Battleships

[RP#62]

I was in Long Beach on business a couple of weeks ago and while there I had an opportunity to visit the battleship Iowa which is over at San Pedro just north of Terminal Island.  This is the 4th battleship that I’ve been on in my lifetime and it made me wonder how many are left.  Turns out there are eight of them still above the water line and all of them are in a state of preservation as museums.

USS Massachusetts (BB-59) at Battleship Cove in Fall River, Mass
USS New Jersey (BB-62) at Camden NJ, across the river from Philly
USS Wisconsin (BB-64) at Norfolk VA, adjacent to the National Maritime Museum
USS North Carolina (BB-55), at Wilmington, NC
USS Alabama (BB-60), at Mobile Bay, AL
USS Texas (BB-35), at the San Jacinto Monument east of Houston, TX
USS Iowa (BB-61), at San Pedro, CA
USS Missouri (BB-63), at Pearl Harbor, HI

Of these, the Iowa, New Jersey, Wisconsin and Missouri are all sister ships, they’re all Iowa class battleships and were among the last ones commissioned (1943-1944).

All of these except the Texas were the type called fast battleships meaning they could travel with the aircraft carriers at cruising speed and run down enemy battle cruisers.     They were commissioned beginning in 1941

The Texas was a pre-World War I era battleship.  It was a New York class dreadnought type, commissioned in 1914.

All battleships except one were named for states.  The USS Kearsarge (BB-5) was named by an act of Congress to honor the famous Civil War sloop-of-war Kearsarge, which had recently sunk (BB-5 was christened in 1898).

The Missouri had been in Bremerton Washington up until 1998, when the Secretary of the Navy signed a donation contract that transferred her to the USS Missouri Memorial Association in Honolulu.  The Navy figured that the Missouri should be at Pearl Harbor watching over the Arizona beings as the war in the Pacific essentially began with the sinking of the Arizona and ended with the Japanese surrender signed aboard the Missouri.

Most if not all of the remaining eight are supported with private funds.  While you’re out looking for worthy destinations for the fat lady, consider swinging by one of these and buy a t-shirt or something and help keep the grey ladies alive.

-RP

[Oss]

I would swear that I was on the Missouri in San Diego in 1970 while on a YMCA  camping trip

Those guns were B I G

[Jess from VA]

Very cool post RP.   

I've been aboard a number of square rigged Tall Ships from around the world many years ago, and down inside a sub in a Chicago museum, and the static display in Fells Point in Baltimore harbor, but would love to walk around one of the Iowa Class battle wagons. 

I've also been around a number of USAF aircraft museums and displays, but even the largest warbirds are puny by comparison.

[icandoitfaster]

Our school concert band had the privilege of performing a concert on the Missouri three years ago in Pearl Harbor. I too was impressed with the size of her guns. The kids found the experience amazing!

[RP#62]

Three of the four that I've been on were museums, but I went on the New Jersey when it was operational.  When I was a teenager, they had recommissioned the New Jersey for action in Vietnam.  It made a stop in Norfolk for an open house before heading south and we went aboard.  I will never forget.  I read a story back then, don't know if it's true, but evidently it took fire from a small island off North Vietnam . . . .which it summarily sunk.

-RP

[scooperhsd]

All of our WWII "Fast Battleships" that were commisioned had 9 16 inch guns as their main battery,  with 5inch/38 cal in dual mounts as secondary (and various numbers of 40mm and 20mm AA guns).  The 4 Iowa class BB were the fastest, both because they had the most SHP and the fact they were longer (the Iowa's could do 33 Kts, the other Fast BB's were 28-30 Kts).

There are 2 other classes of ships that were also interesting -the Alaska class CB (battlecruisers) with 9 x 12 inch main battery (and designed 33 Knot speed)  and the Montana Class BB's (12x 16 inch main battery - 60,000 tons displacement (the Iowas were "only" 45,000 tons, the others only 35,000 tons). The Montana's were designed to go slug it out with the Japanese Yamato giants (9x18inch main battery, 60,000 tons, 28 Knots). The Montana's were canceled before construction began, but the Alaska's did join the PACific fleet right before the war's end.


Yes - I'm a bit of a Navy geek

[John Schmidt]

Don't know if it's true or not but I heard/read somewhere that if a battleship fired all cannons at once in the same direction, the recoil was so great it would slide the ship 15' sideways. You Navy guys let me know if this is true or not, I find that stuff fascinating....true or not.

[98valk]

Don't know if it's true or not but I heard/read somewhere that if a battleship fired all cannons at once in the same direction, the recoil was so great it would slide the ship 15' sideways. You Navy guys let me know if this is true or not, I find that stuff fascinating....true or not.

