There Is No Climate Emergency": Scientists Call For Reasoned Debate

[Serk]

I'm rather partial to referring to the new fangled foo-foo energy sources as "Unicorn farts."

[Davemn]

Nobody on this board, including me, is smart enough to fully understand the climate change questions.  Unless you have a PhD in climatology and even then that’s questionable as these experts disagree. All of your opinions are politically based. Anyone can find 50 so called “Scientists “ to support your opinion. “I read this, I read that” blah blah blah. Stick to something you know......car tires and oil!
Of course this is just my opinion and yours likely will be different.

[Willow]

Nobody on this board, including me, is smart enough to fully understand the climate change questions.  Unless you have a PhD in climatology and even then that’s questionable as these experts disagree. All of your opinions are politically based. Anyone can find 50 so called “Scientists “ to support your opinion. “I read this, I read that” blah blah blah. Stick to something you know......car tires and oil!
Of course this is just my opinion and yours likely will be different.

Every state you made with the notable exception of the last is incorrect.   

[carolinarider09]

Fact - The earth's climate changes.  Question - why?

Climate Change advocates believe it that it is caused my mankind's influence on the planet.  That makes the term "Man Made Climate Change" workable. 

That is, without man's existence or influence or activities, the climate would not be changing. 

Some prominent people say we have 12 years left before we can no longer exist as a civilization on the planet. 

So, lets look at  things we can actually see.

If you get a chance to visit Nova Scotia you can visit some coal mines on the island's east coast.  The coal mines are under water.  How is the possible?  The oceans were no where near their current level, many many years ago. There were forests and lands full of vegetation where the oceans are now.  That is the level of ocean's has risen without the assistance/impact of mankind thus allowing the coal to be formed. 

The Sun.

A periodic solar event called a "grand minimum" could overtake the sun perhaps as soon as 2020 and lasting through 2070, resulting in diminished magnetism, infrequent sunspot production and less ultraviolet (UV) radiation reaching Earth — all bringing a cooler period to the planet that may span 50 years. 

I had a chance to look at the sun's surface a few weeks ago.  No sunspots.  Something I have not seen before.  Yes I have been doing amateur astronomy since the 1960s.

https://www.livescience.com/61716-sun-cooling-global-warming.html

An  interesting thing, which I cannot substantiate but is worthy of note.

Termites produce more CO2 each year than all living things combined

https://www.iceagenow.info/termites-produce-co2-year-living-combined/

[Patrick]

Earths climate has been changing since the big bang, and, always will. Our midwestern states were once under water, salt water. Tropical vegation  grew in Canada at one time. Northern states were once covered in ice.  CO2 levels are low compared to other past times. This is stuff all of us should already know.

The sun is dying, its past its half life. Our magnetic field has been decreasing for centuries which is natural and we are overdue for a pole reversal. Our magnetic field happens to be our solar filter, so its not filtering as it should or used to allowing more  of the suns  bad ole death rays in.

The mini ice showed up in the early 14th century and the temperature dropped 6-8º within 20 years. No one knows why. We have just come out of that little ice age about 50 years or so ago, some think we are still coming out of it.

Earths orbit changes, its angle changes, it wobbles. These all change our weather.

Could our environment be cleaner, sure. Is America the problem ? I don't believe so. Other countries need to put some skin in this game. Can we change climate change, I don't believe we can do much about it. I don't think todays car exhaust, plastic straws or cow farts are going to  change much.

[Davemn]

Nobody on this board, including me, is smart enough to fully understand the climate change questions.  Unless you have a PhD in climatology and even then that’s questionable as these experts disagree. All of your opinions are politically based. Anyone can find 50 so called “Scientists “ to support your opinion. “I read this, I read that” blah blah blah. Stick to something you know......car tires and oil!
Of course this is just my opinion and yours likely will be different.

Every state you made with the notable exception of the last is incorrect.   

I didn’t know you had a PhD in any scientific field. Do tell?

[Willow]

Nobody on this board, including me, is smart enough to fully understand the climate change questions.  Unless you have a PhD in climatology and even then that’s questionable as these experts disagree. All of your opinions are politically based. Anyone can find 50 so called “Scientists “ to support your opinion. “I read this, I read that” blah blah blah. Stick to something you know......car tires and oil!
Of course this is just my opinion and yours likely will be different.

Every state you made with the notable exception of the last is incorrect.   

