Valkyrie Riders Cruiser Club

Okay, the combination of Dave's... adventure... and my own fork seal springing a leak has me concerned about all the other little things that can leave me on the side of the road in Harley Emulation Mode, so I'd like to start knocking 'em out...

Also, what things should I just pay a shop to do, and which are doable by a computer geek such as myself?

So far on my list:

• Replace fork oil/fork seals (Will just take to a shop to do this one, that does NOT look like a fun DIY job!)
• U-Joint/Drive Shaft/Splines/Anything else in the drive train (Should I just replace all of it to be sure? U-joint was done I think about 50,000 miles ago, and I'm not finding records of when the spline or any of the other bits were last replaced, which means it was at least 30,000 miles ago)
• Had the carb's synched and valves adjusted by a shop 20,000 miles ago. Time to do again?
• The bearings in the wheels have also been there at least 30,000 miles. Should I just replace 'em all?
• I replaced the timing belt at 83,000, so it should be good for quite some time.

Any other critical things I should replace/adjust/look at, etc as I'm getting closer to the big 100,0000? I know 99% of this is in the shop manual or the tech board, but I trust ya'll's collective judgment a lot more...

Thanks again!

Yeowch! Just got my first quote for having the fork seals/fork oil replaced... $360... Okay, so just how bad IS that job to do???

Dave In Frisco and I did ours at a wrench party at Flyboy's and I was home in time for lunch.  It is not that hard of a job to do if you have the special tools.

I'm pretty sure there's expertise in the DFW crowd.  I'd like to put in Progressive front springs.

Sounds like wrench party job to me.

Not too bad a job.

As for 100,000 miles...if you're checking the splines/pinion cup and bearings at tire changes...no need to do more than keep an eye on them.

I recommend:

1) Fill 'er up.
2) Ride 'er hard.

:D

(http://lifeisaroad.com/images/rideitortakeit.jpg)

Sounds like a it's time for the 2nd annual fork wrench party. 

BnB Tom didn't want to ride in the spit last April and missed the party.  He still needs to / wants to / hasn't done it yet. 

There's 3 right there. 


And if none of the Allen head cap screw pinch bolts refuse to cooperate...   ;)   Serk, you might start feeding them a drop or two of penetrating oil whenever you think about it in advance of the party.  Sunday 2 May 2010?

If there's to be a wrenching on Sunday, May 2nd, I'll be there with bells on... Come to think of it, if there's such an event anytime that I physically CAN be there, I'll be there...

What parts do I need to go ahead and order?

From this page:

http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=148096&category=MOTORCYCLES&make=HONDA&year=1998&fveh=3466 (http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=148096&category=MOTORCYCLES&make=HONDA&year=1998&fveh=3466)

2 of these - 51490-MW0-003 ?

Dave - On that fiche, which ones are the allen head bolts you're referring to? I'll see if I can get 'em to budge now and start working on 'em if they won't...

Fork oil - Anything particular to look for in that?

Thanks again!


Oh, and Daniel - I dunno what, but something ain't quite right in the rear end... Hard to explain, or even precisely put my finger on, but just something feels... sloppy... lately... Dunno how else to explain it... Has me concerned one of those bits that leaves you on the side of the road is about to give out, but I don't know enough to even know what to look for...

If you're just changing the seals don't need to disassemble the innards of the forks, see chets posting in tech section or I have a copy if you need it.  The change I did and don't tell the spousal unit I don't think she knows I did this but you can use a large storage tub under the forks and no oil on the floor to clean up.

Chuck

If it's a fork'in party, I'm in as I have the progressive springs, just haven't had a chance to mess with 'em.  Also need to bleed the brakes and replace the fluids.  Would it be a good idea to go ahead and replace the seals at 59K or should I just wait for them to blow out?

RainMaker

Offering to host at my place again. In the process of cleaning out down here. All the repo Harleys should have gone to auction by then. The weather should not be too bad and I can grill or we can ride somewhere east for some chow. I need to replace the intake o rings and the exhaust mani gaskets, replace the choke cable which seems to be mostly stuck at this point,  as well as would like to sync the carbs.

Serk, anytime you want to wrench and not mess up your garage floor, you are welcome here. I am kind of like you. I have been leary of taking a serious road ride since I don't know what was done when if ever in my case. I am always looking to learn how to work on my girl.

Dag has a good write-up here: http://www.valkyrienorway.com/forksprings.html (http://www.valkyrienorway.com/forksprings.html)

Wanderer has been into forks several times recently.  Maybe he'll chime in. 

Serk, the bolts I referred to are #10 on the Steering Stem fiche and #15 on the Handlebar @ Top Bridge fiche.  One of Chuck's was seized up tighter than dammit. 

