Most terrifying thing I've done in a while

[Serk]

Is she 6 feet yet?   (probably just the perspective next to the munchkin)

Last official measurement by a doctor has her at 6'2", but that was several months ago...

Won't be long and Brian 2.0 will be slinging a leg over one of your Valks.

He's already chomping at the bit, of the triplets he's definitely my motorcycle aficionado... The other two kinda like riding, but he loves it and begs to go on rides as often as possible...

We had another outing today with two very big milestones. She had her first taste of high speed interstate travel (The road type, not the Valkyrie type of interstate ). We rode about 25 miles to a much nicer Tex-Mex restaurant, mostly on freeways doing 80+ (Speed limit is 70). She was quite stable and comfortable on the freeway.

After exiting the freeway, turning from the service road into the parking lot she had her second major milestone of the day  - laid the Valkyrie down. She's fine, the Valk is fine, little excitement as I quickly parked and ran back to help her right the bike. Luckily we were at our destination so she had time to walk off the adrenaline and then have lunch before throwing a leg over again.



I intentionally laid her scooter down in the grass and had her lift it before setting her out on it, will do the same with a Valkyrie once she's closer to solo'ing it without me around.

After lunch and a CostCo run (Same parking lot) we headed home, one more stop at another grocery store, making the tight turn into the parking space, and..... layover #2.



Once again it was a slow/no speed turn that did her in.

She was frustrated and tired so we just came home after that, but our next ride will be to a local large parking lot and just working on slow speed maneuvering for a while.

[cookiedough]

may I suggest a lighter and smaller bike even if over 6 feet, she is not as strong as most male drivers her age?  near 800lbs. is still 800lbs., she would be better suited to a 500-750cc cycle... at 500-550lbs. tops. 

I am looking at, if I find the right good deal,  at a used 2014 or 2015 honda ctx700.  It is chain drive being the only drawback but the parallel twin engine weight is way, way down low weighs tad bit over 500lbs. but feels like 350lb. scooter is so flickable is almost unbelievable.  Compared to our 550lbs. 1997 honda magna 750cc, it is more nimble and feels much less heavier, but for sure is not as fast as the magna.  To me, both bikes feel light as a feather, but compared to any VAlk, is a flyweight.

I just do not think an 800lb. bike is good for any new rider, especially a female weighing under 150lbs.  or male for that matter under 150lbs. 

[Jess from VA]

Jess from VA on Yesterday at 04:19:31 PM
Is she 6 feet yet?   (probably just the perspective next to the munchkin)

Last official measurement by a doctor has her at 6'2", but that was several months ago...

That's funny.  I've been 5' 9" for pretty close to 600 months, with no change at all.  

On the tipovers, I'm thinking she's not picking the right speeds to roll in the slow spots or turns, or she's grabbing a tad much brake in slow turns (esp front), or needs a bit of work on slow speed clutch friction zone to get just a hair of push when it's needed.

After the freeway run, it's easy to lose your fine slow speed control, after extended fast.

Once these fat girls start to go over, it's no longer long legs, it's Schwarzenegger upper body that's
needed.  

Like you said, a bit of MSF-like slow maneuvers in tight space practice (on the Valk) will be the ticket.

I bet she didn't enjoy being in this picture. (If it was me, there'd be a finger in there somewhere )

[Serk]

may I suggest a lighter and smaller bike even if over 6 feet, she is not as strong as most male drivers her age?  near 800lbs. is still 800lbs., she would be better suited to a 500-750cc cycle... at 500-550lbs. tops. 

Yup, if we were buying her a bike would definitely go that route, still might but we'll see. The Valkyrie has the HUGE advantage of already being in my garage and paid for though... And with 3 cars and 3 motorcycles right now we're pretty much at capacity (I'm SO sick of getting vehicles inspected!)

But if she's not comfortable, competent and confident on the Valkyrie she won't be riding it beyond our little rides together, but we will see how she progresses.

On the tipovers, I'm thinking she's not picking the right speeds to roll in the slow spots or turns, or she's grabbing a tad much brake in slow turns (esp front), or needs a bit of work on slow speed clutch friction zone to get just a hair of push when it's needed.

A bit of MSF-like slow maneuvers in tight space practice (on the Valk) may be the ticket.

