Getting my 2000 standard back on the road ..cont.

[Valkyrie0002]

Hello,

Bought my 2000 Valk new in 2001.  I was a sport bike rider, last being a 94 CBR1000F so I wanted a larger bike that fit the Valks stats.  My wife and I are stout individuals and I also wanted a bike that would be better suited for us.  Love the Valk but could really only ride for pleasure as I needed to drive a car or truck for work so the Valk did not get many miles per year.  

In 2010 or 2011 I forgot to treat the gas before winter lay-up and sure enough come the next summer it ran like crap and it has sat since.  This is the first time I did not treat the gas in one of my bikes.  I tried the B12 and Techtron a few years ago but the slow idle jets were plugged good.  I kept putting off the carb removal primarily because of the complexity.  I saw D-Ray's videos a couple years back and watched them again.  I've also been doing some reading on this forum.

A few days ago I said its time.  Either DIY or pay to have it done.  Tues night I tried to start it up one last time and the left carb bank was leaking like a sieve.  Just what I need, another issue to deal with.  I pulled the tank and started the removal process.  What a pain.  The left side bowls had some crud in the very bottom by the drain but other wise not bad.  Float valves seemed free with slight green color on the left side floats.  Right side looked good.  I did not remove the slow idle adjusters.  

Soaked the jets overnight but 3 of the slows were still plugged and I had to run a wire into them to break the crud.  The 2nd evening I started to put them back together and got the carbs pretty well situated over the engine and started to reinstall.

Last night I got the intake runners install completed, vacuum and drain hoses, throttle cables connected and decided before I put the airbox back on I better put some fuel in and check for leaks.  Wish I did this on the bench.  The #3 carb is leaking badly.  Don't see any other leaks and not sure exactly where its leaking from.  Now I'm going to pull the #3 intake to make room to get a better view and pour some more fuel in and try to ID the source of the leak.  Hope the fuel from last night swelled the seals if lucky or maybe just the bowl seal needs cleaned.

[The emperor has no clothes]

It sounds like you need new fuel rail o-rings. Sometimes they swell back up .

[longrider]

I agree with meathead.  Leave it overnight and check again.  I've had to wait a couple of days before the orings seal again.  No issues once they swell back up

[Valkyrie0002]

I found the problem. You have to tighten the bowl screws or its gonna leak. Duh.  What a pain to tighten them on the bike. Added more fuel, no leaks.

Installed the tank, added 2 gallons of 89 octane and a healthy dose of B12 (4 degree wheel)  and it started right up but need to remember to turn the fuel valve ON.  Another Duh.   After a few minutes I was able to turn the choke off and it idled fine.  I let it run at just under 1000 rpm for about 20 minutes.  Tomorrow Ill check air pressure and do oil change.  Then I need to flush brake and clutch fluids. 

My Dunlop Elites are 12 years old.  I dont see any dry rot but I'm concerned with their age.  Appears the front brake is sticking so need to address that.  I'll just ride close to home for now to check it out.

[Valkyrie0002]

No fuel leaks overnight.  Got it buttoned up, fresh oil, aired up the tires and took a test ride.  Been 5 years since I rode her last but all seems fine.  Forgot how hard she pulls.   Didn't take long to get back in the groove.  Should have pulled the carbs years ago.

[Jess from VA]

Maybe a carb synch (now)?

[Valkyrie0002]

Maybe a carb synch (now)?

Not needed based on what D-Ray says.  Carbs are all set the same.  And this is a very low miles bike.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Maybe a carb synch (now)?

Not needed based on what D-Ray says.  Carbs are all set the same.  And this is a very low miles bike.

Maybe, maybe not. If you have someone near you with a Digisync it’s worth the effort.

[Cracker Jack]

Maybe a carb synch (now)?

Not needed based on what D-Ray says.  Carbs are all set the same.  And this is a very low miles bike.

Maybe, maybe not. If you have someone near you with a Digisync it’s worth the effort.

If you have smooth idle with even firing of cylinders, you don't need it.

[Forge]

Maybe a carb synch (now)?

Not needed based on what D-Ray says.  Carbs are all set the same.  And this is a very low miles bike.

Maybe, maybe not. If you have someone near you with a Digisync it’s worth the effort.

If you have smooth idle with even firing of cylinders, you don't need it.

Not to hijack this thread, but are out bikes supposed to have a smooth idle? Mine has always had a lope to it which is more pronounced after the desmog and carb rebuild. Digi sync is within 2 to 3 digits on all cylinders.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Maybe a carb synch (now)?

Not needed based on what D-Ray says.  Carbs are all set the same.  And this is a very low miles bike.

