Good first handgun?

[Chrisj CMA]

Texas is anvooen carry state.    I got the CHL license about 10 yrs ago and bought a cheap Keltec 380 in case it ever got stolen.   Sure enough it got stolen out of my car 3 weeks ago.   I reported it to authorities but dont expect to ever see it again.   And no, my car was not locked.   A neighbor told me his car had been ransacked and I went and looked and sure enough my 380 was gone

Thieves ransacking unlocked cars is a common thing around here too. I’m totally amazed at how many people leave guns in their unlocked vehicles.  Nothing personal but leaving a gun in a car unattended is bad enough when the car is locked. Leaving the gun in an unlocked car unattended should be a crime in my opinion

[Chrisj CMA]

Texas is anvooen carry state.    I got the CHL license about 10 yrs ago and bought a cheap Keltec 380 in case it ever got stolen.   Sure enough it got stolen out of my car 3 weeks ago.   I reported it to authorities but dont expect to ever see it again.   And no, my car was not locked.   A neighbor told me his car had been ransacked and I went and looked and sure enough my 380 was gone

If you are carrying a firearm for protection. You may want to rethink carrying a cheap gun. Especially a cheap semi auto. And on top of that a size round that has the least chance of stopping an attacker.

If you want a small gun, they make 9mm rounds that are worthy of self protection from human threats. However, I don’t think I would trust a 9mm for even an attack by a large dog.

For the OP. It’s vitally important to understand what the threat is and prepare adequately. Concealed carry is a huge responsibility. One should try to imagine all possible scenarios and already know what response is appropriate. Carrying a tiny cheap weapon that may not hit POA reliably or may jam is worse than not carrying at all.

[MarkT]

I had two Glocks before the accident.  G23 (.40S&W) and G21 (.45ACP).  Put CT lasergrips on both.  Both ALWAYS went BANG when trigger pulled.  I always used factory ammo - didn't reload for them.  But they are supposed to be unfinicky with ammo.  Not mentioned yet, they have operational simplicity of a revolver.  No manual safeties though they have 4 "automatic safeties". They aren't the Lone Ranger on that aspect.  Some other brands have emulated their operation.  I got them because they are heavily vetted by cops and military and have been soaking in use for many years.  I believe they are the originators of the type (poly autos, simple operation, dead reliable).  They have an unusual rifling scheme - not cut rifling as usual but it's sort of "shaped" rifling.  Supposedly doesn't need bore cleaning as much - particularly copper fouling.  Seems to work alright.  At the pistol range, my groups were typically about 2" at 25yds.  With the lasers of course.  They also invented (I think) the unusual trigger. It's always at half-rooster.  So it's sort of single-double action.  A bit safer I think than the normal carry in "condition one" (hammer cocked over loaded chamber, safety on)  Pulling the trigger finishes cocking it and then releases it. So the trigger pull is always the same - not lighter and short for single action, heavier and long for double like dbl action revolvers or some autos like Barettas or Walther.  Less likely for confusion and accidental fire in a high-pressure situation.  One disadvantage is, to field strip it you have to pull the trigger.  You should first ensure it's unloaded before handling it ALWAYS anyway, unless you are shooting.

I had changed a spring in the fire control group on the G23 just for a slightly better trigger.

Really good holster(s) are important.  Not those cheap crap nylon cloth "fits all guns" (BS) ones, but quality leather, kydex, or hybrid leather/kydex ones that are fitted to your specific gun.  You'll find that you need different holsters for different seasons and your concealment (cover) garments. I have boxes of rejected holsters, and more boxes for current use.  Among non-custom made (by a leatherman) the best brand for all leather I've found is Galco.  There are a number of makers of hybrid IWB (Inside Waist Band) holsters which are absolutely the most comfortable for all-day wear and most-concealing.  Also they aren't real expensive.  You can find a lot of those on ebay.  

