Our borders must be real easy to cross.

[Oss]

I hear you Jess, just that I know how many are killed by mines after the supposed signs fall down are removed or what have you

Of course  A sign in Spanish that says BEWARE OF MINES is not the same thing as a Mine but is a deterrent isnt it

Now exploding dye packs like the banks use for currency being stolen, that send a gps signal to come and get the tresspasser,  (whether tied to camera or pressure activated) that I could live with, a mine, nope

a young child is just  defenseless and unable to choose not to follow the parent

[Serk]

I'm gonna put forward some logic that many won't like:

Aggressively enforcing our border through any means possible, AND aggressively punishing then deporting illegals already here would SAVE lives in the long run.

Why - 240-500 people die each year trying to cross the border illegally.

If we removed the enticement for illegals to make that crossing, even if we had many fatalities in doing so, it wouldn't take long for them to stop trying in anywhere near the numbers they're coming across in now, which would virtually eliminate those deaths of those attempting illegal border entry.

[Serk]

I hear you Jess, just that I know how many are killed by mines after the supposed signs fall down are removed or what have you

How about if the mines had a timed self-destruct mechanism built in? I.E. if they weren't re-activated they'd deactivate themselves in, say, 10 years? Or something along those lines? Wouldn't be too hard to do from an engineering standpoint.

[DirtyDan]

It's use of force simple. Weapons was my favorite book in school. Fortifications another

Children can choose......I did

Dan

[The emperor has no clothes]

One thing is for sure,, what we have now is NOT working.
Almost all countries in the world do not treat illegal border crossings as we do.
It's a drain on society and an insult to those who did it legally.

What we have now does work to a certain extent. Just not well enough. It is an insult to those who immigrated legally .
 My take on fixing illegal immigration is multi fold .
1) We must crack down on employers and people who hire them. Many people enjoy having cheap maids, cheap landscapers, cheap construction workers. Make it hurt to the people who use them. Heavy fines and even jail time would deter much of it. Contrary to what some think, most of the illegal immigrants come here for the work. Not to suck up welfare.
2) Do away with sanctuary cities. If a city decides to go that route, then cut off ALL federal funding of any sort.
3) Track people more thoroughly here on visas. If they overstay, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them.
4) When an illegal immigrant is detained or found out, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them. If they come back and are caught again the punishment gets progressively more intense.
5) Punish coyotes who bring them across to the max.

[Serk]

One thing is for sure,, what we have now is NOT working.
Almost all countries in the world do not treat illegal border crossings as we do.
It's a drain on society and an insult to those who did it legally.

What we have now does work to a certain extent. Just not well enough. It is an insult to those who immigrated legally .
 My take on fixing illegal immigration is multi fold .
1) We must crack down on employers and people who hire them. Many people enjoy having cheap maids, cheap landscapers, cheap construction workers. Make it hurt to the people who use them. Heavy fines and even jail time would deter much of it. Contrary to what some think, most of the illegal immigrants come here for the work. Not to suck up welfare.
2) Do away with sanctuary cities. If a city decides to go that route, then cut off ALL federal funding of any sort.
3) Track people more thoroughly here on visas. If they overstay, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them.
4) When an illegal immigrant is detained or found out, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them. If they come back and are caught again the punishment gets progressively more intense.
5) Punish coyotes who bring them across to the max.

This doesn't happen often but.... I agree with all of your points.
I'd also add a 6) NO government benefits to illegal aliens. None. Nothing. Zip. Nada.

[The emperor has no clothes]

One thing is for sure,, what we have now is NOT working.
Almost all countries in the world do not treat illegal border crossings as we do.
It's a drain on society and an insult to those who did it legally.

What we have now does work to a certain extent. Just not well enough. It is an insult to those who immigrated legally .
 My take on fixing illegal immigration is multi fold .
1) We must crack down on employers and people who hire them. Many people enjoy having cheap maids, cheap landscapers, cheap construction workers. Make it hurt to the people who use them. Heavy fines and even jail time would deter much of it. Contrary to what some think, most of the illegal immigrants come here for the work. Not to suck up welfare.
2) Do away with sanctuary cities. If a city decides to go that route, then cut off ALL federal funding of any sort.
3) Track people more thoroughly here on visas. If they overstay, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them.
4) When an illegal immigrant is detained or found out, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them. If they come back and are caught again the punishment gets progressively more intense.
5) Punish coyotes who bring them across to the max.

This doesn't happen often but.... I agree with all of your points.
I'd also add a 6) NO government benefits to illegal aliens. None. Nothing. Zip. Nada.

Thanks for adding #6. I should have also. It's been a long hard week and I'm beat.

[Jess from VA]

And #7.

Build a real wall.... or lay a mine field.

