Changing to synthetic oil

[W4360]

I'm currently running Dino oil in my 2000 Valk Tourer. 23k miles. Switching to synthetic. Should I go straight to the synthetic or should I move to a part synthetic oil first? TY Bob

[Hook#3287]

Go straight to it, don't use any that says "Energy Conserving"

[W4360]

Thanks for the tip!!

[Savago]

All my bikes got better/smoother shifting when I went to full synthetic oil.

[Harryc]

Dare I ask this question? What synthetic oil is best for a Valkyrie?

[Hook#3287]

Dare I ask this question? What synthetic oil is best for a Valkyrie?

The answer, of course, is ___________________

(fill the blank with the oil you like)

Pot stirrer

[Ramie]

Dare I ask this question? What synthetic oil is best for a Valkyrie?

Just go with the Dino synthetic.

[..]

Fer f's sake just use some oil and change it with the filter.

Who cares what it is.

Just f'in change it with the filter at the appropriate mileage.

Now go worry about something else that really matters.

[cookiedough]

amsoil or mobil cycle oil seem to be the best 2 IMO 10w-40

oh jeepers, opened up a can of worms....

[Harryc]

Fer f's sake just use some oil and change it with the filter.

That's what I'm talk'in about. Say it brother. 

[bzane]

Been very happy with rotella t6. Only $22/gal.

Diesel or MC synthetic is good. The latter if you pee champagne.

Modern car oils no good - energy conserving means clutch loss. Too slippery.

[Hooter]

Yippee an oil thread.... use what you want. Just make sure it is wet clutch compatable.  It should carry the JASO-MA rating, so check whatever you buy. The MA being the important part.

[DarkSideR]

Let's put the whole "whats the best oil to use" debate to rest just by asking DDT what he has used for the last 550,000 miles in Ali. Bruce...

[98valk]

Yippee an oil thread.... use what you want. Just make sure it is wet clutch compatable.  It should carry the JASO-MA rating, so check whatever you buy. The MA being the important part.

Jaso really doesn't mean much when they pay to have the JASO name.

JASO spec'd motorcycle oil are basically the same specs as heavy-duty diesel oil standards.
JASO does not test oils, manufactures pay a fee to JASO and state their oil meets the specs.

http://www.lngpublishing.com/LNGmagazine/index.cfm
this months issue
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/e9f4b3fd#/e9f4b3fd/1

see article  Two-wheelers love oil too!

[..]

Let's put the whole "whats the best oil to use" debate to rest just by asking DDT what he has used for the last 550,000 miles in Ali. Bruce...

And at what frequency.

[Hooter]

I understand about JASO...it's the MA that matters.

[98valk]

I understand about JASO...it's the MA that matters.

the MA is a JASO std, same thing oil companies pay to use it.   Amsoil only recently paid to have certain symbols put on their bottles.  http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline/premium-protection-10w-40-synthetic-motor-oil/?code=AMOQT-EA
rated for Motorcycles and cheaper than the bottle which states for m/c and for decades was basically the same oil and still is except the m/c bottled stuff has extra anti rust additives.  Their sales jumped with the internet, putting the oil in a motorcycle labeled bottle because people would not read the back of the bottle stating it was good for m/c and their prices also after paying for the jaso.  I was a dealer in the '80s-'90s. I know the history and marketing they did to increase the company.
as usual anybody can use any oil they want. just providing info and to help people save money for gas and chrome.

[DDT (12)]

Let's put the whole "whats the best oil to use" debate to rest just by asking DDT what he has used for the last 550,000 miles in Ali. Bruce...

I agree with Britman... it really doesn't matter that much. I've used several brands over the years, but I do much prefer synthetic. I've used Rotella T-6 virtually all of the time, buying Mobile 1 or similar if T-6 wasn't available at the moment. I don't fret about any of that, however. I also religiously change the filter with each oil change... usually OEM, but I have experimented with several others.

