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Author Topic: Rear brake lock-up  (Read 2721 times)
Adirondack Bill
Member
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Posts: 219

Upstate New York Near Lake George


« on: August 07, 2018, 09:21:09 AM »

Speedracer's post  regarding the locking up of his rear brake after light to medium braking is  very alarming! In 40 plus years of riding, I have never had a rear brake not release after taking my foot off the pedal.  I occasionally will lock up the rear brake on purpose just to practice  safe recovery  from a slide.  I can see how this issue could occur if you did not keep your bike well maintained, but I feel if you are a member of this  site- you care about your ride and your own safety and would keep your bike up to snuff.  Does Speedracer's accident scare anyone else but me??
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ledany
Member
*****
Posts: 509

Paris, FRANCE


« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2018, 10:47:17 AM »

Not me because ABS is stock in Europe and that's a blessing on the Valk because I've often felt the ABS operating on the rear brake and I swear I have a very light foot.   angel
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Robert
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Posts: 16959


S Florida


« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2018, 07:11:22 PM »

Not me.
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
bscrive
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*****
Posts: 2539


Out with the old...in with the wooohoooo!!!!

Ottawa, Ontario


« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2018, 07:48:05 AM »

Not me either, I have ABS as well.  cooldude
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If global warming is happening...why is it so cold up here?
Valkyrie0002
Member
*****
Posts: 66

Fredericksburg, Va


« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2018, 05:27:13 AM »

I've never had a real wheel lock up other than on purpose.  My 2014 does not have an overly sensitive rear brake.  The brakes do have a different feel than on my 2000 Std but then again they are very different bikes.

MSF courses use a traction PIE to try to explain available traction and how much is used going in a straight line Vs. Turns Vs. Braking.  Turns use a lot more traction than going straight therefore there is less available traction for braking while turning.

ABS works best in a straight line, even in autos.  It does not detect loss of traction laterally, it just detects wheel speed or lack of.  When you are leaned over- side force on the tires- the ABS still sees the wheels rolling even though they are sliding out from under you.  If the wheels are rolling the ABS will not activate and even if it does it may not be enough to maintain traction in the curve.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 05:42:47 AM by Valkyrie0002 » Logged

Been riding since about 1985.  1st bike was a CB900F then 88 CBR1000 , 1990 VFR750F and 94 CBR1000F.  I bought my 2000 Std. Valkyrie new in 01.  Was an MSF Rider Coach for 12 years.  New owner of a 2014 Valk, Red, Non ABS.
Robert
Member
*****
Posts: 16959


S Florida


« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2018, 06:22:45 AM »

I've never had a real wheel lock up other than on purpose.  My 2014 does not have an overly sensitive rear brake.  The brakes do have a different feel than on my 2000 Std but then again they are very different bikes.

MSF courses use a traction PIE to try to explain available traction and how much is used going in a straight line Vs. Turns Vs. Braking.  Turns use a lot more traction than going straight therefore there is less available traction for braking while turning.

ABS works best in a straight line, even in autos.  It does not detect loss of traction laterally, it just detects wheel speed or lack of.  When you are leaned over- side force on the tires- the ABS still sees the wheels rolling even though they are sliding out from under you.  If the wheels are rolling the ABS will not activate and even if it does it may not be enough to maintain traction in the curve.

Dont know about motorcycle ABS but cars do indeed detect loss of traction laterally. ESC systems are more sophisticated and the big brother of ABS, but it does indeed have most of the same sensors and can detect lateral movement.

 ABS was replaced in 2012 and newer cars with electronic stability control (ESC) which is a computerized control system that applies brakes to individual wheels and reduces engine power to ensure that drivers maintain control of their vehicles. Introduced in the mid 1990’s, this now-mandatory system in the US as of 2012.

The six main components of an ESC system are: wheel speed sensors, a control module, a steering angle sensor, a yaw rate sensor, an accelerometer, and the hydraulic modulator. Note that the hydraulic modulator is the same one used in an ABS system, meaning that ESC adds only the yaw sensor, an accelerometer, and steering angle sensor to a standard ABS system.

To understand how this system works, imagine you are driving down the highway at 60 miles per hour. You swerve left to avoid hitting a raccoon. What happens in the short duration to follow? The yaw rate sensor determines where your car is pointing, the steering angle sensor determines where your front wheels are pointing, the accelerometer determines if your vehicle is sliding, and the wheel speed sensors monitor each wheel’s speed. If you turn your wheel very abruptly to the left, your vehicle will initially under steer. This is simply Newton’s First Law. Since the front tires do not yet have enough traction, they slide and the car continues to move forward. The control module recognizes the discrepancy between the intended path (communicated by the steering angle sensor) and the actual path (communicated via the yaw rate sensor) and sends a signal to the hydraulic unit, directing it to increase braking power to the left rear wheel. This causes the automobile to rotate left (the desired response). If necessary, the control module will also reduce engine power by sending a signal to the throttle actuator asking it to close the butterfly valve.

Note that if the car were in an over steer situation (one in which the tail of the car wanted to rotate), the control module would apply braking to the front outside wheel to keep the vehicle under control.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 06:27:38 AM by Robert » Logged

“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
Valkyrie0002
Member
*****
Posts: 66

Fredericksburg, Va


« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2018, 12:06:05 PM »

Big difference between ABS and ESC systems.
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Been riding since about 1985.  1st bike was a CB900F then 88 CBR1000 , 1990 VFR750F and 94 CBR1000F.  I bought my 2000 Std. Valkyrie new in 01.  Was an MSF Rider Coach for 12 years.  New owner of a 2014 Valk, Red, Non ABS.
SPOFF
Member
*****
Posts: 195


Derry, NH


« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2018, 05:57:44 PM »

Introduced in the mid 1990’s, this now-mandatory system in the US as of 2012.
Another reason a "cheap" car is two year's salary. I look forward to the day I can create a complete 1972 Toyota Corolla on a 3-D printer.
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