A decent aftermarket Fuel Valve?

[JimBob]

I bought my first Valkyrie, a '97 Tourer, in August 2017, fixed it up and got it running.
 
About mid-August of this year, I bought a second Valkyrie, a lightly-used '99 Interstate, that had 6,400 miles on it when I bought it.
It had been sitting for a number of years.
Of course it needed a battery and it needed the carbs cleaned.
After cleaning the carbs and getting it running (and boy does it run NICE!) after about 2 or 3 tanks of gas it developed the dreaded fuel weep at the fuel valve selector shaft.
As a diagnostic, I removed the 'On-Off-Reserve' selector extension handle to remove any side-load to the valve shaft, but the weep continued.

Well, the Honda valve is pricey, and I had HAD a go-round with the $20 Chinese copy on the '97 Tourer. When I bought it, the '97 fuel valve leaked when I put gas in it. It already had on it a $20 Chinese copy that they sell on Ebay.  I could not find the fuel valve covered in the Honda OEM Workshop Manual, and at first I did not realize that it WAS a Chinese copy, and how the Chinese copy is different from the OEM Honda valve. (Thanks to y'all for having it described here!) By the time I realized what was going on, I had already bought a new $20 Chinese copy. On the '97, I finally got decent operation from the new Chinese copy by removing the diaphragm spring, then adding an electric solenoid valve downstream.... so far, so good!

Back to the '99 Interstate. Noodling around for a valve for the '99, I found another alternative, an aftermarket valve made in Japan by ‘K&L’, their part number 18-4161. Several sellers have these on Ebay  for about $60. They may have been on Ebay a year ago, but I do not recall seeing them.
In the photograph, I noted that the 'K&L' valve has the little 'atmospheric vent/safety-drain' nipple on the bottom of the vacuum-operated section, to vent or drain the space between the two diaphragms. This is noticeably absent on the $20 Chinese version, which has only ONE diaphragm.
I did a search here for 'K&L' and a search for '18-4161', both searches came back empty.

I bought a K&L valve via Ebay for $59.80 delivered. As this valve came with NO warranty from the seller, I added an Ebay ‘Square Trade’ 1-year warranty for $7.99.

I installed it a couple of days ago, and so far, so good.

If I have any trouble with it, I'll post it.

Anyone else using the K&L fuel valve?  Chime in!

[gordonv]

Don't have, but there is a lot of discussion about rebuilding the OEM or changing over to an aftermarket pingle. I like the OEM, even tho mine isn't functioning properly right now, and I'm driving with a live hand grenade.

I mentioned those copies a while ago, but hadn't realized they where copies, not doing a side-by-side comparison.

You mentioned that the copies didn't have the weep hole. I think it was MarkT mentioned without it, it wouldn't last long. Any chance of drilling a vent hole into it?

With regards to the electric fuel shut off, when you installed it into the fuel line, did you remove a section of hose equal to the length of the valve, or just a cut and place?

I've a spare petcock and an electric fuel pump from a VT1100T, which I was going to install on my bike. Looks like this year I'll have an empty garage to move it into and work on all my projects this winter.

[Jruby38]

Its a no brains needed. Just get a Pingle manual valve and never look back or worry about fuel delivery or hydo lock again.

[JimBob]

Hi Gordie!

NO!

DO NOT even THINK of drilling a 'Weep Hole' if your  fuel valve does not already have one!
DISASTER will Follow!

I am working on an explanation of the fuel valves, but it's gotten rather long.
I HAVE to figure out how to add photos! (I think it's been posted a jillion times... I just need to dig up an explanation and try it out.)

Regarding cutting the fuel hose to length for the added-in electric solenoid fuel valve…..
Here's how I did mine.
I found a couple of electric valves on Ebay that were 12V, suitable for gasoline service, with the same ‘through-hole’ port size as the ‘usually recommended’ electric valve, and which had female 1/4-NPT inlet & outlet ports arranged in-line.

For what it’s worth, these valves are labeled:
Evolutionary Concepts Inc. p/n 654-2207
12VDC, .156” orifice, 14 watts, NBR seals, MOPD 250 PSI
www.ECIValves.com
112205

The distance between the ¼-NPT port faces is about 1-1/4 inch.
It appears that the company that made these valves has been absorbed by another company.
Last year I was able, with some digging, to find a data sheet on them, but this evening I tried again and I am not finding one.


If the valve you select -although different from the one I found- will fit in the space available and is not too heavy to be suspended by the fuel hoses, this process should work.

I installed -I think it was 3/8”- brass hose barb fittings in the electric valve inlet and outlet ports.
With the tank off the bike, I ‘eyeballed’ where I wanted to place the fuel valve (it’s kind of crowded right there!) upstream of the ‘T’ that supplies the fuel to the left and right side carburetors.

