Shocks and bushings

[DougC]

Hey  folks  I am in  need of  some  new  shocks  for  my 97   I replaced the rear with mid grade progressive and they   well SUCK    willing to sell them ,   what  I would like  is  some  air shocks for the back side     are there any recommendations

[Jersey]

If your running an MC the Progressive Suspension 416 Series 13" Air Shock 416-1627A are good. Ran them for years and worked very nicely.

[DougC]

MC    what     any   way thanks for  the  recommendation   my valk  rides like a brick  going to  put  new  bushings in  sway bar too 

[Jersey]

MC    what     any   way thanks for  the  recommendation   my valk  rides like a brick  going to  put  new  bushings in  sway bar too 

Pardon, meant MT - Motorcycle Tire. 

[Jess from VA]

I always heard air shocks were best for someone who regularly pulled a trailer, or a back seater who could add 200lbs (or so).  IE, adjustable air shocks were best for those who had pretty divergent suspension requirements.  For ordinary folks (with non 200lb back seaters), the better regular shocks work better than air shocks.  That's what I've heard anyway. 

However, even with regular shocks, if you will routinely have any back seater, you may need heavy duty springs rather than standard duty springs (even if standard duty would be OK for you alone). 

I don't think a car tire is in any way dispositive on what shocks you should choose. (the extra weight of one is only a few lbs (10-12lbs max?) heavier than a 180 bike tire).  Rubbing is an issue, not suspension.

[MarkT]

I've run 416's on Deerslayer since '98 with onboard air for easy adjustment even while rolling.  Don't have any rebound damping but do have a large sweet spot provided you match the preload accurately to the load.  Makes for the cushiest ride possible IMHO. However they need to be rebuilt periodically. You can increase their load capacity by adding extra ATF fluid in them.  (That gem was provided on the down-low by their tech guy Jorge years ago - undocumented feature and they will deny it.) They are useful if your load changes dramatically - easy adjustment esp. with onboard air.  However I'd say they don't have enough capacity for me.  When I set up Valk #2 I instead went to premium Prog. 444's  with carefully matched springs and damper.  On this bike I have occasional co-riders and regularly tow trailers which I set up with plenty of tongue weight for good tracking.  With careful spring match these shocks work better for me.  I rarely - read, never - change the preload - run it on max all the time.  Don't recommend the 416's because of their needing rebuilding sometimes.  But I also have the onboard air which exceeds their recommended pressure so I could have abused them.  They aren't so convenient if they leak down and you have to stop at a compressor to air them back up.  And they do develop leaks and need the seals replaced.  Which you can get the kit and do yourself - still an unnecessary hassle if you ask me.

[The emperor has no clothes]

MC    what     any   way thanks for  the  recommendation   my valk  rides like a brick  going to  put  new  bushings in  sway bar too 

sway bar ?

[Bagger John - #3785]

I've run 416's on Deerslayer since '98 with onboard air for easy adjustment even while rolling.  Don't have any rebound damping but do have a large sweet spot provided you match the preload accurately to the load.  Makes for the cushiest ride possible IMHO.

I've done the same with my second I/S, and used the compressor from a GL1200A on a custom mount inside the fairing. A remote electric pressure gauge plus handlebar-mounted controls for the fill/bleed solenoid valves and compressor run functions round everything out.

You can increase their load capacity by adding extra ATF fluid in them.  (That gem was provided on the down-low by their tech guy Jorge years ago - undocumented feature and they will deny it.)

Filed for future reference. 

They are useful if your load changes dramatically - easy adjustment esp. with onboard air.

I don't have a trunk on the I/S at the moment, but I have carried passengers up to 200lbs with this setup. For solo riding I find 55-65PSI works great for a "taut" ride, and 75PSI while riding 2-up gives a nice, cushy ride that doesn't bottom out over the average road surface. (I tend to ride a little more sanely with a passenger aboard, so I don't care if the bike loses a little sportiness in the rear with these shocks when they're run near their max ratings.)

However they need to be rebuilt periodically.

-and-

And they do develop leaks and need the seals replaced.  Which you can get the kit and do yourself - still an unnecessary hassle if you ask me.

This summer I'll have 12 years on mine, though not quite that many thousands of miles. What's the max air pressure you run in yours, in light of:

But I also have the onboard air which exceeds their recommended pressure so I could have abused them.

When I set up Valk #2 I instead went to premium Prog. 444's  with carefully matched springs and damper.  On this bike I have occasional co-riders and regularly tow trailers which I set up with plenty of tongue weight for good tracking.  With careful spring match these shocks work better for me.  I rarely - read, never - change the preload - run it on max all the time.

My 'Valk #2' is a Tourer w/ the I/S's trunk, a Memphis Batwing and other touring accessories added. It currently runs the I/S's OEM shocks and these have around 28K miles on them at the moment. I'm around 230lbs in gear, and may have another 230lbs in passenger and gear aboard the bike at times. What would be a good 444 setup to use in this application?

[Jersey]

I always heard air shocks were best for someone who regularly pulled a trailer, or a back seater who could add 200lbs (or so).  IE, adjustable air shocks were best for those who had pretty divergent suspension requirements.  For ordinary folks (with non 200lb back seaters), the better regular shocks work better than air shocks.  That's what I've heard anyway.  