What matters more than anything, perhaps it is the only thing that really does matter, is that it be changed! Among the reasons I've settled upon a synthetic oil is that the intervals between changes can be longer than with Dino oil. Rotella is my choice simply because it is usually universally available, and because it was suggested to me by a rider I know well and trust completely.

I'm no techy, and I haven't researched any of this. I've relied upon the information shared with me by friends, and so far my choices have worked out  (550,000 miles and still counting).

My experience is that many folks easily get off on tangents and tears, form opinions about stuff that evolve into some form of dogma for them, then they become evangelists spreading the word. My thinking on this is that we shouldn't be so absorbed with minutia and detail, that we loose sight of what really matters... Just change the oil and filter and enjoy the ride! I recommend what is pretty much standard recommendations from many folks I know: Dino oil - change every 2-3K (I usually go closer to 3K on this) miles. Synthetic oil change every 5-7K.

I used to change Rotella faithfully every 5K miles or so so, but I've been hearing that up to 7K is OK now... Accordingly, I've relaxed that 5K threshold a bit, running until it is more convenient to change it without worrying... up to 7K, that is... About 6k is the most I've actually done so far, but I haven't noticed any problems related to oil choices. I'll run beyond 6K if a need arises without any reservations...

Like religion, politics, shirt styles, model of car, anything actually... this is a matter of personal choice, and what you choose isn't the issue... Just don't neglect to do the changes, and everything will work out...

DDT

[The emperor has no clothes]

Let's put the whole "whats the best oil to use" debate to rest just by asking DDT what he has used for the last 550,000 miles in Ali. Bruce...

I agree with Britman... it really doesn't matter that much. I've used several brands over the years, but I do much prefer synthetic. I've used Rotella T-6 virtually all of the time, buying Mobile 1 or similar if T-6 wasn't available at the moment. I don't fret about any of that, however. I also religiously change the filter with each oil change... usually OEM, but I have experimented with several others.

What matters more than anything, perhaps it is the only thing that really does matter, is that it be changed! Among the reasons I've settled upon a synthetic oil is that the frequency between changes can be longer than with Dino oil. Rotella is my choice simply because it is usually universally available, and because it was suggested to me by a rider I know well and trust completely.

I'm no techy, and I haven't researched any of this. I've relied upon the information shared with me by friends, and so far my choices have worked out  (550,000 miles and still counting).

My experience is that many folks easily get off on tangents and tears, form opinions about stuff that evolve into some form of dogma for them, then they become evangelists spreading the word. My thinking on this is that we shouldn't be so absorbed with minutia and detail, that we loose sight of what really matters... Just change the oil and filter and enjoy the ride! I recommend what is pretty much standard recommendations from many folks I know: Dino oil - change every 2-3K (I usually go closer to 3K on this) miles. Synthetic oil change every 5-7K.

I used to change Rotella faithfully every 5K miles or so so, but I've been hearing that up to 7K is OK now... Accordingly, I've relaxed that 5K threshold a bit, running until it is more convenient to change it without worrying... up to 7K, that is... About 6k is the most I've actually done so far, but I haven't noticed any problems related to oil choices. I'll run beyond 6K if a need arises without any reservations...

Like religion, politics, shirt styles, model of car, anything actually... this is a matter of personal choice, and what you choose isn't the issue... Just don't neglect to do the changes, and everything will work out...

DDT

Life is too short to sweat over the small stuff. I'm with you on the synthetic. It's a lot more convenient not doing it every 3k. I'm also not sure why anybody goes thru the trouble of changing oil and not the filter at the same time. Safe travels my friend. 

[DarkSideR]

Let's put the whole "whats the best oil to use" debate to rest just by asking DDT what he has used for the last 550,000 miles in Ali. Bruce...

I agree with Britman... it really doesn't matter that much. I've used several brands over the years, but I do much prefer synthetic. I've used Rotella T-6 virtually all of the time, buying Mobile 1 or similar if T-6 wasn't available at the moment. I don't fret about any of that, however. I also religiously change the filter with each oil change... usually OEM, but I have experimented with several others.

