Darkside Question

[woefman]

Those that Darkside

is it primarily to avoid changing the rear tire as often ? 

if so is this an injustice to lubing the Splines as regular then ?

[DFragn]

Anyone running the Darkside and doesn't pull the wheel to inspect and re-lube the rear drive components at 8k - 10k miles deserves the expense ($$$$$) of replacing those components. I just hope they don't strand themselves far from home!

[Bone]

The original rear tires had a short mileage life. I figured the dealer would throw the final drive maintenance in for an additional charge with the tire change. So I use 10k miles as a service interval. After 50k every time I've removed the final drive things are well lubed when disassembled.

[Jess from VA]

You will get a series of reasons.  The primary reason for me was the short life of a MC tire on the rear; I had to get a new tire every 8-10 months.  The tire is $220 and then the labor to do it, but worse for me was the problem of getting a ride to and from the shop some distance away to leave and pick up the bike.  I do not have a garage.  And though a MC tire may get X miles, the last 1500 miles or so are not on great rubber.  I did it for longevity and convenience, not cost.  And certainly not looks.  

After you do the learning curve to ride a car tire, you discover you have tremendous grip and stability in all weather, rain, sand, leaves.  Greatly improved braking, and if you are hot on the throttle, much less chance of breaking the rear loose (especially in a slow turn where the bike can walk sideways).  

I am able to ride the car tire every bit as hard and fast in the twisties, dragging boards in the corners, as a MC tire.  The sidewall flexes and keeps the tread on the ground, until you go max lean, at which point half the tread comes off the ground, but the half remaining on the ground is still larger by far than the contact patch on a MC tire.  The car tire does not get up on the edge, it goes from full tred to half tread at max leans.  

With longevity expected to be at least 20-25K, I expect to have to drop the tire to lube the splines at 10-12K, even with no tire change.

I spent a day this Summer riding with 4 BMWs (3 R's and a K) 350 miles of WVa's best twisties from 30 to 110mph all 2-lane.  As I was the visitor, I took tail, and I kept up all day except for the tightest turns where the Valk is limited by pegs/boards.  They were pretty accomplished riders and were amazed any cruiser could keep up.  "How heavy is that thing anyway?" (weight is everything to these guys).... '900lbs or so'... "Holy sh!t."  We did not waste time sitting around a restaraunt (my pet peeve), and late in the day I showed them the car tire.  They almost fainted.

So my experience was, I did it initially to get an acceptable life on a rear tire.  But after the learning curve (which I estimate to be one to two months of weekend riding to master), I found out the drawbacks were outweighed by the advantages.  

The drawbacks are essentially two;  first you have to more actively control the bars with countersteering  (it is a little like going from power steering to manual steering in a car)  in straight and level with mild and moderate turns you might not even notice a difference, but in very slow and very twisty you must use the bars to control the tire.

Second, the car tire will wobble the rear of the bike running over stuff like manhole covers, and bigger-than-average road irregularities (mainly at slower speeds), more than a bike tire.  It can be a bit startling, but with experience you realize you are not falling down, nothing is wrong, and you just ignore it.

[Bob E.]

I agree with Jess 100%.   

For me, it is a cost issue.  A rear tire that costs over $200 but only lasts about 7500 miles ($0.027/mile) is unacceptable.  So, with some trepidation, I have tried a car tire.  It cost less than $100 to my door, and I mounted it myself.  Even if I don't get any extended life, it is still half the cost of a bike tire.  But most people are reporting at least 20,000 miles ($0.005/mile).  I now have about 2600 miles on this car tire and it's ok.  I still prefer the feel and handling of a bike tire...but not enough to spend more than 5 times as much money.

[Valkpilot]

What Jess said +1.

With the right tire, right pressure, and right shock settings, with DS you get

• tire longevity
• better grip in wet or loose surface conditions
• more stable rear braking
• better grip in curves and improved ability to accelerate hard out of curves

The lower cost of the tire is secondary to these things in my opinion.  Regardless of cost, I'd still be on a MC tire if the DS didn't perform so well.

As to "handling concerns", I've never had any.  My low speed handling is as good or better than on a MC tire and I've never noticed that the tracking of road surface imperfections was much different on DS.

Overall, the handling differences are over-emphasized.  IMO, there's no more difference between a DS tire and MC tire than there is between riding a Standard vs an Interstate, or between a Valk and another big tourer.

[fudgie]

>Tread Life
>Cost
>Traction
>Ride Feel
>Cool Tread!

I do my rear end maintance every spring regaurdless of miles since the last time. I never have done over 15,000 miles a year anyway. I have about 10,000 on my 1st CT and love it. I felt very little differance between a MT or a CT. I ran a 200 Metz and I think that help me adjust switching to a CT. Do notice truck ruts and other flat areas like sides os man holes, speed bumps, etc. Far better in rain and grind lines from tearing up asphalt. Curves are just as Jess stated. No problems with 5 mph curves in the Black Hills. Should have done it years ago.

[Daniel Meyer]

My first summer with the Valk...I shredded 5 motorcycle tires off the rear of the valk. FIVE times I had to safely get that machine slowed down and off the (very busy) freeway with a flat/blown/off the bead rear tire. Those of you that have done it know, whilst she is a fairly well behaved beastie...that can be no mean feat.

