All Balls Steering Head Bearings

[pancho]

A month or two ago, I cleaned and re-greased the top head bearing, adjusted preload, and it gave me like new low speed handling.  Well that feeling started to fade and since we had a rainy day I decided to take it apart and take a look.



(just had to show my matching bumblebee jack and vacuum)

Under close inspection, there is enough wear to warrant replacement of the seats, bearings and seal.



My question is weather the All Balls bearing kits 
 
 https://www.ebay.com/itm/All-Balls-Racing-Steering-Bearings-Seals-Kit-22-1020/331520004912?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D07b564763af34a3dafc315874e49f16c%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D233198749967%26itm%3D331520004912%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
 
are acceptable for replacement parts and have held up for the you guys that have used them?

[old2soon]

            While I have NO experience with all balls bearings I DO on the other hand have experience with all balls fork seals. We ended up installing O E M fork seals after the all balls seals turned out less than satisfactory. I Know-NOT much help regarding your question. But I will ask-is any price savings worth it? RIDE SAFE.

[98valk]

lots of work to take apart, I just did it and installed I/S trees on my standard.  I used OEM, better chance they are top quality and made in japan.
I did buy and installed the top dust shield that All Balls sells.
I believe the All Balls are from china.

[mello dude]

I used the All Balls steering stem bearings on my VFR and they're fine. (Stock on VFR is ball, AB is tapered.) I did the Valk bearings but used the OEM....

[Bagger John - #3785]

lots of work to take apart, I just did it and installed I/S trees on my standard.

What are the differences in the two, apart from the I/S upper clamp not having the holes to mount the speedo/tach?

[98valk]

lots of work to take apart, I just did it and installed I/S trees on my standard.

What are the differences in the two, apart from the I/S upper clamp not having the holes to mount the speedo/tach?

The I/S has 1/32" more offset which reduces the Trail number. that with a taller CT, rear tire on front and raising the fork tubes about 1/8" reduced the Trail number to 5.62 from 5.98.  so a little quicker steering and less instability at very, very low speeds.
I did drill and tap new holes.

[pancho]

Well,, no one's fessn up to using all balls in their Valk.

Was going to order parts today but had another problem get in the way. Noticed my brakes failing on my old Chevy truck on the way back from the Doggie Park yesterday, and when I examined it this morning found BOTH fluid reservoirs completely empty..



Separated the master from the booster and no leak there, checked all the wheel cylinders and lines and found no evidence of a leak.. WTF  Both were full when last checked a few months ago. Filled the reservoirs and bled the brakes, they are solid ,,,, drove back to the doggie park to visit the other old farts out there, good brakes,...  we will see.  any ideas?

I'll get back on the Valkyrie in the morning, get what I need ordered, I'm missing some good riding weather.

[Valker]

I used All Balls steering head bearings in my 98 Tourer. Zero problems or complaints after 65,000 miles. Hard miles including Alaska. Just my experience. I used their fork seals also. I replaced my wheel bearing with their brand. Still zero problems.

[pancho]

That's what I was hoping to hear, thanks Valker. OEM kit is badly worn at just under 70K, I'll try the All Balls and see how they do. 

[98valk]

do the bearings need to be re-torqued after so many miles?

[pancho]

Mine certainly needed re adjusted,, but the adjustment didn't hold as there are slight flattened spots hammered into the rollers and seats. In the future I may check and readjust every 10 or 20K miles. I also will try the All Balls top seal if it will go in without any clearance issues as the grease in the top bearing was gunked up much worse than the bottom one.

[Valker]

do the bearings need to be re-torqued after so many miles?

Yes. I did it after about 300 miles. I very carefully followed the exact procedure as spelled out in the service manual.

[98valk]

do the bearings need to be re-torqued after so many miles?

Yes. I did it after about 300 miles. I very carefully followed the exact procedure as spelled out in the service manual.

is there a specific page or just the install page?

looking at the maintenance schedule, it indicates 600 miles and then every 8k, inspect, clean, adjust and lubricate.  this has me thinking, why so often?  the GW 1500 has same schedule and there have been many owners who never touch them can get 100+k on the stem bearings.

[Paladin528]

My local Shop will no warranty or sell you (unless you insist) anything all balls.
Chinese crap

[Valker]

do the bearings need to be re-torqued after so many miles?

Yes. I did it after about 300 miles. I very carefully followed the exact procedure as spelled out in the service manual.

is there a specific page or just the install page?

looking at the maintenance schedule, it indicates 600 miles and then every 8k, inspect, clean, adjust and lubricate.  this has me thinking, why so often?  the GW 1500 has same schedule and there have been many owners who never touch them can get 100+k on the stem bearings.

I replaced mine at 125,000. I’m at 180,000 now. I’ll replace them again at about 250,000....unless catching big air a few times on my Alaska trip last year kills them earlier. So far, so good. I have another set of all balls for then.

[pancho]

ooking at the maintenance schedule, it indicates 600 miles and then every 8k, inspect, clean, adjust and lubricate.  this has me thinking, why so often?  the GW 1500 has same schedule and there have been many owners who never touch them can get 100+k on the stem bearings.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean they aren't bad and hammering, I imagine they would notice the difference with a new set or maybe just an adjustment,,, I certainly did.

I machined a groove in the lower tree so the bottom bearing will be easier to remove next time....  it was a bear to get off without causing any damage. There is no clearance to get a drift on the inner race to move it off it's seat. If a person was careful I think this could be done with a rat tail file.





Top outer race was easy to remove,, the bottom is another story. I don't have a Honda 07946-3710500, so I will have to make a special tool.

