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Author Topic: Balancing A GL1800 Valkyrie Rear Wheel - If You Run Into Trouble....  (Read 4323 times)
Bill Havins
Member
*****
Posts: 413


A roadster!

Abilene, Texas


« on: July 28, 2017, 12:35:30 PM »

Last fall I ended up with a screw in my rear tire.  Oops!  So off to my dealer I rode to get a new set of tires (less than 3000 miles on the set I was replacing - Dawg!).

After the tires were mounted the service manager told me, "...We had to use balance beads in the rear.  We don't have cones that fit the Valkyrie rear wheel...."

Huh?

We began to explore the issue and the service manager explained that the hub of the Valkyrie rear wheel is not as wide as the hub on the Goldwing.  The service department uses a Snap-On wheel balancer.  Their centering cones have an inclusive angle of about 45°.  They've been able to "make do" on the "'ugly' Goldwing mags. " But the thinner width of the Valkyrie hub caused the cones to touch in the middle before they settled into the hub's centering tapers (all of this is explained below).  He said if I would build a set of cones for them they'd gladly balance my rear tire "the regular way."

"Okay," I said.  I wobbled off to break in my new tires.

After I finished my fairing build this summer I set to machining a set of balancing cones that fit the tapers on Valkyrie and Goldwing mags.  Here are several images that will help explain the issues.



The above "schematic" (not to scale) depicts a cross-section of the Valkyrie hub with an axle running through the horizontal center hole.  The Goldwing hub is similar but wider.  The important thing to note is the inclusive angles of the "centering tapers" (the angles on either end of the center hole).  This angle measures 60°.



The above image depicts a typical pair of balancing cones inserted in the Valkyrie hub.  These cones have an inclusive angle of about 45°; they are designed to fit the "centering tapers" of ball bearings.  Uh oh!  To work in Goldwing or Valkyrie hubs they have to settle into the inner ends of the 60° centering tapers at the points marked by the green arrows.  If the surfaces of the cones are damaged they may not "center" on this very thin contact ring.  And if they are too long (like the ones in the image above) their ends will touch before they contact the rims of the centering tapers.  That's what happens when such tapers are used with a Valkyrie rear wheel.  Wobble, wobble, wobble, wobble....and the balancing machine shuts itself off.



A couple of weeks ago I machined a set of balancing cones like those depicted in the above image.  I had a 40mm round rod of cast iron in the garage (doesn't everyone?) so I chucked it up in the lathe and went after it.  (What did I ever buy that for, anyway?  Geez.  What an odd thing to have.)  The cones I machined have an inclusive angle of 60° and are just long enough to fit past the inner edge of the balancing tapers on Goldwing and Valkyrie mags.  We tried them on a Goldwing mag at the dealership and they worked well.

Early this morning I took my scooter in to get the rear tire balanced "for real."  I went inside to talk with the parts manager while the service manager did the work ("No customers in the service bay, please").  It took a long time for the service manager to balance the rear tire.  I'm afraid I began to bore the parts manager - I ran out of "stimulating conversation."

After a while the service manager came in grinning from ear to ear.  He had his helmet in his hand.  He said, "It's ready," and he started chuckling.  It was the first time he had ridden the Valkyrie with the fairing and cruise control installed.  He said, "It worked perfect!"  Then he laughed aloud.  At first I took it to mean the balancing cones worked "perfect."  Later I thought he might have meant something else, or both.  You don't think he...Naw, surely he didn't.

Oh well, so the moral of the story is this - if the service manager tells you they had to use balance beads in your rear tire it may be because they didn't have the right balancing cones to fit the Valkyrie mag.  I guess balance beads are okay.  But it sure was fun to see the look on the service manager's face after I got him to balance it "the regular way."

Bill
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 12:43:20 PM by Bill Havins » Logged

"So many windmills, so little time." - Don Quixote
"Dawg I hate windmills!" - Sancho Panza
hubcapsc
Member
*****
Posts: 16768


upstate

South Carolina


« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2017, 01:14:23 PM »


My Mark Parnes static balancer has cones that fit...

-Mike
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Bill Havins
Member
*****
Posts: 413


A roadster!

