Share your wisdom to my first semi teardown of a 2003.

[Moofner]

Long Story:

Hi everyone. I haven't visited the forum as much as I used to. When I did, I frequented the 1800 section quite a bit as we tried figuring out the electrics. Then time went by and life distracted me. I still read up on everything and use the search function for my 2003. Now it is time to have another maintenance adventure and I figured some of you old gurus would like the chance to impart some wisdom! I know I'm a youngling in the Valkyrie game at the ripe old age of 38.

I also blame the Florida folk (especially _Sheffjs_) for giving me the older Valkyrie bug. I ended up getting a 2003 due to a friend passing and I wanted to put a tribute to his bike for him. I tell people that I may own the bike, but it will always be his.

Anyways, this is a Tech section. Let us get Techy. I've had the bike for 2 years now but haven't rode it much due to not feeling like the maintenance was up to snuff. Just had a feeling that my friend didn't do all the maintenance he should have since he owned 2 Valkyries and 4 other motorcycles. Over time and a lot of forum searching, I came up with a list of items I felt needed to be addressed.

Short Story:
Areas that I need to work are the rear wheel maintenance, new tires, brake bleeds, brake pads change, coolant flush, clutch line leak/seepage, carb work for CO elevation, desmog, turn signal flasher change (maybe), wire clean-up, final drive oil change, valve check? (35000+ miles), oil change, and general hose inspection. What else should I throw in here for good measure?

I also like doing these types of threads with pictures. I know that might be old news for some of you, but it makes the journey more fun!

[Moofner]

Here are the first sets of pictures and where I'm at on the maintenance/teardown.

First up was the jacking of the bike. Man, this bike is truly heavy and I had to position the jack to account for front heaviness. Luckily, I bought a jack adapter a long time ago and its permanent installed on the engine.


Next was the tank and airbox removals. As first times go, that airbox SUCKS! There were curse words spoken... many of them.


After that was the carbs, which was quite fun since there are SO MANY TUBES! Also, realizing that removing the inlet manifold tubes was a no brainer, along with that plastic air damn. After that they slid out.


Next was some Cobra pipes (not my favorite but they came with the bike. I'm too poor to get the lovely MarkT setup). Removed the engine guards as well for ease of access.



Finally, removed the smog system and started prepping for the Redline kit. It felt good to remove some of those tubes!



So hit me with some wisdom. What have I done to annoy the forum gurus and what else should I pay attention to?

In memory of my friend and why I'm doing all this to keep his bike running:

[Pete]

Since you are that far along on the tear down it may be a good idea to replace all the hoses.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'm curious why you have the jack on the left side ? I've always used it on the right as to be able to let it down on the kickstand. And also the side stand mount is in the way. Hopefully you didn't bend the spring bolt. When servicing the rearend remember the correct order of tightening things. I'm sure your friend would be honored. 

[Moofner]

I'm curious why you have the jack on the left side ? I've always used it on the right as to be able to let it down on the kickstand. And also the side stand mount is in the way. Hopefully you didn't bend the spring bolt. When servicing the rearend remember the correct order of tightening things. I'm sure your friend would be honored. 

Didn't occur to me that the right side was the preferred method. I also had garage space issues and needed to keep space open for the Baja (working on that one too). Everything seemed to clear with the jack adapter on the motor. The exhaust will be reinstalled last and off of the jack.

I have search functioned the rear maintenance procedure way too much, visited the shop talk, got the service manual, and have a printed copy of Carl Kulow's maintenance guide. I hope that will keep me on the right reinstallation track.

[Moofner]

Since you are that far along on the tear down it may be a good idea to replace all the hoses.

I've started looking into it for the radiator hoses. Standard fuel hose is already on hand. I'm a bit leary of breaking the carbs down and replacing the hoses on them, along with all the seals. This go around will be the float bowls gaskets if I can help it. There were no carb issues other then running so rich the exhaust would make my eyes water.

I purchased a digisync last year in preparation for rejetting (if needed) and resync.

[Hook#3287]

Since you are that far along on the tear down it may be a good idea to replace all the hoses.

I've started looking into it for the radiator hoses. Standard fuel hose is already on hand. I'm a bit leary of breaking the carbs down and replacing the hoses on them, along with all the seals. This go around will be the float bowls gaskets if I can help it. There were no carb issues other then running so rich the exhaust would make my eyes water.

I purchased a digisync last year in preparation for rejetting (if needed) and resync.

