Oil change. Hmmmmmm.

[..]

Going through the motions doing an oil change.

Old oil out. Filter removed. Let bike sit for 10 minutes to drain.

Stand bike up for a couple of minutes to let the oil drain.

New filter and new oil.

Later on my occasionally functioning brain popped a flash off.

How much oil did you put in?
 Huh?

How much oil did you put in?

Bugger. 5 quarts.

This morning I decided to remove some of the excess.

Didn't want to take the drain plug out and get a whoosh of oil so I removed the filter.

Some came out but not the amount I thought would.

Filter back on. Crank engine. Filter off. Drain. Filter on. Crank engine. Repeated 5 times.

Let bike sit for 5 minutes. Checked dipstick. Correct level. Now to clean up.

I was shocked.    Shocked I tell you, to see how black the oil was as I poured it into the old oil gallon container.

What need to be done in the procedure to make sure ALL the old oil is drained away?

[hubcapsc]

What need to be done in the procedure to make sure ALL the old oil is drained away?

Nothing I can think of other than several back-to-back full oil changes, probably filter
too, until you do it and it runs clear... I've heard of people running solvent through there,
I don't really know, but that sounds wrong...

-Mike

[Pete]

There are many flush products on the market to do it with.
Some shadetree types even use Kerosene and Diesel, I would not recommend those.

Also I would be concerned that some of the flush remains in the engine even after draining thereby diluting the new oil.

Suggestion if you do flush, follow the flush with a full clean oil/filter change, idle the engine for a while and change the oil and filter again to get most of the the residual cleaner out.


Changing the oil while hot and longer drain times help get the dirty oil out. Also pouring a clean quart of warmed oil thru at the end of the drain cycle will help flush some of the dirty oil out.

[Chrisj CMA]

Going through the motions doing an oil change.

Old oil out. Filter removed. Let bike sit for 10 minutes to drain.

Stand bike up for a couple of minutes to let the oil drain.

New filter and new oil.

Later on my occasionally functioning brain popped a flash off.

How much oil did you put in?
 Huh?

How much oil did you put in?

Bugger. 5 quarts.

This morning I decided to remove some of the excess.

Didn't want to take the drain plug out and get a whoosh of oil so I removed the filter.

Some came out but not the amount I thought would.

Filter back on. Crank engine. Filter off. Drain. Filter on. Crank engine. Repeated 5 times.

Let bike sit for 5 minutes. Checked dipstick. Correct level. Now to clean up.

I was shocked.    Shocked I tell you, to see how black the oil was as I poured it into the old oil gallon container.

What need to be done in the procedure to make sure ALL the old oil is drained away?

Well the bright side is....bet you dont do that again.

[..]

Going through the motions doing an oil change.

Old oil out. Filter removed. Let bike sit for 10 minutes to drain.

Stand bike up for a couple of minutes to let the oil drain.

New filter and new oil.

Later on my occasionally functioning brain popped a flash off.

How much oil did you put in?
 Huh?

How much oil did you put in?

Bugger. 5 quarts.

This morning I decided to remove some of the excess.

Didn't want to take the drain plug out and get a whoosh of oil so I removed the filter.

Some came out but not the amount I thought would.

Filter back on. Crank engine. Filter off. Drain. Filter on. Crank engine. Repeated 5 times.

Let bike sit for 5 minutes. Checked dipstick. Correct level. Now to clean up.

I was shocked.    Shocked I tell you, to see how black the oil was as I poured it into the old oil gallon container.

What need to be done in the procedure to make sure ALL the old oil is drained away?

Well the bright side is....bet you dont do that again.

Don't bet on it.

[bassman]

I've heard of folks using Seafoam to aid in oil changes and also can be added to oil like is used to treat gas.  Never tried it myself and use at your own risk !  The couple of folks I talked to about it for oil changes swear by it but that was over ten years ago so have no knowledge of long term effects.

https://seafoamsales.com/how-to-add-sea-foam-motor-treatment-to-gas-and-diesel-crankcase-oil/

[..]

I've heard of folks using Seafoam to aid in oil changes and also can be added to oil like is used to treat gas.  Never tried it myself and use at your own risk !  The couple of folks I talked to about it for oil changes swear by it but that was over ten years ago so have no knowledge of long term effects.

https://seafoamsales.com/how-to-add-sea-foam-motor-treatment-to-gas-and-diesel-crankcase-oil/

For routine crankcase cleaning, add Sea Foam to your engine’s oil (into the oil filler neck) 100 to 300 drive miles before a scheduled oil and filter change.