[pancho]

Here is the tool I made to remove the bottom outer race. Three foot piece of 1 1/2 inch mill finished bar,, gives outer diameter of 1.560 which is a firm fit in the neck with hardly any  wobble. Drilled and tapped  7/16 and some washers locked on offset when it is put in place. At 16 plus pounds, the mass helped the race come out easily when struck with a hammer, moving the washer back and forth.







I ground the top edge of the washer that contacts the race so it fits the provided space more precisely. I found a washer in my bins that was the correct size and had a sharp transition from the flat sides to the edge, not rounded like many washers. Once the race moves off it's seat, there is more room to get a good bite, but the tool worked fine.
Just need to clean up the stuff I removed, and hopefully the bearing kit will arrive tomorrow and I can get back on the road.

[mello dude]

Pancho, just for information check out Park Tool lower steering stem bearing puller., CRP- 2........ since I seem to be the neighborhood sucker MC tech who works for beers..I bought one... does the job......I ll post pics when I get to my desktop.....

[98valk]

do the bearings need to be re-torqued after so many miles?

Yes. I did it after about 300 miles. I very carefully followed the exact procedure as spelled out in the service manual.

is there a specific page or just the install page?

looking at the maintenance schedule, it indicates 600 miles and then every 8k, inspect, clean, adjust and lubricate.  this has me thinking, why so often?  the GW 1500 has same schedule and there have been many owners who never touch them can get 100+k on the stem bearings.

doing some research the GW GL1500 has same maintenance schedule for checking steering stem as does the Valkyrie.

what is curious is the different pre-load numbers
GW    4.0-4.85 lb   steering stem nut 14 ftlbs
C/CT  1.8-2.6 lb     steering stem nut 12 ftlbs
CF      1.1-2.2 lb    steering stem nut   9 ftlbs

then I find this site   https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/shucking.html
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/about/about_v2.html   about who he is and just rebuilds carburetors now.
"You're looking for a 5-7 lb. pull. Five for motorcycles under 600 lbs., more for heavier machines and those with fairings."

So the question is, should the Valkyrie bearings be more tight for a higher lb pull test, for longer life?
having a lighter pull for the heavier I/S contradicts what is used for the GW and what the above site states.  Could the valkyrie manual be incorrect?

some other interesting info
http://archives.wingworldmag.com/apr2002/magazine/article/stembearings.html

http://archives.wingworldmag.com/january2005/magazine/article/AbusedBearings.html   
GL1800 with tapered bearings (same as valkyrie and GW 1500), steering stem nut  18-20 ftlbs

[pancho]

The I/S has 1/32" more offset which reduces the Trail number. that with a taller CT, rear tire on front and raising the fork tubes about 1/8" reduced the Trail number to 5.62 from 5.98.

Hey CA,, I have also been riding for the last year or so with my fork tubes raised in the clamps about 3/16.  I found this when cleaning my parts, just barley touched many times.   Beware,, I'm putting the tubes back to stock position



I'll check the tool out dude, but I got to tell you, mine works pretty good, just can't fit it in a tool box, and at 16 plus pounds certainly don't want to use it after a few beers and drop it on your toe!

I see, not a race remover, but a bearing remover, have you checked to see if it will do a Valkyrie? Now that I milled that trough I should have no problems in the future. If I start repairing motorcycles again I'll keep it in mind, looks like it should do most.

[mello dude]

Pancho - not sure you were refering to me in your last post, but the tool will work in near any cycle steering stem, I did both my VFR and Valkyrie with it. -- Nice tool... Agree.... no beers around while using it.... In addition to being a bit heavy, its kinda bulky awkward.... (..must focus while holding this tool.. )

https://www.parktool.com/product/adjustable-crown-race-puller-crp-2

Park tools price is outrageous... if you shop around, you can knock off a hundred bucks off that.

[pancho]

dude, just wondering if you used the Honda tools to remove the lower race when you did your Valkyrie, or did you come up with another way?

[mello dude]

dude, just wondering if you used the Honda tools to remove the lower race when you did your Valkyrie, or did you come up with another way?

I think you are talking about below?... left one is Harley and right one is Honda. Its been a couple years but I think the Harley one did the job, the Honda one could stand to be 2 inches longer to be more useful.
(Its been awhile, I think I bought the Harley one off Amazon.)

- To add more about the tools, I did buy several of the Honda tools listed in the manual. The stem bearing tube hammer thingy was great!

[pancho]

Yeah that is what I was referring to, just wondering what you used.... Partzilla has them for $114 right now, but instead of waiting a week and spending the dough, I made the above shown replacement.

The stem bearing tube hammer thingy was great If you still have the extra one, you could send it to me.

Got my All Balls bearing kit, I need to polish out the lower tree and get it assembled today,, sure have missed my bumblebee for the last week.

[pancho]

doing some research the GW GL1500 has same maintenance schedule for checking steering stem as does the Valkyrie.


Good information CA, thanks for posting it.

Personally, for final adjustment, I will work around the recommended values until the low speed maneuvering   feels right to me.

[Avanti]

I will work around the recommended values until the low speed maneuvering   feels right to me.

Every bike is different, so this method of adjustment is the one I use!

[pancho]

I had a new project get in the way (learning an electronic sign programming software package) so I didn't get back on the road until this morning,, sure did miss the ride.

There has been a tendency for the bike to pull to one side when driving hands off (body English required to go straight hands off) since I got the bike, can't figure it, (one of the races not completely seated?) but that is gone. Solid as a rock, and drives like a charm. I'll be checking the preload and readjusting the steering nut in a few days after putting on some miles and doing some parking lot figure 8s at 3 or 4 mph, but it feels good to me now.