[Willow]

I'll agree with the Serk and the meathead.  I would add one more point.  The current immigration system and laws make it very difficult for someone who wants to come here and become an American to do so.  We honestly may need as a culture a lot of those folks who are filling the spots those illegals from Mexico are filling.  We need to make the process much more reasonable.  In some cases that may mean simpler.  In some cases that may mean less preferential.  

We do need to distinguish between the criminals coming to prey and the workers coming to participate.

[The emperor has no clothes]

And #7.

Build a real wall.... or lay a mine field.

I am not down with the mine field.  Too much chance for innocent kids being hurt and killed for me.

[Gavin_Sons]

One thing is for sure,, what we have now is NOT working.
Almost all countries in the world do not treat illegal border crossings as we do.
It's a drain on society and an insult to those who did it legally.

What we have now does work to a certain extent. Just not well enough. It is an insult to those who immigrated legally .
 My take on fixing illegal immigration is multi fold .
1) We must crack down on employers and people who hire them. Many people enjoy having cheap maids, cheap landscapers, cheap construction workers. Make it hurt to the people who use them. Heavy fines and even jail time would deter much of it. Contrary to what some think, most of the illegal immigrants come here for the work. Not to suck up welfare.
2) Do away with sanctuary cities. If a city decides to go that route, then cut off ALL federal funding of any sort.
3) Track people more thoroughly here on visas. If they overstay, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them.
4) When an illegal immigrant is detained or found out, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them. If they come back and are caught again the punishment gets progressively more intense.
5) Punish coyotes who bring them across to the max.

  Meathead and I are also in agreement  Christmas time must be magical.

[The emperor has no clothes]

One thing is for sure,, what we have now is NOT working.
Almost all countries in the world do not treat illegal border crossings as we do.
It's a drain on society and an insult to those who did it legally.

What we have now does work to a certain extent. Just not well enough. It is an insult to those who immigrated legally .
 My take on fixing illegal immigration is multi fold .
1) We must crack down on employers and people who hire them. Many people enjoy having cheap maids, cheap landscapers, cheap construction workers. Make it hurt to the people who use them. Heavy fines and even jail time would deter much of it. Contrary to what some think, most of the illegal immigrants come here for the work. Not to suck up welfare.
2) Do away with sanctuary cities. If a city decides to go that route, then cut off ALL federal funding of any sort.
3) Track people more thoroughly here on visas. If they overstay, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them.
4) When an illegal immigrant is detained or found out, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them. If they come back and are caught again the punishment gets progressively more intense.
5) Punish coyotes who bring them across to the max.

  Meathead and I are also in agreement  Christmas time must be magical.

I might have to reevaluate my values now. 

[3fan4life]

Christmas must REALLY be magical.

I agree with Meathead too.       

[Serk]

Quick, Willow, lock the thread while we're still mostly in agreement! 

[Gavin_Sons]

Quick, Willow, lock the thread while we're still mostly in agreement! 

 

[DirtyDan]

Giggle. For what's it worth I enjoy the "sprited discussions"

Dan

[Moonshot_1]

One thing is for sure,, what we have now is NOT working.
Almost all countries in the world do not treat illegal border crossings as we do.
It's a drain on society and an insult to those who did it legally.

What we have now does work to a certain extent. Just not well enough. It is an insult to those who immigrated legally .
 My take on fixing illegal immigration is multi fold .
1) We must crack down on employers and people who hire them. Many people enjoy having cheap maids, cheap landscapers, cheap construction workers. Make it hurt to the people who use them. Heavy fines and even jail time would deter much of it. Contrary to what some think, most of the illegal immigrants come here for the work. Not to suck up welfare.
2) Do away with sanctuary cities. If a city decides to go that route, then cut off ALL federal funding of any sort.
3) Track people more thoroughly here on visas. If they overstay, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them.
4) When an illegal immigrant is detained or found out, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them. If they come back and are caught again the punishment gets progressively more intense.
5) Punish coyotes who bring them across to the max.

Well, don't lock it just yet.

Not on board with #1. It isn't quite that simple.

Employers shouldn't have to double as law enforcement.
If we want to "crack down" on employers then there must be a system that the government would have that determines the legality of everyone in country.
A national ID that can be verified with a separate national number (a Soc. Sec. # for example) by employers.

To expect employers to know who the government deems to be legally in country or illegally in country without such a system is asking more than a bit much if you intend to "crack down" on them.

If employers are intentionally hiring illegals AND not paying them lawful wages and work them in unsafe and illegal conditions, then, when discovered and caught, absolutely throw the book at them and then some.

But if we have employers hiring people who represent themselves as legal citizens or residents when they are not and the employer is paying them in accordance to the law (wages, taxes, working conditions) then after reasonable diligence, the employer should not be "cracked down" upon.