The first one turning into the parking lot we think what happened was she thought she had is in first gear but actually had it in second gear, but there's so many moving parts involved with riding these beasts it's hard to tell what actually was the culprit.

The second one I'm pretty sure was a simple case of too much brake, no motion, and over she goes.

And I agree, our next outing will be to the high school parking lot where we will both do a lot of intimate slow speed dancing with the fat ladies.

And while not thrilled, she kinda smiled at the pics I was taking. I wouldn't have taken pics but we have comm units so I already knew she was fine, and it was a parking lot so we weren't impeding traffic... Another pic as I was walking over to her, she has a very "Sooooooorrrrry!!!!!" smile...



(And I just realized this particular parking lot in the pic above is a perfect example of my earlier comment about the plethora of Mexican/Tex-Mex restaurants in the area. There are 4 of them in this parking lot alone, 3 more in the strip mall on the northern side of the road and 2 more on the other side of the road to the west..... We are truly blessed here in The Republic.

[Jess from VA]

What I'm thinking with this smile is that she has a good, caring, understanding dad, and knows he's not going to get bent out of shape on small errors in a learning curve.

I've taught a number of people to ride, including females.  If you don't have friendly patience, you need to find another hobby.  

Also, if she will continue the adventure, you might want to pull the Hwy pegs off for awhile.  They can get fubared in tipovers (and maybe hit the valve covers too).  And she shouldn't be on them for awhile yet anyway.

My very first ride to the end of the seller's driveway, I thought I had first, but I had neutral, and the hard turn into the street with no power required every bit of strength I had to hold it up from the hard sucking gravity.  And right after I told him I was an ex-instructor with many previous bikes and years' riding.  Doh!

[DirtyDan]

Glad damage was minimal

Keep on keeping on

Dan

[Willow]

I'm going to both agree and disagree with my friend from Virginia.

The transition from hiway speed to slow speed is difficult to learn but you know that.  I laid mine down early learning that slow speed turn and hard brake are not a good mix.

Upper body strength and height are not strong requirements for Valkyrie riding.  My wife, of 5'6" and typical female strength, has ridden many thousands of miles on a Valkyrie.  One must consider one's strength and other abilities when choosing how aggressively to ride the Valkyrie.

A lighter bike will certainly not deliver the proper experience for long distance hiway riding.

You're on the right path with the slow speed practice.  Talk to her about the misleading feelings transitioning from the hiway to slower speeds.      

[cookiedough]

maybe it is though floppy bunny type like ears protuding from her helmet causing her to tip?   

Hopefully lesson learned and she does not do it again anytime soon.  If it was me,  I would lay off riding the Valkyrie and stick more so this summer with the honda helix gaining more experience.  I remember when I test rode in November 2017 the 1998 blue/cream honda valk tourer.  My kid had about 5000 miles of riding experience age 16, soon 17,  that first year and he wanted so badly to TEST RIDE the guys cycle coming with me on his 97 magna.  I was VERY, VERY leery of letting him test ride it in the country not use to an extra 250lbs. of weight, but he grinned from ear to ear, especially with those cobra pipes on it.  He wanted to ride it in town traffic and I said NO pull over into the gas station coming into town so I can drive it back even though he probably would've been fine, but one never knows.

My wife sat on my 2 Valks and said NO way too heavy and big for her and she is normal size not able to touch the ground flat footed.

As far as owning 3 of each,  try 4 cars and 5 cycles, not a lovely time moving vehicles around all the time.  I guess that is a good problem to have though right???    

[cookiedough]

another question:  does the 98 std/tourer have a rear car tire on it?  slow speed handling is affected am sure if so because of it, especially for a 110lb. person vs. someone over 200lbs. 

I doubt many can dispute a rear car tire at slow speeds is tad bit more difficult to maneuver at low speeds than a normal rear cycle tire.  ohboy,  flame suit on....

[Jess from VA]

I'm going to both agree and disagree with my friend from Virginia.

The transition from hiway speed to slow speed is difficult to learn but you know that.  I laid mine down early learning that slow speed turn and hard brake are not a good mix.

Upper body strength and height are not strong requirements for Valkyrie riding. My wife, of 5'6" and typical female strength, has ridden many thousands of miles on a Valkyrie.  One must consider one's strength and other abilities when choosing how aggressively to ride the Valkyrie.

