Water to carbs

[Hook#3287]

Looking at the parts web site Leathel posted, I found the "Winkers" and the "Handle Pipe"    but can not find the page "Tubing"

Does that mean the UK models did not have any "Tubing"?

Hey Leathel, does your bike have any of this?

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/1999/GL1500CT+A/TUBING/parts.html

I used to up until a couple of weeks ago

Desmog done, Pringel and fuel shutoff should go in this weekend all going to plan after doing the carbs

Ok, so it was there.  Wonder why it's not listed in the UK parts web site?

[Savago]

@Lethel: thanks for sharing the photos, it is quite interesting! (specially because American bikes don't have all this builtin in the carbs).

[Leathel]

Looking at the parts web site Leathel posted, I found the "Winkers" and the "Handle Pipe"    but can not find the page "Tubing"

Does that mean the UK models did not have any "Tubing"?

Hey Leathel, does your bike have any of this?

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/1999/GL1500CT+A/TUBING/parts.html

I used to up until a couple of weeks ago

Desmog done, Pringel and fuel shutoff should go in this weekend all going to plan after doing the carbs

Ok, so it was there.  Wonder why it's not listed in the UK parts web site?

I did see in the other link about the differences between some countries on this thread that some euro models don't have it.... so that link I put up might be for that model?

[Hook#3287]

Ok, so I'm confused, which doesn't take much.  ???

Leathel, you state your bike comes from the UK, but you also stated you had the US emission pipes.

According to Dag's site, your UK bike should not have the US emission pipes.

What is the combo of the three digits in your V.I.N after  S C?

Also, what is the highest number in your speedo?

Also, checking his site, I don't see that he mentions the carb heating system as a difference between the models.

[Leathel]

Ok, so I'm confused, which doesn't take much.  ???

Leathel, you state your bike comes from the UK, but you also stated you had the US emission pipes.

According to Dag's site, your UK bike should not have the US emission pipes.

What is the combo of the three digits in your V.I.N after  S C?

Also, what is the highest number in your speedo?

Also, checking his site, I don't see that he mentions the carb heating system as a difference between the models.

It appears there are multiple Euro models and UK models and not everything is on that site, they are similar but not the same... My Speedo is 150Mph

34A Vin after SC

[Hook#3287]

My Speedo is 150Mph

34A Vin after SC

With that info, according to Dags site,  SC34A=Valkyrie Standard -UK, Austrian, Belgian, French, Spanish and Swedish models

Don't know why you have/had the emission piping   ???

Anyways, those bags you threw some paint on still look good in your avitar.

[Leathel]

mmm the US models have a 100 main....UK 78





Making good progress with the strip and clean..... then I found this



I hope my brothers work has one in stock as I want to get this together in daylight (works at a bike shop so can go in to work and grab one even when close)..... and if he doesn't it will have to be ordered in and time will be real short the track day and assembly at night after work under lights (Dark after work being its winter here now)

[Skinhead]

I hope my brothers work has one in stock as I want to get this together in daylight (works at a bike shop so can go in to work and grab one even when close)..... and if he doesn't it will have to be ordered in and time will be real short the track day and assembly at night after work under lights (Dark after work being its winter here now)

I could be wrong, But I think that jet will work fine since the orifice that meters fuel is above the broken off section.  The fact that the bike ran ok prior to you removing the carbs, supports this.  I have seen this several times were the jets were seized and a heavy handed mechanic broke a piece off trying to remove it.  But your bike, if you feel better replacing it do so by all means.

[Leathel]

I hope my brothers work has one in stock as I want to get this together in daylight (works at a bike shop so can go in to work and grab one even when close)..... and if he doesn't it will have to be ordered in and time will be real short the track day and assembly at night after work under lights (Dark after work being its winter here now)

I could be wrong, But I think that jet will work fine since the orifice that meters fuel is above the broken off section.  The fact that the bike ran ok prior to you removing the carbs, supports this.  I have seen this several times were the jets were seized and a heavy handed mechanic broke a piece off trying to remove it.  But your bike, if you feel better replacing it do so by all means.

It will affect the flow a little but not much at all.... I would have left it but I have had word my Brothers work has one in stock and he is going to drop it in soon.... Wish he had enough bigger mains in stock... I will have to leave it as was for now...next time I may play with those

[Harryc]

I have some spares here. Let me know if you get stuck and I'll drop a couple in the post. Now that I think about it, what size are your low speed jets on that bike? They are 35's on these in the US.

[98valk]

where do the water hoses connect to the main system?

[Leathel]

I have some spares here. Let me know if you get stuck and I'll drop a couple in the post. Now that I think about it, what size are your low speed jets on that bike? They are 35's on these in the US.

35's and I got that sorted but thanks for the offer

[Leathel]

where do the water hoses connect to the main system?