What matters more than anything, perhaps it is the only thing that really does matter, is that it be changed! Among the reasons I've settled upon a synthetic oil is that the intervals between changes can be longer than with Dino oil. Rotella is my choice simply because it is usually universally available, and because it was suggested to me by a rider I know well and trust completely.

I'm no techy, and I haven't researched any of this. I've relied upon the information shared with me by friends, and so far my choices have worked out  (550,000 miles and still counting).

My experience is that many folks easily get off on tangents and tears, form opinions about stuff that evolve into some form of dogma for them, then they become evangelists spreading the word. My thinking on this is that we shouldn't be so absorbed with minutia and detail, that we loose sight of what really matters... Just change the oil and filter and enjoy the ride! I recommend what is pretty much standard recommendations from many folks I know: Dino oil - change every 2-3K (I usually go closer to 3K on this) miles. Synthetic oil change every 5-7K.

I used to change Rotella faithfully every 5K miles or so so, but I've been hearing that up to 7K is OK now... Accordingly, I've relaxed that 5K threshold a bit, running until it is more convenient to change it without worrying... up to 7K, that is... About 6k is the most I've actually done so far, but I haven't noticed any problems related to oil choices. I'll run beyond 6K if a need arises without any reservations...

Like religion, politics, shirt styles, model of car, anything actually... this is a matter of personal choice, and what you choose isn't the issue... Just don't neglect to do the changes, and everything will work out...

DDT

And there you have it folks. I wish I could say this would be the end all of the infamous oil thread debates, but sadly that would be hoping for too much. I do think though that this thread can be referenced in the future when the inevitable question is asked.

[Gideon]

 And there you have it folks. I wish I could say this would be the end all of the infamous oil thread debates, but sadly that would be hoping for too much. I do think though that this thread can be referenced in the future when the inevitable question is asked.
[/quote]


Where is the fun in that? 

[mello dude]

The old curmudgeon mechanix joke about what's the best oil? His answer?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..

.
.
.
CLEAN! 

[Gabriel]

After spending my life as an transportation technician one thing seems to hold true;
Oil never stops lubricating but it does stop cleaning and removing/suspending contaminates.
I've seen cars with 60K on the original oil and they seemed to run well but some of the valve train components are no longer visible due to sludge.
Keep in mind who it was that came up with the 7500 mile service interval, it was the federal Government who wanted to make sure your smog equipment was functioning properly and that was the the mileage sequence chosen to align with some component replacements.
They only way you will know what the proper time change interval is for your application is to have the oil analyzed, otherwise your just guessing.

What makes for an interesting discussion is your oil filter, here are just two considerations;
Most filters only filter about half the oil. Many engines have about 30/60 Lbs of oil pressure, most filters have a 15/30 lb. bypass valve.
How do many small engines last so long without an oil filter, many seldom even get an oil change.

[..]

After spending my life as an transportation technician one thing seems to hold true;
Oil never stops lubricating but it does stop cleaning and removing/suspending contaminates.
I've seen cars with 60K on the original oil and they seemed to run well but some of the valve train components are no longer visible due to sludge.
Keep in mind who it was that came up with the 7500 mile service interval, it was the federal Government who wanted to make sure your smog equipment was functioning properly and that was the the mileage sequence chosen to align with some component replacements.
They only way you will know what the proper time change interval is for your application is to have the oil analyzed, otherwise your just guessing.

What makes for an interesting discussion is your oil filter, here are just two considerations;
Most filters only filter about half the oil. Many engines have about 30/60 Lbs of oil pressure, most filters have a 15/30 lb. bypass valve.
How do many small engines last so long without an oil filter, many seldom even get an oil change.

Yep I add oil to lawn mower as it needs it. Never changed it.