That is true.  each shell was the size of a VW beetle and would travel 20 miles.

[98valk]

The USS New Jersey is the longest of the class by a few feet. It served the longest of all and four wars, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and Gulf War.

[Hook#3287]

Cool post

Thanks RP

Fall River, MA is just a day trip for me, putting that on my bucket list.

[The emperor has no clothes]

We were in dry dock in Bremerton for 6 months. I went on the Missouri during that time. It's impressive for sure. I didn't really appreciate it that much at the time. My interests were more towards women and partying at the time. Unfortunately my interests have changed and I would appreciate it much more now. 

[3fan4life]

We were in dry dock in Bremerton for 6 months. I went on the Missouri during that time. It's impressive for sure. I didn't really appreciate it that much at the time. My interests were more towards women and partying at the time. Unfortunately my interests have changed and I would appreciate it much more now. 

I went aboard the Missouri while it was at Bremerton also.

That would've been sometime in 1983.

When I was there a carrier was tied up beside it, I think that it was the Forrestal but I'm not sure about that.

[The emperor has no clothes]

We were in dry dock in Bremerton for 6 months. I went on the Missouri during that time. It's impressive for sure. I didn't really appreciate it that much at the time. My interests were more towards women and partying at the time. Unfortunately my interests have changed and I would appreciate it much more now. 

I went aboard the Missouri while it was at Bremerton also.

That would've been sometime in 1983.

When I was there a carrier was tied up beside it, I think that it was the Forrestal but I'm not sure about that.

'82 for me. My memory is not good enough to remember. To be honest, the only thing that sticks with me is the wood decks and the HUGE guns.

[cookiedough]

a few years ago had the opportunity to tour the USS Alabama and all of us were amazed at the sheer size and number of decks BELOW.  Plus, living quarters way back then were very cramped and closterphobic (spelling?) for sure. 

What we thought would be 2-3 hours of walking around turned into 5 hours, all were impressed and well worth the price of admission.   They also had a small submarine and unless under 250lbs.,  very hard to squeeze thru the doors/hatches, plus watch your head if even normal 5'10" height.  WACK!!!

[The emperor has no clothes]

a few years ago had the opportunity to tour the USS Alabama and all of us were amazed at the sheer size and number of decks BELOW.  Plus, living quarters way back then were very cramped and closterphobic (spelling?) for sure. 

What we thought would be 2-3 hours of walking around turned into 5 hours, all were impressed and well worth the price of admission.   They also had a small submarine and unless under 250lbs.,  very hard to squeeze thru the doors/hatches, plus watch your head if even normal 5'10" height.  WACK!!!

I don't think the living quarters have changed much. At least not while I was in. We had probably 300 in my hold. If you are a light sleeper you are going to have issues.

[98 T]

Back in 2003 I had the privilege of touring the Missouri in Pearl Harbor.   I was there with my brother-in-law who did 6 years in the Navy as a boiler's mate (I think that's the term he used) from about 1985-1991. We did the "tourist" tour...you could only go in a few ares of the ship  and walk around on deck.

  Well,  one of the volunteers working there overheard my brother-in-law  talk about spending 6 years working the boiler of a fuel resupply ship and ran over to talk with a supervisor.  They came back to us and said if we wanted to,  they would take us on a real in-depth,  "Special"  tour.  So,  us two, along with 2 tour guides and a couple other people were given hard hats, safety vests,  and flashlights and we got to go 5 stories below deck and see parts of the ship not yet opened to the public.... something about cleaning up all the asbestos  down there!

Saw the crew berthing areas,  the brig, the computer room where they calculated the trajectory of the 16 guns,  the top 2 stories of the 4 main boilers....

That was  an awesome way to spend 3 extra hours!!!  My brother-in-law even explained to the tour guides how you would go about starting the 4 giant  boilers for the  4  main screws and the other  4 or 6 ( can't recall) boilers that ran other things on the ship... power generators, pressure lines to open and close the steam-powered deck hatches, etc...    We got to see just about everything that most tourist never get to see.  


Of course, it was also really cool to stand on the deck in the exact same spot MacArthur signed the  surrender treaty with Japan too.

Your post brought back memories.  Thanks for posting!

[old2soon]

Seen them from a distance but I served on a carrier-U S S Yorktown CVS-10. I STILL have scars on my shins from the hatches. I have stood just above a 5" 38 when It fired. I can NOT imagine being close to one of those 16" Rifles when it fires. If memory serves the Yorktown could do 35 knots but it shook like a harley. Talked to some Grunts that were thankful when that Battle Wagon showed up. RIDE SAFE.