Maybe, maybe not. If you have someone near you with a Digisync it’s worth the effort.

If you have smooth idle with even firing of cylinders, you don't need it.

Not to hijack this thread, but are out bikes supposed to have a smooth idle? Mine has always had a lope to it which is more pronounced after the desmog and carb rebuild. Digi sync is within 2 to 3 digits on all cylinders.

Both my Standard and I/S have a very steady idle.

[Valkyrie0002]

I appreciate the input.  Idle is pretty smooth but I did not remove and clean the idle adjusters so I might expect there is some crud on those points.  3 of the slow jets were still plugged after an overnight soak so they might still have some crud in them that needs cleaned out.   I'll run B12 in a couple tanks to make sure its cleaned out. 

[Ramie]

Has the bike been desmogged yet?

[Valkyrie0002]

Has the bike been desmogged yet?

No, and I don't plan to unless it becomes necessary.

[Valkyrie0002]

At about 15 miles the idle and take off from a complete stop smoothed out noticeably.   By about 30 miles it was running a lot smoother than Saturday.  I still need to clean the calipers and change the hydraulic fluids.

[Valkyrie0002]

Update.. 

Ran B12 thru the first few gallons then went to techron.  Put about 180 miles on since the carb cleaning.  There is a noticeable stumble in the idle and even up to 4k rpm in first gear you can hear and feel the sputtering.  Also have the issue where idle does not always fall back down quickly when throttle is let off; its not the linkage.  Looks like I need to track down a vac leak or just desmog it.

After reading up on the common issues with our bikes I checked the headers and found the bolts were all loose so snugged them up.

Pulled the front calipers off last weekend to clean and flush and install new seals.  It was hard to get 2 of the pistons out the final bit and there was some light pitting in the outer edges of all the bores.  There was crud in the recesses for the seals.  Lot easier to flush every other year than to go thru this routine.

Never store tubs of chlorine tabs in your garage anywhere near your bike especially if you have a cover over it.  I ended up with pitting on my lower forks and rear exhaust covers that year.

[Willow]

Maybe a carb synch (now)?

Not needed based on what D-Ray says.  Carbs are all set the same.  And this is a very low miles bike.

Maybe, maybe not. If you have someone near you with a Digisync it’s worth the effort.

If you have smooth idle with even firing of cylinders, you don't need it.

Don't bet on it.  You could defend that position based upon the strength of the word, need, but the bike would likely benefit from a good syncing (Digisync).

[Cracker Jack]

Maybe a carb synch (now)?

Not needed based on what D-Ray says.  Carbs are all set the same.  And this is a very low miles bike.

Maybe, maybe not. If you have someone near you with a Digisync it’s worth the effort.

If you have smooth idle with even firing of cylinders, you don't need it.

Don't bet on it.  You could defend that position based upon the strength of the word, need, but the bike would likely benefit from a good syncing (Digisync).

Other than the smooth idle and even firing of cylinders, what is this other likely benefit(s) that you might expect to experience?

I understand and agree that the digisync is a nice device. Would you have me and others believe that a proper sync with a digisync is superior to a proper sync with other devices such as gages or manometers?

[Willow]

Maybe a carb synch (now)?

Not needed based on what D-Ray says.  Carbs are all set the same.  And this is a very low miles bike.

Maybe, maybe not. If you have someone near you with a Digisync it’s worth the effort.

If you have smooth idle with even firing of cylinders, you don't need it.

Don't bet on it.  You could defend that position based upon the strength of the word, need, but the bike would likely benefit from a good syncing (Digisync).

Other than the smooth idle and even firing of cylinders, what is this other likely benefit(s) that you might expect to experience?

I understand and agree that the digisync is a nice device. Would you have me and others believe that a proper sync with a digisync is superior to a proper sync with other devices such as gages or manometers?

Better fuel mileage and probably smoother performance result from properly synced carbs.

Yes.  The Digisync provides more precise synchronization and averaged so it doesn't jump around so.  I suppose if someone is very, very good with manometers one may come close but for the average guy, no contest.

Only experience will convince a cynic and sometimes not even that.   

[Chrisj CMA]

Not sure what a Digisync costs, but I'm pretty sure its a lot more than $99 for a TwinMax.  This thing does a real nice job once one understands how it works and uses it properly.

[Willow]

Not sure what a Digisync costs, but I'm pretty sure its a lot more than $99 for a TwinMax.  This thing does a real nice job once one understands how it works and uses it properly.

I couldn't compare as I haven't used a TwinMax.  A Digisync costs (did cost) $175 and worked great even for someone who didn't really understand how it works.