For those that keep financial score...that's better than a 1000 bucks worth of rear tires...in one summer. It's also another 500 bucks or so in towing and another $800 in misc damage (wheel and rear fender segment along about the third blowout).

The rear tires available just weren't up to the challenge...weight, power, heat, road conditions, construction debris, aggressive right twisty-grip hand...I don't know and didn't really care as those conditions weren't gonna change.

As I changed tires more often than my oil I gritted my teeth and wondered if I'd bought the right machine.

And then, suddenly, there were NO tires available. Avon was having problems (strikes?), Dunlop was having production problems as they'd finally figured out how dangerous the original elite was and discontinued it, but weren't quite there with the e2, and I don't know what happened to Metzler. 6 weeks backorder (unless I wanted to toss a couple hundred extra in "expidite" charges) was pretty common.

That's when I tried the Darkside. Never have gone back. Them new-fangled motorcicle rear tyre thingies are just plain dangerous!

I do keep a couple fronts in stock just in case there are shortages again.

[CajunRider]

Well... normally, here, I go off on how well behaved the car tire can be... but you didn't ask that, so I'll try to stay on course here. 

My primary reason for changing to a car tire is because my Valk is my travel machine.  I don't use it to run around town to run errands... I have a smaller bike for that.  I use the Valk for running distances.  Due to this, my Valk spends 50% of it's time on interstates... 40% on back roads / highways... and 10% in town.  This makes for a lot of straight line driving (I live in Louisiana... not many curvy roads to have fun on).  After a while, I noticed that every tire I had wore to a square shape.  The side tread was barely touched.  So, I'd burn 10K miles using only half the tread???  I wasn't even using the WHOLE tire!!!!

So... since my MC tires wore square... why not start square and let the tire wear evenly??? 

Since then, I fell in love with the car tire. 

Second question.... the splines.  I check mine every other oil change.  Now... I know I'll get ribbed for this.... but here's what I do:

Every 5,000 miles - Change Oil.
Every 10,000 miles - Lube rear end (while checking splines) and change oil.
Every 20,000 miles - Check valves (though not needed that often) and all fluids.

When I hit 50,000 miles, I'll check the timing belt and change plug wires.  Although... I may do that earlier.  I seem to be having an odd miss at high RPM and a strange tick at idle.... I'm thinking I have a bad spark plug or wire. 

I hope that answers your questions.  As stated previously, you'll get many different answers... but this is my 2 cents worth.    

[vanagon40]

As Jess suggested, even though a motorcycle tire will last perhaps 10,000 miles (I had 9,300 and one tire plug on the OEM Dunlop when replaced), “the last 1500 miles or so are not on great rubber.”  Therefore, in 20,000 miles, I would expect to ride about 3,000 miles on not great rubber.  With the car tire, I figure I can change it at about 20,000 to 25,000  miles, long before I get to the “not on great rubber” stage of the tire.

I lubed my splines at about 11,000 miles after installing the car tire and I will probably change the tire on the next spline lube (before I get to the not great rubber stage).

Avoiding the not great rubber stage was the major factor for me.  That the tire lasts twice as long for half the price is a major bonus.

[AussieValk]

I wish I could get tyres as cheap as you guys. My main reason was cost and wear. The Metz was getting around 7 - 8000kms before going in the bin, and at a cost of $400 Aussie dollars to replace. (our dollar is worth about 90cents US). Biggest issue here though is that cops and insurance companies hate them, so here's hoping I don't get pulled over or wiped out. As for lube, I do it myself each year anyway.....can't trust shops to do it for you.

[woefman]

Thanks to all that Participated

Some Great answers.

[Momz]

I bought this tire fore $83.03 from Belle Tire in Detroit.
Kelly Springfield Fierce

12K miles and no perceptible wear. Far better ride at highway speeds and great load capacity.

[98valk]

>Tread Life
>Cost
>Traction
>Ride Feel
>Cool Tread!

I do my rear end maintance every spring regaurdless of miles since the last time. I never have done over 15,000 miles a year anyway. I have about 10,000 on my 1st CT and love it. I felt very little differance between a MT or a CT. I ran a 200 Metz and I think that help me adjust switching to a CT. Do notice truck ruts and other flat areas like sides os man holes, speed bumps, etc. Far better in rain and grind lines from tearing up asphalt. Curves are just as Jess stated. No problems with 5 mph curves in the Black Hills. Should have done it years ago.

what brand tire is that?
Thanks

[daytona]

>Tread Life
>Cost
>Traction
>Ride Feel
>Cool Tread!

I do my rear end maintance every spring regaurdless of miles since the last time. I never have done over 15,000 miles a year anyway. I have about 10,000 on my 1st CT and love it. I felt very little differance between a MT or a CT. I ran a 200 Metz and I think that help me adjust switching to a CT. Do notice truck ruts and other flat areas like sides os man holes, speed bumps, etc. Far better in rain and grind lines from tearing up asphalt. Curves are just as Jess stated. No problems with 5 mph curves in the Black Hills. Should have done it years ago.

what brand tire is that?
Thanks

+1 I'd like to know too!

[fudgie]

Hankook K-106 205-55

$73 The contact patch is about 4 1/2inches and my 200 metz is 3 1/2. Tire is like 7" wide or so. So its a little round of a tire. I have seen no signs of wear except the paint markings are gone. It'll lay black marks accros a intersection without barking.