A lighter bike will certainly not deliver the proper experience for long distance hiway riding.

You're on the right path with the slow speed practice.  Talk to her about the misleading feelings transitioning from the hiway to slower speeds.      

Well I agree completely Carl.  

My point was actually that leg length (height) and strength were good to have for a Valkyrie falling over with you on it; not for the riding part, but the falling part.  And I'm talking about slow speeds (like parking lots).  At high speeds, the rule remains... the bigger they are, the harder they fall.

Once you've been riding for 20 or 40 years, you get a pretty good handle on it.  But I will say, if you get on the expressway all day long, tank to tank, even with a good experience level, your skill at slow speed maneuvers may not be quite as good as normal when you finally get off onto surface roads at the end of the day.  And the truth is, that can also be true operating 4-wheelers as well.  I'm not sure if it's a vision or perception thing or just a brain thing, but you know what I mean.

---
On another matter, once you learn car tires, I think they offer an advantage (over bike tires) to slow speed maneuvers in providing a much larger foot print (which is mostly flat) in back (increasing stability).  Yes, there is more pushing the bars around (but that's part of learning car tires).

I've actually thought about this in the Inzane slow speed riding contests.  I've never been there to watch it in any detail, but I always thought a car tire guy should have the advantage (though there are no turns in that particular competition).  

[Skinhead]

Well, you guys can over analyze/arm chair quarterback this until you're blue in the face.  I've seen grown, big burly men drop their Valkyries and smaller bikes during low speed maneuvers and stops.  Upper body strength helps, but once she gets to a certain point, it's best to just let it lay over, rather than hurt yourself trying to hold it up.  As Gig and Binkie can attest, it happened to me trying to do a U-turn on a country road.  The day before, Binkie laid his Goldwing down in my mother's yard and broke his mirror off.

I think it is a a combination of experience, seat time, confidence, and perhaps overthinking what she is doing.  It has to come naturally, and this will only come with time and experience.

I think Serk is going about this the right way, and Kali is doing great.  She will only improve her skills with seat time and experience/practice.  And this can be on any bike, the basic skills are the same, fine tuning them to the bike at hand is where things sometimes get dicey.  I remember my dad telling me when I started riding, to never lose respect for the bike, and what it can do to you.

Keep your confidence up Kallie, try not to ding up Dad's bike (or yourself).  I look forward to riding with you some day.

[cookiedough]

I did figure 8's with my VAlk I/S in front of my house in the street 5-6 times being very, very  slow speed maneuvers to try to show my kid how it is done.  He attempted it with his 97 magna with NO feet going down but failed.  Low speed handling only comes from experience and knowing the bike since each bike is different for sure on how they handle low speeds.  I did the figure eights on his smaller magna and had no issues even my scooter was easy peasy..  He never attempted figure 8's though on the Valk, am sure would be harder.

Also,  each person is different as well. I think for a short fat dude middle age, my balance is pretty darn good.  Not so for some people.  Each person can vary a lot.  Practice may not make perfect, but surely helps. 

[Serk]

Well it was fun while it lasted, might come back but I'm not gonna push it at this point.

We got geared up today to head to the nearest big parking lot to work on low speed maneuvers.

She made it to the first turn in our alley and came to a complete stop, said she couldn't make the turn, totally froze up and wouldn't move an inch.

She'd convinced herself she wasn't capable of doing it. I contemplated forcing the issue but decided it wasn't worth freaking her out, calmly put the bikes away gave her a hug and will just leave it for a while.

[Skinhead]

Well it was fun while it lasted, might come back but I'm not gonna push it at this point.

We got geared up today to head to the nearest big parking lot to work on low speed maneuvers.

She made it to the first turn in our alley and came to a complete stop, said she couldn't make the turn, totally froze up and wouldn't move an inch.

She'd convinced herself she wasn't capable of doing it. I contemplated forcing the issue but decided it wasn't worth freaking her out, calmly put the bikes away gave her a hug and will just leave it for a while.

Good call.  Confidence is a huge part of it and it has to come naturally.  Get her out in the parking lot or with cones when she's ready.  Or maybe repeat MC safety course, or advance rider course, on the Valk?

[Beardo]

She’ll be fine. Most of us have had a bad experience that have made us a little jittery too.

