Another Fuel/Tank/Petcock question - Fixed - Bad Petcock

[Steve-L]

Just curious.....it could be another issue but what do the plugs look like?

Yeah, I suppose it's a possibility that it is a fouled plug or ignition issue, I'll take a look. Initially both symptoms seem fuel related. Problem 1. - Petcock doesn't switch to reserve. Problem 2. - intermittent misfire/sputtering at approx. 60mph/5th gear @3Krpm, problem resolves by releasing gas and coasting for 15~30 secs.

[Leathel]

Just curious.....it could be another issue but what do the plugs look like?

Yeah, I suppose it's a possibility that it is a fouled plug or ignition issue, I'll take a look. Initially both symptoms seem fuel related. Problem 1. - Petcock doesn't switch to reserve. Problem 2. - intermittent misfire/sputtering at approx. 60mph/5th gear @3Krpm, problem resolves by releasing gas and coasting for 15~30 secs.

rich and fouled almost feel like lean at times, especially if you have 2 issues.

 I had a few similar issues and it was float level related, I went down the lean way first until i checked the plugs

[Steve-L]

Here's a picture of what I have it looking like now, which from the part blow-up.



Part number 23, I also have the rubber washer below it, although in the blow-up it looks like they position that below the tank tongue.

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2000/GL1500CT+A/FUEL+TANK/parts.html

[Bone]

My 98 Tourer looks like your setup. I'll look at it again in the morning to be positive

Mine looks exactly like yours !

[MarkT]

Don't know if this is any help for you, but if you are having vent problems - I needed to vent Jade thru the cap as the OEM vent was redirected to vent the belly tank. I bought the cap, I suspect the same as listed above - it's an exact replacement visually for the Valk cap.  But has a vent in it with one-way check valve.  Yeah you carry 2 keys.  You already are doing that.  Changing the cap is a 10 minute project at worst - 2 screws involved.  I mark my keys with colored tiny wire ties - green is run, yellow is fuel.  You can't just recut the key to use one key - it has an opposite stagger on the key blank.  You will be done with the fuel vent issue forever.

[Steve-L]

Mark, you just convinced me. Not sure that's my problem, but it's a cheap enough part to make it worth a try.

I will check the plugs too though. I'm already using another key. So for some reason or another this cap, or tank was previously replaced. The dealer mumbled something about the cap being replaced when I bought it but he had no details as he handed me the 2nd key.

Any ideas on the best vendor to get this part in a reasonable amount of time?

[Steve-L]

My 98 Tourer looks like your setup. I'll look at it again in the morning to be positive

Thanks Bone.

[MarkT]

Mark, you just convinced me. Not sure that's my problem, but it's a cheap enough part to make it worth a try.

I will check the plugs too though. I'm already using another key. So for some reason or another this cap, or tank was previously replaced. The dealer mumbled something about the cap being replaced when I bought it but he had no details as he handed me the 2nd key.

Any ideas on the best vendor to get this part in a reasonable amount of time?

I've been pretty happy with partzilla.  The P/N for the cap I got was 17620-MB1-033 at partzilla.

[PhoenixRizing]

May be a dumb question but what is a pingel? And where do I get one?

[Bone]

 Pingel Enterprise, Inc., Manufacturer & Distributor of High Quality Motorcycle Performance Parts for Street and Drag Since 1967.

They make a petcock that fits our Valkyrie. Many of the parts shops offer them.

[Dale_K]

Many years ago with my original Valkyrie I had a similar problem where a long 70 mph hill would start starving the bike for gas.  I also had a funny squeak sound that would repeat every engine revolution at idle.  Both things were related to each other.  A couple of the vacuum lines behind the intake pipes were leaking.  That's what was making the squeak and the lack of vacuum was killing the petcock.  In my case the gas starvation wasn't bad enough to kill the motor, just make it run bad.

[Steve-L]

Mark, you just convinced me. Not sure that's my problem, but it's a cheap enough part to make it worth a try.

I will check the plugs too though. I'm already using another key. So for some reason or another this cap, or tank was previously replaced. The dealer mumbled something about the cap being replaced when I bought it but he had no details as he handed me the 2nd key.

Any ideas on the best vendor to get this part in a reasonable amount of time?

I've been pretty happy with partzilla.  The P/N for the cap I got was 17620-MB1-033 at partzilla.

It took a few days to get it here from Partzilla, I put it on immediately yesterday and although the weather was damp and overcast I went out for a 30 mile ride. It was inconsistent and intermittent from the start but I could usually/sometimes replicate the conditions and get it to fail sometimes. This time, with the new cap I couldn't get it to fail.

Today I took the bike out again, after the rain stopped. I took it out for a 70 miles ride and did my best to get it to go into this crazy fuel starvation mode. But no dice. It insisted on running flawlessly.  In fact, maybe my imagination, but it seemed to rev a tad freer and run a like it was breathing better.

I also tested the petcock functionality. ran it in Run mode, switched to Off and ran it till the bike went into to fuel starvation mode, then switched to Reserve, and vroom-vroom, off I went. This is with the screw in the petcock snugged down properly.

I need to do the research on the Pingle and all the Dan-Mark things I've heard about but a not fluent on, and I will, but for the time being I'm good.

Tomorrow I'm taking a few folks up into western VT and doing a 225 miles loop. If it behaves all the way, I'll be declaring it completely resolved. I'd be very surprised if it disappoints me.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH to all of the folks who contributed all excellent advice on this thread. GREAT APPRECIATED!!

Steve L

[Steve-L]

A revision to the post above where I thought I had my issue resolved. The new vented cap definitely changed the situation but hasn't solved it. Yesterday up in Vermont mountains on 2 very long up hill stretches, maybe a mile long, gradual uphill climb at 20%  throttle, 55mph, long sweepers on Rt30N, it went into this "stuttering/skipping" mode.

