10w40. there was a test yrs ago about how their gear oil would foam up, aerate real quick thereby not providing any protection, meaning they skimped on the anti-foaming additives.

I do 3K oil changes because the roads are absolutely terrible, on July 5th I sat in almost 5 straight hours of stop and go traffic.  The road conditions are so bad that I just found out that my front rim has gotten bent by a pothole    So now I'll have to try to get it straightened out during the off season 

I've sat in horrible traffic you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy, so I go with the severe service plan.

[98valk]

[/quote]
I do 3K oil changes because the roads are absolutely terrible, on July 5th I sat in almost 5 straight hours of stop and go traffic.  The road conditions are so bad that I just found out that my front rim has gotten bent by a pothole    So now I'll have to try to get it straightened out during the off season 

I've sat in horrible traffic you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy, so I go with the severe service plan.
[/quote]

somewhere yrs ago about when better oils came out and oil monitoring came out OEMs included stop and go severe conditions to also mean traffic conditions, it never used to mean that, it always meant start and shut off less than 5 miles btwn each, whereas the oil never gets up to temperature to burn off acids and fuel from starting, common with carburetors almost none existent with fuel injection. And this is about when they changed their wording. Think they want to increase oil change sales?

this is an old test, 20 yrs ago, the oil today is much, much better. NY taxis were used.
http://www.xs11.com/xs11-info/tech-tips/maintenance/oil---lubrication/58-the-surprising-truth-about-motor-oils.html

http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/oil-life-monitoring-systems.html

I could go on. Do an UOA at 3k miles and u will see.  cost $20-25 but will save much time and money in the future.

And there was an oil test done yrs ago by Motorcycle consume news, Honda oils were by far the worst of the lot for wear, yet honda still recommends 8k miles oil change for the GW 1500 with their oil.

And if one is using a K-N air filter that will show up in a UOA.

[rjwmoto]

You should only use the OEM filter. I work for a prominent motorcycle race team and have seen the results of using a "will fit" oil filter.
The parts inside the filter are the difference. Bypass valve specifically. When you start your engine, there is no oil pressure for some period of time. The oil bypasses the filter until a certain pressure is achieved. The bypass valve also operates when the pressure is too high, to keep the filter media from blowing out and clogging the oil system.
When a manufacturer designs an engine, they design it using the parameters of their oil filter bypass valve setting.
When Purolator (or some other filter manufacturer) designs an oil filter, they use a setting for the bypass valve that will work under most conditions. Not specifically for your application. To make matters worse, those filters are almost all designed for a car application and "will fit" your motorcycle.
There was an instance in the MotoAmerica series this year with a racer using a K&N oil filter on his R1. The bypass valve closed because the setting was not correct for the R1, and it blew out the o-ring spraying oil on the track and his headers causing his bike to catch fire.
MotoAmerica subsequently banned the use of aftermarket oil filters on the R1. Probably should have done so for everyone.
OEM filter is the only one designed for your engine.

[98valk]

You should only use the OEM filter. I work for a prominent motorcycle race team and have seen the results of using a "will fit" oil filter.
The parts inside the filter are the difference. Bypass valve specifically. When you start your engine, there is no oil pressure for some period of time. The oil bypasses the filter until a certain pressure is achieved. The bypass valve also operates when the pressure is too high, to keep the filter media from blowing out and clogging the oil system.
When a manufacturer designs an engine, they design it using the parameters of their oil filter bypass valve setting.
When Purolator (or some other filter manufacturer) designs an oil filter, they use a setting for the bypass valve that will work under most conditions. Not specifically for your application. To make matters worse, those filters are almost all designed for a car application and "will fit" your motorcycle.
There was an instance in the MotoAmerica series this year with a racer using a K&N oil filter on his R1. The bypass valve closed because the setting was not correct for the R1, and it blew out the o-ring spraying oil on the track and his headers causing his bike to catch fire.
MotoAmerica subsequently banned the use of aftermarket oil filters on the R1. Probably should have done so for everyone.
OEM filter is the only one designed for your engine.

the rider/mechanic was an idiot for not checking if the oil filter of choice had the same relief rating or none was needed, and sounds like the filter was not correctly installed.
and looking on line, looks like that engine has internal by-pass and relief valves and the filter is listed as cartridge filter which most likely has no by-pass valve, just like some chevy V-8s. so putting on a filter with a by-pass valve will cause an oil filter failure.