On the slow speed maneuvers and corners...is she maybe using the front brake too much (or at all)?  My sister laid her bike down a few times by using the front brake at parking lot speeds, it upsets the bike so much and she just didn’t have the strength to keep it up.

I’m sure you’ve given her all the tips she needs, but a reminder to lay off the front brake going slow might help?

[cookiedough]

Well it was fun while it lasted, might come back but I'm not gonna push it at this point.

We got geared up today to head to the nearest big parking lot to work on low speed maneuvers.

She made it to the first turn in our alley and came to a complete stop, said she couldn't make the turn, totally froze up and wouldn't move an inch.

She'd convinced herself she wasn't capable of doing it. I contemplated forcing the issue but decided it wasn't worth freaking her out, calmly put the bikes away gave her a hug and will just leave it for a while.

good move dad not forcing it.  I still remember 2 years ago my kid then age 16 NEVER been on a cycle and got his temps/learners permit good for 6 months.  I bought that 1997 magna and he knew NOTHING about shifting gears with the clutch.  took him around the block him riding _itch on back several times super slow explaining the clutch and foot shifter.  Came back,  he killed the cycle like 6 times in a row pretty much letting out the clutch too fast I think.  I could tell he was getting nervous and fidgety much like your daughter so said lets call it a day and put the bike up.  NOT worth pushing the issue he was not ready to keep killing and killing the cycle from a dead stop more and more.  2nd time out he was much better now it comes pretty good for him.  I think we all have killed a cycle from a dead stop now and again, it happens.  A hydraulic clutch like our Valks have being a cable operated clutch on the magna is not as smooth/good either I think, but works.  

My kid being age 16 wanted a used honda /kawi ninja 250 or 300cc crotch rocket type and after 1 test ride myself said NO WAY, too small and too slow will outgrow it ASAP and way too pricey for what you get for sure most still over 2 grand not worth it.  Now, the VAlk is way, way too big IMO as well for kids under age 18.  She will be happier in the long run on a mid-sized cruiser I think.

May I suggest her riding around with you and parking lot maneuvers on the honda helix more and more this summer, will not hurt one bit and the helix will keep up with the Valk if you drive the VAlk sensibly.  The honda helix though is an odd positioning driving cycle more barcalounger couch style than upright Valk style.  

If like my kids,  there will be worse things to come when operating either a cycle or car whether it be a deer (or other critter) avoidance maneuver or mailbox issue or not in your area, but slippery icy/snowy roads....
Also a suggestion, but do not let her drive at NIGHT MUCH when under age 19 or so still at home.  BAD things happen AT NIGHT more so than days in car or cycle..... been there, done that...

[Jess from VA]

Well it was fun while it lasted, might come back but I'm not gonna push it at this point.

We got geared up today to head to the nearest big parking lot to work on low speed maneuvers.

She made it to the first turn in our alley and came to a complete stop, said she couldn't make the turn, totally froze up and wouldn't move an inch.

She'd convinced herself she wasn't capable of doing it. I contemplated forcing the issue but decided it wasn't worth freaking her out, calmly put the bikes away gave her a hug and will just leave it for a while.

I'm sure you know, the place to practice tight maneuvers is in wide open places with no real obstacles, just imaginary (or very small to hit) ones.  Like the lines in a parking lot, or a collection of old tennis shoes or paper plates.  I'd have my student turn long wide slow circles in the parking lot, then narrow them up slowly, with lots of repetition to smaller radius (no brakes, just nice slow controlled velocity and lean).  

Once comfortable, then add in full stops and starts, with clutch friction work, in making the circles. Practice gentle braking in slow turns to a clutch-in full stop, left foot down (right on the brake pedal), then depart in the same slow turn.  And go both directions (everyone turns left better than right, except weirdos).    So start left, and go right later. 

Later you graduate to figure 8's getting used to leaning right then up and over to left, and back again.  Then throw in stops and starts again. 

If at any time there becomes a problem or balking, then loosen up and go back to an easier maneuver with repetitions again.  Building skill and confidence.

But I had days when the student wasn't up to it, and no pressure, we'll try again later.

Some video training might be useful.  Good riding is both physical, and mental.  

[scooperhsd]

Serk, I think you're doing great with her so far. Since YOU have lived with her for 16 years, YOU more than anybody should know what she is capable of. You're getting lots of good advice (most of which you probably know already - maybe just not verbalized).

I think the idea of her graduating from the Helix to a 600-750 class cruiser, or even better - a standard - would payoff as well. Being a smaller bike (but still big enough to highway cruise), should be more manageable if she does happen to spill it. The smaller bike would make it easier to  get the slow speed stuff down, then after a suitable time, go Valk cruising together again. You should also get her out on what passes for twisties in TX, ideally slow as well as moderate / fast.


Jess - I'm one of those wierdos - I'm either slightly better right or about equal . Certainly agree about the statement that good riding is mental as well as physical. And Kali has had more rider training than I had at her age - it simply wasn't available then for me.

[Serk]

Kids are so resilient.....

I couldn't find her in the house, finally found her laying in the back yard depressed, so we had a little talk, a little confidence booster, and came up with an idea, she'd ride the Helix to the high school parking lot and I'd ride the Valkyrie Standard, we'd do some low speed practice in that configuration, then see what happened...

So we rode around with me on the Valk and her on the Helix practicing extremely slow speed maneuvers, starts, stops, starting with the handlebar full lock left and right, stopping while in a turn, etc. etc.

After a while she asked for me to do the same but with her as a passenger on the Valk.

We did that a bit, but that made her more nervous than anything else, she asked if she could go ahead and try the maneuvers on the Valk herself.

(Woot! I'm thinking, it worked!)



Had her working on those same maneuvers but with the Valkyrie. She's definitely getting more confident and competent. Not "there" yet, but making more good progress, especially considering where we were just a few hours ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dou5FvgrIA

[Jess from VA]

When teaching, always go for confidence over skill. 

Each time there's a glitch/hickup, back up to something easy (like the Helix), build up the confidence again, then work toward harder again.

[Hook#3287]

Another pic as I was walking over to her, she has a very "Sooooooorrrrry!!!!!" smile...

It may be a "sorry" smile, but it sure is pretty.

She's going to be fine.

She's got a great instructor, who has a vested interest in seeing her succede.

[Skinhead]

Have her do Figure 8's in six of those parking spaces, then after she's confident with that switch to 4.  Also try having here just rid in circles at full lock, one side and then the other.  Circles over and over, look where you want to go, very slow, not even leaning the bike, steering, with the bike upright. SLOW.

[JimC]

Good job Dad

Jim

[Jess from VA]

That practice in the big parking lot reminded me of an experience with my wife.

I kept taking her over a few miles from home on Ft Belvoir (Army) (both with IDs), because traffic was way less than everywhere else, lots of empty spaces to practice, and the pavements mostly well maintained.  So were using this big new lot (surrounded by tall concertina/razor wire fence) in a new building construction zone, and guys came running out and ran us off because it was going to be a secure facility.  Eventually.

Dude, it's just a construction zone now.  Get out of here or we'll call the cops.  You're the boss.

[..]

She’ll be fine. Most of us have had a bad experience that have made us a little jittery too.

On the slow speed maneuvers and corners...is she maybe using the front brake too much (or at all)?  My sister laid her bike down a few times by using the front brake at parking lot speeds, it upsets the bike so much and she just didn’t have the strength to keep it up.

I’m sure you’ve given her all the tips she needs, but a reminder to lay off the front brake going slow might help?

+1 on the front brake.

I've seen many dump at slow speeds because of it.

[Bighead]

Serk she will be fine  :cooldude:and looking at her on the valk it seems to fit her fine as she is taller than the average man I taught my wife to ride several years ago and she did great except for a dump in the driveway. She hasnt been in the pilot seat since and has no desire to do so. Kali on the other hand has already got back in the pilot seat. She has the desire and with time she will have the skill

[cookiedough]

Have her do Figure 8's in six of those parking spaces, then after she's confident with that switch to 4.  Also try having here just rid in circles at full lock, one side and then the other.  Circles over and over, look where you want to go, very slow, not even leaning the bike, steering, with the bike upright. SLOW.

not sure anytime soon she should be riding in circles at full lock left or full lock right.  That can be pretty sketchy to do on our Valks.  Even me doing pretty tight figure 8's on our wider street I rarely do full lock figure 8s, that is pretty tight cornering IMO, but know I am pretty close to full lock on every turn but seldom do.   Totally different turning radius though on the 97 magna.  I did figure 8s on that full lock every turn and wish I had more turning of the handlebars since does not have as much left to right movement as our VAlks do.    

good for her for getting back into the saddle so soon already.  That means she wants to get better and not want to ride cycles anymore loosing interest....    Is she content to ride the honda helix around town even though am sure your town is more congested traffic than mine in rural  small town WI.    I would feel more content and better peace of mind if she was on the helix more so by herself than the Valk at such a young age.  Plus, if she tips the helix doing more major damage, only out 1 grand or so...