  Unless you see an obvious issue, I wouldn't mess with the radiator hoses.  I'd be more concerned with the metal coolant pipes, but I've never replaced any of those either.  My original Valk has all the original coolant parts except the pump, and she's 4 years older and has 117K on her.  All the other rubber you come across, I'd replace. 

Of course,  It depends on how she's been stored over the years.

[..]

I'm curious why you have the jack on the left side ? I've always used it on the right as to be able to let it down on the kickstand. And also the side stand mount is in the way. Hopefully you didn't bend the spring bolt. When servicing the rearend remember the correct order of tightening things. I'm sure your friend would be honored. 

Didn't occur to me that the right side was the preferred method. I also had garage space issues and needed to keep space open for the Baja (working on that one too). Everything seemed to clear with the jack adapter on the motor. The exhaust will be reinstalled last and off of the jack.

I have search functioned the rear maintenance procedure way too much, visited the shop talk, got the service manual, and have a printed copy of Carl Kulow's maintenance guide. I hope that will keep me on the right reinstallation track.

https://www.facebook.com/BigBF5/videos/576331115809274/

[gordonv]

I think you are working in the right direction. The only thing different I would have done was to get the bike running first.

The carbs are off, make sure you replace the o-rings. The CO guys would be the best to tell you if you need to alter anything for your location.

Check the petcock. But the fact it isn't leaking right now off the bike, shows it may be functioning properly.

If I had the chance, I would change the anti freeze to that Evans life time. I would rather ride than work on the bike, and the easier the better.

[Moofner]

I think you are working in the right direction. The only thing different I would have done was to get the bike running first.

The carbs are off, make sure you replace the o-rings. The CO guys would be the best to tell you if you need to alter anything for your location.

Check the petcock. But the fact it isn't leaking right now off the bike, shows it may be functioning properly.

If I had the chance, I would change the anti freeze to that Evans life time. I would rather ride than work on the bike, and the easier the better.

She was a runner and I checked the petcock by turning fuel off and letting the bike idle till it died. There was minimal fuel left in the bowls. I then drained the fuel from the tank through the petcock with applied external vacuum. I already purchased new Viton gaskets for the intake manifolds.

[Pete]

Honda has a high altitude adjustment procedure for the Valkyrie.
If I remember correctly it is set the idle mixture screws 1/4 to 1/2 in, in being leaner.
From the standard setting.

[Moofner]

Honda has a high altitude adjustment procedure for the Valkyrie.
If I remember correctly it is set the idle mixture screws 1/4 to 1/2 in, in being leaner.
From the standard setting.

I verified the jets inside the carbs as stock. I guess that means it will be all about the pilot screws. I've also been looking into changing out the Cobra exhausts but the only thing I could afford right now would be a new Delkevic setup.

Is it worth putting the pilots at a #38? A lot of searching through the forums has shown people like the results and this bike has been a rather cold blooded starter. Turning down the pilot screws could help reduce the overrich condition but I feel like I'm missing something with my thinking. Carbs are my weak point. Before Valkyries the worst I had to deal with was a Suzuki Bandit's 4 carb setup at sea level.

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

I verified the jets inside the carbs as stock. I guess that means it will be all about the pilot screws. I've also been looking into changing out the Cobra exhausts but the only thing I could afford right now would be a new Delkevic setup.

Put the Cobras up for sale on the classifieds here, as well as your local Craigslist and Facebook marketplace. You can probably get enough to buy a decent used set of stockers. Lots of people love the Cobras...

[Pete]

If you are already rich #38's will not help they potentially deliver more fuel.

[Moofner]

If you are already rich #38's will not help they potentially deliver more fuel.

Copy that! I have both the stock 35s and some new 38s. I have plenty of time to talk to the Colorado gentlemen and decide what to go with.

[Moofner]

Supabowl? Ain't nobody got time for that!

Well the fun continues, and enters firmly into reality land. As in reality check, as in my old friend probably didn't do the maintenance like he should have.

Anyways, here we go!



Pulled the rear fender as the instructions said. Fun fact, wives will laugh in their husbands face when they get called to help because you need the extra hands. I wasn't ready for the last two leatherlyke hanger bolts to drop the rear fender.



While I was there, I did a look at the tire itself and noticed some weird plastic melting on the pumpkin. The tire was cupping pretty badly and I also looked at the date of manufacture. Tire is 8 years old!




Then the rear wheel pull was up next. I should have known it wouldn't all come out as one piece.


Now for reality: The splines are dust... rust dust.