[bassman]

   I need to learn to read the "fine print" better......

[Tfrank59]

how many miles on your bike?  just curious.  I don't get black oil when I change mine, and I do it every 4000 (I know, it's too frequently), it's more like brown/light brown.  I have less than 80k on my bike and it's oil color hasn't darkened since I got it with around 25k on the clock.  I've also heard about the Seafoam flush trick but haven't bothered.

[3W-lonerider]

My bike has 211,000 miles. I change oil every 8 thousand.  I've never had black oil.
I've used several brands of oil but i prefer castrol. When my clutch started shuttering on takeoff castrol was the only oil that would relieve alot of it.

[..]

how many miles on your bike?  just curious.  I don't get black oil when I change mine, and I do it every 4000 (I know, it's too frequently), it's more like brown/light brown.  I have less than 80k on my bike and it's oil color hasn't darkened since I got it with around 25k on the clock.  I've also heard about the Seafoam flush trick but haven't bothered.

70k

The oil gets worked hard 

Dino changed every 4,000

[indybobm]

Maybe it depends on what part of the country you live in, the temperature cycles might affect it.

[Pete]

Different brands of oil darken at different rates depending on heat, cleaning agents in the oil and fuel contamination of the oil. So when comparing take those in to account.

[Jess from VA]

I have not used dino in anything in years and years.  Even my lawn equipment, generator and two-stoke mix is synthetic (because one grade of synthetic is good for 32:1, 40:1 or 50:1 as machines vary).  I change my Valk synthetic oil every 6-8K, and it's never black (closer to 6K, if longer, harder and hotter riding).  It's not as clear (as new amber/carmel-looking synthetic) as when new, but it's just a darker shade.

Maybe it's the dino, or the dino you're using.

Personally, I'd feel better about my engine with 6-8K changes with synthetic, than 4K changes with dino.

However, if you are running fine, not burning (or losing) any oil, not smoking, not clutch slipping, not overheating, not smelling like burnt oil, you are probably OK, even if it is black... at 4K changes.

I'm assuming you are running 10W40 dino?

I remember on older cars there was detergent and non-detergent dino.  Mostly, you wanted detergent. (I think)

I might run two cups of seafoam in my soon to be changed dino oil, but not for hundreds of miles.  Maybe 30-40 miles.  But I never have.

My only trick to get it all out is to remove the dip and the fill plug and the filter (to open up max airway for draining) before draining oil on a smoking hot (not just warm) bike.  And I lean it way right and hold it for a while.  And I bump my starter a couple times when it's just at final drips (and if it fires up, kill it right away).  That always shoots the last few squirts out (bit of a mess), and I always get the whole gallon in, and not the 3.9qts per the manual.  And it reads level on the dip or a mm or two high, which is absolutely fine.  That may also be assisted by using the slightly longer than OE Purolator  (Pure One) oil filters (baby sh!t yellow ones).

[..]

10-40 Dino

Don't burn any.

Do a lot of 3rd gear 3-5,500 rpm riding.

[Bighead]

Paul 4 qts and ride it!

[..]

Paul 4 qts and ride it!

If it would top RAINING.

[cookiedough]

as said,  tip the cycle as far over to the right side holding bike up with your right leg for  as long as you can at the end of the dripping cycle.  I can get another 4-6 ounces easily out of the Valkyrie by doing this 4-6 times total.  Old oil comes out of the oil drain plug as well as the oil filter area both. 

Certain types of engine run dirtier than others cannot explain it.  My cycles never have had black oil, but my hyundai sonata 2.4L GDI engine even clean oil gets near black after 500 miles of driving, very odd, even when new.  I asked a Hyundai dealer about it and they said that type of engine gets dirty and the oil looks black sooner than most engines. 

My 98 Valk with 80K miles did look blacker oil about same mileage ran this summer as my 01 Valk with 40K miles when changed a few weeks ago, guessing mileage on engine might make a slight difference as well.

[Valker]

I have no idea how many oil changes my 98 Tourer has had in it's 174,000 miles. Longest without changing it has been 11,000 miles with AmsOil in it. I haven't really ever looked if it is dark when I change it or not. I don't think oil is 'bad' if it is dark, I think it's doing its job and the filter keeps it clean enough to keep solids out of the engine.