Dave - Cool, just went out to the garage and checked, all 6 of those bolts (2 on the bottom, 1 on the top on each side) were easy enough to break loose...

I'm guessing we can skip a lot of steps in Dag's instructions, since I don't wanna replace the springs (Already put Progressive's in there, or rather, paid to have them put in, several years back), just need to replace the seals and the oil... What parts should I order just for that? Everything Dag ordered, or just a subset of that? (Sorry for such stupid questions, I've always had a bit of a mental block related to wrenching. I can usually grunt my way through what needs to be done, but it can get ugly if I try to do too much solo...)

Ghillie - Appreciate it. Unfortunately, I have no one but myself to blame for any of the maintenance of lack thereof on my bike... This is how many miles were on the clock when I bought it...  :-[ :-[ :-[

(http://www.serk.net/pic_archives/oldpics/DCP03133.JPG)

Still is!  One of these days I'll get some oil and the heat gun out and try to get it out again...

With the miles you have on (and your petite self) I'd also replace the wearable parts...as in the bushings.

BUSH, GUIDE  51414-MT7-003
BUSH, SLIDER 51415-MCH-003

2 of each of those...




Time to take it apart and look then. Bearings, ujoint, pinion cup, swing arm bearings...all can be checked out without replacing. It's a solid bit of work though when you include the ujoint.

You ever replace your rubber wheel dampaners?

I concur, at 85K my bushings were completely worn out. 

I'll hafta tackle that one with assistance too... It all looked okay to me when I had the rear off a few weeks ago, but I just don't know what I'm looking for...

Can you tell ANYTHING from this pic?

(http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_111/tn/IMG_4851.med.JPG)

Here's a link to the full resolution version - http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_111/IMG_4851.JPG (http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_111/IMG_4851.JPG)

Thanks again for the help, and ya'll's patience!

It's hard to tell through all the pookie, but do I see some wear on the teeth at 11-12 o'clock on the hi rez? 

Hmmm...hard to tell from the pic due to the grease...but that could be some wear there.

Gotta pic of the male (star on the wheel?)

Here is what you are looking for...

(http://lifeisaroad.com/images/tech/wornsplines.gif)

If you can get some candle wax in the tensioner crack and heat it up and into the treads, that works better than any penetrating oil! Especially effective on brake caliper bleed screws! Vanilla scent works best. ~Jeff

Ahhhhh, okay... Thanks for the pic Daniel, makes more sense now... I seem to have taken pics of everything in sight that day, EXCEPT for the gears on the wheel side...

I'm on vacation this week though, so I just might go pull the rear wheel again and have a look see at what I can see now that I've got a little better idea what I'm looking for...

Thanks again!

Daniel,
I'm confused....should they glow red.....or is glowing red a problem..... :2funny:

They're red hot because they don't have any grease on 'em!

And Vermithrax knows about no grease on splines.  I remember.

Wanderer, you worry me when you start talking about hot candle wax and penetration oil. ;D

Okay... Took the rear tire off, and here's what I found...

The 5 pronged bit that goes into the wheel I THINK is okay. There is some wear on it, but the teeth are mostly intact:

(http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_153/tn/IMG_7894.med.JPG)

High-Res version - http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_153/IMG_7894.JPG (http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_153/IMG_7894.JPG)

(http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_153/tn/IMG_7898.med.JPG)

High-Res version - http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_153/IMG_7898.JPG (http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_153/IMG_7898.JPG)

However... The teeth on the bit that stays on the bike and meshes up with the bit that goes with the wheel... Not so much... The teeth on it appear to be about 1/2 the size as the teeth on the first part...

(http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_153/tn/IMG_7920.med.JPG)

High-Res version - http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_153/IMG_7920.JPG (http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_153/IMG_7920.JPG)

(http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_153/tn/IMG_7899.med.JPG)

High-Res version - http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_153/IMG_7899.JPG (http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_153/IMG_7899.JPG)

So, I'm guessing at the very least I need to replace the gear (Is that the infamous "splines" people are always talking about?) on the part that stays on the bike. That was as far as I'm comfortable going in disassembling things, but if those gears are that chewed up (If I'm reading that right) is it pretty safe to assume the others prolly need replacing too? How ugly is it to keep going on the dis-assembly from here to verify, or should they all be replaced as a set anyway?

Once again... My great gratitude for ya'll's assistance and patience!

The splines in the rear end are somewhat difficult to replace (and expensive).

The star on the wheel is not, but they should normally be replaced as a set as sticking a new one with an old one will VERY rapidly wear the new one down to match the old.

But yep...your rear-drive looks all used up.

Might pay to pick up a used one from Pinwall or ebay or such...they can generally be had for under $200 (parts to fix the rear pumpkin will be much more than that). Make sure they include the star for the wheel and pics that show neither are worn (or will exchange a bad one).