You need a very good quality heavy duty gunbelt to hold your gun, mags and pants up.  I buy "instructor's" belts.  Mine are also supported by thick-web suspenders that I modify with loops both ends to go around the gunbelt.  All are covered up by (usually) a CCW cloth vest.  Or denim jacket.  NRA sells a nice one which is also a CCW jacket (inside pockets for carry and magazines).  However that one looks nice but the lining isn't properly secured to the outer.  Concealment vests are available lots of places, google that.  However it's not the best carry method - access not real fast to the inside pockets compared to a proper holster.

I was not disappointed in the Glocks in any way.  Except they could use adjustable night sights.  Seems the Glock brand is either loved or hated - like Harleys.  Maybe because it's kinda like the "Sony Solution" - Glocks are the go-to gun and are accepted by many just on their name and because lots of PD's have adopted the brand.  So to be against the brand it's kinda "I know better so I'm gonna be a fan of XYZ brand instead".  Personally I don't care about the snobbery reasons - even with bikes.  I ride Honda because they are best value and they are dead reliable - I actually shopped Harley first when I got back into riding in 97 after a 26 year hiatus.  Didn't take me long to recognize the hype and value issues. I bought Glocks because they are best value and they are dead reliable - and it was a shortcut; could get started with a good sized hi-powered/capacity combat-ready autoloader with minimal research - my .380's and Browning Hi Power and 1911 and Derringers and Python et al were variously getting long in the tooth and not really up to the task.

But I digressed. There are other probably nicer guns like the Sigs.  More $$$ though, and unlikely more reliable. Perhaps slightly more accurate.  Money and accuracy similar with a Glock with the CT lasergrips, to the Sig-Sauers (which you can get lasergrips for too).  Maybe more accurate with laser, faster target acquisition, esp at night - never had a CTLG failure but they do have batteries. Which are free for lifetime, BTW - but no big deal, they are 2032's (IIRC) cheap and available everywhere.  With green lasers, Glock and Crimson Trace laser cost is close to $1000 - the realm of the Sigs.  w/o laser, around $5-600. You can get red lasers which are cheaper but they aren't as bright esp in sunlight - the green ones are recently offered by Crimson Trace. Too bad the Glocks and the collection are on the bottom of Lake Michigan now.  Maybe found by archeologists a thousand years hence with just the poly parts remaining.

[Serk]

Not on the topic of a specific handgun, but on getting a CCW, looks like you're in Santa Clara county, have you researched the difficulty of getting a carry license in your county? Looks like it might be an exercise in futility unless you know the right people, sadly...

https://medium.com/@clong/applying-for-concealed-carry-in-santa-clara-county-dd3995f80545

[Jess from VA]

This video explains pretty well the grey market that the 'microstamping law' created:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyJxD2F8Wsg

Prohibition always leads to 'alternative' side channels.

I only wish that whoever wrote the law either knew a little about guns or wasn't so hellbent to confiscate guns from law abiding citizens.

Well, that video clears up the Glock generation confusion I had with CA legal pistols.  Nothing after Gen 3 apparently.  

What the video did not discuss is the simple possibility of owning a (lawful) Gen 3 Glock, and simply ordering the barrel and other internal parts from later generations (if any) and dropping them into your older pistol. (IF those parts are lawfully available.)

Savago, you have not discussed your immigration status in the US (and I am not asking).

But obviously you have the added incentive of not screwing that up with any questionable firearm ownership in CA.  

The off roster lawful ownership discussed in the video appears to be completely lawful in CA (and also expensive), but ensure you do your homework and dot your I's and cross your T's in everything you do or buy.

CA, in so many ways, is simply a Rogue State (you know, like Iran).

After reading Serk's linked article on Santa Clara County, I would forget thinking about getting a CCW permit (unless you have some sort of insider pull with the County or Sheriff), and buy full size pistols for range and self defense.  There is simply no reason to compromise on pistol size against the possibility of getting a future permit, when there appears to be no possibility at all you will ever get one.

Based upon that article (and the included map) it would appear your only recourse would be to move into a dark green surrounding county, and start the process again.... and live with the long commute to work. 