I cut a new piece of regular NAPA fabric-reinforced gasoline hose (a somewhat stiffer hose than a plain rubber non-reinforced 'vacuum' style hose, the NAPA hose can support the weight of my fuel valve) a bit longer than I needed, and slid it completely onto the hose-barb of the Honda fuel ‘T’ on one end.
I then slid the hose barb of the electric valve all the way into the other end of the hose, and checked the valve location. I then 'cut and tried' the hose length until it was the correct length to place the electric valve where I wanted it.
I temporarily laid the fuel tank in place, then ‘eyeballed’ and ‘cut and tried’ another piece of hose until one end of the hose slid completely onto the hose barb of the electric valve, and the other end slid completely onto the gas tank fuel valve outlet nipple and just touched the valve body, without the hose being stretched or compressed.

I removed the tank, installed worm-gear clamps at each end of each piece of hose, and tightened all the clamps except the clamp at the gas tank fuel valve outlet. I then installed the tank, slid the hose onto the fuel valve, and tightened the last clamp.
For the valve electrics, I just connected it to the bike’s Accessory leads, which are close by, and the power (and gasoline) turns on and off with the key switch.

I hope this helps!

[DGS65]

I had to replace my stock unit a while back.  Not knowing better at the time I ordered the cheap china copy.  The unit leaked trouble as soon as I installed it however I took it back off and took it apart and put it back together tightened all the screws and it has been fine ever since.  I don't have hope for it lasting nearly as long as the stock one did.  If I find a good deal on a replacement I will order it. 
In the meantime my riding is sidelined for a bit so I haven't been too concerned.

[indybobm]

It would be interesting to see pictures of the inside of the Chinese unit, not that I would consider using it but side by side pictures would be interesting.

[Bighead]

Its a no brains needed. Just get a Pingle manual valve and never look back or worry about fuel delivery or hydo lock again.

Dont think that a pingel is a cure all for Hydrolock.....

[indybobm]

Another thought, the missing weep hole hole on the Chinese copy is part of the Honda Cover Set. Curious as to how the selector valve portion of the Chinese petcock is made.

[Jruby38]

I can't see how a Pingle could hydro lock. When its off not a drop of fuel leaks. The little fuel in the line will no way hydro lock a 1.5  liter motor.  The quality is day and night.  Solid chrome plated brass vs cheep matchbox pot metal OEM. 

[Bighead]

I can't see how a Pingle could hydro lock. When its off not a drop of fuel leaks. The little fuel in the line will no way hydro lock a 1.5  liter motor.  The quality is day and night.  Solid chrome plated brass vs cheep matchbox pot metal OEM. 

What is left in the carbs can easily Hydrolock your engine. Unless you run it out of fuel every time you turn The petcock off.

[Jruby38]

No way.

[Leathel]

I can't see how a Pingle could hydro lock. When its off not a drop of fuel leaks. The little fuel in the line will no way hydro lock a 1.5  liter motor.  The quality is day and night.  Solid chrome plated brass vs cheep matchbox pot metal OEM. 

What is left in the carbs can easily Hydrolock your engine. Unless you run it out of fuel every time you turn The petcock off.

only if you lay the bike on its side as the fuel in the bowl has to lift out of the carbs.... it will run for a good while to them empty if running but without vacuum or bike on its side the fuel will stay in the carbs with no chance of hydroloc with the tap off.

[Bighead]

I can't see how a Pingle could hydro lock. When its off not a drop of fuel leaks. The little fuel in the line will no way hydro lock a 1.5  liter motor.  The quality is day and night.  Solid chrome plated brass vs cheep matchbox pot metal OEM. 

What is left in the carbs can easily Hydrolock your engine. Unless you run it out of fuel every time you turn The petcock off.

only if you lay the bike on its side as the fuel in the bowl has to lift out of the carbs.... it will run for a good while to them empty if running but without vacuum or bike on its side the fuel will stay in the carbs with no chance of hydroloc with the tap off.

Wrong

[Bighead]

No way.

Tell you what measure the amount of fuel in one carb.....take a spafk plug out.....put that much fuel in the cylinder......replace spark plug......hit the starter and report back witht the results.   

[Leathel]

No way.

Tell you what measure the amount of fuel in one carb.....take a spafk plug out.....put that much fuel in the cylinder......replace spark plug......hit the starter and report back witht the results.   

how is that fuel going to get out of the carb? Magically float up out of the bowl against gravity?

[Bighead]

You do realize the carbs are below the petcock and above the cylinders dont you?
 

[Leathel]

You do realize the carbs are below the petcock and above the cylinders dont you?

you do realize the fuel bowls are under the carb and have no outlet other than the jet holes in the top side of the carb bowl and the fuel  level needs to lift 10mm to get to the throat of the carb to the point it can get to the inlet manifold .... We are talking with the tap turned off so that little bit of fuel in the line needs to lift 6 carbs float level by around 10mm to get any fuel in the cylinder

Fuel tap on is a different story but we are talking tap off

[IdahoRaider]

I have used Pingle on 3 different Motorcycles over decades. They are great quality, and you can choose from vacumn or instant on.

[Bighead]

You do realize the carbs are below the petcock and above the cylinders dont you?

you do realize the fuel bowls are under the carb and have no outlet other than the jet holes in the top side of the carb bowl and the fuel  level needs to lift 10mm to get to the throat of the carb to the point it can get to the inlet manifold .... We are talking with the tap turned off so that little bit of fuel in the line needs to lift 6 carbs float level by around 10mm to get any fuel in the cylinder

Fuel tap on is a different story but we are talking tap off

Ok keep thinking that.
Not gonna get into a pissing match.

[JimBob]

I understand the Pingle valve is very high quality.
If it's off, no leaks.

Reading one of the posts on this thread, I learned that Pingle apparently makes a vacuum-operated valve. I did not know this.... I looked on their web site once, and all I recall seeing were manually-operated valves.

In my case, with a manual valve, it's 'Operator Forgetfulness Error'.
My other street bikes are all fuel-injected. No petcock. With the Valk, I get off of it and it never occurs to me to turn the (stock) fuel valve off.
I did get a hydrolock a couple of times, once on the '97 and once on the '99. Fortunately both times, the crank & cam were in such a position that the cranking just ....stopped.... it did not have enough rotational 'space' to get up to speed before the piston on the 'hydro' cylinder came up on compression, so, no damage done.
However, reading some other rider's experience has me aware that it can be a catastrophe.

On my '97 Tourer, I did the electric solenoid valve BEFORE I realized that the valve on the tank was a Chinese copy, installed by a previous owner. The electric valve 'does the job' on that bike.

By the time I acquired my '99 Interstate, I was aware of the OEM Honda valve, and the difference between it and the Chinese valve.
When, after getting the bike home, cleaning the carbs, getting it running, then 2 tanks of gas later, it developed a weep at the valve 'On-Off-Reserve ' shaft - and I do not know of a rebuild kit for that part of the valve- I thought "Ugh! A Hundred Bucks!".

So, being a cheap-ass, I noodled around on Ebay and found the K&L brand valve. It's made in Japan, not China, and it DOES have the little nipple on the bottom for the vent/weep hole. This tells me that it has the TWO diaphragms, not just ONE like the Chinese valve.
So... for $68 ($60 for the valve and $8 for a 1-year Ebay warranty) I bought it and..... after a week or so, it's doing OK.  By the time it arrived, I was ready to RIDE. So, I did not take it apart to examine the insides.... I just took it out of the box and installed it.

Regarding the hydrolock, it appears to me that if any one of the six float valves develops a 'weep' while the bike is parked, the fuel level in the bowl slowly rises until -IF there is enough gas available because the fuel valve was left on, or is leaking-  the carb overflows.

All the other carbureted bikes I have (dirt bikes and a couple little 1-lung Suzuki putt-putts), if a carb overflows, if dribbles onto the floor of the shop, and if the whole place does not go up in a huge plume of smoke and fire (has not happened yet!) I open the doors, clean up the spilled gas, and go on.... with a mental note "Turn off the Petcock next time.... DUMMY!"
 
On the Valkyrie, for some reason the design of the carbs leads to the gas, instead of dribbling onto the floor, instead it dribbles down inside the intake elbow and ends up in the cylinder.

When the bike is parked, the gas in each carb is at the proper float level. The gas in the bowls is not going anywhere (except to slowly evaporate and leave behind the gum and varnish that clogs up the jets! Ugh!) To cause a hydro-lock, enough additional gas has to leak past the bad float-needle valve to raise the gas level in the carb bowl until it overflows inside the carb, down the intake elbow,  and flows enough extra gas so as to be more than the combustion chamber volume of the cylinder. With a good petcock shutoff, 1) the gas should pretty much stay in the fuel lines, unless some air can get in the lines to displace it (the Ketchup-bottle principle) and 2) if the gas in the lines DOES flow through the leaking float needle there should not be enough gas in the hoses to flood the carb, dribble down inside the elbow, and have enough volume of gas to cause a hydrolock.

Hey... it's 1:17 AM!
I'm going to Bed!

[rocketray]

I read Meathead says just turn the pingel off a block or so from home and the carbs will then have no fuel to leak anywhere....sounds logical to me....I have the stock shut off valve and have never touched it in 16 years and no problems..I bought the Pingel years ago and it is sitting on my shelf