Grandpot
Member
Posts: 630
Rolling Thunder South Carolina Chapter 1
Fort Mill, South Carolina
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« on: August 10, 2018, 03:40:47 PM » |
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I have heard others say that after an oil change their shifting is better and quieter. I just never bought into that. Well, lately my shifting has been uncertain between 1st and 2nd. I really had to shift with force or it would go to neutral. Last night I did an oil change with Valvoline 10W-40 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil. I had been using Mobil1, the one without the Energy Conserving label. I was down about 1/2 quart before the oil change. Today, it is shifting like a brand new bike. Can Valvoline be that much slicker than Mobil1? I'm a pretty good mechanic, but I just can't figure how changing oil on a constant mesh, standard transmission can make such a difference.  Some of you gurus please chime in. |
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Experience is recognizing the same mistake every time you make it. |
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ridingron
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2018, 04:11:04 PM » |
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I don't know why. I do know oil breaks down with use. All my bikes have shifted better with new oil. Is it for real or a trick played on your mind?  |
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Bighead
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 04:48:33 PM » |
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My question is why was it down a half quart? In over 120k my '97 has never used any oil.
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1997 Bumble Bee
1999 Interstate (sold)
2016 Wing
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2018, 04:51:13 PM » |
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Should shift better with a full gallon regardless of brand
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Led
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2018, 05:04:14 PM » |
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Mine shifts better after a fresh oil change......but back to normal after that! They are "clunky" transmissions. Mine prefers on the "upshifts" to use as little clutch as possible......just enough to allow the gear to slip in...... Many Racers NEVER use the clutch to upshift! They just listen to the RPM's.....and then shift into the next gear! On the downshifts although, I have the clutch lever completely in.......hard on the tranny downshifting without the clutch!!!!! But synchromesh is quite forgiving on the upshift........ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRWp9rhfS_0 |
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« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 05:42:21 PM by Led »
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2018, 05:59:15 PM » |
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Mine shifts better after a fresh oil change......but back to normal after that! They are "clunky" transmissions.
But synchromesh is quite forgiving on the upshift........
We have syncromesh on a Valkyrie???? Now ARE YOU SURE about that? |
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Led
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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2018, 06:35:34 PM » |
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Beats me! But works for me......
I believe most Jap bikes from the sixties......had a tranny like this! Been there and done it......
"Constant mesh" or "Sycnchro mesh"......it is all the same.....
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« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 06:43:43 PM by Led »
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The emperor has no clothes
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2018, 06:42:37 PM » |
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Beats me! But works for me......
I believe most Jap bikes from the sixties......had a tranny like this! Been there and done it..............
I don't think any of the bikes I've owned over the 46 years have had a synchro mesh transmission. I think the reason for easier up shifts vs. downshifts is due to less ratio of torque in the rolling mass. (But I'm no engineer either) |
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Grandpot
Member
Posts: 630
Rolling Thunder South Carolina Chapter 1
Fort Mill, South Carolina
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2018, 04:40:39 AM » |
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It's interesting the shifting is better after an oil change. This isn't my imagination, the difference this time was significant. I was just curious if anyone had a specific reason why it did this. Thanks to all that responded.
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Experience is recognizing the same mistake every time you make it. |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2018, 04:52:01 AM » |
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It's interesting the shifting is better after an oil change. This isn't my imagination, the difference this time was significant. I was just curious if anyone had a specific reason why it did this. Thanks to all that responded.
Drain a half quart out and see if it goes back to shifting like before the oil change. |
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Grandpot
Member
Posts: 630
Rolling Thunder South Carolina Chapter 1
Fort Mill, South Carolina
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2018, 05:22:32 AM » |
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That's worth a try. Stay tuned, film at 11:00. |
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Experience is recognizing the same mistake every time you make it. |
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knockdolian
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2018, 06:11:07 AM » |
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My guess would be maybe it’s to do more with the clutch ? Just a thought
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Bagger John - #3785
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2018, 09:04:47 AM » |
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I think the reason for easier up shifts vs. downshifts is due to less ratio of torque in the rolling mass. (But I'm no engineer either)
It has to do with the resonant rotational frequency of the input and output shafts, plus the dog geometry. Back-cut the dogs and things will become a little more...firm. As will shifting at a non-resonant engine RPM-to-rear wheel speed point. As far as slippery things go, certain synthetic oils I've used in the Valkyries - Spectro products, for one - seem to maintain their initial lubricating properties (and accompanying good shifting behavior) a bit longer than other oils I've run. I tend to stick with those, and unless I'm planning on a non-stop circum-country trip I change my oil every 3K miles...or every time I prep for winter storage...regardless of the brand. One poster in thread expressed concerns about the engine being low on oil. I'd be investigating this if it were my bike. While such consumption rates might be normal in your old Shovelhead, it darn sure isn't in a GL-series motor. |
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pago cruiser
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 09:40:39 AM » |
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My belief is ZDDP: Link here: https://www.bellperformance.com/blog/motorcycle-oil-additives-part-2-zddpMore than a few other sites/threads have mostly agreed - but not all. The explanation that sounds rational to me is that the additive functions as a pressure enhancer for the oil. Motorcycle transmission gears literally shear the oil without the enhancers. And when it (the enhancers) eventually break down, your tranny doesn't shift as well; and by extension, I assume  it is wearing more. While the Shop Manual indicates early Valks oil change interval at 8000 miles, I can feel the difference in shifting at about 2000 miles. Using Dino oil, I change at 2500-4000, depending upon how hard I have been riding and temps. The last couple weeks back and forth to work (100 miles/day) have been a LOT of 80-85 mph (sometimes higher...  ) at 100F+. The oil is always black. New oil and filter and its back to smooth shifting again. While black oil is not necessarily bad (and at least one test a couple decades ago indicated that with higher levels of ZDDP availabler at the time, "older" oils lubricated better) I rely upon the difference in shifting as my yardstick. Also note that in the 1990s-2000 time frame, the EPA started reducing the amount of ZDDP in motor oils - it was buggering up catalytic converters. YMMV. |
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Just because you are not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you
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Pete
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 12:00:14 PM » |
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Think about this:
Transmissions and engines usually are separated, and use different lubrication systems and fluids.
Motorcycles are one of the few vehicles that share a common fluid.
Years ago a mechanical engineer explained it this way.
A gear box tends to shear the lubricant and that was why they used different fluids.
When sharing a common fluid he recommended a viscosity enhancer be added and change the oil more often because of the shear issue.
The engineer was in charge of motorcycle racing team at that time and they used the best standard motor oil and added a small amount of STP as their viscosity enhancement. DO NOT add a lot of STP as it might affect the clutch or use something else.
For years I used his formula before switching to synthetic oil.
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« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2018, 12:08:48 PM » |
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Looking back at my maintenance spread sheet I see my oil / filter changes are from 3 to 5,000 miles. Dino oil.
It all depends on the riding I've been doing.
If I know I've been mainly zip, zap, zooming on mountain country roads I'll change earlier.
If mainly lollygagging on longer rides I'll change the oil later.
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Led
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« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2018, 12:31:14 PM » |
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Yea.....I do not think that the transmission should live on the same oil as the engine........ Some bikes still have them separate to this day, with different (heavier) fluids in the tranny, but most of them do not today....... The tranny I am sure would LOVE it sum 80w gear oil, but the engine sure would not. So I have no real answer for you........... Oh yes, constant mesh and synchro mesh ARE two different animals. Most bikes today are constant mesh. I am sorry if I confused anyone. MY BAD!!  Right now, I have synthetic 5/40 Mobil 1 diesel lube in mine. It seems to shift well, as long as I don't expect it to shift like an 80cc dirt bike. HUGE engine and tranny......automobile sized stuff!! She sure does NOT like to be babied where the shift lever is concerned! All done with nothing but your big toe! |
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« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 12:39:58 PM by Led »
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Funbaldguy
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« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2018, 04:56:01 AM » |
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Have you drained the crank case hose? I had forgot to. When I did, stuff came out and that problem went away for a while.
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rockbobmel
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« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2018, 08:05:20 AM » |
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Wanna really treat yourself? Try Amsoil 10-40 “Metric” motorcycle specific. I know, it’s $13 a quart. Jess turned me on to it and now I’m a believer!! Quieter, GREATLY reduced tranny whine. Changed mine at 6K interval.
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2002 Valkyrie GL1500CD
1996 Shadow 1100 ACE
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northernvalk
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« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2018, 11:34:01 AM » |
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I had a small (125cc) bike when I first started riding in Korea....that bike would run completely different after a fresh oil change, surprised the hell out of me! more power, more response, smoother shifting...The magna seemed to shift better and start much easier with T6 vs dino oil also.
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Grandpot
Member
Posts: 630
Rolling Thunder South Carolina Chapter 1
Fort Mill, South Carolina
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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2018, 04:02:13 PM » |
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As Chris suggested, I drained 1/2 quart. Made no difference, so I put it back in. Yes, I was sure to keep it clean.
I'll have to be happy with thinking the old oil broke down and the new oil has extreme lubricity.
I'm just amazed at difference the Valvoline made.
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Experience is recognizing the same mistake every time you make it. |
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2018, 07:14:50 PM » |
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As Chris suggested, I drained 1/2 quart. Made no difference, so I put it back in. Yes, I was sure to keep it clean.
I'll have to be happy with thinking the old oil broke down and the new oil has extreme lubricity.
I'm just amazed at difference the Valvoline made.
Well, I guess it told you something, however, I was being facetious. Didn't really think you were going to drain it out. Sorry  |
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Grandpot
Member
Posts: 630
Rolling Thunder South Carolina Chapter 1
Fort Mill, South Carolina
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« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2018, 03:25:37 AM » |
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As Chris suggested, I drained 1/2 quart. Made no difference, so I put it back in. Yes, I was sure to keep it clean.
I'll have to be happy with thinking the old oil broke down and the new oil has extreme lubricity.
I'm just amazed at difference the Valvoline made.
Well, I guess it told you something, however, I was being facetious. Didn't really think you were going to drain it out. Sorry Chris, don't worry about it. When trying to trouble shoot a problem, you need to cover all the variables. It was a long shot, but didn't take long to eliminate. |
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Experience is recognizing the same mistake every time you make it. |
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sunrisor
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« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2018, 10:10:04 AM » |
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I had trouble shifting, including a VERY short friction zone. Turned out the clutch master cylinder was leaking fluid. It was leaking out past the seal by the clutch lever. I rebuilt the master cylinder, bled the system. It was like brand new.
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No matter where you go, there you are.
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Bagger John - #3785
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« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2018, 01:03:05 PM » |
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Wanna really treat yourself? Try Amsoil 10-40 “Metric” motorcycle specific. I know, it’s $13 a quart. Jess turned me on to it and now I’m a believer!! Quieter, GREATLY reduced tranny whine. Changed mine at 6K interval.
I run this in both of my Concours 14s and can get it for a bit less than that ($40-43 per gallon). My change interval varies - I keep the Connies on-line 24x365. No changing the oil come winter storage, as I do with both of my Valkyries. |
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