[Chrisj CMA]

Not on the topic of a specific handgun, but on getting a CCW, looks like you're in Santa Clara county, have you researched the difficulty of getting a carry license in your county? Looks like it might be an exercise in futility unless you know the right people, sadly...

https://medium.com/@clong/applying-for-concealed-carry-in-santa-clara-county-dd3995f80545

Wow, just wow.  I knew California was bad but I didn't know it was that bad.  I was irritated about having to get a FL CCW and I thought the process was unnecessarily inconvenient.   Now I feel silly for complaining.  When I got my first permit it was done through the agriculture dept.  Two months to wait for the appointment.  Then you have to prove you were trained or show a DD214 from the military, pay $110 then wait another week and then you have your permit.  The only reason you need to have is that you want it.  Now you get it through the DMV and the process is the same only no more two month wait for an appointment.

The FL license is not a gun permit its a weapon permit, and if you look it up...a weapon can be a gun, knife or billy club....no not just a handgun license.

Now I don't feel bad at all about my sarcastic question about CCW in CA and the rounds being carried seperatly

[Jess from VA]

The FL license is not a gun permit its a weapon permit, and if you look it up...a weapon can be a gun, knife or billy club....no not just a handgun license.

Jeff, that is clearly an exception to the rule.  VA (and I believe most states) only make it a concealed PISTOL permit.

So all arcane and wildly varying state and local laws on knives, brass knuckles, sword canes, hammers, billy clubs, kubotans, nupchucks, pepper and mace sprays, electrical stun guns etc are NOT covered with your carry permit, in most states.

This irritates me most on the concept of car/truck guns, where I could otherwise have a LOADED short light carbine rifle or AR pistol or shotgun or Mossy Shockwave/ Remy Tac14 in my truck.  Which my VA permit does not allow.

I've been looking at these for quite some time (and already have several 18" shotguns, but if I can't drop it in the truck (loaded), I don't want one).

Remy


Mossy


And interestingly, with one small easy mod (for reliability),  7 or 8 of these mini 12 gauge shells will fit in a Tac14/Shockwave mag tube and function perfectly in a pump (unlike gas auto shotguns), and reduce recoil in a short light 12 gauge, and still be deadly effective in close range defense work.

buckshot


Punkin' balls too.


Car jack this!!  

And look at this deal with special code from Brownell's, a Mossy Shockwave for $259.99 FREE S&H.
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/07/mossberg-590-shockwave-12gauge-shotgun-14-barrel-deal-2/#axzz5uO5zU2pc

[Savago]

@Serk: yep, things are pretty dire in Santa Clara. Basically I'm planning to move to a saner area next year.
 

[Bighead]

@Serk: yep, things are pretty dire in Santa Clara. Basically I'm planning to move to a saner area next year.
 

Like out of that State?

[Savago]

@Serk: yep, things are pretty dire in Santa Clara. Basically I'm planning to move to a saner area next year.
 

Like out of that State?

Dunno, really.


In the USA, my company has offices in California (San Jose & San Diego), Washington, Texas and Massachusetts. So I guess plenty of options.

[Wizzard]

If you think you are getting chased by a bear,, you need to pause, reach behind you and grab a handful of crap and throw it in his eyes and then run. Don't worry,, you just reach back there and it will be there. 

[T.P.]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/video-from-nypd-shows-gunmans-weapon-jam-as-he-tries-to-shoot-a-woman

When we all figure out what brand of firearm this jack ass is using. 

This is not the brand to buy!

T.P. 

[Chrisj CMA]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/video-from-nypd-shows-gunmans-weapon-jam-as-he-tries-to-shoot-a-woman

When we all figure out what brand of firearm this jack ass is using. 

This is not the brand to buy!

T.P. 

Just another cheap semi auto. Don’t scrimp. Compromise somewhere else

[Savago]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/video-from-nypd-shows-gunmans-weapon-jam-as-he-tries-to-shoot-a-woman

When we all figure out what brand of firearm this jack ass is using. 