[Cracker Jack]

After spending my life as an transportation technician one thing seems to hold true;
Oil never stops lubricating but it does stop cleaning and removing/suspending contaminates.
I've seen cars with 60K on the original oil and they seemed to run well but some of the valve train components are no longer visible due to sludge.
Keep in mind who it was that came up with the 7500 mile service interval, it was the federal Government who wanted to make sure your smog equipment was functioning properly and that was the the mileage sequence chosen to align with some component replacements.
They only way you will know what the proper time change interval is for your application is to have the oil analyzed, otherwise your just guessing.

What makes for an interesting discussion is your oil filter, here are just two considerations;
Most filters only filter about half the oil. Many engines have about 30/60 Lbs of oil pressure, most filters have a 15/30 lb. bypass valve.
How do many small engines last so long without an oil filter, many seldom even get an oil change.

Gabriel, Gabriel, you were almost believable until you got to the "interesting discussion" part and said "Most filters only filter about half the oil" implying that filters normally bypass about half the oil.


The oil pressure occurs because of a restriction of the oil flow by the bearings and other parts of the engine needing lubrication. A pressure relief valve may be provided to limit the max pressure to engine components.

The filter bypass is for pressure drop across the filter and only comes into play when the filter is clogged to the point of creating enough back pressure at the filter to cause the filter to bypass. This occurs to keep the filter from starving engine lubrication. A clean filter creates very little back pressure and all the oil flows through it. 

[Gabriel]

Gabriel, Gabriel, you were almost believable until you got to the "interesting discussion" part and said "Most filters only filter about half the oil" implying that filters normally bypass about half the oil.


The oil pressure occurs because of a restriction of the oil flow by the bearings and other parts of the engine needing lubrication. A pressure relief valve may be provided to limit the max pressure to engine components.

The filter bypass is for pressure drop across the filter and only comes into play when the filter is clogged to the point of creating enough back pressure at the filter to cause the filter to bypass. This occurs to keep the filter from starving engine lubrication. A clean filter creates very little back pressure and all the oil flows through it. 

OK, Lets go a little further;
There are three actions that effect the flow of oil.  the first being the oil pressure by-pass valve located in the oil pump itself that bleeds off excessive pressure presented by the entire lubrication system.

The second is the by-pass valve located in the filter itself.
This valve activates anytime the pressure exceeds the filters media flow capacity which is almost constantly and increases as the filter becomes restricted. It does not by-pass all the oil, only the oil the filter can not handle at it's design pressure.
Let me give you and example that you have probably seen at least once if you have lived long enough.
This would be the swelling and/or splitting of the filter case, or the filter o-ring being blown out on a properly installed filter.
When this happens the capacity and the ability of the by-pass valve has been exceeded.
Two actions can cause this, the first is the oil pump by-pass valve is not functioning and/or the housing/o-ring is overwhelmed by the filters inability to by-pass volume due to excessive restriction.

The third is the oil bleed back valve, I think everyone understands this. 

You now also know why why the oil pressure tap for the gauge/light is down stream from the filter. When you see pressures exceeding the rating of the filter by-pass valve oil is being sent around the filter.

There are design exceptions to everything, however 90+ % conform to the above design and obviously viscosity effects the perimeters of all these functions.

[Alberta Patriot]

20W50 for anyone riding the southwest type climate from hell...10W40(or 5W40 Synthetic) anywhere else...synthetic just lets you significantly extend your riding miles before an oil change...Its the tranny gears that does most of the viscosity breakdown...synthetic just does a better job of resisting shear than dino.
Rotella T6 is as good as any high quality M/C oil you will find...including a "JASO MA" rating approved for transmission and wet clutch applications.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Shell-Rotella-Synthetic-5W-40-Motor-Oil-1-Gal/14958681
Buy two and get free shipping.

[Cracker Jack]

Gabriel, Gabriel, you were almost believable until you got to the "interesting discussion" part and said "Most filters only filter about half the oil" implying that filters normally bypass about half the oil.