The damage and wear now make me want to pull the pumpkin and the u-joint to inspect everything. My friend's bike is going to start getting expensive. More to come as I now start trying to source parts. Judging from some of the other recently started threads, I'm not the only one.

[TTG53#1717]

While you have the carbs out you need to replace the fuel delivery o-rings. Mine failed suddenly last Spring and it could have been a total burn up if I wasn’t paying attention to the unusually sudden and strong smell of gas. Just pouring out and pooling on the engine.
I used this kit and it worked perfectly. No affiliation.

https://redeye.ecrater.com/p/6738361/carb-fuel-rail-leak-kit

[sandy]

Your "rich" smell is from the idle jets being clogged up. Soak them overnight in carb cleaner and blow them out. Visually check for improvement before/after soaking. Set the pilot screws at 2 turns out as a baseline starting point. When idle jets are gradually clogging, the (PO) owner raises the idle to accommodate for the loss of idle. Upon reassembly you'll probably find that you can reset the idle adjust quite a lot.

[Farside]

  Greetings Moofer. I was thinking of you recently and wondering how things were going for you in CO. You're right you haven't been on the fourm in a while. I guess all that cold weather allows you to get things done for your ol' girl. Good luck with all that!  We went on a RTE yesterday to Baker, FL at Gators Cafe for breakfast. Starting 55 degrees that morning so very nice ride. Good seeing your post and if you get back this way give us a heads up! Happy New Year!    Keith

[John Schmidt]

A minor but important suggestion; reinstall the air dam now, but soften it first using a heat source....water, sun, heat gun, etc.  Once the dam is installed, go to the two top engine hanger and loosen and either remove or swing them back out of the way. Now you can reinstall the carbs without messing with the air dam again. If you ever feel the need to pull the carbs again, leave the air dam in place and simply address the engine hangers as described.....you don't need to pull the dam. Ever! And don't worry about the engine falling out, it's not going anywhere if the upper hangers are removed 'cuz it still has four other points of support.

As an afterthought....you only need to raise the bike so the rear wheel is an inch or two off the floor to pull everything you've mentioned with the exception of the front wheel and/or forks. Barring front wheel removal, there's nothing that can't be done on the Valk when only a couple inches off the floor, plus it makes R&R the rear wheel a lot easier. Jacking over 700lbs. as high as I see in your pictures is downright scary and not necessary.

[MarkT]

On your carbs - stock jets work very well here.  In fact better than they do at low altitudes.  The bikes are set too lean to start with, thx to the EPA.  The thin air here gets you close to a perfect ratio of 14.7 - 1.   The only thing pertinent to this higher altitude is the mixture.  The other tips are all good.  And BTW - I run Evans permanent waterless coolant in all my vehicles.  All 3 running Valks, the Wing (1800), the Kubota and the 4Runner.   Do it once and scratch cooling system maint off your future lists.  Sounds like you have a good start on getting your 2003 squared away.

[Moofner]

A minor but important suggestion; reinstall the air dam now, but soften it first using a heat source....water, sun, heat gun, etc.  Once the dam is installed, go to the two top engine hanger and loosen and either remove or swing them back out of the way. Now you can reinstall the carbs without messing with the air dam again. If you ever feel the need to pull the carbs again, leave the air dam in place and simply address the engine hangers as described.....you don't need to pull the dam. Ever! And don't worry about the engine falling out, it's not going anywhere if the upper hangers are removed 'cuz it still has four other points of support.

As an afterthought....you only need to raise the bike so the rear wheel is an inch or two off the floor to pull everything you've mentioned with the exception of the front wheel and/or forks. Barring front wheel removal, there's nothing that can't be done on the Valk when only a couple inches off the floor, plus it makes R&R the rear wheel a lot easier. Jacking over 700lbs. as high as I see in your pictures is downright scary and not necessary.

Copy on the air dam advice. I'll reinstall it immediately after I complete my cleanup and wash. I had 3 other friends help me jack the bike and we were all nervous doing it. I wanted it high up because I knew the front wheel would also be coming off. It has a 13 year old tire on it! Couldn't believe seeing a 96 stamp on it.

The rear wheel wasn't that bad of a removal even with it being that high up. I used a car jack to take the weight while I shuffled the wheel around. Good advice though from a guru. Exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks!

