Horrible Traction on Wet Roads

[jabster]

Hello again.

One thing I've noticed with the Valk is horrible performance on wet roads. Nearly every time I apply the rear brake when it's wet I begin to fishtail. Scary at 60 mph. Even starting off from a full stop, applying only a little bit of gas, the rear tire has slid sideways on me. I'm at the point where I barely even apply the rear brake, if at all, on dry roads.

I don't remember anything with the original Dunlops, but I know this happens with the ME880s. I do have the larger rear tire.

It's almost time to buy new tires.

Has anyone else experienced traction issues like this?

I've used nothing but Dunlops and Metzler. Is there another tire brand I should look at? Or is what I'm experiencing just inherent to the bike, etc.?

Thanks,
John

[Valkorado]

Definitely not inherent to the bike.  Sounds like the problem is most noticeable when using your rear brake, I'd look at your rear caliper to make sure it's floating properly and check to see that the pistons are functioning properly.  You might also check your rear brake adjustment, could just be set a bit too touchy.

As far as a good rear tire, the Austone Taxi Tire has never slipped or fishtailed on me and it's good in the rain.

[Skinhead]

How old are the tires?  What pressure are you running?

[gordonv]

Sounds like issue related to the tire tread. My E3 Dunlop did that.

Most of the time in the rain, I've been on nice hwys, gental curves. Now running Bridgstone, and have a Austin Taxi Tire for my next rear change.

[Jess from VA]

There is not a better sticking tire than the ME 880, bar none on Valks.  (The Cobras may be close)

If the tire is shot or nearly shot (and old), any tire will slide (esp when hot), and you can't blame the tire.  

A shot (or nearly shot) tire that gets heated up hot, on hot roads, will slip and slide all over the place.  Before I went to car tires in back, I had shot (and hot) rear bike tires slip bad from acceleration more than breaking. I just nailed the gas, and the rear tried to pass the front (sideways).  Exciting, but not good.

Get new tires.  (Shot or near shot is bad, and so is old.)

Also clean your rear brake, caliper and pistons and pedal linkage if they are grabbing too much.

Avoid Dunlops.  (Esp E3s, which last longer and slip the most).  If you live where there are no turns or hills and you never drag pegs, and all your riding is straight and level, go ahead and get E3s if you want (but I wouldn't).

Your best bet with tires is Metzler 880 (and maybe 888) and Avon Cobra.  This is quality, not necessarily longevity.

And of course, the best tires bar none in back are car tires.  And this Austone Taxi tire is a 65 (taller than stock 60), and supposedly has almost none of the handling peculiarities of car tires.

https://www.universaltire.com/175r16-austone-taxi-black.html



Here's the 205 60s I run.  (It does not slip, and goes 37K miles, for about $130)

[N8171S]

Go dark side.  Cures all the traction issues.

[Bighead]

And use the front brakes 75% to 25% rear.

[The emperor has no clothes]

And use the front brakes 75% to 25% rear.

WTF ? Bighead. We’ve agreed twice now in a month. 

[turtle254]

There is not a better sticking tire than the ME 880, bar none on Valks.  (The Cobras may be close)

If the tire is shot or nearly shot (and old), any tire will slide (esp when hot), and you can't blame the tire.  

A shot (or nearly shot) tire that gets heated up hot, on hot roads, will slip and slide all over the place.  Before I went to car tires in back, I had shot (and hot) rear bike tires slip bad from acceleration more than breaking. I just nailed the gas, and the rear tried to pass the front (sideways).  Exciting, but not good.

Get new tires.  (Shot or near shot is bad, and so is old.)

Also clean your rear brake, caliper and pistons and pedal linkage if they are grabbing too much.

Avoid Dunlops.  (Esp E3s, which last longer and slip the most).  If you live where there are no turns or hills and you never drag pegs, and all your riding is straight and level, go ahead and get E3s if you want (but I wouldn't).

Your best bet with tires is Metzler 880 (and maybe 888) and Avon Cobra.  This is quality, not necessarily longevity.

And of course, the best tires bar none in back are car tires.  And this Austone Taxi tire is a 65 (taller than stock 60), and supposedly has almost none of the handling peculiarities of car tires.

https://www.universaltire.com/175r16-austone-taxi-black.html



Here's the 205 60s I run.  (It does not slip, and goes 37K miles, for about $130)

Whos tire is the 205/60 16

[davit]

This spring I had trouble with a fairly new Shinko Journey rear that had a hard glazing on the sides that wasn't there in the fall.  The front tire, another Shinko Journey of the same vintage (one year and 3,000 miles) was fine, I assume something must've gotten on it.  Anyway, I raised the bike on the lift put it in gear and held a block of 80 grit sandpaper to the tread until the glazing was gone.  It's been good since.  

Running the bike while on the lift is extremely dangerous, don't do it.

[Jess from VA]

Who's tire is the 205/60 16

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Assurance+TripleTred+All-Season&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=06VR6ATTAS&tab=Specs

This was maybe the most popular CT back when folks started going darkside in earnest.  Since then, a lot of folks think they suck (maybe not rounded enough).  I like them fine.  There are certainly rounder edges to be had. 

I mainly went to a CT for longevity.  I would not run a CT that only got 15-20K.   

[Bighead]

And use the front brakes 75% to 25% rear.