[Robert]

I dont think the explanation of the bypass valve is correct in rjwmoto post. A bypass/relief valve will not open till a specific pressure and even open the oil still goes into the bearings and engine, it does not get dumped out. It only is there if the pressure differential for the oil going into the filter is more than the pressure the valve was designed for because of the restriction of the filter is greater than the pressure on the valve. But either way it may restrict the flow of oil to the engine  but wont cut it off. Oil flows through the filter at all times even when the valve operates.

 If its a cartridge filter then they dont make them with separate bypass valves. The oil ring blowing out should not have happened regardless of the bypass valve.

If a pressure relief valve doesn't operate then that will blow out the filter. That valve does actually bypass engine internals and the oil goes directly back into the crankcase.

[rjwmoto]

Regardless of how you understand the inner workings of an oil filter, the point is the same: aftermarket oil filters are not the right thing for your bike. The mechanic was an idiot for installing a K&N unit and not an OEM filter. They used a K&N filter because it was free and K&N said it was the right part. Turned out to be very expensive and certainly not the right part.

[Robert]

Regardless of how you understand the inner workings of an oil filter, the point is the same: aftermarket oil filters are not the right thing for your bike. The mechanic was an idiot for installing a K&N unit and not an OEM filter. They used a K&N filter because it was free and K&N said it was the right part. Turned out to be very expensive and certainly not the right part.

I would like to know the reason this failed since K&N usually makes decent filters and to blame aftermarket filters or even K&N for this is a bit of a stretch. I am not trying to say not to use OEM filters and am not saying it was not the K&N since I was not there but I am shocked if the real culprit was the K&N. I have seen some leave the old gaskets on the engine and then the new filter has one and then the seal does blow out since its not supported by the filter. Most Any aftermarket manufacture has the same production standards as the OEM filter since most are not made by Honda or most MFGs. All filters even factory can fail so this example or story is not a good one for your example. This sounds more like installer error than filter problem. Been there done that.

  As an example I would have to say construction wise the K&N filter for our bikes is actually made stronger than the OEM filter. One more thing the gasket on a filter is actually in a groove in the filter itself. Its done to hold the seal in place on install and removal and during use. Sometimes the seal does not stay in the groove when you remove the filter the seal stays on the engine that is what this sounds like.

The problem with using an aftermarket filter is not usually  the external failures but the flow rate and bypass valves.

[98valk]

Regardless of how you understand the inner workings of an oil filter, the point is the same: aftermarket oil filters are not the right thing for your bike. The mechanic was an idiot for installing a K&N unit and not an OEM filter. They used a K&N filter because it was free and K&N said it was the right part. Turned out to be very expensive and certainly not the right part.

please provide documentation and test reports to back that up about only using OEM. Please, please provide them!
Who do u think makes OEMs?, the same companies who make the aftermarket filters which are designed, built and to function to match OEM.  This is 2016 and u are spewing the same mistruths from 30 yrs ago, maybe longer. U must be a stealer who wants to sell way overpriced OEM parts.

[rjwmoto]

I'm certain any aftermarket filter sold here in the US is not made by Toyo Roki.

I'm also very certain the technical experts that work for the race series are correct in their investigation, which concluded the aftermarket filter was at fault. Hence the reason for banning aftermarket oil filters.

I just remembered why I don't post on forums.

Use whatever oil filter you want, sorry for suggesting something that might help.

[98valk]

 it is a temporary band of after market oil filters for Yamaha R1 bikes Only, pending further investigation. And the race official making the decision at this time is a Yamaha executive. A little conflict there?

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/motoamerica-mandating-oem-oil-filters-for-yamaha-yzf-r1-racebikes/

[Robert]

All teams should possess the correct tools and torque specifications to install oil filters and

 prevent the distortion of the gaskets. Filters must be safety wired.