They started at the thermostat housing and returned to the LH Rad tank, No shutoff in the system at all so on hot days they are still heating the carbs.... 

Being there is no need for the flow between the two it has now been blocked off (US models are without it and have no place to fit it)

[Leathel]

second side all cleaned and ready to assemble



Fuel shut off vavle now fitted and secured in place so there is no movement putting load on the fuel rails and O-ring seals



New Pingel fuel tap fitted



Yes I have put a filter in.....but the largest filter I could find to fit with a true 10mm ID as to not restrict the flow (Has larger openings than the Pingel tap and the fuel shut off valve)



It turned out when stripped my bike had a filter but the ID was smaller so I went bigger.... and it was full of crap that got passed the factory screen that would have otherwise have been in the carbs!



Shut off with plenty of room for the air cleaner above it



Damn it has some space under the carbs now.... I should have fitted the air compressors under there for the air horns while the carbs were out

[98valk]

with two fuel filters and cutout valve u might starve it for fuel.

[Leathel]

with two fuel filters and cutout valve u might starve it for fuel.

Just the tap filter and the big filter, threw the little filter out

 being the size of the filter ID is the full 10mm & being larger than the factory fuel pipe which was replaced buy larger line (factory tank pipe measured ID 7.4mm) and the filter screen area being larger so less restriction it should be OK, the shutoff is the most restricting thing in the line with its valve area being around a 6mm opening (.250")....I looked at bigger but they were much larger and everyone seams to do OK with that model shutoff.

But time will tell as if the weather plays its part I will be doing an advanced training coarse on the local race track so will get a chance to do sustained high rpm


I have kept the fuel line as short and down hill as it can be

[Leathel]

This is a picture of the factory fuel line Vs what I replaced it with (tank to tee, at the Tee it went 10mm) although the factory line did flare out both ends, I thought it might have shrunk but after the tee it stayed 10mm letting me believe it might have been stepped down from factory?

 The factory line size (7.4mm id) on the gravity flow rate chart has 35% less flow that what I replaced it with so that should counter any filter issue if there is one



My box of bits removed is now full to overflowing now too

3KG worth.... but of coarse I have added a lot more weight with bags etc so a net gain big time  

 

[Harryc]

Good job Leathel. Let us know how it runs.

[Blackduck]

Leathel,
the US bikes have bigger mains as their airbox is less restrictive and the piggies are larger than export bikes.
Just changing mains on ours will make it very rich. Had a 98 and it loved fuel particularly when above 3000 Rpm.
Cheers Steve

[Savago]

Nice photos!

[Leathel]

Leathel,
the US bikes have bigger mains as their airbox is less restrictive and the piggies are larger than export bikes.
Just changing mains on ours will make it very rich. Had a 98 and it loved fuel particularly when above 3000 Rpm.
Cheers Steve

Yeah I will look to see if I can lift the needle a touch before looking at jets, its not bad as it is and I don't want to get to much less from a tank of gas, Last bike I ended up just above factory jets and a slightly lifted needle to get my balance of power to economy.... and its not often I am looking for more power.

The foam that was on top of the filter is gone (was breaking down) and the piggies are also gone... time will tell.

[Blackduck]

With the foam missing you could do with 100 mains, creates a nice flat spot on acceleration.
Found that out the hard way.
You will only manage a single washer under the needle then the needle does not centre properly
Cheers Steve

[Leathel]

With the foam missing you could do with 100 mains, creates a nice flat spot on acceleration.
Found that out the hard way.
You will only manage a single washer under the needle then the needle does not centre properly
Cheers Steve

Yes it had a noticeable flat spot, really stands out more on the track but it reaches top revs with ease, flat spot goes at 3800 and it gets up and goes, so I will try lifting the needle first and see how that goes with filling in the mid range...... it was fun passing sport bikes..... but that didn't happen that often..... was great fun on the corners but need a screen, not a huge one just enough to take pressure of to make it easier to hold on at higher speeds and backrest, mostly I cruised the fast sections and let those that wanted to go
 

[Leathel]

Well no issue with fuel starvation with sustained high rpm, apart from a flat spot being it has smaller UK jets and the exhaust/intake is now opened up (UK models have smaller pig tails and extra foam in the air cleaner and 78jets instead of the US 100'S)
  I did some time in lower gears to retain near red line revs still at 90mph (4th I think) for the straits and gears down in the corners.... I look forward to when I can get out again with the small jets issue sorted and a screen and back rest on.... oh and new boards made to give more clearance....a fair amount of scraping on the corners dictated corner speeds a little

Someone else's video from the day to give an indication of the  track

https://youtu.be/X2Y_nFR1WuE

[98valk]

With the foam missing you could do with 100 mains, creates a nice flat spot on acceleration.
Found that out the hard way.
You will only manage a single washer under the needle then the needle does not centre properly
Cheers Steve