The oil pressure occurs because of a restriction of the oil flow by the bearings and other parts of the engine needing lubrication. A pressure relief valve may be provided to limit the max pressure to engine components.

The filter bypass is for pressure drop across the filter and only comes into play when the filter is clogged to the point of creating enough back pressure at the filter to cause the filter to bypass. This occurs to keep the filter from starving engine lubrication. A clean filter creates very little back pressure and all the oil flows through it. 

OK, Lets go a little further;
There are three actions that effect the flow of oil.  the first being the oil pressure by-pass valve located in the oil pump itself that bleeds off excessive pressure presented by the entire lubrication system.

The second is the by-pass valve located in the filter itself.
This valve activates anytime the pressure exceeds the filters media flow capacity which is almost constantly and increases as the filter becomes restricted. It does not by-pass all the oil, only the oil the filter can not handle at it's design pressure.
Let me give you and example that you have probably seen at least once if you have lived long enough.
This would be the swelling and/or splitting of the filter case, or the filter o-ring being blown out on a properly installed filter.
When this happens the capacity and the ability of the by-pass valve has been exceeded.
Two actions can cause this, the first is the oil pump by-pass valve is not functioning and/or the housing/o-ring is overwhelmed by the filters inability to by-pass volume due to excessive restriction.

The third is the oil bleed back valve, I think everyone understands this. 

You now also know why why the oil pressure tap for the gauge/light is down stream from the filter. When you see pressures exceeding the rating of the filter by-pass valve oil is being sent around the filter.

There are design exceptions to everything, however 90+ % conform to the above design and obviously viscosity effects the perimeters of all these functions.

My final comments:
All oil pumped into the filter finally goes to the engine for lubrication. It either passes thru the filter media if the filter is not clogged or thru the bypass valve to the engine unfiltered if it becomes clogged (dirty enough) to the point of creating enough back pressure to bypass.

I'm probably the only one who doesn't understand this "oil bleed back valve" you speak of, is this something other than the pump bypass valve? I need a little help here.

[Gabriel]

20W50 for anyone riding the southwest type climate from hell...10W40(or 5W40 Synthetic) anywhere else...synthetic just lets you significantly extend your riding miles before an oil change...Its the tranny gears that does most of the viscosity breakdown...synthetic just does a better job of resisting shear than dino.
Rotella T6 is as good as any high quality M/C oil you will find...including a "JASO MA" rating approved for transmission and wet clutch applications.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Shell-Rotella-Synthetic-5W-40-Motor-Oil-1-Gal/14958681
Buy two and get free shipping.

That's what I run (5W40) T6, I also use and additive; 75ml of Liqui Moly MOS2. Now this stuff makes a noticeable difference in shifts, particularity in down shifts. (at least that was my observation)

[Alberta Patriot]

Gabriel, Gabriel, you were almost believable until you got to the "interesting discussion" part and said "Most filters only filter about half the oil" implying that filters normally bypass about half the oil.


The oil pressure occurs because of a restriction of the oil flow by the bearings and other parts of the engine needing lubrication. A pressure relief valve may be provided to limit the max pressure to engine components.

The filter bypass is for pressure drop across the filter and only comes into play when the filter is clogged to the point of creating enough back pressure at the filter to cause the filter to bypass. This occurs to keep the filter from starving engine lubrication. A clean filter creates very little back pressure and all the oil flows through it. 

OK, Lets go a little further;
There are three actions that effect the flow of oil.  the first being the oil pressure by-pass valve located in the oil pump itself that bleeds off excessive pressure presented by the entire lubrication system.

The second is the by-pass valve located in the filter itself.
This valve activates anytime the pressure exceeds the filters media flow capacity which is almost constantly and increases as the filter becomes restricted. It does not by-pass all the oil, only the oil the filter can not handle at it's design pressure.
Let me give you and example that you have probably seen at least once if you have lived long enough.
This would be the swelling and/or splitting of the filter case, or the filter o-ring being blown out on a properly installed filter.
When this happens the capacity and the ability of the by-pass valve has been exceeded.
Two actions can cause this, the first is the oil pump by-pass valve is not functioning and/or the housing/o-ring is overwhelmed by the filters inability to by-pass volume due to excessive restriction.