Went through Pinwall this morning (Kinda depressing seeing all those parted out Valks, but c'est la vie) and the only final drive I found was this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-Valkyrie-GL1500-FINAL-DRIVE-SHAFT-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5190922bc8QQitemZ350317849544QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-Valkyrie-GL1500-FINAL-DRIVE-SHAFT-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5190922bc8QQitemZ350317849544QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)

Which, doesn't look a WHOLE lot better than mine, and has a "BOLT BROKE OFF IN IT"

Is 41310-MZ0-000 (Gear Set, Final) and a 42630-MT8-305 (Flange Set) the parts I'm after?

Thanks again...

Those are them!

-dm

...and the ugly reality of the financial adviser rears it's head...

So... Do I get any kinda warning right before the rear drive gives up the ghost for good and I'm stuck on the side of the road, or have I already had my warning?

Also, I know it needs to be fixed, but how critical is the front fork seal leaking? Is that a "Park it NOW!" thing, or does it just mean things will be a lil' awkward 'till I get it taken care of?

Hate to totally park the Valk 'till we can get the fundage for parts, but don't wanna hafta be calling someone to tow me in either... (I'm starting to better understand people who have 2, 3 or more Valks now... I'm SO glad I've at least got the spousal unit's ST1300 at times like this, although I can't ride it too long, it destroys my back.)

I have had a leaking fork seal for 2 years and many thousands of miles. Looks messy, but I keep it off critical components. I plan to change the seals this year. :-X

Serk, those gears look brand-spankin' new compared to what mine looked like before I changed them out.  You may not want to plan any cross country trips but I'd keep riding her until you find your parts.

Fork seal leaking is no big deal. There is a LOT of oil in that fork...and even if it was nearly dry the only thing that would happen is your suspension would get bouncy and it might wear the bushings (which you're going to replace anyway). I think all the parts together for both forks should be around $60 or so.

As far as the rear end...that's a good question. I expect IF you assemble it correctly and with lube, it should last quite a bit longer. Did you inspect the pinion cup? That's the one more likely to leave somebody standing.

Googling trying to find out what the "Pinion Cup" was, found this post of yours (Daniel's):


(Seriously... Google on "Valkyrie pinion cup" and that post is the 2nd hit!)

I've searched the Tech board, Googled on it, and looked through the parts fiche sites... What exactly is the pinion cup, and what do I look for to check for wear, and I'll go tear the rear end down again...

I'd never heard about loosening the 4 bolts holding the pumpkin in, then torquing the axle down... Guess I'm back out to the garage to redo that bit today...

Once again... Thanks!

Serk  here it is. http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=148613&category=MOTORCYCLES&make=HONDA&year=2000&fveh=3474 (http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=148613&category=MOTORCYCLES&make=HONDA&year=2000&fveh=3474)  Number 13 is the pinioun cup

Groovy, appreciate it Mr. Bubbles...

So, pull the wheel, undo the 4 bolts that hold the pumpkin on, pull it off, and look for that part in all the parts that will come out, basically?

Sort of...pull the 4-nuts, grab the pumpkin and pull it out. The driveshaft will come with it.

The driveshaft mates to the pumpkin at the pinion cup (they should always be changed as a set).

Put a towel/such down (so you don't scuff/crack your pumpkin), pick the thing up by the driveshaft and hold it a 1/2" above the towel and tap the cup on the side with a hammer. Should pop apart. If it looks rusty/dry shoot in the seal with some wd-40 or something and it should come apart.

That joint is not really splines...it has some flex...and is subject to wear. It's lubed by the rear end and tends to clog up with crud, preventing the lube from doing it's job. It really should be cleaned, inspected, and lightly lubed and reinstalled at every tire change or so.

And if worn...replace it. This is the one that tends to strand riders.

To reinstall, stick the driveshaft back in the cup, make sure the seal is all the way in the cup, prop the swing arm ABOVE horizontal (this is key), stick the shaft in the swing arm, get the 4 studs started in the holes, and wiggle the hell out of it. It will go right into the ujoint. (If the pumpkin goes all the way in, the shaft is in the ujoint...it can't go beside/around it).

...so is it a bad thing if, as you pull the pumpkin, a large visible cloud of rust dust shoots out of the drive shaft enclosure?

Thanks for the prodding, I don't think the pinion cup had much left in it before leaving me on the side of the road... The inner part of the gears are MAYBE the thickness of a thick piece of paper...

(http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_153/tn/IMG_7926.med.JPG)

(The outer facing part of the teeth look thick, but just behind the outer face they fade out to almost nothing.)