This is not the brand to buy!

T.P. 

Thank God the gun jammed.

It is interesting to notice that even though NY (similar to CA) has one of the most restrictive (a.k.a. unconstitutional) gun laws in the country, that *didn't* stop the low life to get a gun and try to murder an innocent woman.
 

[Jess from VA]

This is probably not prohibited in CA.

It's not great as a carry gun, but it takes up to 60 grains of black powder per cylinder, round .44 balls, and percussion caps.  It was the .44 Magnum of it's day.  And it produces about 3 feet of flame and big clouds of smoke.  And is one hell of a club when empty (over 4lbs of steel).  

But now that I think about it, the gun may be legal, but it would probably earn you a big fine from the CA EPA for shooting it.  

I have this Uberti Replica.  It only takes about 15-20 minutes to load (no sense getting in a hurry).

First model Colt's Dragoon (circa 1848)

[Bighead]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/video-from-nypd-shows-gunmans-weapon-jam-as-he-tries-to-shoot-a-woman

When we all figure out what brand of firearm this jack ass is using.  

This is not the brand to buy!

T.P.  

Thank God the gun jammed.

It is interesting to notice that even though NY (similar to CA) has one of the most restrictive (a.k.a. unconstitutional) gun laws in the country, that *didn't* stop the low life to get a gun and try to murder an innocent woman.
 

Yeah and that is what the gun grabbers dont get
Texas would be my choice from those you listed unless it is in Austin but that is still better than where you are IMHO.
I don’t understand however why she just stood there? At least go back inside.

[MarkT]

@Serk: yep, things are pretty dire in Santa Clara. Basically I'm planning to move to a saner area next year.
 

Like out of that State?

Dunno, really.


In the USA, my company has offices in California (San Jose & San Diego), Washington, Texas and Massachusetts. So I guess plenty of options.

I'd say you don't have "plenty of options" with those choices.  Basically you have one choice - Texas.

[Pappy!]

Couple of the posts made perfect sense in that you want the gun that FITS YOUR HAND like a glove, has the controls in a position you like and has enough quality behind it to get you home safely if the need arises.
You seem to like the Beretta and HK. Great quality guns. From this I would suggest you look at The Walther PPQ line and the CZ line up. The CZ 75 series is a gun that fits most people's hand like no other. The CZ 75D compact is a wonderful and good shooting gun. I have Berettas, Walthers, Springfield Range Officers and many other pistols to choose from but if I have room in my clothing for it the CZ comes with me.
Take a good hard look at the 1911 series guns as well. Tons in your price range and they are tried and true. One of the best shooting guns you can have for what you want would be a heavy 4" to 5" 1911 chambered in 9MM. Those are absolutely sweet shooting and fun guns to own and operate.

[Savago]

An update: I decided to buy the SIG Sauer P226 MK25 (with supposedly a few more metal parts and better corrosion treatment than the regular P226).

Link: https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p226-mk25-full-size.html

Its stock trigger felt *way* better than anything else I've tried.

Now I'm facing the mandatory 'waiting period' required by the California gun law (10 days...).

[Serk]

Now I'm facing the mandatory 'waiting period' required by the California gun law (10 days...).

Good thing you're wanting a gun, and not needing one.....  :'(

https://www.foxnews.com/us/no-one-helped-her-nj-woman-murdered-by-ex-while-awaiting-gun-permit

[Savago]

Now I'm facing the mandatory 'waiting period' required by the California gun law (10 days...).

Good thing you're wanting a gun, and not needing one.....  :'(

https://www.foxnews.com/us/no-one-helped-her-nj-woman-murdered-by-ex-while-awaiting-gun-permit

Pretty sad.
 

I also wanted to buy a revolver but got wait 30 days before being allowed. Quote: "For handguns — California law limits the purchase of handguns to no more than one handgun transferred from a dealer to an individual within any 30-day period.".