[Moofner]

While you have the carbs out you need to replace the fuel delivery o-rings. Mine failed suddenly last Spring and it could have been a total burn up if I wasn’t paying attention to the unusually sudden and strong smell of gas. Just pouring out and pooling on the engine.
I used this kit and it worked perfectly. No affiliation.

https://redeye.ecrater.com/p/6738361/carb-fuel-rail-leak-kit

Zero balance but I'll look into getting the seals. I'm avoiding a full carb teardown but the fuel rail seals make sense. I can immediately put everything back together and it will need a carb sync anyways.

[Moofner]

On your carbs - stock jets work very well here.  In fact better than they do at low altitudes.  The bikes are set too lean to start with, thx to the EPA.  The thin air here gets you close to a perfect ratio of 14.7 - 1.   The only thing pertinent to this higher altitude is the mixture.  The other tips are all good.  And BTW - I run Evans permanent waterless coolant in all my vehicles.  All 3 running Valks, the Wing (1800), the Kubota and the 4Runner.   Do it once and scratch cooling system maint off your future lists.  Sounds like you have a good start on getting your 2003 squared away.

A flush is definitely in order and I'll pickup some of that coolant. Does your jetting advice apply to the Cobras if I have to reinstall them? I don't want to but my budget is about to take a hit if I need a new pumpkin or final drive setup (which I think I do.)

[JimC]

It was hard to tell from your pics of the rear end, clean it up good and take some clear close up pics that show the wear on the splines, then the experts will tell ya if it is needed or not.

Jim

[MarkT]

The reason to rejet with Cobras would be to fatten it up. You get that already thx to the thin air, so I don't think so.  Put in some fresh plugs, go ride burn a couple of tanks then read the plugs.  I think you'll get a good burn if you are running stock jets.

On the Evans coolant - you need the prep fluid too.  It's purpose is to help get rid of all water in the system.  BTW I have one of their refractometers to check the remnant water in the system after you're done.  Also - if you get a choice - try to use pure gas.  I got lucky when the Murphy came in a couple years ago.  It's the closest gas station about 4 miles away and they have pure gas.  That's all I buy now except when on the road.

[SCain]

Honda has a high altitude adjustment procedure for the Valkyrie.
If I remember correctly it is set the idle mixture screws 1/4 to 1/2 in, in being leaner.
From the standard setting.

I verified the jets inside the carbs as stock. I guess that means it will be all about the pilot screws. I've also been looking into changing out the Cobra exhausts but the only thing I could afford right now would be a new Delkevic setup.

Is it worth putting the pilots at a #38? A lot of searching through the forums has shown people like the results and this bike has been a rather cold blooded starter. Turning down the pilot screws could help reduce the overrich condition but I feel like I'm missing something with my thinking. Carbs are my weak point. Before Valkyries the worst I had to deal with was a Suzuki Bandit's 4 carb setup at sea level.

I tried the #38 pilot jets and didn't have much success, I live in the state just south of you and my house is a 5500 feet in elevation, everywhere we ride around here the elevation goes up. Your stock jets should work just fine, don't mess with them.

[indybobm]

The drive splines and drive flange might be usable once you get them cleaned up.
Looks the the rear wheel has the stock Honda tire valve. Be sure to get rid of those.

[Moofner]

It was hard to tell from your pics of the rear end, clean it up good and take some clear close up pics that show the wear on the splines, then the experts will tell ya if it is needed or not.

Jim

I don't think I'll need the experts on this one. The aircraft mechanic in me knows both the flange and the final drive splines are toast. I cleaned it all and could see the damage clearly. In addition, I put the flange back in and noted significant movement before spline engagement and subsequent driveshaft movement.

This following won't be anything new to the gurus. I also apologize for the picture sizes, but in this case the higher resolution helps to see how bad it is.

Flange clearly has a grove mark all the way around:



Final drives are even worse with at least a quarter of spline material worn away:



Metal flakes this size are never a good thing:


So a rear wheel flange looks to be about $170 from Bike Bandit. Their final drive gear set is looking about $250. Entire final drive assembly is $1100 but on back order. Is it possible to replace just the worn final drive gear set?

[Moofner]

Back to normal size pictures for the board.....

Has anyone ever had the rear pumpkin plastic guard do this before?

[The emperor has no clothes]

Your drive flange and gear are clearly worn. But I don't know if I'd consider them toast. I think with a good cleaning, proper lubing, proper reinstallation you might be fine for quite a few more miles. At least enough time to be able to locate good equipment for replacement. Being that you are mostly putting miles on your 2014, it probably would be fine indefinitely. The pinion cup and driveshaft is ok ? And no, I haven't seen that kind of damage to the plastic ring before. Any idea what it's from ?