[Hook#3287]

I've had a TwinMax and used it for years.   As Jeff said, once you understand it's ways, it works great.

Once I got the DigiSync, the TwinMax took a second seat.

Just easier to use and as Willow stated, seems more precise w/o the bouncing needles.

Thanks BonS

[Valkyrie0002]

I have access to digital manometers we use for blower door and duct blaster testing.  I had not thought of using one but it would work. 

[Cracker Jack]

Maybe a carb synch (now)?

Not needed based on what D-Ray says.  Carbs are all set the same.  And this is a very low miles bike.

Maybe, maybe not. If you have someone near you with a Digisync it’s worth the effort.

If you have smooth idle with even firing of cylinders, you don't need it.

Don't bet on it.  You could defend that position based upon the strength of the word, need, but the bike would likely benefit from a good syncing (Digisync).

Other than the smooth idle and even firing of cylinders, what is this other likely benefit(s) that you might expect to experience?

I understand and agree that the digisync is a nice device. Would you have me and others believe that a proper sync with a digisync is superior to a proper sync with other devices such as gages or manometers?

Better fuel mileage and probably smoother performance result from properly synced carbs.

Yes.  The Digisync provides more precise synchronization and averaged so it doesn't jump around so.  I suppose if someone is very, very good with manometers one may come close but for the average guy, no contest.

Only experience will convince a cynic and sometimes not even that.   

Willow, not having an understanding of the matter being discussed, maybe you should have resisted the urge to weigh in on this topic.

" Better fuel mileage and probably smoother performance result from properly synced carbs"


There is no basis in fact that either will occur from syncing carbs unless they were WAY out of sync to begin with. I've read on this board of other baseless claims such as increased horsepower as a result of a digisync treatment. Many cases of suggestions that a sync with a digisync might fix all sorts of maladies.

"Yes.  The Digisync provides more precise synchronization and averaged so it doesn't jump around so.  I suppose if someone is very, very good with manometers one may come close but for the average guy, no contest."


There is nothing more precise than a liquid manometer. They are so precise that they must be highly damped to be able to be read. I don't know about the inner workings of the digisync but the user friendliness of the unit is a result of electronic damping for the same reason that you would a liquid manometer.

"Only experience will convince a cynic and sometimes not even that."   


I agree completely with that statement but I suspect that we would disagree on who the cynic is in this case. I feel certain that my education and experience would far exceed what you could bring to the table. I can also assure that my experience and knowledge does not come from reading posts on this or any other forum.


My original post on this thread was an effort to try to dispell one of several myths that live on this board, apparently unsucessfully. See the "cynic" statement above. If anyone is still reading this thread, you'll have to make up your own mind who you want to believe.

[Valkyrie0002]

I have some experience wrenching on bikes and cars.  Based on the current symptoms I'd say a carb sync will not change things.  The sputter happens at all RPM ranges and it often won't drop back to idle quickly upon decel with clutch disengaged so I'm thinking I have a couple different issues.

The bike ran great until I forget to add stabilizer to the fuel one winter and then let it sit for 8 months.  I'll never make that mistake again.  The carbs were actually pretty clean inside except for left side slow jets which were completely plugged and a little junk in those bowls.

Throttle cables and linkages are not sticking therefore I'll keep checking for an intake vacuum leak.  All my hoses were nice and supple, no dry rot or cracking that I saw.

For the sputtering I'll run additive in a couple more tanks.  I didn't do a complete carb tear down because I did not have the wrench to pull the slow speed mixture screws but those should not affect performance at 3k+ RPMs.

I'll check the plug wires at the coils to make sure I didn't pull one loose while working on the carbs.  Plugs have less than 5k miles on them.

[Chrisj CMA]

The bike ran great until I forget to add stabilizer to the fuel one winter and then let it sit for 8 months.  I'll never make that mistake again.  The carbs were actually pretty clean inside except for left side slow jets which were completely plugged and a little junk in those bowls.

Reading this got me thinking.  When I cleaned a friends carbs out.  I had never done it before, so I called Attic Rat.  He gave me fantastic advise.

He made sure I understood there are a couple passage ways that can get clogged, looked like vent holes to me.  All six were clogged and it took patience and a syringe (without the needle) to force cleaner in them little holes.  If some of them are still plugged it could be the source of your troubles.

[Valkyrie0002]

The bike ran great until I forget to add stabilizer to the fuel one winter and then let it sit for 8 months.  I'll never make that mistake again.  The carbs were actually pretty clean inside except for left side slow jets which were completely plugged and a little junk in those bowls.

Reading this got me thinking.  When I cleaned a friends carbs out.  I had never done it before, so I called Attic Rat.  He gave me fantastic advise.