Abilene, Texas


« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2017, 01:41:51 PM »


My Mark Parnes static balancer has cones that fit...

-Mike

Gosh he does a great job!  Neat stuff!

The challenge for my dealer was the size of the shaft on their machine: 13.94 millimeters.  What a strange dimension.  It seems like the shaft caused owners to have to buy balancing cones from Snap-On.  I don't believe the specific model has been made in a while; replacement parts and accessories may be harder and harder to find.

I was glad to lend a hand.

Bill
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"So many windmills, so little time." - Don Quixote
"Dawg I hate windmills!" - Sancho Panza
bscrive
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Posts: 2539


Out with the old...in with the wooohoooo!!!!

Ottawa, Ontario


« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2017, 05:15:58 PM »

Bill,

I don't get the dealership to balance my tires.  I usually use ride on, so that they are always balanced throughout their life and the added benefit if puncture sealant.  Smiley

Brian
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Robert
Member
*****
Posts: 16948


S Florida


« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2017, 07:55:41 PM »

 As usual Bill a great job but I use the balancing beads and I have to tell you they are very good.  My bike is smooth at all speeds and I have no issues at all with the balancing beads.

 I do have a regular balancer that  works, but I like the balancing beads better especially since you don't have to put any weights on that are visable. What I have found is really your balancing mostly the rim since there seems to be from all the tires that I bought little difference in the weight  or position of the weights. I thought about spin balancing just a rim and making sure that that's perfectly balanced.  From what I can tell you may not even need weights after that.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 07:59:43 PM by Robert » Logged

“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
hubcapsc
Member
*****
Posts: 16768


upstate

South Carolina


« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2017, 05:13:46 AM »

As usual Bill a great job but I use the balancing beads and I have to tell you they are very good.  My bike is smooth at all speeds and I have no issues at all with the balancing beads.

 I do have a regular balancer that  works, but I like the balancing beads better especially since you don't have to put any weights on that are visable. What I have found is really your balancing mostly the rim since there seems to be from all the tires that I bought little difference in the weight  or position of the weights. I thought about spin balancing just a rim and making sure that that's perfectly balanced.  From what I can tell you may not even need weights after that.

I balanced the front wheel on my 1800 before I put the last tire on... it made
a world of difference, but surely Honda didn't send out a bunch of Goldwing
wheels that suck as much as mine does....

-Mike
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Robert
Member
*****
Posts: 16948


S Florida


« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2017, 06:23:45 AM »

I have not balanced the rim alone yet but my suspicion is that its 1 oz off true.

When I balanced my rear wheel I was able to turn the cone around and it fit snugly in the indent in the wheel. It was centered and secure and at 2 different times with different tires I wound up with almost the same weight in almost the same position. I decided that I was going to try the beads and took the weights off. I dont think I will ever go back to the weights. Between the time it takes, the inherent inaccuracy of this procedure and the ease of using the beads makes it the choice for me. Is it smoother with the beads, I think so but was it out with the Balancing maybe, so the real decision for me came down to ease of use. My bike has no vibrations from tire or any vibration when on the road at any speed.

When I was younger and did the bubble balance on tires before they came out with spin balancers I thought what a crock. I have tried the on the car balancers the results in some cases where better but to me inconclusive and the work to do it was much more. So I resigned myself to spin balancers when done right and calibrated right are the way to go and provide good results. I wish they had this technology for motorcycle tires but lacking that beads seem to do the trick.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 06:36:38 AM by Robert » Logged

“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
hungryeye
Member
*****
Posts: 443


Scottsdale AZ & Climax NC, formally freehold, nj


« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2017, 05:35:44 AM »

Last winter was the 1st time in 45 years I didn't install my own tires, I have used the spin by hand method, balance beads and Ride ON. The GoAz Honda dealer in Scottsdale did a great job of install, not a scratch, used spin balance and stick on weights, I would have preferred the beads.

I have to add, back in 06 I did an AZ to NJ round trip on an 89 Goldwing, installed 2 new tires using Ride On just before trip. I totaled over 5000 miles on that ride in 3 weeks. Upon returning there was any visible wear on either tire.
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