The third is the oil bleed back valve, I think everyone understands this. 

You now also know why why the oil pressure tap for the gauge/light is down stream from the filter. When you see pressures exceeding the rating of the filter by-pass valve oil is being sent around the filter.

There are design exceptions to everything, however 90+ % conform to the above design and obviously viscosity effects the perimeters of all these functions.

My final comments:
All oil pumped into the filter finally goes to the engine for lubrication. It either passes thru the filter media if the filter is not clogged or thru the bypass valve to the engine unfiltered if it becomes clogged (dirty enough) to the point of creating enough back pressure to bypass.

I'm probably the only one who doesn't understand this "oil bleed back valve" you speak of, is this something other than the pump bypass valve? I need a little help here.

I don't get it...who cares what goes on with the filter and pump etc....just buy a good quality filter and oil...change your oil and ride 'till next time.

[Alberta Patriot]

20W50 for anyone riding the southwest type climate from hell...10W40(or 5W40 Synthetic) anywhere else...synthetic just lets you significantly extend your riding miles before an oil change...Its the tranny gears that does most of the viscosity breakdown...synthetic just does a better job of resisting shear than dino.
Rotella T6 is as good as any high quality M/C oil you will find...including a "JASO MA" rating approved for transmission and wet clutch applications.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Shell-Rotella-Synthetic-5W-40-Motor-Oil-1-Gal/14958681
Buy two and get free shipping.

That's what I run (5W40) T6, I also use and additive; 150ml of Liqui Moly MOS2. Now this stuff makes a noticeable difference in shifts, particularity in down shifts. (at least that was my observation)

Is the "anti-friction" okay with the clutch??

[Gabriel]

Gabriel, Gabriel, you were almost believable until you got to the "interesting discussion" part and said "Most filters only filter about half the oil" implying that filters normally bypass about half the oil.


The oil pressure occurs because of a restriction of the oil flow by the bearings and other parts of the engine needing lubrication. A pressure relief valve may be provided to limit the max pressure to engine components.

The filter bypass is for pressure drop across the filter and only comes into play when the filter is clogged to the point of creating enough back pressure at the filter to cause the filter to bypass. This occurs to keep the filter from starving engine lubrication. A clean filter creates very little back pressure and all the oil flows through it. 

OK, Lets go a little further;
There are three actions that effect the flow of oil.  the first being the oil pressure by-pass valve located in the oil pump itself that bleeds off excessive pressure presented by the entire lubrication system.

The second is the by-pass valve located in the filter itself.
This valve activates anytime the pressure exceeds the filters media flow capacity which is almost constantly and increases as the filter becomes restricted. It does not by-pass all the oil, only the oil the filter can not handle at it's design pressure.
Let me give you and example that you have probably seen at least once if you have lived long enough.
This would be the swelling and/or splitting of the filter case, or the filter o-ring being blown out on a properly installed filter.
When this happens the capacity and the ability of the by-pass valve has been exceeded.
Two actions can cause this, the first is the oil pump by-pass valve is not functioning and/or the housing/o-ring is overwhelmed by the filters inability to by-pass volume due to excessive restriction.

The third is the oil bleed back valve, I think everyone understands this. 

You now also know why why the oil pressure tap for the gauge/light is down stream from the filter. When you see pressures exceeding the rating of the filter by-pass valve oil is being sent around the filter.

There are design exceptions to everything, however 90+ % conform to the above design and obviously viscosity effects the perimeters of all these functions.

My final comments:
All oil pumped into the filter finally goes to the engine for lubrication. It either passes thru the filter media if the filter is not clogged or thru the bypass valve to the engine unfiltered if it becomes clogged (dirty enough) to the point of creating enough back pressure to bypass.