[RP#62]

Seen them from a distance but I served on a carrier-U S S Yorktown CVS-10. I STILL have scars on my shins from the hatches. I have stood just above a 5" 38 when It fired. I can NOT imagine being close to one of those 16" Rifles when it fires. If memory serves the Yorktown could do 35 knots but it shook like a harley. Talked to some Grunts that were thankful when that Battle Wagon showed up. RIDE SAFE.

My old man was on Hornet, Yorktown and Princeton when we were on the west coast and on Randolf, Intrepid and Nimitz on the east coast.  He was aircrew (AT) not ships company.  The Navy let him ship over at 30 years but told him he'd be going back to sea.  He told me he was ok with that - the Nimitz was a luxury liner compared to the other boats he'd been on.

-RP

[Tailgate Tommy]

Cool post. My step dad, who's 92, was a gunner on the USS California in WWII during all the island campaigns. He was injured and doesn't talk much about it.
 

[RDAbull]

My old man was on Hornet, Yorktown and Princeton when we were on the west coast and on Randolf, Intrepid and Nimitz on the east coast.  He was aircrew (AT) not ships company.  The Navy let him ship over at 30 years but told him he'd be going back to sea.  He told me he was ok with that - the Nimitz was a luxury liner compared to the other boats he'd been on.

-RP
[/quote]

My old man was on the Hornet also.  He took her out on her shakedown cruise and stayed aboard until she returned to San Francisco after the typhoon damage in '45.  He was discharged from the Navy hospital in SF in '46 and came back to Indiana, never seeing the ocean again.  On of my clients flew SB2T's off her and made arrangements for me to meet Dad's best buddie and bunkmate a few years ago.  The line stretches long.

[The emperor has no clothes]

My old man was on Hornet, Yorktown and Princeton when we were on the west coast and on Randolf, Intrepid and Nimitz on the east coast.  He was aircrew (AT) not ships company.  The Navy let him ship over at 30 years but told him he'd be going back to sea.  He told me he was ok with that - the Nimitz was a luxury liner compared to the other boats he'd been on.

-RP

My old man was on the Hornet also.  He took her out on her shakedown cruise and stayed aboard until she returned to San Francisco after the typhoon damage in '45.  He was discharged from the Navy hospital in SF in '46 and came back to Indiana, never seeing the ocean again.  On of my clients flew SB2T's off her and made arrangements for me to meet Dad's best buddie and bunkmate a few years ago.  The line stretches long.
[/quote] :cooldude:very cool !

[art]

I was born and raised 3 miles from Boston harbor. and got to visit the USS Constitution as a kid in the 50s and went back 2 times with my family an took my kids to visit it plus Bunker Hill monument. Old Ironsides  has quite a history and every one should read about it. Over the years she was almost sent to the junk yard but was saved due to children saving coins from all over the country.

[Daniel Meyer]

 

[old2soon]

Seen them from a distance but I served on a carrier-U S S Yorktown CVS-10. I STILL have scars on my shins from the hatches. I have stood just above a 5" 38 when It fired. I can NOT imagine being close to one of those 16" Rifles when it fires. If memory serves the Yorktown could do 35 knots but it shook like a harley. Talked to some Grunts that were thankful when that Battle Wagon showed up. RIDE SAFE.

My old man was on Hornet, Yorktown and Princeton when we were on the west coast and on Randolf, Intrepid and Nimitz on the east coast.  He was aircrew (AT) not ships company.  The Navy let him ship over at 30 years but told him he'd be going back to sea.  He told me he was ok with that - the Nimitz was a luxury liner compared to the other boats he'd been on.

-RP

          Took a bit of a ramble to get to the Yorktown as she was on Station already when I caught up with Her. A Navy fleet oiler-terrible chow-The U S S Sacramento I believe A O E-1-cursed good chow and then to the Big E-U S S Enterprise C V N-65. The E-boat was an ocean liner and served Great chow and I was aboard her for 3 and a half days as super cargo and then-my ship-U S S Yorktown and reality came crashing down upon my gourd. Us enlisted pukes did NOT have air conditioned sleeping quarters and the food was less than marginal. But I survived and did my job. Would NOT change anything-well cept maybe the chow!  RIDE SAFE.

[RDKLL]

Don't know if it's true or not but I heard/read somewhere that if a battleship fired all cannons at once in the same direction, the recoil was so great it would slide the ship 15' sideways. You Navy guys let me know if this is true or not, I find that stuff fascinating....true or not.