I didn’t know you had a PhD in any scientific field. Do tell?

LOL!  I can't type, though.  State should be statement.  Would my PhD make a difference to you?  You already pointed out that those "experts" disagree.   

[Pluggy]

 A lot of us have been misguided.  You need to know this: The Earth is flat.  The Sun rotates above the Earth in a circle.   We have been told the Sun is shaped like a ball, but it ain't.  The Sun is shaped like a cone and we only see the flat part.  The cone of the Sun is changing shape, but we can't see it.  The shape change can pull the Earth closer to the Sun.  It is not predictable and why it was 101 in NC yesterday. 

Think real hard about it and you'll never believe what you see on TV again.

[The emperor has no clothes]

A lot of us have been misguided.  You need to know this: The Earth is flat.  The Sun rotates above the Earth in a circle.   We have been told the Sun is shaped like a ball, but it ain't.  The Sun is shaped like a cone and we only see the flat part.  The cone of the Sun is changing shape, but we can't see it.  The shape change can pull the Earth closer to the Sun.  It is not predictable and why it was 101 in NC yesterday. 

Think real hard about it and you'll never believe what you see on TV again.

[scooperhsd]

A lot of us have been misguided.  You need to know this: The Earth is flat.  The Sun rotates above the Earth in a circle.   We have been told the Sun is shaped like a ball, but it ain't.  The Sun is shaped like a cone and we only see the flat part.  The cone of the Sun is changing shape, but we can't see it.  The shape change can pull the Earth closer to the Sun.  It is not predictable and why it was 101 in NC yesterday. 

Think real hard about it and you'll never believe what you see on TV again.

You sir - just made my ignore list for your preposterous statements. Even if they were made in jest / joke.

I accept that the earth is a slightly (very slightly) mishapen sphere as is the Sun. Orbits and tilt wobble (next you'll say the orbits are perfect circles - well guess what - they are ellipises). It's not just theory - it's proven fact.

[Patrick]

A lot of us have been misguided.  You need to know this: The Earth is flat.  The Sun rotates above the Earth in a circle.   We have been told the Sun is shaped like a ball, but it ain't.  The Sun is shaped like a cone and we only see the flat part.  The cone of the Sun is changing shape, but we can't see it.  The shape change can pull the Earth closer to the Sun.  It is not predictable and why it was 101 in NC yesterday. 

Think real hard about it and you'll never believe what you see on TV again.

Well how about that !  You sure convinced me. 

[..]

A lot of us have been misguided.  You need to know this: The Earth is flat.  The Sun rotates above the Earth in a circle.   We have been told the Sun is shaped like a ball, but it ain't.  The Sun is shaped like a cone and we only see the flat part.  The cone of the Sun is changing shape, but we can't see it.  The shape change can pull the Earth closer to the Sun.  It is not predictable and why it was 101 in NC yesterday. 

Think real hard about it and you'll never believe what you see on TV again.

What's on the other side of the flat planet Earth?

[Pluggy]

The Earth is flat, but not two-dimensional.  Earth is a disc.  What those schoolbooks call the Equator is the edge of the disc, and on the opposite side of us (in the USA) is Brazil.  This is proven by the lush vegetation of the Amazon.  People in North Carolina put tons of lawn food into our Sandy soil.  It passes through the sand to fertilize the vegetation in Brazil.  We are feeding it from the other side.

[Serk]

For the love of all that is holy, I'm hoping you're trolling/joking.....

[The emperor has no clothes]

For the love of all that is holy, I'm hoping you're trolling/joking.....

Hey ! You are agnostic. Are you trolling/joking us also ? 

[Serk]

For the love of all that is holy, I'm hoping you're trolling/joking.....

Hey ! You are agnostic. Are you trolling/joking us also ? 

[The emperor has no clothes]

The Earth is flat, but not two-dimensional.  Earth is a disc.  What those schoolbooks call the Equator is the edge of the disc, and on the opposite side of us (in the USA) is Brazil.  This is proven by the lush vegetation of the Amazon.  People in North Carolina put tons of lawn food into our Sandy soil.  It passes through the sand to fertilize the vegetation in Brazil.  We are feeding it from the other side.

Now, if we could get the people of Uruguay to water their lawns we here in the Mohave Desert could be in a lush environment. Does oil fracking in Oklahoma result in more oil wells in Argentina ?

[Pluggy]

Well, Meathead,  it would be decent of them to give it a try.