However, even with regular shocks, if you will routinely have any back seater, you may need heavy duty springs rather than standard duty springs (even if standard duty would be OK for you alone).  

I don't think a car tire is in any way dispositive on what shocks you should choose. (the extra weight of one is only a few lbs (10-12lbs max?) heavier than a 180 bike tire).  Rubbing is an issue, not suspension.

Having ridden both air and non-air shocks, there is a slight difference with the non-air shocks tending to have a better feel/sensitivity to road bumps.  Even the best air shocks tend to be less sensitive in my opinion.  Given that, the difference in sensitivity is still only a slight matter.

One benefit of air-shocks in addition to the 2-up variable, is the adjustability for different riding conditions.  I ride mostly 1-up and lead many group rides through different types of roads and adjust the airshocks to match.  Tend to pump them when in the twisties for more responsiveness and soften them for the highway for a more comfortable ride.

For MT vs CT, the air shocks can compensate for minor differences in tire diameter, which is why I went to the 14" airshock to bring the riding height back up to normal because the CT was a small diameter tire.

In the end, it's really about personal feel and  $$$$.

[Gryphon Rider]

MC    what     any   way thanks for  the  recommendation   my valk  rides like a brick  going to  put  new  bushings in  sway bar too 

sway bar ?

Don'cha know, it's the thing that reduces outward lean while cornering.    My riding style minimizes outward lean in corners, so I've never needed one.

[The emperor has no clothes]

MC    what     any   way thanks for  the  recommendation   my valk  rides like a brick  going to  put  new  bushings in  sway bar too 

sway bar ?

Don'cha know, it's the thing that reduces outward lean while cornering.    My riding style minimizes outward lean in corners, so I've never needed one.

Maybe that’s why I’m only getting 15k out of my front tire. 

[hubcapsc]

I wish I knew if anyone had ever tried these:

https://www.ikonshocksusa.com/products/7610-1542

-Mike

[MarkT]

My 'Valk #2' is a Tourer w/ the I/S's trunk, a Memphis Batwing and other touring accessories added. It currently runs the I/S's OEM shocks and these have around 28K miles on them at the moment. I'm around 230lbs in gear, and may have another 230lbs in passenger and gear aboard the bike at times. What would be a good 444 setup to use in this application?

I set Jade up to haul me with a trailer, or me with a co-rider, but only occasionally both.  I pull 2 trailers, a Timeout camper pictured below, and a HF cargo trailer I modified a lot - it's around half the weight of the Timeout but both have variable tongue weight via the large cooler on the tongue.  On road trips the wife is on her own bike, and I'll haul the trailer with our stuff.  When I set it up I was at a high of 295#.  I put my brother at 200# on the back and the 444's worked well w/o bottoming on a 20 mile ride.  I have since been working on my weight and am down to 250.  Expect to keep going on that.  I arrived at the 444-4057 shock which is 13" with 140/200 springs.  I also tried the 444-4039 which has 210/250 springs and they were way too much for me - felt like a hardtail even with zero preload.  If you order w/o looking at the specs from say Amazon you'll likely get the shock they call "HD" - which might be Heavy Duty but only for Harleys - it's actually light duty on a Valkyrie and that's what Jorge told me. The P/N on that one in 13" is 444-4020. I had that set and the springs are 105/150 - way too light for my use.  BTW you can't just change the springs - the damper also has to match so you order the whole shock with the right springs on it.  Also from Jorge.

BTW their specs on all these shocks is on their site at https://www.progressivesuspension.com/assets/files/7100-105-Specs-And-Tech-Info.pdf

So basically the 4057 works well with me with a load of 495#, or me with 395# when I'm alone and the trailer is loaded - I set it up with close to 100# tongue weight by loading up the large cooler with ice, water and refreshments.  Makes it track well and doesn't bottom.  I leave the preload set at max because even alone, I'm happy with the ride.  Now that I'm losing weight - I might lower the preload some but expect the same shocks to work very well.  Sounds like your load is about the same.

BTW - it's much easier to change the preload on the 444's with a strap wrench. The 444's have 8 turns of the top collar to adjust them and I defy you to do it with your hands like they claim.  I keep one in my road tools.  This one comes in a set of 2 - I actually use the bigger gray one.  Bonus you can use it to change your oil filter too.  I also use a modified McPherson strut spring compressor to help re-install the shocks after a tire change but that's another story.




Don't know on the onboard air pressure because I go by the onboard gauge which is clearly off - so it's useful to me only in a relative way.  But I know I was putting too much air in it because the compressor delivers up to 130# and I sometimes gave it full pressure.

[Jess from VA]

I was able to change the preload with my hands on 440 Progressives, but only soon after I got them.

Later, even with spray lube, King Kong might have been able to, but I sure couldn't.  Getting mean with it only hurt my hands and wrists.  

My strap wrench is an old fashioned one, and it takes me a half hour to figure it out, each time I use it.

This thing is like Rubic's Cube.


BTW Mark, thanks for the details on the 444s.

[dconstruct55]

I sure am glad to learn that I am not the only one who has a hard time adjusting the 444's with my hands. I gave up on doing it barehanded and grabbed some rubber coated mechanics gloves which helped somewhat. The strap wrench sounds like the answer. My manhood has been reinstated.