That is a common misconception and I found this trying to come up with the answer
WAY more math than you asked for...http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-022.php

[RDKLL]

I was stationed on the USS John F. Kennedy in the early 80's and the USS New Jersey was on station with us off the coast of Beirut. There was a picture that one of the crewman painted that depicted an underway replenishment with the Kennedy on one side of the supply ship and the New Jersey on the other.
There were stories that the New Jersey was on trials when they were called to deply and by the time they got back home that had been deplyed for almost a year and they were quickly rewriting the sea duty rules...

[98valk]

Don't know if it's true or not but I heard/read somewhere that if a battleship fired all cannons at once in the same direction, the recoil was so great it would slide the ship 15' sideways. You Navy guys let me know if this is true or not, I find that stuff fascinating....true or not.

That is a common misconception and I found this trying to come up with the answer
WAY more math than you asked for...http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-022.php

good to know. I worked for the Navy for 33 yrs and the movement was always told to be true and in most articles I have about the Class. Even some WWII vets I worked with when I first started told me the same thing. Thanks.

[RP#62]

Its still pretty impressive
-RP

[Jess from VA]

Wiki:

16"/50 caliber Mark 7 – United States Naval Gun was the main armament of the Iowa-class battleships.  The barrels are 66.6 feet long.  Each gun weighs about 267,900 pounds with the breech.  They fire projectiles weighing from 1,900 to 2,700 pounds at a velocity of up to 2,690 feet per second with a range of up to 24 miles.  A maximum charge consisted of six silk bags of special smokeless powder, each filled with 110 pounds of propellant.  Each turret required a crew of 79 men to operate.

Kinda makes my .44 mag, 7 1/2"bbl, Ruger Redhawk, weighing 54 ounces, with a 240 grain bullet, 23 grains of powder, with a velocity of up to 1400 feet per second a bit puny.  It only takes a crew of one however.

Still....

[Hook#3287]

RP, that's an impressive picture 

It's sure looks like the ship is being moved to the right, if you look at the water trails off the bow.

[Hook#3287]

Just wanted to show a couple of pics of the great battleship USS MASSACHUSETTS (BB-59) at Battleship Cove in Fall River, Mass  

And a BIG Thank You to RP#62 for bringing it to my attention.

2 riding buds and I went to visit, them being ex-military.  One friend, Steve, was on the USS Independence (CV-62), so he had recollections and the other friend, Jack, was a refueling planes head mechanic for the USMC.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,95085.msg944709.html#msg944709

You can see the submarine USS Lionfish (SS-298) in the foreground.  You can slightly see the Hiddensee, a Russian/East Germany corvette in between and the USS Joseph P. Kennedy, Jr. (DD-850), a destroyer is on the left.

They also have 2 amazing PT boats in a covered shed.  All I could think of was Ernie Borgnine & Tim Conway and their antics in the show Mccalls Navy.  Very, very impressive boats up close!!!



What a truly awesome piece of machinery, the tour took so much longer than we figured it would and they almost had to ask us to leave.


I would suggest to anyone with any interest in the Navy or WW2 to take the time to check it out.

[The emperor has no clothes]

They are pretty cool  I have thought about taking Brenda on one of those tours. But I don't think she'd find it interesting like we do. Maybe my grandson one of these days. Thanks for sharing, brings back some memories. Did you go down in any of the sleeping berths ?

[baldo]

Cool post

Thanks RP

Fall River, MA is just a day trip for me, putting that on my bucket list.

I've been on the USS Massachusetts a couple of times. A really good take. Every time I go over the Braga Bridge I look over to see the tops of the antennas just making it over the roadway.

[RP#62]

Just wanted to show a couple of pics of the great battleship USS MASSACHUSETTS (BB-59) at Battleship Cove in Fall River, Mass  

And a BIG Thank You to RP#62 for bringing it to my attention.

2 riding buds and I went to visit, them being ex-military.  One friend, Steve, was on the USS Independence (CV-62), so he had recollections and the other friend, Jack, was a refueling planes head mechanic for the USMC.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,95085.msg944709.html#msg944709

You can see the submarine USS Lionfish (SS-298) in the foreground.  You can slightly see the Hiddensee, a Russian/East Germany corvette in between and the USS Joseph P. Kennedy, Jr. (DD-850), a destroyer is on the left.

They also have 2 amazing PT boats in a covered shed.  All I could think of was Ernie Borgnine & Tim Conway and their antics in the show Mccalls Navy.  Very, very impressive boats up close!!!



What a truly awesome piece of machinery, the tour took so much longer than we figured it would and they almost had to ask us to leave.


I would suggest to anyone with any interest in the Navy or WW2 to take the time to check it out.