I'm probably the only one who doesn't understand this "oil bleed back valve" you speak of, is this something other than the pump bypass valve? I need a little help here.

You are absolutely right but think of it also like this; if the oil pump delivers more oil than the filter media can filter, it is by-passed then also. (same, to the engine).

The bleed back valve; it just holds the oil in the filter so it won't drain back and empty itself when the engine is not running.
It's not held under pressure, but you can see about how much it holds when you change the filter, that way the oil pump does not have to fill the filter first before it gets to the rest of the engine.

[Gabriel]

20W50 for anyone riding the southwest type climate from hell...10W40(or 5W40 Synthetic) anywhere else...synthetic just lets you significantly extend your riding miles before an oil change...Its the tranny gears that does most of the viscosity breakdown...synthetic just does a better job of resisting shear than dino.
Rotella T6 is as good as any high quality M/C oil you will find...including a "JASO MA" rating approved for transmission and wet clutch applications.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Shell-Rotella-Synthetic-5W-40-Motor-Oil-1-Gal/14958681
Buy two and get free shipping.

That's what I run (5W40) T6, I also use and additive; 150ml of Liqui Moly MOS2. Now this stuff makes a noticeable difference in shifts, particularity in down shifts. (at least that was my observation)

Is the "anti-friction" okay with the clutch??

Yes within reason, as long as you stay at or below 2% you're good to go.

I would like to say something at this point about most friction modifiers and it's effect of wet clutches, because I see it come up often but it's like speaking about politics and religion so I try to kinda shy away.
Most Japanese bikes contain metal fibers in their fiber clutch discs and here is where the problem really is. I'm not sure about the % of metal content but it's enough to be a problem in some bikes to create slippage... (metal fiber disc more or less against a metal drive disc)

You can run a full load on a bike like a Harley (4%), because they contain no metal in their fiber discs.
(If they are still made the same way?)

Take a look at this product, it is the one I use.
https://www.liqui-moly.eu/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1580.html?OpenDocument&land=de

[The emperor has no clothes]

20W50 for anyone riding the southwest type climate from hell...10W40(or 5W40 Synthetic) anywhere else...synthetic just lets you significantly extend your riding miles before an oil change...Its the tranny gears that does most of the viscosity breakdown...synthetic just does a better job of resisting shear than dino.
Rotella T6 is as good as any high quality M/C oil you will find...including a "JASO MA" rating approved for transmission and wet clutch applications.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Shell-Rotella-Synthetic-5W-40-Motor-Oil-1-Gal/14958681
Buy two and get free shipping.

That's what I run (5W40) T6, I also use and additive; 150ml of Liqui Moly MOS2. Now this stuff makes a noticeable difference in shifts, particularity in down shifts. (at least that was my observation)

Is the "anti-friction" okay with the clutch??

Yes within reason, as long as you stay at or below 2% you're good to go.

I would like to say something at this point about most friction modifiers and it's effect of wet clutches, because I see it come up often but it's like speaking about politics and religion so I try to kinda shy away.
Most Japanese bikes contain metal fibers in their fiber clutch discs and here is where the problem really is. I'm not sure about the % of metal content but it's enough to be a problem in some bikes to create slippage... (metal fiber disc more or less against a metal drive disc)

You can run a full load on a bike like a Harley (4%), because they contain no metal in their fiber discs.
(If they are still made the same way?)

Take a look at this product, it is the one I use.
https://www.liqui-moly.eu/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1580.html?OpenDocument&land=de

I understand your reluctance to bring it up. How long have you been using it ?

[Gabriel]

Not long in this Bike, maybe 1000 miles?
We have to keep in mind it's a very small amount 2% or about 70 Ml in our case.
I stated 150 ml before but that is the whole can. (brain fart)

[Alberta Patriot]

Gabriel...I would be very cautious about adding any kind of friction modifiers.  Any JASO MA rated oil has all the additives needed to keep your engine protected...why risk clutch issues.