[Savago]

About oil color: all my bikes will drain brown but never black. I always run full synthetic and perform an oil change at the maker's recommended oil change interval (i.e. 8K miles for the valkyrie).

Due to the suggestions in this forum, I've started using Diesel truck engine oil in my bikes and so far the engines seem to still be running alright (Rotella T5/T6 and Delo 400 comes to mind). I'm looking to do an oil analysis in one of my bikes soon and see how it went (should be alright).

May I ask which oil filter are you using? The task of a good filter is to help to filter some of the dirty in the oil... I wonder if a faulty filter could contribute to have a darker oil?

I've being using Purolator boss black with good results, probably the Purolator Boss One (blue) would be just as good but a bit cheaper.

I would recommend *against* K&N filters, there are quite some reports of it failing (and more recently oil leak through the soldered 'nut' on it, prompting a recall).

I can confirm what cookiedough mentioned: I have a Hyundai veloster 1.6 GDI and the oil always drains really dark, not mattering much the amount of miles I've put on the engine.

Concerning draining the oil: a trick to manage to drain a bit more is to use a zip-tie to engage the clutch and leave it pressed while you drain the oil. A retired professional mechanic taught me this trick and it indeed helps to squeeze some of the old oil out of the engine (i.e. engaging the clutch should press the plates in the clutch).
 

[98valk]

I have no idea how many oil changes my 98 Tourer has had in it's 174,000 miles. Longest without changing it has been 11,000 miles with AmsOil in it. I haven't really ever looked if it is dark when I change it or not. I don't think oil is 'bad' if it is dark, I think it's doing its job and the filter keeps it clean enough to keep solids out of the engine.

you are correct! Color means nothing. used oil analysis (UOA) means everything.
there really are almost zero solids to collect at what micron size most oil filters have. The PureOnes, now called something else are usually about 12 microns, most others are 15-20 microns.
A bypass filtration system is the only way to filter out solids down the five to one micron level.

[Randy52]

Having overhauled hundreds of diesel engines it always suprised me that the oil would drain out black as coal, but the internal engine parts would usually be very clean. The oil doing it's job holding dirt in suspension until drained. I'd bet your internal engine parts are as clean as day 1.

[DGS65]

About 6 months ago I flushed the engine with gasoline.  Yep filed the crank case with gas then drained it completely replace oil and filter then ran it for a few miles and drained and replaced again.
Oh I forgot to mention this wasn't intentional my petcock failed and this is what happened this said my oil is very clean!  !

[98valk]

oil capacity,  3.7 L or US 3.9 qts  after draining filter/change.   4.3L  or US 4.5 qts at engine disassembly.

most if not all engines leave old oil inside after an oil change. does zero harm. auto manufacturers for yrs allow oil filter change out every other oil change.
the oil is mostly dark from depleted additives unless one uses no air filter or a k&n and operate the vehicle on dirt roads, construction sites, high wind dirt/sand conditions, then change 3k miles.

[0leman]

When draining my Valk's  oil, I usually let it sit on side stand till it quits drain or nearly so.  Then put a block in place so that the right crash bar will lay on it.  then get on the old girl, hold in the front brake and tip her over.  The block will hold most of the weight.  Give her 3-4 minutes to drain the rest of the oil out.  Worked for that way for over 10 years.  Change it ever 5K miles, easier to remember when to change it, every time it hits a Zero or 5 change it.

Not sure I have ever seen a oil change that the oil wasn't a lot darker coming out than going in.  Just saying.

[Hook#3287]

Concerning draining the oil: a trick to manage to drain a bit more is to use a zip-tie to engage the clutch and leave it pressed while you drain the oil. A retired professional mechanic taught me this trick and it indeed helps to squeeze some of the old oil out of the engine (i.e. engaging the clutch should press the plates in the clutch).
 cooldude

That sounds like a good tip.  Good way to use that .10 qt of oil your supposed to have left over.

[cookiedough]

I am pretty anal about oil changes on my vehicles and cycles, etc.  As is normal and should be done, warm up engine for 5 minutes or so since cold oil does not drain too well.  You will get more old oil out by having warm oil.  I also let drip on any of my engines for at least 30 minutes, sometimes 1 hour or so if have the time.  It is still dripping oil out of any engine even after 1 hour on my vehicles just not as often is all.  Does it need to be done, NO, but if have the time, why not get as much old oil out since I use conventional oil in my cars every 5000 mile intervals. 