(http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_153/tn/IMG_7929.med.JPG)

The driveshaft, besides being very rusty, doesn't look to be in much better shape:

(http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_154/tn/IMG_7944.med.JPG)

(http://www.serk.net/akpics-7-8/images_154/tn/IMG_7943.med.JPG)

Investigating replacement options now... I've got a lead on some parts local I'm gonna check out...

As annoying as this is, I'd MUCH rather have the bike apart in the confines of my garage and find out about it NOW then somewhere out on the road!

YIKES!!!
Good catch.

+1!

Congrats!  I had a $200 tow bill from Decatur to Allen because of a pinion cup failure.  Isn't there a weep hole for oil to get into the pinion for lube?  Is yours plugged?

Yep...That's the spot!

Shaft and cup together run around 80 new if I recall.

But..since you're rear pumpkin is worn too...if you can find the entire thing (shaft/drive) in good shape they typically go for under 200.

I'm on my way to pick up a supposedly good shape pumpkin with all relevant parts, shaft, and matching star for $300... Prolly coulda done a little better if I shopped around, but with the Valk in parts in the garage, well... That has a certain higher price on it right there... ;)

Plugged? More like the Sahara Desert sand dunes of pinion cup dust! Been plugged forEVER! Worst I have ever seen. Count yourself very fortunate to be doing elective surgery rather than sitting on the side of the road, Brian. ~Jeff

Yup, very lucky indeed... Glad I listened to the lil' voice that started nagging me watching Dave doing his impromptu maintenance at Hot Glue's that kept saying "Time to check things out, that could be YOU! And you wouldn't be so lucky to have it fail at a large Valkyrie rider gathering either!"

Much thanks to Wanderer for finding the parts, and much thanks for Dave for driving to Kansas and bringing the parts back to Oklahoma for me! Can't believe I forgot the star at your place, guess we'll be hooking up Friday so I can get the last part and try to get this finished off...

Gonna go out to the garage and start cleaning up the new pumpkin and getting it ready... I think I'm gonna go through a few paper towels de-greasing it, and also cleaning out the innards of the shaft housing on my bike too... Fun times, fun times...

Clean the pinion cup and shaft end...the end has an indentation that will hold crud...poke a small wire tie in the holes in the bottom of the cup (two of them, opposite each other, at the edge of the nut)...it won't go all the way through but make sure they are cleaned out.

When assembling...a light coat of grease (not paste) on the pinion joint...it's just assembly lube...the rear end oil gets up in there to lube it while running. Stuff the shaft in the pinion cup...make sure the seal goes as far down as it can. Remember, swing arm ABOVE horizontal to shove that puppy in. Line up the 4 bolts and wiggle the crap out of it.

Change the rear end lube.

Check that joint/clear the crud out of it every 10-20,000 miles...it collects any crud from the rear end (spins it out like a centrifical filter). If you don't maintain it, it clogs up and then does what yours did.

1000 mile test ride recommended :D

Once again... Thank you, thank you, a thousand times, thank you, to all of ya'll!

Valk's back together. Little annoying, but not as bad as I feared it would be, everything's lubed, moly'ed, torque'd, etc (And I paid attention to the order of tightening things back down this time too!)

Did a brief test ride, so far so good... Gonna head back out for a little longer now... It might just be the placebo effect, but I swear that even just pushing the bike around in neutral, its' MUCH smoother, easier rolling now then it's been lately...

Now to start putting the parts together for the fork oil change, but at least the BIG UGLY one is done now!!!

I ...ur... snagged your pinion cup pics for future posts about the subject if that's okay with you (or maybe even a shop-talk article if I get around to it)

Glad you got-er-done. The pinion cup of yours was soon to leave you standing...

Daniel - Not a problem at all, in fact, I was gonna see if someone wanted to try to get some better pictures of it for just that purpose... (The pictures I took were not taken under exactly the best conditions...)

30ish mile test ride done... I love the spousal unit's ST1300, but it's SO nice to have my rolling La-Z-Boy back!!!

Get a few miles on that old pumpkin gear lube and change it out while it is good and warm! Good use of synthetic, imo. Quiets things down enough to notice back yonder.

Thanks much Patron for letting go of your backup Valk parts. Now, who is going to be the "holder of the spares"? I have a couple of pretty good guesses. ~Jeff

Well, ok Mr. Serk, you have convinced me to check mine and possibly replace the u-joint while I have mine apart in a few weeks to go DS.  Might as well replace the joint while I have it apart.  I am replacing the wheel bearings, dampeners, and u-joint at this point.  I will look the pinion cup over pretty good before putting it back together.

Man, thanks to B.A.D. for the reality check on the rear end stuff... 
Did that come out right..???


Hay  8)
Jimmyt

Man Darkside fury going to be one big ball of flame in Houston  :uglystupid2: :2funny: :2funny: