Heel Toe shifter design

[Toovalks]

I brought this topic up several months back. Being new to the Valk., (one Year) I had commented on the uncomfortable angle I felt  you needed to rooster your foot in order to up-shift. I also commented on the convoluted path linkage design that Mother Honda put on the Valks. Lately there has been some comments here  about the square cut gears and the need to shift with "authority"between 1st and 2nd especially.
I know that many here have the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality .
Buuuutttttt for S&G'S I went ahead and tried to do what I like to do best and ,I think, "perfected" a direct
"Harley" Type Linkage that uses some of the Valk's parts and some readily available (E-Bay) parts, and some welding and CNC.
You can also use whatever lever style you happen to like.
Anyway , it is just some Ideas that seem to work.

Let the critique begin.....

[rockbobmel]

That looks slick !!   I was going to try and do that because my VT1100 has one. There was another thread on using a goldwing one.  I  am super short and the pegs are way too close for comfort so I got MarkT's lowering kit.  I had a CBXXX shifter on and put the stock back with these.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,72200.msg704991.html#msg704991

[hubcapsc]

Nice work  ...

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

I think that's the best design for the Valkyrie kick shifter yet ! 

[Jess from VA]

Very nice work indeed.   

Being able to change the angles of both the forward and back shift levers would be a real plus. 

It looks like my 8.5W foot would actually fit fully on my Cobra board inside the pegs.

And you made no comment on how it is working for you (other than saying you've perfected a shifter).

[Avanti]

The design that you have is an excellent fix for Honda's poor design. I moved mine forward.

[sandy]

I've not been a fan of H&T shifters but this looks like a cure for just the toe shifter too. BTW: Those HD shifters have a bad rep for falling off. Be sure to use locktite on the pinch bolt.

[gordonv]

Great idea, I like it. No long support sticking out of the engine.

This is what was done on the GW GL1500.

https://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19759

[Toovalks]

Meathead, I take that as a real complement coming from a guy who so often offers such cogent advice in this Forum. Thanks to all of you guys.

Well Jess to directly answer your Question..... I don't know yet. I did all this work on my project bike and not the one I'm riding. Though I have  some extra shift levers and Valkyrie peg mounting plates, I didn't want to "bastardize" my rider , till I had the kinks worked out. The placement and the length of the shaft sleeve are both critical to avoid the various humps and bends of the exhaust and side of the transmission.
The length of the link welded to the primary shift shaft was trial and error as well.  This is what I meant by "perfected".    Nothing rubs ,ie. enough clearance. I need to tighten up the backlash in the linkage. I would also like to add a grease zerk to the shaft sleeve. The main shaft is an $8 Harley common shaft off e-bay. with two Harley shifter levers  that are also common on e-bay. The shaft is turned down to 0.5" dia. and the link is welded to the "back" end.

 The last cool thing to me is that for the cost of a used shifter linkage. you can, in a few minutes , return your bike to it's original operational condition. Of course you may have to get a used foot peg bracket,unless you kept your original and modified one off of the bay.

If anyone wants more details let me know TG.

[Avanti]

I designed mine in 3D to make sure that it would miss all other parts. You need to make sure that the two levers are kept in equilibrium so a shift up or down will not occur under rough road conditions. The transmission shiftier needs to stay centered so shifting works freely. 

[RonW]

Nice work, Toovalks! Are you able to machine/print this discontinued cover for the oil filter? I only haz Fusion. Still new to it.

[Toovalks]

Ron.... My talents do not extend to CNC... I had a local shop do the work from my drawings.

[Locomotive]

This is a TERRIFIC idea- thanks for sharing it. I really like how it both keeps the footpeg area uncluttered and resolves the long-dangly-unsupported OE shifter.

Your description up top referred to CNC as part of your recipe- which parts did you CNC, and what did you go with for the yokes of the actuator link shaft?

For the "tube" that you attached to the backside of the Valk's stock footpeg mount, do you have/ can you share the length that it extends behind the back face of the footpeg mount?

For the lever that you have attached at the transmission- to make that, did you 'start with' the stock extension arm, or did you use the shifter pedal itself? (they both use splines, but I don't happen to know if the diameter and spline count are the same)

Thanks!

[Toovalks]

It's a misnomer to say it was CNC'ed. Anyone with a good lathe and welding skills could fabricate this whole  mechanism. I'll do a drawing of the support sleeve and the link. The shaft is a Harley shifter shaft
 that has had the "fat" diameter portion turned down to  about 0.492 inches. The length of the shaft accommodates the dual splined end for whatever shift levers you want to employ. immediately behind that is a groove for a c-clip, then a nylon washer ,then the face of the footpeg bracket. Welded to the back of the FP bracket is a support tube 2.625" long. For strength the tube has a 1.0 " radius shoulder for welding to plate ,0.15" thick. Tube is 0.80" OD and 0.50"ID. a second nylon washer is then between the link and the end of the tube. The link on the transmission shaft  is made  from the same spline grooved link that came off  the shaft originally. Cut off the shaft and drill out the link. Hope this gives you some insight

[MarkT]

Nice work.  I like to see new blood & ideas & fab work supporting our dragons.

[Toovalks]

Mark... Thanks,  I am honored by everyones  comments. I would also feel honored if you,Mark ,wanted to float the Idea of offering them if anyone is interested. I'm sure with your remarkable fabrication abilities
you could either improve on the design or perhaps conclude that it is just whimsical and not really viable.
 One cool thing about  the design I think, is that you don't have to make it a heel toe shifter if you don't put the rear lever on. And... the shift pattern can be reversed if you want as well. You can also ,as I said earlier,easily change it back to stock.

[gordonv]

Mark... Thanks,  I am honored by everyones  comments. I would also feel honored if you,Mark ,wanted to float the Idea of offering them if anyone is interested. I'm sure with your remarkable fabrication abilities
you could either improve on the design or perhaps conclude that it is just whimsical and not really viable.
 One cool thing about  the design I think, is that you don't have to make it a heel toe shifter if you don't put the rear lever on. And... the shift pattern can be reversed if you want as well. You can also ,as I said earlier,easily change it back to stock.

+1

I would love to do this, the versitility that this design offers is nice. As one who really likes the heel-toe shifter, but didn't like the ones offered for the GL1500 design, I see this as a nice options.

[turtle254]

Mark... Thanks,  I am honored by everyones  comments. I would also feel honored if you,Mark ,wanted to float the Idea of offering them if anyone is interested. I'm sure with your remarkable fabrication abilities
you could either improve on the design or perhaps conclude that it is just whimsical and not really viable.
 One cool thing about  the design I think, is that you don't have to make it a heel toe shifter if you don't put the rear lever on. And... the shift pattern can be reversed if you want as well. You can also ,as I said earlier,easily change it back to stock.

+1

I would love to do this, the versitility that this design offers is nice. As one who really likes the heel-toe shifter, but didn't like the ones offered for the GL1500 design, I see this as a nice options.

I'm in for one ! Lets get a count.

[3W-lonerider]

I have a heal to toe shifter, but feel it could really be optimized, so I'd be in for 1 too.
was thinking this winter about buying a new mount and trying to do something like this. heim joints and threaded rod wouldn't be hard to fab but the actual part that would go threw the mount was puzzling me.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I’d be interested in just the toe shifter action. But I’m no t sure it would work with the peg lowering kit. And I’m not reversing that.

[MarkT]

You'd want to use Heim joints on the linkage ends, and a bearing on the transfer shaft to keep play and wear at a minumum.  Doesn't look like a hard product to bring to production, particularly if the levers are off-the-shelf standard issue and use standard spline sizes. Could be several parts could be purchased already made, and the finsih could be black powder which I can do in house w/o sub-contracting for plating, adding to time, cost, and handling.  Black looks good next to the black frame anyway.

I personally don't care for H-T shifters for my use, but there's plenty who do. I like this idea of separately adjustable levers by the user.  This would be a good way to eliminate Honda's kludgy shifter shaft design which is one Achille's heel of our bikes - causing oil leaks and premature failure of the shift mechanism.  It could even fix that problem for all, even those who don't install the heel lever.

It could be made to work with the lowering kit easily.  Just a different length shaft.  Or even a shaft threaded further on at least one end.  Then cut it to fit if end clearance is a problem when the pegs are moved fwd/down.  Assuming (w/o measurements yet) clearance to the pipes / frame isn't an issue.

[turtle254]

You'd want to use Heim joints on the linkage ends, and a bearing on the transfer shaft to keep play and wear at a minumum.  Doesn't look like a hard product to bring to production, particularly if the levers are off-the-shelf standard issue and use standard spline sizes. Could be several parts could be purchased already made, and the finsih could be black powder which I can do in house w/o sub-contracting for plating, adding to time, cost, and handling.  Black looks good next to the black frame anyway.

I personally don't care for H-T shifters for my use, but there's plenty who do. I like this idea of separately adjustable levers by the user.  This would be a good way to eliminate Honda's kludgy shifter shaft design which is one Achille's heel of our bikes - causing oil leaks and premature failure of the shift mechanism.  It could even fix that problem for all, even those who don't install the heel lever.

It could be made to work with the lowering kit easily.  Just a different length shaft.  Or even a shaft threaded further on at least one end.  Then cut it to fit if end clearance is a problem when the pegs are moved fwd/down.  Assuming (w/o measurements yet) clearance to the pipes / frame isn't an issue.

Mark … I'm in for one.

[Toovalks]

Mark, the toughest thing I had to deal with was clearance and alignment between the engine/tranny and the frame. By using the  off the second part of our shift rod(the one that is on the tranny shaft...)  there is both an offset as well as a mating spline receiver.  To get clearance I had to mount that going up instead of sticking down. That makes it a stickler to get that bolt in and tightened... but it can be done. My reason for the Harley shift levers was two fold... Because of the way the exhaust  swings back in around the peg mount and because of the position of the peg mount on the face of the backer plate... the rear lever needs to both swing up and over the peg mount and swing out sufficiently to miss the exhaust. The front lever needs to swing out as well.  My first iteration of this used the  splined shaft that I cut off the shift lever.  The only way I could get it to work was to design and fabricate  my own shifter(one) lever. I carved 3 different designs  out of wood. 3 different sizes, curves, lengths ,etc, and took them to my guy that has a waterjet. He worked up a price for me and after chroming they would have been exorbitant.
Plan #2...
Bought a standard shifter shaft for a Harley off e-bay. $8.99 the one that has dual splines on one end and single spline on opposite end. I bought  several styles of levers till I found ones that worked.( mid 90's FLHT ,FLHTC shift levers)  The OD of my shaft sleeve is o.800 which leaves little space between the exhaust and the frame.The shaft needs to be turned down to fit the sleeve ID. If the sleeve was made large enough to clear the "fat" shaft ,I didn't feel that there would be sufficient "meat" to be rigid enough to still fit in the space without rubbing the exhaust or frame. I worked to make the sleeve as long as possible for lateral support.(I plan on adding a grease zerk to the sleeve to help avoid wear.) I currently have about 0.007 to 0.008 " clearance for the shaft. On the ends of the sleeve are  0.5" ID nylon washers  pinched between the link and the c-clip. these could be thrust bearings I suppose.  Hope this helps....

[Toovalks]

By the way...My goal, after getting blown out of the water on price to fabricate my own levers, was to use as much off the shelf stuff as possible.  The clevis joints are from Harley brake levers ,as cheap as $8.00 E-bay Buy a second left footpeg mount. But a second shift shaft. A 12" piece of 5/16"-24 stainless steel threaded rod w/ 2 nuts to match. Fabricate the easy stuff, take off the old, bolt on the new.

[Locomotive]

Thanks again for pursuing this innovation and for sharing your ideas to help others of us try to run with this also. Can you please tell us approximately where the "new" front shift peg falls (relative front/back) compared to the stock shift peg, and approximately the distance in between the H &T shift pegs on the new one 'as installed'? I don't have especially big feet but find that there isn't an excess of space around the footpegs on my Valk (yet I also am not attracted to floorboards). Thanks!

[N0tac0p]

I'd be in for one.  have we a count and cost yet?

[MarkT]

I'd be in for one.  have we a count and cost yet?

Won't know the cost until I work on sourcing the parts and build a prototype & consider issues unknown including cost-saver processes and potential bugaboos which can impact build costs.  That is expected to be a project that takes a back seat in between & after current customer exhaust and other builds.  On the other hand a carefully designed and built product should be a good success even with the limited market, as a H-T shifter that has separate adjustable pedals and even can be used w/o the rear pedal, should be makable w/o Honda's kludgy shifter shaft, so eliminate the problems caused by that - will be a potential product for all 1500 valks.  So I'll give it a higher priority than I did the lift adapter and peg lower projects (which are completed and in production).  At this time I expect to find existing parts that can be adopted with the parts I make to link them together - meaning buy the adapter kit from me, and those other parts from where I indicate, which will eliminate my sourcing them and the necessary handling and markup costs, and save you $$.  Like Josh's Daymaker bracket project.  I expect to get to work on this soon, after shipping current pipe orders.

[Roidfingers]

You'd want to use Heim joints on the linkage ends, and a bearing on the transfer shaft to keep play and wear at a minumum.  Doesn't look like a hard product to bring to production, particularly if the levers are off-the-shelf standard issue and use standard spline sizes. Could be several parts could be purchased already made, and the finsih could be black powder which I can do in house w/o sub-contracting for plating, adding to time, cost, and handling.  Black looks good next to the black frame anyway.

I personally don't care for H-T shifters for my use, but there's plenty who do. I like this idea of separately adjustable levers by the user.  This would be a good way to eliminate Honda's kludgy shifter shaft design which is one Achille's heel of our bikes - causing oil leaks and premature failure of the shift mechanism.  It could even fix that problem for all, even those who don't install the heel lever.

It could be made to work with the lowering kit easily.  Just a different length shaft.  Or even a shaft threaded further on at least one end.  Then cut it to fit if end clearance is a problem when the pegs are moved fwd/down.  Assuming (w/o measurements yet) clearance to the pipes / frame isn't an issue.

I'd like one to work with larger boots. And also the forward and lower pegs. And what about those with cobra's?

[MarkT]

Don't know any of that yet.  Closeup pics of the underside of Cobra pipes including shifter and footpeg & frame would help.

[Toovalks]

Mark...I'm glad that you are taking such an interest in this design.. Let me know if I can help...and keep me in the loop. My ego needs the byline.... you can make the money. TG

[Locomotive]

Glad to hear that a MarkT version is on the horizon. I'd be capable of doing the fabrication, and I get some perverse satisfaction in doing one-off things hard way round by myself, but I've got other one-off things half-started or unstarted already stretching to the horizon...it'd be great to be able to do this one relatively bolt-n-go. Bravo to Toovalks for creating the proof-of-concept and Mark T for aiming to put it into production!

[N0tac0p]

all good.  I agree whether or not you are a fan of the heel / toe, everyone should adopt this as an improvement in shifting mechanics and removal of that ostrich neck shifter that side loads and impacts the seal.

im down for one

[baldo]

Count me in too....

[turtle254]

me also

[Toovalks]

Here are some images of the shift lever clearance
[img]http://vrcc.photostash.com/vrcc_38929/shifterclearance2.jpg://vrcc.photostash.com/vrcc_38929/shifterclearance1.jpg/img]




These show the proximity of the lever ends . This is the reason for choosing the Harley levers
and why the order of the placement and the the bends are so important. The shaft tube runs between the frame and the pipes so , I don't know if this would be a problem with after market pipes or not....not familiar with them at all. Mark T's Idea of out  sourcing everything except a couple of fabricated pieces is right-on! I imagined ,if I was going to be doing this, that I would have a few of the foot peg mounts and Valk shift shafts in stock. You guys would  order..... and after the install....send back the removed parts to be turned into new setups.....Valk Re-"cycling "..... No real riding down-time.   Hope I'm not stepping on anyones toes here!