I rarely ever go 5000 miles in one year on all my cycles so even though I usually let drip 30 minutes and then tip over as far to the right 4-5 times holding bike up with my right leg,  I doubt is really needed, but does help get that another 4-6 ounces out of oil filter and drain plug area.  Even the owners manual on my kids 2005 yamaha fjr1300 states to change on center stand, but me being me,  after 30 minutes of dripping old oil out,  I took off center stand and tipped bike onto side stand and WOW,  I swear another 5-8 ounces came out underneath the bike much to my surprise.

If you see most dealerships or any oil change lube shop change oil,  they ONLY let drip 2-3 minutes tops is all even put the drain plug back in when still running out, not dripping old oil out.  I think that is foolish, but betcha will do no harm either unless they overfill the new oil back in.

[Bagger John - #3785]

how many miles on your bike?  just curious.  I don't get black oil when I change mine, and I do it every 4000 (I know, it's too frequently), it's more like brown/light brown.  I have less than 80k on my bike and it's oil color hasn't darkened since I got it with around 25k on the clock. 

Over the years I've owned 5 1500 Valkyries, a GL1200 and 3 GL1100s. Oil was and is changed @3K (w/ semi-synthetic), @~4K (w/ full synthetic) or at the end of the season (whichever comes first).

In literally 200+ oil changes I've never gotten "black" oil out of these motors unless they're running overly rich and have been for a considerable period of time. One of the engines had close to 200k on it when some idiot teenager texting on a cell phone decided to t-bone Blondie as she was riding the bike, else it would probably still be serviceable.

[DGS65]

I cleaned mine the hard way!  I had a bad pet rooster which filled the motor with gas so I drained the oil changed the filter ran the bike for about 30 minute then changed the oil again.  My oil came out clean  as could  be! This is not the recommended  method but it worked.

[spongebob]

If you got about 1 qt. to waste...
Drain oil.....sit about 10 minutes
Tilt bike and get that part out.
Leave over night.....
Next day, pour 1 qt. in.....
Drain.... tilt, drain...
Will be surprised how must dirty oil will come out then.
I do that about every 3rd change.
Your dirty oil  mileage may vary.....

[Alberta Patriot]

The only cause for the black oil at 4000 miles that comes to mind is an extra rich fuel mixture. That black is in all likelihood carbon in the oil. That will not damage anything. Check your plugs for rich mixture??
Elevation affects carbed engines, Where I ride here locally, elevation varies between 3500 and 7200 feet. If my carbs were never rejetted that means I am always running a bit rich, but unlikely enough to have black oil between changes. I use Mobil1 full synthetic 15w 50, so I change up at about 6000 miles.  

[98valk]

The only cause for the black oil at 4000 miles that comes to mind is an extra rich fuel mixture. That black is in all likelihood carbon in the oil. That will not damage anything. Check your plugs for rich mixture??
Elevation affects carbed engines, Where I ride here locally, elevation varies between 3500 and 7200 feet. If my carbs were never rejetted that means I am always running a bit rich, but unlikely enough to have black oil between changes. I use Mobil1 full synthetic 15w 50, so I change up at about 6000 miles.  

used oil analysis, would show u could change oil btwn 10-12k miles.

I did a UOA with amsoil 10w30/30 heavy duty diesel oil. At 8k miles and after two yrs the oil was still good for continued use. this engines have very low wear due to their design. Honda knew what they were doing in 1988 when they spec'd the dino oil of the time for 8k oil changes. oil is much, much beter today.

[clanky]

I've got 130K on my bike. Use Dino oil. Change oil and filter every 5K, no problems with engine or transmission. Oil comes out black because detergent oils are designed to grab the carbon particles and hold them in suspension till oil change.
I've only put additives in oil once on a truck engine that had baked on oil deposits that were found when the valve covers were removed for inspection. Rislone cleaned the engine right up.
If the engine is running OK and oil changes are consistenly done there should be no lubrication problems nor early mechanical death issues.   My $.02 worth.

[Oss]

Paul I buy my oil in the gallon containers
T6 Rotella for the last dozen oil changes
With the bigger filter Pureone I just put all of it in after draining the filter and other plug

Oss

The mystery to me is why I dont get 4 gallons out after 6-8000 miles.
It is good to laugh at yourself when that kind of stuff happens