I thought I had it with the fuel cap change, but it just seems to have helped the problem but not solved it.

This is a new bike to me. Cosmetically almost perfect, 30K miles, Y2K Tourer. When I got it the cap had been changed once as they gave me 2 keys (one for cap, one for engine). Runs beautiful most of the time. Seems to happen about 3Krpm, although yesterday maybe a little lower in the range. Makes me wonder if this isn't happening as a transition from slow jet to main jets, or some other lower engine (below petcock) issue.

I guess my obvious next step is to replace the petcock, with a Pingel or OEM, but I'm also thinking since this bike is new to me and I don't have any history with it, what else might be going on, as far as vacuum hoses, carbs etc. I till need to pull all the plugs too. I've been so focused on the upper engine, I haven't done that. ...could be they're the original plugs?!

I guess I was hoping I might find an easy fix for this, but probably time to do some deeper digging.

Is there a good, comprehensive  Pingle install write up out here for reference anywhere should I need it?

Other ideas? Thanks all for all the help so far.

Damn.  ???

[Steve-L]

Many years ago with my original Valkyrie I had a similar problem where a long 70 mph hill would start starving the bike for gas.  I also had a funny squeak sound that would repeat every engine revolution at idle.  Both things were related to each other.  A couple of the vacuum lines behind the intake pipes were leaking.  That's what was making the squeak and the lack of vacuum was killing the petcock.  In my case the gas starvation wasn't bad enough to kill the motor, just make it run bad.

Thank you for this, another possible avenue being the vacuum tubes needing attention and perhaps at 17 years old and only 30K miles, need some attention. Hard to get in and see them well, but most likely need replacing. I don't get any/much popping on decel but I do get a little.

[Leathel]

Did you pull a plug when it did the stutter?

Mine had issues and I could of sworn it was from lack of fuel but I ended up pulling a all the plugs at a time it stuttered and 4 out of the 6 plugs were black and sooty....fouled plugs was the stutter and after playing with a few things trying to sort it I ended up pulling the carbs and I found the float levels were out to the point the floats were hitting the top of the carb body before sealing completely.

I ended up fitting some K&L float valves that are slightly longer so sealing earlier ..... but that was a cheap fix, the best way would have been to replace the floats as they were the actual problem, were distorted but I was short of $$ and that issue is long gone for me.

May not be your problem but a plug check at the time of the stutter will tell you if its rich or not, all plugs if the first one or two are OK as it may not be all carbs, mine wasn't.

My bike only had 11K miles on the clock

[Steve-L]

Did you pull a plug when it did the stutter?

Mine had issues and I could of sworn it was from lack of fuel but I ended up pulling a all the plugs at a time it stuttered and 4 out of the 6 plugs were black and sooty....fouled plugs was the stutter and after playing with a few things trying to sort it I ended up pulling the carbs and I found the float levels were out to the point the floats were hitting the top of the carb body before sealing completely.

I ended up fitting some K&L float valves that are slightly longer so sealing earlier ..... but that was a cheap fix, the best way would have been to replace the floats as they were the actual problem, were distorted but I was short of $$ and that issue is long gone for me.

May not be your problem but a plug check at the time of the stutter will tell you if its rich or not, all plugs if the first one or two are OK as it may not be all carbs, mine wasn't.

My bike only had 11K miles on the clock

Thanks for that info. I was on the road with a small group at the time, and actually thought(hoped) that the problem resolved when I added the vented gas cap.  But it turns out it is just a lot harder to replicate now.. longer periods of "on throttle" seem to be when the problem rears up. (I can wind up through the gears, for instance, and it runs like the wind.)

I am going to pull all the plugs tomorrow morning. I have been spoiled by 20 years of never having a plug get even dirty from my Valks. They need to be looked at. I'll also do some test rides with prep to pull the plugs when it happens.

Thanks for the idea.

[MarkT]

My problems were similar with fuel starvation.  I'd figure the fuel filter was causing the starving so I took it off the gravity line and moved it to the pumped line,  belly tank to main.  Now it wouldn't starve until I had a higher fuel demand, or the fuel level (head pressure) was lower in the tank.  Same thing happened with the smaller-to-larger Dan-Marc, a loop in the line, the line being too long, and the OEM petcock to Pingel. I also changed to a brass T instead of the OEM plastic one between the fuel rails, to get more flexing length to attach to the petcock (removed a barb fitting at the Dan-Marc) - doubt that affected the flow.  After all these changes the fuel starving stopped.  I think the bigger Dan-Marc and getting rid of the fuel filter had the most effect. The worst mileage I measured was 17mpg but I'm sure there were/are higher flow rates for shorter periods. Full throttle, 5th gear, at 70 up a long hill at altitude pulling the heavy Timeout camper, for instance.  My vent may also be marginal as it is provided by the vented cap on the main tank, and by the OEM vent to the belly tank - which likely only could affect the flow through the "bung line" while refilling as that happens over a minute or 2 while the pump-up takes 9 minutes.

[Steve-L]

So just to close this thread out.

The problem turned out to be the petcock. I replaced the petcock and have been riding it over 250 miles now and not one failure. The problem of gas starvation only happened at load, usually with some small throttle to keep speed around 6-!65mph and tachometer at approx. 3000rpm.

I haven't taken apart the petcock yet, but a, ordering a a rebuild kit, just to have one in the garage.

I didn't go with the pingle, primarily because I like the look of the bike much better with the engine hanger covers and, prior to this failure I have been riding my previous Valk since 2001, and 103K miles without any petcock/fuel issues at all.

...but if it happens again I may do the pingel.

Just wanted to close out the thread.

Thanks for all the help from all.