[Gabriel]

Gabriel...I would be very cautious about adding any kind of friction modifiers.  Any JASO MA rated oil has all the additives needed to keep your engine protected...why risk clutch issues.

I don't consider it a risk, people say Mobile One should not be used because it will make the clutch slip, I had 103K on my other Valk when I sold it. It spent it's life on Mobile One, I know, the oil companies tell you to use MC oil, of course they sell it for a lot more money.
Well a Royal Purple engineer did not tell me that when I ask him what the difference was  between their car oil and Mc oil, he said nothing really. (as it pertains to a wet clutch)
I use MOS2 because of the notchy/clunky transmissions on these bikes.

 And just think, many of us run a oil designed for heavy duty diesel trucks with different additives that were never designed for our application, but because it contains an approved API that matches what we need people think its OK to use it.
Is it good or bad I have no idea? I'm using (right now) it because it's cheap. (I mean cheaper)

But I must add that I went to the horses mouth with all of this, I spoke to the people (engineers and Chemist) that make these products mentioned here (not the T6 oil though).

There are a lot of myths floating around the inter-webs and of course to much of a good thing might be bad. (probably is)

Did we hijack this thread? Sorry OP..

[Alberta Patriot]

Tires and Oil the two dicey topics with as many opinions as riders.

[Gabriel]

I have one more thing that fits into the topic here about running synthetic motor oil.
 
 In the late 90's I was teaching a class at the Collage in my Lab where we were building a Chevy engine and after completion and run in the cam went flat.
I contacted Crane Cams in Florida and they wanted the camshaft and lifters back, after a few days they contacted me and asked if we were using synthetic oil, I said yes Mobile One and their reply was that this is the problem.
These engines us a flat tappet camshaft that rotates the lifter body as it follows the lift ramp on the cam and the lifter must rotate because the overturning forces are to great to raise the lifter straight up.
I already knew this because the lifter does not sit centered on the lobe.
What I did not know is synthetic oil does not allow the lifter to spin and the sheer was so excessive it wore the lobe flat.
Now you would think that if the oil is slick enough to not spin the lifter it would be slick enough not to harm the cam, it just ain't so. Once the cam is broken in it's safe to use syn.
So some applications and some circumstances are not suitable synthetic motor oil...

[98valk]

I have one more thing that fits into the topic here about running synthetic motor oil.
 
 In the late 90's I was teaching a class at the Collage in my Lab where we were building a Chevy engine and after completion and run in the cam went flat.
I contacted Crane Cams in Florida and they wanted the camshaft and lifters back, after a few days they contacted me and asked if we were using synthetic oil, I said yes Mobile One and their reply was that this is the problem.
These engines us a flat tappet camshaft that rotates the lifter body as it follows the lift ramp on the cam and the lifter must rotate because the overturning forces are to great to raise the lifter straight up.
I already knew this because the lifter does not sit centered on the lobe.
What I did not know is synthetic oil does not allow the lifter to spin and the sheer was so excessive it wore the lobe flat.
Now you would think that if the oil is slick enough to not spin the lifter it would be slick enough not to harm the cam, it just ain't so. Once the cam is broken in it's safe to use syn.
So some applications and some circumstances are not suitable synthetic motor oil...

also crane had problems with the hardening of the lobes back then using cheaper suppliers.

your spinning your wheels with owners on this site when it comes to oil. they like changing 3k miles with syn cause they feel good and its cheap insurance. I've done oil analysis with 10w30 diesel oil and at 10k miles of usage it was still good to use. and this was over 2 yrs and 2 winters. was all going to work mileage, whereas the longest hwy trip was 15 miles. u can look up my posts trying to educate people. I just read, shake my head and laugh nowadays, what people post.  DDT with his hwy usage if he done one UOA, he would have seen he could have gone at least 12-15k miles btwn each oil change maybe longer.  there were other yrs ago who posted they where using 5w40 for 10k miles all of the time, just changing the filter at 5k miles and toping off.