[mrtlc]

Serk tell Kali if she keeps that up she will soon be a
DRAGON MASTER

[Serk]

I've been naughty and let her ride before she's done the "Prove you can lift it" test, mainly because where she rides there are LOTS of other people that could help.... But today..... 9/3/2019..... she rode the Valk to school for the first time...

Yes.... I was nervous as hell and tracking her the whole way there and back (Joys of modern tech)....

But... My first Valk, that I've had longer than my first born..... Parked in a high school parking lot.....

What a long..... strange trip it's been!

[Beardo]

What a great post Serk. Impossible to read that and not smile. 

[Bighead]

Looks like she did well parking it. 

[cookiedough]

I bet she is the coolest kid in high school with the biggest and baddest cycle.

My kid when in high school never rode cycle but 2-3 times to school since is ONLY 1 mile to school in same town we live on one side of town and the school is on the other side of town 1 mile away is all.  by the time he fires up the cycle and lets it warm up a few minutes,  is not worth it for 1 mile of riding.

He as well was ONLY kid in entire high school with cycle license and a cycle to ride but was only like 22 kids per entire class is all.  Entire K-12 one school system only has on average guessing 30 kids per class.

[RDKLL]

Just a thought, get her into an MSF Experienced Rider Course...she would learn some pretty cool stuff on the big bike!

[Serk]

My kid when in high school never rode cycle but 2-3 times to school since is ONLY 1 mile to school in same town we live on one side of town and the school is on the other side of town 1 mile away is all.  by the time he fires up the cycle and lets it warm up a few minutes,  is not worth it for 1 mile of riding.

He as well was ONLY kid in entire high school with cycle license and a cycle to ride but was only like 22 kids per entire class is all.  Entire K-12 one school system only has on average guessing 30 kids per class.

Yeah, definitely a very different situation for her... The Islamic community center she swims at for the school swim team every morning (It's a long story, we're thankful for it; the school district is FINALLY building their own natatorium) is 15 miles, 30 minutes away. Her high school is 8 miles, 25 minutes away.

Her high school has just under 2800 kids enrolled.

...and is just one of seven high schools in the local school district...

Just a thought, get her into an MSF Experienced Rider Course...she would learn some pretty cool stuff on the big bike!

She probably should. Come to think of it I probably should too.... She did take Valker's "Dancing with the fat lady" course both times he offered it at Inzane in Taos, and it helped her slow speed manuevering a TON.....

[Rams]

Serk,
My congratulations to you, your lovely lady and that wonderful young lady who is so full of life.  You two are doing a wonderful job parenting and educating.

I would love to teach my daughter to ride any bike but, she has no interest.   She's happy to ride as a passenger with her significant other.   He rides an HD so, I bought her some good walking shoes.      It is, what it is.   Some things you just have to accept.   In this case, she's more like her mom than her dad.  

Rams

[henry 008]

"I bet she is the coolest kid in high school with the biggest and baddest cycle."

+1 

[Daniel Meyer]

So awesome!

[f6gal]

Definitely the cool factor!!  Hopefully, the school doesn't decide to make an issue of your "colorful" stickers. 

[Serk]

Definitely the cool factor!!  Hopefully, the school doesn't decide to make an issue of your "colorful" stickers. 

I was concerned so I did an audit of the stickers, and the worst verbiage on any of them is the word "piss", so I think we're good...

[cookiedough]

Definitely the cool factor!!  Hopefully, the school doesn't decide to make an issue of your "colorful" stickers. 

I was concerned so I did an audit of the stickers, and the worst verbiage on any of them is the word "piss", so I think we're good...

I doubt anyone will mess with your stickers on the biggest baddest bike around....

but seeing as how you have 2800 kids in high school being HUGE,  there will always be one or two bad apples in the bunch causing trouble.   Your high school is more than double my town of 1200 population....  That is a lot of kids...