[The emperor has no clothes]

You know, come to think of it. When I was young and in the Navy and we sailed across the equator, it definitely seemed like a sharp turn. Also, maybe those Polliwog initiations were a diversion to keep us from realizing we were about to go over the edge. I always knew my Chief was diabolical. 

[..]

The Earth is flat, but not two-dimensional.  Earth is a disc.  What those schoolbooks call the Equator is the edge of the disc, and on the opposite side of us (in the USA) is Brazil.  This is proven by the lush vegetation of the Amazon.  People in North Carolina put tons of lawn food into our Sandy soil.  It passes through the sand to fertilize the vegetation in Brazil.  We are feeding it from the other side.

I like it 

[Gavin_Sons]

You know, come to think of it. When I was young and in the Navy and we sailed across the equator, it definitely seemed like a sharp turn. Also, maybe those Polliwog initiations were a diversion to keep us from realizing we were about to go over the edge. I always knew my Chief was diabolical. 

There is no way you can go over the edge. Everyone knows there are huge walls all the way around the earth. If not the ocean water would all spill off the edges.

[Pluggy]

There is no way you can go over the edge. Everyone knows there are huge walls all the way around the earth. If not the ocean water would all spill off the edges.
[/quote]

The latest discoveries support that... to some extent.  Experts think of the edge of Earth to be more like a dam than a wall.  It can retain water when needed, but you can also roll over it.

[The emperor has no clothes]

There is no way you can go over the edge. Everyone knows there are huge walls all the way around the earth. If not the ocean water would all spill off the edges.

The latest discoveries support that... to some extent.  Experts think of the edge of Earth to be more like a dam than a wall.  It can retain water when needed, but you can also roll over it.
[/quote]So......I take it from these responses that you are serious about these claims ? I’ve never actually encountered a “flat earther” before. I assumed they were a mythical creature.

[Patrick]

The Earth is flat, but not two-dimensional.  Earth is a disc.  What those schoolbooks call the Equator is the edge of the disc, and on the opposite side of us (in the USA) is Brazil.  This is proven by the lush vegetation of the Amazon.  People in North Carolina put tons of lawn food into our Sandy soil.  It passes through the sand to fertilize the vegetation in Brazil.  We are feeding it from the other side.

Now, if we could get the people of Uruguay to water their lawns we here in the Mohave Desert could be in a lush environment. Does oil fracking in Oklahoma result in more oil wells in Argentina ?

I don't think it would work that way. Isn't Uruguay on the bottom, so wouldn't the water from the lawns just fall down into space.

[Patrick]

For the love of all that is holy, I'm hoping you're trolling/joking.....

LOL, where the heck do you find this stuff.

[Davemn]

Nobody on this board, including me, is smart enough to fully understand the climate change questions.  Unless you have a PhD in climatology and even then that’s questionable as these experts disagree. All of your opinions are politically based. Anyone can find 50 so called “Scientists “ to support your opinion. “I read this, I read that” blah blah blah. Stick to something you know......car tires and oil!
Of course this is just my opinion and yours likely will be different.

Every state you made with the notable exception of the last is incorrect.   

I didn’t know you had a PhD in any scientific field. Do tell?

LOL!  I can't type, though.  State should be statement.  Would my PhD make a difference to you?  You already pointed out that those "experts" disagree.   

My state almost went Trump  last election if that’s what you’re referring to. I have never voted for any Democrat in my life and I never will. My statement about nobody on this board is smart enough (including me) to know about the human effects of are climate still stands. Those outspoken on either side of the subject are only making political statements. Imagine political statements on a motorcycle message board.The planet is 4 billion yrs old. We just don’t know enough. I would listen with an open mind to anyone with credible knowledge on the subject.

[carolinarider09]

What happens when a premise is stated and backed up by reasonable facts and information and those against the premise have no similar information to support an opposing view?

The opposition turns to satire and humor.  The satire and humor are intended to make the original premise "laughable".  Therefore the original premise is not ligitament. 

The premise that mankind can have and has had a major impact on the earth's climate is lubricous. 

But, just for a moment, thats accept the premise that man is a major contributor to climate change specifically by the production of the so-called greenhouse gas, Carbon Dioxide (CO2). 

Then every one of you that believes this, supports this theory/premise must take steps to reduce your CO2 production.  Therefore, if you are a believer you are a hypocrite if you do any of the following (since you are contributing to the production of CO2. In other words, "Actions Speak Louder than Words".)