WTF ? Bighead. We’ve agreed twice now in a month. 

Well Rob we agree on many things just not on political stuff. 

[old2soon]

When I purchased Phatt Ghurl she came with dunflop e 3s. All the years I've been riding Those were the ONLY M/C specific tires that ever scared me in the rain. Been D/S some years now. Currently on an Austone Taxi tire on the rear and a Shinko 777 W/W in 140-80-17. Had them in the rain a number of times. While I are cautious in the rain these I've mentioned ant the Metz 880 I had NEVER scared me in wet condition like the dunflops did. RIDE SAFE.

[..]

Beating the dead horse is starting to wear me out.

https://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-braking-tips/

[Chrisj CMA]

Hello again.

One thing I've noticed with the Valk is horrible performance on wet roads. Nearly every time I apply the rear brake when it's wet I begin to fishtail. Scary at 60 mph. Even starting off from a full stop, applying only a little bit of gas, the rear tire has slid sideways on me. I'm at the point where I barely even apply the rear brake, if at all, on dry roads.

I don't remember anything with the original Dunlops, but I know this happens with the ME880s. I do have the larger rear tire.

It's almost time to buy new tires.

Has anyone else experienced traction issues like this?

I've used nothing but Dunlops and Metzler. Is there another tire brand I should look at? Or is what I'm experiencing just inherent to the bike, etc.?

Thanks,
John

Sounds like you are too heavy on the rear brake. Contrary to lots of Harley riders opinions, you won't crash if you use the front brakes. You just might if you don't rely more on the fronts than the rear. 

Don't be a back braker

[jabster]

Huh. I'm not getting email notifications for some reason on this thread. And yes, it's on.

Anyway, thanks for the responses. I guess I'll be sticking with the ME880s then when it's time to replace (likely this winter). And just be extra extra careful when it's wet out.

@Britman, I appreciate the braking link, but please note that I'm not specifically asking about braking.

Since new it's always been touchy with the rear brake. When wet I'm probably 99% fronts. Even dry I don't use much rear. I rebuilt the calpiers a few years ago and I haven't noticed a difference on those few times I've ridden wet.

What really made me ask this I guess was the slipping when slowly accelerating. That's the one that concerned me the most. The rear tire immediately went sideways when starting from a stop light. Thought I was going down that time. This was several years ago and hasn't happened since. But I've been careful as hell since then, not that I wasn't that time--major downpour, and honestly have not ridden in the rain in quite some time. (Too old for that crap.) The tires were fairly new when this happened.

Anyway, I guess my main point was...I haven't looked at tires for the Valk in quite some time, and was mostly I guess looking for any comments to see if there was anything new and better than the ME880s, which I overall love.

And I just can't bring myself to put a car tire on a motorcycle.

@Valkorado: good idea on the adjustment. Hadn't thought about that. If I'm applying more than I think I am that's bad.

@Skinhead: 33 psi on both.

Last note....maybe Horrible was a poor word choice. :-/

Thanks,
John

[..]

33psi front and rear 

Way too little for the rear and too little for the front.

Rear should be at least 42.

[cookiedough]

33psi front and rear 

Way too little for the rear and too little for the front.

Rear should be at least 42.

yep, for sure 40psi rear on up to 45 or so and front should be 38-40psi IMO

you running way too low of tire pressure.

the one time this spring I got caught in torrential unexpected downpour, my rear shinko se890 journey was fine doing 50 mph top speed I could go was downpouring big time, but felt fine no issues braking or going thru 2-3 inch puddles on the road doing 50 mph.  ONLY issue was when from a stop, I had to gently give it gas for would spin the rear tire from a stop if on wet pavement sideways and that was a weird feeling having the back end sliding around in 1st gear from a stop sign.

[Valkorado]

33psi front and rear 

Way too little for the rear and too little for the front.

Rear should be at least 42.

yep, for sure 40psi rear on up to 45 or so and front should be 38-40psi IMO

you running way too low of tire pressure.

the one time this spring I got caught in torrential unexpected downpour, my rear shinko se890 journey was fine doing 50 mph top speed I could go was downpouring big time, but felt fine no issues braking or going thru 2-3 inch puddles on the road doing 50 mph.  ONLY issue was when from a stop, I had to gently give it gas for would spin the rear tire from a stop if on wet pavement sideways and that was a weird feeling having the back end sliding around in 1st gear from a stop sign.

+1 to both.  Low pressure slop.

[jabster]

Huh.

I wonder where I got that 33 psi number from then. Been running that for years.

[Kunkies]

33 psi is the recommended tire pressure in the Valk' owners manual and based upon the original stock Dunflop tires, too low.

I've had Dunflop E3's, they lasted 12K+, yet at the cost of traction.  I'll never mount them again.  I also recommend the Avon Cobra's or ME880's or ME888's (new)

[cookiedough]

33 psi is the recommended tire pressure in the Valk' owners manual and based upon the original stock Dunflop tires, too low.

I've had Dunflop E3's, they lasted 12K+, yet at the cost of traction.  I'll never mount them again.  I also recommend the Avon Cobra's or ME880's or ME888's (new)

now if running a rear car tire, then 33 psi is usually fine.... but not a cycle tire.  40 psi and above for rear cycle tire up to even 46 psi I have ran, but usually 44