I would hate to see you not post but with the broad canvass you painted its hard not to challenge the statements made. Knowing that many use aftermarket filters and most MFGs dont make their filters and filter manufactures that make them for dealers make their own private label filters.

Someone who viewed your statement and doesn't know about filters would be terrified to use anything other than a dealer filter. That is how miss information starts, dont stop posting just be specific in your statement or give example. We all want to learn and believe it or not it has taken time and experience to get there. We all want to provide the best advise but wrong information is so easy to take hold of.

I agree with you can not go wrong with the OEM filters but there are other motorcycle mfg filter companies that are just as acceptable.

Let me add this I would think that all that come to this board would be happy knowing they can get correct technical information. In fact we have some very knowledgeable people here and incomplete statements will be challenged, I have had to rethink a few things myself. So don't get upset come give what you have to offer or just join in but know that when incomplete information is offered it may be challenged. This is good for all including the one who offers it since we all love our machines and want to be correct in what we do for them. 

[ledany]

I don't really understand a quarrel about oil filters, the price of the OEM is not so high compared to the aftermarket ? And I changed the filter each and every 8000 mls !

[Kidd]

I can't get the f'in  oem filter  off
K&N has a hex head  on theirs , for people just like me

[hubcapsc]

I can't get the f'in  oem filter  off
K&N has a hex head  on theirs , for people just like me

They've got sumo wrestlers in there putting on the OEM ones at the factory...

I went to Advance and got a cheap filter wrench that fits, and the OEM
filter came off pretty easy...

-Mike

[st2sam]

Someone who viewed your statement and doesn't know about filters would be terrified to use anything other than a dealer filter.
Let me add this I would think that all that come to this board would be happy knowing they can get correct technical information. In fact we have some very knowledgeable people here and incomplete statements will be challenged, I have had to rethink a few things myself. So don't get upset come give what you have to offer or just join in but know that when incomplete information is offered it may be challenged. This is good for all including the one who offers it since we all love our machines and want to be correct in what we do for them. 

So true Robert and nicely said. 
+ You are a man of great patience.

Who knows, maybe one day I'll get to meet and shake your hand...  

[Robert]

Someone who viewed your statement and doesn't know about filters would be terrified to use anything other than a dealer filter.
Let me add this I would think that all that come to this board would be happy knowing they can get correct technical information. In fact we have some very knowledgeable people here and incomplete statements will be challenged, I have had to rethink a few things myself. So don't get upset come give what you have to offer or just join in but know that when incomplete information is offered it may be challenged. This is good for all including the one who offers it since we all love our machines and want to be correct in what we do for them. 

So true Robert and nicely said. 
+ You are a man of great patience.

Who knows, maybe one day I'll get to meet and shake your hand...  

Look forward to it and thanks.

[Kidd]

I bought 2 wrenches  for filters , still can't

I can't get the f'in  oem filter  off
K&N has a hex head  on theirs , for people just like me

They've got sumo wrestlers in there putting on the OEM ones at the factory...

I went to Advance and got a cheap filter wrench that fits, and the OEM
filter came off pretty easy...

-Mike

[98valk]

[quote author=rjwmoto link=topic=88804.msg884247#msg884247

I just remembered why I don't post on forums.

Use whatever oil filter you want, sorry for suggesting something that might help.
[/quote]

suggesting something which is not the latest info and relating race track conditions for a 10k+ rpm race bike to a street bike is no help except to scare people. And it seems this is one failure on one track, no reported failures anyplace else.
That's like posting XYZ drive chain had one failure on a 200HP race bike under race track conditions so don't ever use that brand on a street bike.

[hungryeye]

I spent most my working life in the heavy haul trucking bidness, in the early 90's I remember an article in an industry publication written by Shell oil that said changing oil more frequently than recommended would not allow a certain element in the oil to be beaten into the metal which was necessary for longevity. I can't remember any more detail it was along time ago. Just thought I'd throw that out for thought. I don't clam to be an expert on anything but I do stay at Holiday inn Express when traveling.

[AdrianR]

I remember an article n an industry publication written by Shell oil that said changing oil more frequently than recommended would not allow a certain element in the oil to be beaten into the metal which was necessary for longevity. I can't remember any more detail it was along time ago.