Thanks Hook.  My sister lives in Wilmington NC and I've been wanting to go back to Norfolk to see the McArthur Memorial anyway, so we've been thinking about an east coast trip to knock out 4 of the remaining 8 BBs.  It a bucket list item to go on all 8 before I cash in my chips.

-RP

[Hook#3287]

Did you go down in any of the sleeping berths ?

Oh yeah, tight quarters.  I laid down on a cot and was not much impressed with the comfort level the Navy gives out.  I guess if they work you like a dog, it don't matter.

They had a berth that was scattered with shrapnel from a French Destroyer.  Luckily, everyone was at Battle Stations and no one was hurt.  The museum painted all the damage in red so you can see it clearly.

I've been on the USS Massachusetts a couple of times. A really good take. Every time I go over the Braga Bridge I look over to see the tops of the antennas just making it over the roadway.

Yeah, that bridge is also pretty impressive.  Maybe in a couple of years, when I forget I was there, I'll go back.

Thanks Hook.  My sister lives in Wilmington NC and I've been wanting to go back to Norfolk to see the McArthur Memorial anyway, so we've been thinking about an east coast trip to knock out 4 of the remaining 8 BBs.  It a bucket list item to go on all 8 before I cash in my chips.

-R

No, thank you for pointing the way.  If you hadn't, I would probably never have gone.  I hope you get all 8 in.

And this is one reason why this board ROCKS!!!

[old2soon]

The racks-you didn't call them beds-were not known for comfort but after being awake and Working for anywhere from 24 to 51 hours you really did not care bout comfort at that point. And in the case of the older Ship I was Serving on-U S S Yorktown C V S-10-the sea water evaporators were not very efficient in warm water. Sometimes you rinsed the soap from your shower off with salt water. NOT a fun deal when it's over 100 degrees F with 80 to 90% humidity. Even though tired I looked forward to flying. Hotter and sweatier-survival gear over a flight suit and a helmet and very heavy hot boots-but sometimes I could catch a nap of 35 minutes to an hour before we got to our patrol station. IF my heart and lungs could stand it would Not mind running up and down the ladders tween decks again. I could stand to lose bout 25 pounds or so.  Had an old Chief-E 8-tell me-you ain't on a luxury liner boy this Be a United States Navy ManOWar. And I Never forgot that. Battle Ships Carriers Destroyers Cruisers Submarines Military Air Craft are All designed to kill other military vehicles and the people that man them. You do NOT wanna be on the receiving end of those 16 inch Naval Rifles. Wonder how long it would take to spool up an old Battle Ship and train crews to operate again if they are ever needed? RIDE SAFE.

[scooperhsd]

One of the Iowa's in the reserve fleet - about 18 months - 2 years. The others in the reserve fleet - 3-4 years.

The museums  - 4-5 years each (have to undo all those changes to make them tourist friendly that compromise water tight integrity). And that's assuming you can find enough shipyards able to do the work (and they can find people able to work on them).

WHile you're at it - see if you can find out how long it took to reactivate the Iowa's in the  '80's (they also added some modern weapons as well).

Overall - they are not cost effective to bring back - rather manpower intensive.

[Firefighter]

I toured the Battleship Texas at Port Houston about a month ago. First ship I have ever been aboard. I was amazed that 1500 crew lived and worked together, the vessel didn't seem large enough for that. Heard a current sailor say "we thought we had it rough". I tried to imagine living like that and then being shot at but know I have no ideal.

My hat is off to all of you service men and women, can't imagine where we would be without you, Thank you for your sacrifice.

The Texas was closed to public shortly after I left, seems it is leaking so bad that it is listing to one side. I know they are having a difficult time keeping her afloat.

Port Brownsville close to where I live is the final end to a lot of ships. We have had many ships towed around the world to be scrapped there. I have gone to see them towed in from the Gulf of Mexico. Saratoga, Forrestal, Constellation, more are on the way. Many saddened sailors come from all over to see these ships for a last time.

[MAD6Gun]

 Years ago when I was 16 my brother Wayne and I went on a road trip down to Beloxi MS to visit one of his air force buddies. While we were there we went over to see the Alabama. That thing was huge. We also toured the sub anchored near by the US Drum. Was very cool.......

[Skinhead]

The only enlisted POWat the Hanoi Hilton during the Vietnam war, was a sailor who disobeyed orders and went out on deck to watch the 16s Fire. The concussion knocked him overboard, and he was eventually picked up by a NV fishing boat.  He acted like he was a dim wit and the NV released him early.  The officers at the hilton made him memorize all the names of the POWs, both dead and alive, before his release.  He brought that Intel back.  Unfortunately, I don't recall his name and rating.