Link: http://www.socalgun.com/faqs.html

[old2soon]

                   Couple months back I purchased a new Smith and Wesson M&P .40 cal compact. 10 and 1 tritium night sights and it came with 3 different sizes of I guess rear grips. My paws were more comfortable with the X L ones. 185 grain hollow points and the recoil-to me anywho-ain't that bad. Fits very comfortably into either one-mesh or leather-M/C jacket and easy to access. Those tritium sights at night emit a soft blue white glow. Very EASY to line up on target. When i git more loot built up gonna look for another compact .40 cal with a built in green laser. For now And paying Attention to cleanliness my KelTech .380 is Always in my pocket. We do have Legal open carry here in Missouri But i Choose to CCW. While open carry is all well and good wanna guess WHO is first on the hit parade fer a shooter?  RIDE SAFE.

[Pappy!]

Great choice on a first gun!
My wife, Lesa, is a Sig girl. She has a 238, (2) 938s, and a P225A-1. She loves them all. So do I. The quality is there in them and they can be relied upon. 
Latest one I am looking at is the Springfield EMP4 contour.

[Jess from VA]

We used to have the one a month rule in VA (long gone).

I may still have the Tshirt that says:  Buy one gun a month, it's the law.

Here's my new (used) one (under $300, with extra mag and holster).  

[cookiedough]

An update: I decided to buy the SIG Sauer P226 MK25 (with supposedly a few more metal parts and better corrosion treatment than the regular P226).

Link: https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p226-mk25-full-size.html

Its stock trigger felt *way* better than anything else I've tried.

Now I'm facing the mandatory 'waiting period' required by the California gun law (10 days...).

good choice if good enough for the Navy Seals good enough for us.  9mm is a good choice as well IMO.

I do like that Mossberg sawed off pump with hardly any handle at the end would be a good BEAR stopper for sure.  I have 2 mossberg 500 pump shotguns and only thing that has failed me on them was a plastic safety switch broke in two which got replaced with a REAL metal one. 

[h13man]

A year old thread but hell I'll participate.  Recently purchased a S&W M&P .45 and really like it. It become my personal carry as of now due to the times being the way they are. @ $413 taxes included, very fine shooter as I expected from a .45 caliber weapon though my comparison weapon was a Colt series 80 factory racer so to speak but performs very accurately on a much smaller frame. Like the 7 + 1  with the extended clip. The molded texture is a little to grippy but definitely works. Used about 100 rds. of reloads w/o a hitch. Very pleased.

[Jess from VA]

If the OE grip is too gripy (sand-papery), there are a couple choices available in Tape over the polymer handle.  They are also gripy, but in smoother ways (rubbery).  They really add no extra size or weight (to speak of).

Talon:         https://talongungrips.com/gun-grips/pistol-grips/smith-wesson/
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7HV7D0Plm0
                  (I have Talon rubber type (not sandpaper type) on 2 small Kahrs)

Traction:     https://www.amazon.com/Tractiongrips-rubber-overlay-caliber-pistols/dp/B0753KR9NB

Taylor:        https://www.taylor-tactical-supply.com/sw-mp-gt-decal-3pk-p/sw-mp-grip-tape.htm

Dawson:     https://dawsonprecision.com/grip-tape-for-pistol-frames-by-dawson-precision/

Hogue.      (slippons, not glueons and just a bit fatter)  https://www.hogueinc.com/handgun-grips/grips-for-smith-wesson/m-p-shield

 Discussion:  http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/499928-shield-45-grip-stippling-too-rough.html

[h13man]

Thanks for the info Jess. Definitely looking for a slip on sleeve as want a little more fullness the sleeve will offer.

[Jess from VA]

Welcome.

I have the slip on on a (full size) Sig 220 and it's great.  Even with my small hands. 

I really prefer rubber over all other things, though rubber grabs clothing on small(er) carry/pocket firearms.   

[cookiedough]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDpBJ54uYZY

pretty good top 5.

man, that guys shoots more ammo in a weekend than I do in my lifetime.