[N0tac0p]

let's pull that trigger and make big smiles

[Locomotive]

Any updates on the ball-park time &/or ball-park price range of the MarkT version of this? No pressure, just interested. Thanks

[Toovalks]

I have considered making some of the peg bracket mounts and the shafts etc. It really is a simple design. If there is really some interest... I would need to gauge it, in order to buy the blanks off ebay  and to make  it worthwhile to  mass produce parts. Also need to know the ball park of what you guy think it is worth... My first take on it cost me $125 at my machine shop plus the parts off Ebay....about $60 to $75
My machine guy said we could bring that price way down if he was not making a one off part. I need input from you. I'm not a manufacturer. Do I need to worry about Liability, if you install these yourselves. I can get the parts made..... then I will have to become a  VRCC Vendor...what a proud moment huh??

[GARY G]

I'd be in for one.  have we a count and cost yet?

Won't know the cost until I work on sourcing the parts and build a prototype & consider issues unknown including cost-saver processes and potential bugaboos which can impact build costs.  That is expected to be a project that takes a back seat in between & after current customer exhaust and other builds.  On the other hand a carefully designed and built product should be a good success even with the limited market, as a H-T shifter that has separate adjustable pedals and even can be used w/o the rear pedal, should be makable w/o Honda's kludgy shifter shaft, so eliminate the problems caused by that - will be a potential product for all 1500 valks.  So I'll give it a higher priority than I did the lift adapter and peg lower projects (which are completed and in production).  At this time I expect to find existing parts that can be adopted with the parts I make to link them together - meaning buy the adapter kit from me, and those other parts from where I indicate, which will eliminate my sourcing them and the necessary handling and markup costs, and save you $$.  Like Josh's Daymaker bracket project.  I expect to get to work on this soon, after shipping current pipe orders.

       Mark what is going on with shifter bild

[MarkT]

I'd be in for one.  have we a count and cost yet?

Won't know the cost until I work on sourcing the parts and build a prototype & consider issues unknown including cost-saver processes and potential bugaboos which can impact build costs.  That is expected to be a project that takes a back seat in between & after current customer exhaust and other builds.  On the other hand a carefully designed and built product should be a good success even with the limited market, as a H-T shifter that has separate adjustable pedals and even can be used w/o the rear pedal, should be makable w/o Honda's kludgy shifter shaft, so eliminate the problems caused by that - will be a potential product for all 1500 valks.  So I'll give it a higher priority than I did the lift adapter and peg lower projects (which are completed and in production).  At this time I expect to find existing parts that can be adopted with the parts I make to link them together - meaning buy the adapter kit from me, and those other parts from where I indicate, which will eliminate my sourcing them and the necessary handling and markup costs, and save you $$.  Like Josh's Daymaker bracket project.  I expect to get to work on this soon, after shipping current pipe orders.

       Mark what is going on with shifter bild

Nothing.  I posted just recently after someone brought this design up again, that I determined with a careful look at it, that after the advent of the kludge fix - the Aampro (RIP) shifter anchor soln and it's clones the Jersey shifter mod and the "buddy" mod and another one - to the poor OEM shifter design, this invention - which I think is better than the anchor soln kludge -  couldn't compete with the market saturating clones, as this is considerably more expensive and more work to install.  They all solve the same problem of the poor OEM design while the anchor soln is elegant as simple, effective and cheap.  I have installed 2 Aampro mods slightly modified to work with the forward controls on 2 of my Valks, and the Jersey mod on George (red bobber) all 3 bikes pictured below.

IOW not a good business decision to pursue developing this for production - it's a deadend product idea for marketing competition reasons though the design is solid.  Shark Tank investors would be "out" on this one.