[gordonv]

Back to normal size pictures for the board.....

Has anyone ever had the rear pumpkin plastic guard do this before?

I suspect that it's been spinning around with the wheel. It is supposed to be screwed on with one screw to the pumpkin.

[Moofner]

Plastic was not spinning. I removed the bolt and rotated it for removal. Thought occured to me though...

Does that look like a bad dremel job to anyone else? Sand paper wheel to grind the plastic down, which ultimately just melts it?

[Moofner]

The pinion cup and driveshaft is ok ?

So some good news now! Pulled the pumpkin and driveshaft. Both ends of the driveshaft look great and the cup looked good too. Is the pinion cup supposed to be that wet? I wiped off the grease for a closer look at the splines and they were all good. Looked down the tube to the u-joint and it also looked good. The rubber boot on the swingarm also looks as if it has been changed before I go the bike. Thoughts?

[Pete]

Go to the classifieds and advertise for a used low mileage takeoff rear drive assemble.
You should be able to get the whole "pumpkin" for $450 and maybe the rear flange also.

These come from 3 wheel conversion Valkyries.

[The emperor has no clothes]

The pinion cup and driveshaft is ok ?

So some good news now! Pulled the pumpkin and driveshaft. Both ends of the driveshaft look great and the cup looked good too. Is the pinion cup supposed to be that wet? I wiped off the grease for a closer look at the splines and they were all good. Looked down the tube to the u-joint and it also looked good. The rubber boot on the swingarm also looks as if it has been changed before I go the bike. Thoughts?

looks good. Yeah they are lubed from the two holes you see down in there with gear oil coming up thru there. Along with greasing up before reinstallation.

[Chrisj CMA]

Moofner, those drive splines are definitely usable for a long time.  Many more miles. Get a little moly paste on the flange and a good loading of some waterproof grease in the drive and ride it!

[Moofner]

Moofner, those drive splines are definitely usable for a long time.  Many more miles. Get a little moly paste on the flange and a good loading of some waterproof grease in the drive and ride it!

So even with a visible twist and clunk before spline contact, the flange and final drive splines are still good to use? The aircraft mech in me doesn't like that loose of tolerance in a gear. Won`t the flange and gear splines accelerate their wearing down, regardless of how much moly paste goes in?

[Chrisj CMA]

Moofner, those drive splines are definitely usable for a long time.  Many more miles. Get a little moly paste on the flange and a good loading of some waterproof grease in the drive and ride it!

So even with a visible twist and clunk before spline contact, the flange and final drive splines are still good to use? The aircraft mech in me doesn't like that loose of tolerance in a gear. Won`t the flange and gear splines accelerate their wearing down, regardless of how much moly paste goes in?

Yes of course it's not going to last as long g as one with no wear. However, I have seen worse put back in service for quite a while.  It should at least last (like was mentioned) until you find a good deal on a replacement

[Moofner]

Moofner, those drive splines are definitely usable for a long time.  Many more miles. Get a little moly paste on the flange and a good loading of some waterproof grease in the drive and ride it!

So even with a visible twist and clunk before spline contact, the flange and final drive splines are still good to use? The aircraft mech in me doesn't like that loose of tolerance in a gear. Won`t the flange and gear splines accelerate their wearing down, regardless of how much moly paste goes in?

Yes of course it's not going to last as long g as one with no wear. However, I have seen worse put back in service for quite a while.  It should at least last (like was mentioned) until you find a good deal on a replacement

I appreciate the advice and know you've done quite a bit of wrenching on these machines. Unfortunately, the splines would always be in the back of my mind and prevent me from really enjoying the ride (or giving the bike the beans to poop n' git).

So that being said.... I'm committed.


I'll be taking the ring gear half into work tomorrow along with my bearing press adapters. More pictures to follow as I separate everything. I have access to a lot of fun machines that are used for aircraft mods. All bearings so far, to include the wheels, are smooth with no binding or looseness. I'll figure out tomorrow if the exterior ring gear bearing is the same way. I'm compiling a list of parts that I need and will source the ring/pinion gears and a new wheel flange first. I also need to go out and purchase all the lubes, pastes, and fluids all with the next payday.

I also checked the wheel dampener rubbers. They all looked good and will be going back in. Also removed the rear brake rotor and checked the depth on it. 7.02 mm, good to go!


As usual, everyone's input is welcome and considered valuable. I hope I'm not spamming with all the pictures, but I think they help with following along on the journey.