Died on me---What!!!????? SOLVED

[Fazer]

In the four years I've owned the Valk, this is the first time stranded.  Started as summer normal this morning-- no choke and smooths out in about 1/4 mile.  This time though, it died going out of my neighborhood.  Since I was going down hill, I bumped it in third gear and got her going again.  I applied a little bit of enrichment (choke) and got about another 100 feet when she died and would not start.  Still had lots of cranking and strong battery.  Friend came by with a tow strap and I towed it up the hill.  Along the way I tried to bump start and she fired up after a little sputtering.  It had sat for about 15 minutes.  Started up again with no problem when I parked in the garage.

Does this sound like a flooded engine?  I could smell gas.  I've not read where they are prone to flooding, but I guess it's possible with 6 carbs.  Remembering  back to my youth, when we flooded a car, you could hold the gas to the floor and it would sometimes start.  Tried with the Valk, but not happenin'.

Any thoughts on what I might try if this happens again?  Got a trip planned and don't want any surprises.

Sidebar question:  Did I break a rule by towing using the forks?  Kind of hard to steer, but did not have far to go.

[..]

Open gas cap and listen for WHOOSH of air?

[..]

Silly question

Gas turned on?

[Fazer]

Not silly.  I had filled the tank yesterday and had about 20 miles on it.  Gas was on, but I turned to reserve and back a few times.

[Tfrank59]

Yeah not much to go on there but it does seem like fuel starvation rather than flooding

[Daniel Meyer]

Not silly.  I had filled the tank yesterday and had about 20 miles on it.  Gas was on, but I turned to reserve and back a few times.

Sounds like a clogged or kinked tank vent hose...or it could also be missing the "vacuum breaker" which is a small plastic "T" about half way down.

[Chrisj CMA]

Check alternator output

[98valk]

failed oem petcock diaphragm.  rebuild with either honda or k&l kit.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I’m guessing you need a cover set.

[Chrisj CMA]

If the alternator just quit charging it will still crank when the amps get low enough to stop feeding the ignition.

[Tfrank59]

I guess if you smelled gas there's a good chance it's not fuel starvation, but as others have pointed out it's possible you have a kinked line preventing fuel from flowing down to the carbs. One thing I like to do anytime I diagnose or if somebody asks help with a diagnosis on a vehicle is ask have you done anything to it recently? For example, if you had the tank off there's a good chance then that maybe you kinked one of the lines or something, just sayin

[mark81]

Did you ever get your headlight figured out?  Led lights dont dim if the voltage is low they just dont turn on.  Your dan marc may not be getting proper voltage to stay open too. You put in a non vacuum pingle when you desmogged iirc so cover set wouldnt be the issue

[Steel cowboy]

I would do as Chrisj stated, if it starts put a volt meter on the battery and rev it up. You should be about 13.5 to 14 volts, if you don't see a change I would be looking at an alternator replacement

[98valk]

  Remembering  back to my youth, when we flooded a car, you could hold the gas to the floor and it would sometimes start.  Tried with the Valk, but not happenin'.

car only had throttle plate and intake manifold.   CV carbs have throttle plate also but vacuum slide stays shut unless the engine is running and not a manifold type whereas the other cylinders are not drawing on flood area helping to evaporate the excess fuel.

[Fazer]

Thanks for all the replies. 

It did start last night as normally and I rode it around the neighborhood as it slowly died, just like when I have to switch to reserve, so I am thinking it is fuel starvation.  I have not had the tank off in quite a while so I don't know how any of the vent lines could be at fault.  I am ordering a new cover set although I rebuilt the petcock three years ago when I desmogged and installed the Dan Marc.  I noticed when I had the right side cover off to access my auxiliary fuse panel, I could hear a clicking noise as I moved it around.  Head scratcher at the time, but now I believe is is the Dan Marc with a loose connection.  I can hear is clickety clickety when I move things around.  I think it simply went to closed and the bike died as I ran out the fuel.  It took a few minutes which makes me wonder how effective the DanMarc is in preventing hydrolock since there was still that much fuel in the lines.

Mark--I did find the problem with the LED headlight--it was a loose ground wire on my fuse panel.  Same panel I was moving around to hear the clicking of the Dan Marc. 

Greg

[Bagger John - #3785]

...I am ordering a new cover set although I rebuilt the petcock three years ago when I desmogged and installed the Dan Marc.  I noticed when I had the right side cover off to access my auxiliary fuse panel, I could hear a clicking noise as I moved it around.  Head scratcher at the time, but now I believe is is the Dan Marc with a loose connection.  I can hear is clickety clickety when I move things around.  I think it simply went to closed and the bike died as I ran out the fuel.  It took a few minutes which makes me wonder how effective the DanMarc is in preventing hydrolock since there was still that much fuel in the lines.
...

What you've done here is introduce another potential failure point into the system.