[Serk]

Employers shouldn't have to double as law enforcement.
If we want to "crack down" on employers then there must be a system that the government would have that determines the legality of everyone in country.

Such a system is already in place, it just requires employers to use it.

And yes, I'd say if an employer uses this, and the person comes up clean, the employer shouldn't be liable beyond that.

https://www.uscis.gov/e-verify

[Alpha Dog]

I must say I am impressed by so many logical ( at least to me ) points that  been expressed on this topic.  It seems the VRCC has its head together, now we just have to put the focus on the newly elected gov't to do the same and make sure they know their heads are held to the grindstone ( metaphor ) to do what needs to be done.  I am sure Mr. Trump will  be on board and only cards, and letters ( old way ) and continuous emails, twitter, and facebook messages  to your closet representative will show that the constituents are behind them to make the bold decisions to do the right thing for the American electorate.

[Wizzard]

One thing is for sure,, what we have now is NOT working.
Almost all countries in the world do not treat illegal border crossings as we do.
It's a drain on society and an insult to those who did it legally.

What we have now does work to a certain extent. Just not well enough. It is an insult to those who immigrated legally .
 My take on fixing illegal immigration is multi fold .
1) We must crack down on employers and people who hire them. Many people enjoy having cheap maids, cheap landscapers, cheap construction workers. Make it hurt to the people who use them. Heavy fines and even jail time would deter much of it. Contrary to what some think, most of the illegal immigrants come here for the work. Not to suck up welfare.
2) Do away with sanctuary cities. If a city decides to go that route, then cut off ALL federal funding of any sort.
3) Track people more thoroughly here on visas. If they overstay, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them.
4) When an illegal immigrant is detained or found out, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them. If they come back and are caught again the punishment gets progressively more intense.
5) Punish coyotes who bring them across to the max.

This doesn't happen often but.... I agree with all of your points.
I'd also add a 6) NO government benefits to illegal aliens. None. Nothing. Zip. Nada.

Thanks for adding #6. I should have also. It's been a long hard week and I'm beat.

I agree with it all, and Willow's post about making our system easier is welcome. I have a niece that did it right 6 years ago and it was incredibly hard. Like standing in line all day at the US embassy when an appointment was made for 10 AM. Driving 2 hours to get there,, stand in line for 7 hours, ,then 10 feet from the front door being told "sorry, we are done today, come back tomorrow"  The system sucks

[Jess from VA]

Similar story to my Turkish wife of a couple days, standing in line all day at our Ankara embassy, and being treated very poorly and disrespected because it so happened that she was standing in line with a lot of Iranian working girls that had fled the Ayatollah in fear of their lives and were seeking asylum with the US.  (she told me about it in tears)

My irate phone call to a consular officer at our embassy, got me into trouble with my Col; Are you out of your mind Capt?  You cannot threaten to kick the man's ass up and down the street.  It was no threat sir, I made him a promise.

Two years later, there we were standing in line with half of Latin America at the Federal Bldg in downtown LA.  My decision to wear my dress uniform was fortuitous, we got moved from the line in the street, to the line inside the building.

The Turks still consider her a dual citizen, but she doesn't (she's an American).

Back in Ankara two years earlier, our friend Ziggy, the German embassy visa officer (who made sure we were always invited to their Fall Octorberfest with free beer at their magnificent embassy) showed up to our O'club with a gorgeous girl, and we signed them in.  When Ziggy later quietly explained she was one of those Iranian working girls, we asked that he please tell no one as we were forbidden to sign any Iranians into the club (and were supposed to report any contact with them to our security officer, just like the Russians).  She was no threat to national security, but was a severe threat to anyone's celibacy.    

[G-Man]

One thing is for sure,, what we have now is NOT working.
Almost all countries in the world do not treat illegal border crossings as we do.
It's a drain on society and an insult to those who did it legally.

What we have now does work to a certain extent. Just not well enough. It is an insult to those who immigrated legally .
 My take on fixing illegal immigration is multi fold .
1) We must crack down on employers and people who hire them. Many people enjoy having cheap maids, cheap landscapers, cheap construction workers. Make it hurt to the people who use them. Heavy fines and even jail time would deter much of it. Contrary to what some think, most of the illegal immigrants come here for the work. Not to suck up welfare.
2) Do away with sanctuary cities. If a city decides to go that route, then cut off ALL federal funding of any sort.
3) Track people more thoroughly here on visas. If they overstay, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them.
4) When an illegal immigrant is detained or found out, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them. If they come back and are caught again the punishment gets progressively more intense.
5) Punish coyotes who bring them across to the max.

  Meathead and I are also in agreement  Christmas time must be magical.

Shocked as well.  An entirely conservative viewpoint.  Another Chanukah miracle???