Yes it had a noticeable flat spot, really stands out more on the track but it reaches top revs with ease, flat spot goes at 3800 and it gets up and goes, so I will try lifting the needle first and see how that goes with filling in the mid range...... it was fun passing sport bikes..... but that didn't happen that often..... was great fun on the corners but need a screen, not a huge one just enough to take pressure of to make it easier to hold on at higher speeds and backrest, mostly I cruised the fast sections and let those that wanted to go
 

the flat spot is due to the curved air intake tubes in the air box. I made mine straight. see pics http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,8248.0.html
they are curved for two reasons, EPA noise reduction and it gives a slight low rpm torque boost.
when shimming needles always have the front two carbs one shim richer than the rest. Marc from Factorypro jet kit states to do this. It works.

[Leathel]

With the foam missing you could do with 100 mains, creates a nice flat spot on acceleration.
Found that out the hard way.
You will only manage a single washer under the needle then the needle does not centre properly
Cheers Steve

Yes it had a noticeable flat spot, really stands out more on the track but it reaches top revs with ease, flat spot goes at 3800 and it gets up and goes, so I will try lifting the needle first and see how that goes with filling in the mid range...... it was fun passing sport bikes..... but that didn't happen that often..... was great fun on the corners but need a screen, not a huge one just enough to take pressure of to make it easier to hold on at higher speeds and backrest, mostly I cruised the fast sections and let those that wanted to go
 

the flat spot is due to the curved air intake tubes in the air box. I made mine straight. see pics http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,8248.0.html
they are curved for two reasons, EPA noise reduction and it gives a slight low rpm torque boost.
when shimming needles always have the front two carbs one shim richer than the rest. Marc from Factorypro jet kit states to do this. It works.

I wont be able to shim extra on the front as there wont be room for the extra 2 washers... I might have to look at adjustable needles for that... depends on the cost of those plus jets, will look into modding the intakes too

Cheers for the links

[Gabriel]

BTW: Water on earlier carburetors was to prevent icing.
====================================================

I would like to know what this is?

[98valk]

TPS.  was talked about on pg 1 of this post.   US and Canadian bikes do not have it.

[Gabriel]

TPS.  was talked about on pg 1 of this post.   US and Canadian bikes do not have it.

I read that on page one, plus that much is fairly clear. What is it for, why does the control unit want to know the throttle position? Why is it there?
It's as strange as the water piping.

[98valk]

TPS.  was talked about on pg 1 of this post.   US and Canadian bikes do not have it.

I read that on page one, plus that much is fairly clear. What is it for, why does the control unit want to know the throttle position? Why is it there?
It's as strange as the water piping.

it means the ICM has multiple ignition maps. Could be for max power or max lower emissions etc.  whereas U.S. bikes have a cheap one map ICM which is terrible for MPG and actually less max HP per some dyno tests done by HondaTek back when these bikes first came out and using the Dyna ICM. Anything over 25 advance under WOT to redline loses HP.  The Dyna website last I checked still has the install instructions which shows their curves and also the OEM curves. I have copies of all the posts from the '90s. good thing since the archives went away yrs ago.

[Gabriel]

I had read about those  some time back.
Your bike must have the additional foam filter in the air box?

[Leathel]

I had read about those  some time back.
Your bike must have the additional foam filter in the air box?

My bike had a foam pad but it has been removed as it was breaking down, it also came with smaller exhaust piglets that have been removed..... and smaller main jets

 I cant get over how well this bike pulls above 3.5-4K revs with the 78 UK jets...that is so much smaller than the 100's, its pulls well to rev limit in third without hesitation...not tried in 4th. 

I wish there was a local dyno to get facts on the power curve etc when I start playing with the intake and fuel mix 

 

[Gabriel]

I wonder if the carbs are the same size? My bike won't even run with those main jets.
I'm using 105's, it surged with 100's at full throttle.

[Leathel]

I wonder if the carbs are the same size? My bike won't even run with those main jets.
I'm using 105's, it surged with 100's at full throttle.

Appear to be the same

UK carbs
https://www.bike-parts-honda.com/pieces-honda-detail-2269-13MZ0V41-GL1500CW-1998-E__2000-F6C+1500.html

US
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/1998/GL1500C+A/CARBURETOR+ASSY./parts.html

Showing smaller jets in the UK
https://www.bike-parts-honda.com/pieces-honda-detail-2269-13MZ0V41-GL1500CW-1998-E__2002-F6C+1500.html

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/1998/GL1500C+A/CARBURETOR+COMPONENTS/parts.html


I have lifted the needles and will run it tomorrow ...managed to get 2 extra washers in the front two as be mentioned above so time will tell

will do the air box next then test again, the start looking at jets, One thing at a time is how I always do it so you have a better idea on just what changed the results...