He made sure I understood there are a couple passage ways that can get clogged, looked like vent holes to me.  All six were clogged and it took patience and a syringe (without the needle) to force cleaner in them little holes.  If some of them are still plugged it could be the source of your troubles.

Thanks.  I hope that's not the case because I don't want to pull the carbs again. 

[Valkyrie0002]

I should have checked for this sooner but a few days ago I decided to check the plugs and found #2 had a thin black film on it and all others were tan.  All 6 plugs fire so it's not an ignition issue.  While idling I found that #2 and #4 header were cold and #6 was just warm where as the right side were all very hot.  Looks like my small passages are clogged.  I ordered a slow idle circuit tool so I can adjust/ remove that needle valve and maybe moving it will open things up.  I'll shot some cleaner thru there too.  If not I'll try cleaning out the passages with some mono-filament line.  I'll pull the carbs as a last resort.

I'm amazed at how well the engine was running on 3.5 cylinders at idle.  Looks like 5 were running fine at higher rpm.

[9Ball]

That’s almost exactly what I went through...2009 layup and 2010 trouble with carbs after forgetting to stabilize the fuel.  I bought my ‘99 new off the showroom floor.  Just started about two weeks ago with complete carb rebuild and going through everything.  Hopefully before the weekend is through it will be back running.  I’m replacing all hoses, tubing, plugs, o-rings etc.  it took over 20 actual hours of cleaning and rebuilding the carbs.  I went with all new jets and pilots, along with the complete separation of the carb bank using the redeyetech kit to re-assemble.  I removed the air cut valves and tested them too...first time ever doing this.  The fuel rail o-rings were in bad shape and definitely needed replacing.  The carb bowl gaskets were cracked and hard so they couldn’t be re-used without leaking.

Good luck with yours...I feel your pain.

Hello,

Bought my 2000 Valk new in 2001.  I was a sport bike rider, last being a 94 CBR1000F so I wanted a larger bike that fit the Valks stats.  My wife and I are stout individuals and I also wanted a bike that would be better suited for us.  Love the Valk but could really only ride for pleasure as I needed to drive a car or truck for work so the Valk did not get many miles per year.  

In 2010 or 2011 I forgot to treat the gas before winter lay-up and sure enough come the next summer it ran like crap and it has sat since.  This is the first time I did not treat the gas in one of my bikes.  I tried the B12 and Techtron a few years ago but the slow idle jets were plugged good.  I kept putting off the carb removal primarily because of the complexity.  I saw D-Ray's videos a couple years back and watched them again.  I've also been doing some reading on this forum.

A few days ago I said its time.  Either DIY or pay to have it done.  Tues night I tried to start it up one last time and the left carb bank was leaking like a sieve.  Just what I need, another issue to deal with.  I pulled the tank and started the removal process.  What a pain.  The left side bowls had some crud in the very bottom by the drain but other wise not bad.  Float valves seemed free with slight green color on the left side floats.  Right side looked good.  I did not remove the slow idle adjusters.  

Soaked the jets overnight but 3 of the slows were still plugged and I had to run a wire into them to break the crud.  The 2nd evening I started to put them back together and got the carbs pretty well situated over the engine and started to reinstall.

Last night I got the intake runners install completed, vacuum and drain hoses, throttle cables connected and decided before I put the airbox back on I better put some fuel in and check for leaks.  Wish I did this on the bench.  The #3 carb is leaking badly.  Don't see any other leaks and not sure exactly where its leaking from.  Now I'm going to pull the #3 intake to make room to get a better view and pour some more fuel in and try to ID the source of the leak.  Hope the fuel from last night swelled the seals if lucky or maybe just the bowl seal needs cleaned.

[Valkyrie0002]

Update: 
Monday night I turned the pilots all the way in and back out 2.5 turns a few times on carbs 2,4,6 then ran the engine at idle and held it just over 2k rpm till hot, shut down and yesterday did the same.  Cyl #6 seems a little better but 2, 4 are still cold at idle.  I'm done playing with it, carbs are coming back out and I'll open up the left bank of carbs and hit that circuit and small passages with cleaner.

Wish I would have done more reading on this forum before working on the carbs because I never gave that circuit or small passages a thought.  The bowls and floats were not that dirty but it did take mechanical cleaning to open the slow jets.  We learn the most from our mistakes.

[9Ball]

Might want to install new slow and main jets while you’re at it...might save a third takedown...good luck.

[Valkyrie0002]

Jets are all clear, I made sure of that before I reinstalled them.

[Valker]

Might want to install new slow and main jets while you’re at it...might save a third takedown...good luck.

'Where do most folks get new ones?