[The emperor has no clothes]

One thing is for sure,, what we have now is NOT working.
Almost all countries in the world do not treat illegal border crossings as we do.
It's a drain on society and an insult to those who did it legally.

What we have now does work to a certain extent. Just not well enough. It is an insult to those who immigrated legally .
 My take on fixing illegal immigration is multi fold .
1) We must crack down on employers and people who hire them. Many people enjoy having cheap maids, cheap landscapers, cheap construction workers. Make it hurt to the people who use them. Heavy fines and even jail time would deter much of it. Contrary to what some think, most of the illegal immigrants come here for the work. Not to suck up welfare.
2) Do away with sanctuary cities. If a city decides to go that route, then cut off ALL federal funding of any sort.
3) Track people more thoroughly here on visas. If they overstay, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them.
4) When an illegal immigrant is detained or found out, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them. If they come back and are caught again the punishment gets progressively more intense.
5) Punish coyotes who bring them across to the max.

  Meathead and I are also in agreement  Christmas time must be magical.

Shocked as well.  An entirely conservative viewpoint.  Another Chanukah miracle???

Gary, there really is no need to be shocked. We tend to pigeon hole liberals and conservatives in certain political stances. The truth is most of us are a mix of many different ideas. I know very few liberals who believe the way most conservatives think they do. And vice versa for liberals thinking all conservatives have certain viewpoints. You and I probably agree on much more than we disagree on. 

[..]

i would suggest shooting illegals that cross the border illegally, that would stop them from doing it again. But i won't say anything because some of our liberal friends might get offended. 

You can't wait to shoot someone. Pretty sick.

D.  T.  V.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

One thing is for sure,, what we have now is NOT working.
Almost all countries in the world do not treat illegal border crossings as we do.
It's a drain on society and an insult to those who did it legally.

What we have now does work to a certain extent. Just not well enough. It is an insult to those who immigrated legally .
 My take on fixing illegal immigration is multi fold .
1) We must crack down on employers and people who hire them. Many people enjoy having cheap maids, cheap landscapers, cheap construction workers. Make it hurt to the people who use them. Heavy fines and even jail time would deter much of it. Contrary to what some think, most of the illegal immigrants come here for the work. Not to suck up welfare.
2) Do away with sanctuary cities. If a city decides to go that route, then cut off ALL federal funding of any sort.
3) Track people more thoroughly here on visas. If they overstay, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them.
4) When an illegal immigrant is detained or found out, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them. If they come back and are caught again the punishment gets progressively more intense.
5) Punish coyotes who bring them across to the max.

I agree almost 100% with Meathead. I can't support kids who have known no other country than the US being deported, they would just have no chance in Mexico. Unless they are criminals, if they are send them South. Nor can I support illegals who have served honorably in our military being deported. Serving honorably in our military should be a path to citizenship. Illegals who voted "illegally" in our election should be deported and given a lifetime ban on re-entry.

Once the wall is built and our borders are secure I think we should base the number of immigrants allowed on our population. As in, if our population drops we allow enough immigrants in to bring us back to our present population. If our population is above that number, then we allow no new immigrants.

We have no new frontiers to settle and we have enough people here already. Time to say "we're full".

[Bighead]

One thing is for sure,, what we have now is NOT working.
Almost all countries in the world do not treat illegal border crossings as we do.
It's a drain on society and an insult to those who did it legally.

What we have now does work to a certain extent. Just not well enough. It is an insult to those who immigrated legally .
 My take on fixing illegal immigration is multi fold .
1) We must crack down on employers and people who hire them. Many people enjoy having cheap maids, cheap landscapers, cheap construction workers. Make it hurt to the people who use them. Heavy fines and even jail time would deter much of it. Contrary to what some think, most of the illegal immigrants come here for the work. Not to suck up welfare.
2) Do away with sanctuary cities. If a city decides to go that route, then cut off ALL federal funding of any sort.
3) Track people more thoroughly here on visas. If they overstay, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them.
4) When an illegal immigrant is detained or found out, lock them up for a determined amount of time and deport them. If they come back and are caught again the punishment gets progressively more intense.
5) Punish coyotes who bring them across to the max.

I agree almost 100% with Meathead. I can't support kids who have known no other country than the US being deported, they would just have no chance in Mexico. Unless they are criminals, if they are send them South. Nor can I support illegals who have served honorably in our military being deported. Serving honorably in our military should be a path to citizenship.

Once the wall is built and our borders are secure I think we should base the number of immigrants allowed on our population. As in, if our population drops we allow enough immigrants in to bring us back to our present population. If our population is above that number, then we allow no new immigrants.

We have inew frontiers to settle and we have enough people here already. Time to say "we're full".

Kinda like the old motel signs Vacancy or No!