Three choices:

• Remove the Dan-Marc shut-off and rebuild the stock petcock, ensuring that the rest of the fuel delivery circuit and related lines are in proper order
• Convert the stock petcock to non-vacuum operation (optional: Install the Dan-Marc shut-off)
• Remove the stock petcock and install a Pingel unit (optional: Install the Dan-Marc shut-off)

An electrically-powered valve is only going to be as good as its supportive circuitry, and if you're not constructing the wiring and terminations properly then you run the risk of intermittents or outright malfunction as the elements degrade the wiring.

Back to this comment:

"I rebuilt the petcock three years ago"

One of my rebuilds lasted less than 2 years and 2K miles. Garbage gas, alignment of the planets, bad run of diaphragms...who knows? If I keep encountering problems I'll convert both of mine to manual petcocks with an inline electrical shutoff. 

[98valk]

my bike was a '98 left over, bought it new in '00. 15k miles the petcock diaphragm failed. I rebuilt it and installed a snubber in the vacuum line. 59k miles later still zero problems.

[Keitho]

I'm thinking like 98valk's diagnosis.
Petcock rebuild and possible time to address the vacuum hoses /system.
Desmog when at it?

[BINOVC]

Would a defective vacuum line between petcock and #6 cylinder cause fuel starvation?  The line might initially hold vacuum and begin leaking as it warms up?
(OP stated already desmogged)

[Leathel]

Thanks for all the replies. 

It did start last night as normally and I rode it around the neighborhood as it slowly died, just like when I have to switch to reserve, so I am thinking it is fuel starvation.  I have not had the tank off in quite a while so I don't know how any of the vent lines could be at fault.  I am ordering a new cover set although I rebuilt the petcock three years ago when I desmogged and installed the Dan Marc.  I noticed when I had the right side cover off to access my auxiliary fuse panel, I could hear a clicking noise as I moved it around.  Head scratcher at the time, but now I believe is is the Dan Marc with a loose connection.  I can hear is clickety clickety when I move things around.  I think it simply went to closed and the bike died as I ran out the fuel.  It took a few minutes which makes me wonder how effective the DanMarc is in preventing hydrolock since there was still that much fuel in the lines.

Mark--I did find the problem with the LED headlight--it was a loose ground wire on my fuse panel.  Same panel I was moving around to hear the clicking of the Dan Marc. 

Greg

Yup if the electrical connection is not good on the Danmac it will cause intermittent starve issue

The bike will still get bits of fuel to keep it running longer but it definitely could be your problem

 Also even with the fuel off the bike will get a fair distance before it runs out of gas....that does not mean it will hydrolock though....as running it has all the fuel in the bowl plus lines to run on, to hydrolock it has to fill the carbs to overflowing so it flows up past the jets then enough gas in the cylinder to lock.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Thanks for all the replies. 

It did start last night as normally and I rode it around the neighborhood as it slowly died, just like when I have to switch to reserve, so I am thinking it is fuel starvation.  I have not had the tank off in quite a while so I don't know how any of the vent lines could be at fault.  I am ordering a new cover set although I rebuilt the petcock three years ago when I desmogged and installed the Dan Marc.  I noticed when I had the right side cover off to access my auxiliary fuse panel, I could hear a clicking noise as I moved it around.  Head scratcher at the time, but now I believe is is the Dan Marc with a loose connection.  I can hear is clickety clickety when I move things around.  I think it simply went to closed and the bike died as I ran out the fuel.  It took a few minutes which makes me wonder how effective the DanMarc is in preventing hydrolock since there was still that much fuel in the lines.

Mark--I did find the problem with the LED headlight--it was a loose ground wire on my fuse panel.  Same panel I was moving around to hear the clicking of the Dan Marc. 

Greg

I retract my guess of a new cover set. With what you said, I think it's pretty clear it's a wiring issue with your fuse panel or the Dan Marc itself. How do you have both wired up ?

[Fazer]

Here is what I found--

Shortly after acquiring the bike I added a fuse block that ran off the accessory circuit to power all my gew gaws.  Since I wanted the DanMarc to work of the ignition I used one of the fused terminals.  While the fuse was fine, the terminal itself was faulty and would make intermittent connection, which was the clicking I heard.  The fix was simply to move the DanMarc to another terminal.  I should say the temporary fix.  The fuse block I used was a cheapy probably bought on Amazon that I will be replacing with a stronger unit.  Will search here for suggestions.  I have seen plenty of posts about which model is recommended.

Ran strong as ever after this simple fix.

I did order a new cover set that will be ready when needed.

Thanks for all the help.

Greg

[Tfrank59]

Hey that's great

[gordonv]

Thanks for the follow up. So it was an electrical power issue to the DanMarc shutting the fuel off.

[Fazer]

Gordonv--not simply shutting it off all together, but more like on/off/on/off/on/off that eventually robbed me of enough fuel getting to the carbs.  Once I corrected the electrical connection, all is good in paradise.

Just ordered the PC-8 from Easter Beaver.  Should keep me in the green consistently.

Greg