You cannot use a vehicle that has an internal combustion engine (car, truck, motorcycle).
You cannot use a vehicle that is battery powered unless that battery is charged by an energy source that does not rely on a fossil fuel.
You cannot power your house from the grid unless that gird is powered by an energy source that does not rely on a fossil fuel or, if you are "off the grid" you cannot have the "grid" as a backup power source.
You cannot travel by air or rail or bus or sea unless the power source for that travel does not rely on a fossil fuel.

And these are just a few of the things that come to mind. 

[0leman]

It should also be noted that the Climate Crises folks meet once a year to come up with solutions to non-existent problems.  Flying 100's of folks to a meeting in various parts of the world when they could/should be their meetings over the internet.  They individually create more greenhouse gases than most of use do in several years.   Yeah, hypocrites. 

[hubcapsc]

Then every one of you that believes this, supports this theory/premise must take steps to reduce your CO2 production.

I believe it. All this greenhouse gas stuff is just an obfuscated way of saying "pollution"... we've polluted the heck
out of a lot of things, especially including the air. 100,000 years after we're gone, though, you won't even
be able to tell we were here. I aim to continue driving cars and motorcycles and heating my house. I live
down the road from the nucular plant, so my all-electric house (not that all the power on the grid that flows
into my house came from the nucular plan) reduces my CO2 production  ...

A lot of places in South Carolina are nice and green and forested now, 100 years ago we
had all the forests cut down and were planting cotton everywhere trying to make a dime and
all our top soil has eroded into the Atlantic ocean... you ought to see some of the gullies down
in my woods (and all over the state)...

-Mike

[..]

Then every one of you that believes this, supports this theory/premise must take steps to reduce your CO2 production.

I believe it. All this greenhouse gas stuff is just an obfuscated way of saying "pollution"... we've polluted the heck
out of a lot of things, especially including the air. 100,000 years after we're gone, though, you won't even
be able to tell we were here. I aim to continue driving cars and motorcycles and heating my house. I live
down the road from the nucular plant, so my all-electric house (not that all the power on the grid that flows
into my house came from the nucular plan) reduces my CO2 production  ...

A lot of places in South Carolina are nice and green and forested now, 100 years ago we
had all the forests cut down and were planting cotton everywhere trying to make a dime and
all our top soil has eroded into the Atlantic ocean... you ought to see some of the gullies down
in my woods (and all over the state)...

-Mike

No gulllies. No free deck 

[Serk]

It's the good old moving goalposts trick...



Should we find ways to cut back on pollution? Sure...

Oh, now they'll just declare CO2 a pollutant and demand more government intervention and theft in our lives to change the weather.

Nope.

BS. Utter and complete bollocks.

It's just a scam excuse to transfer wealth away from the western world and assert more government control over our everyday lives.

[98valk]

from the book The Greening, which can be read here.  https://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/greening.shtml

In 1967, a little book of just over 100 pages was published by Dial Press. The thoroughly innocuous title was Report From Iron Mountain on the Possibility and Desirability of Peace. Leonard C. Lewin, who wrote the introduction, describes the circumstances of the book's publication as follows:
"Lasting peace, while not theoretically impossible, is probably unattainable; even if it could be achieved it would almost certainly not be in the best interests of a stable society to achieve it."

"That is the gist of what they say. Behind their qualified academic language runs this general argument: War fills certain functions essential to the stability of our society; until other ways of filling them are developed, the war system must be maintained -- and improved in effectiveness."

After exploring a whole range of "substitute" possibilities, such as a war on poverty, space research, even "the credibility of an out-of- our-world invasion threat," the Special Study Group reports and Doe recites." It may be, for instance, that gross pollution of the environment can eventually replace the possibility of mass destruction by nuclear weapons as the principal apparent threat to the survival of the species. Poisoning of the air, and of the principal sources of food and water supply, is already well advanced, and at first glance would seem promising in this respect; it constitutes a threat that can be dealt with only through social organization and political power. But from present indications it will be a generation to a generation- and-a-half before environmental pollution, however severe, will be sufficiently menacing, on a global scale, to offer a possible basis for a solution."

I hope you didn't skim over the preceding paragraph. It explains, with almost unbelievable boldness, that environmental concerns were an almost perfect replacement for war, but it would take a generation or a generation-and-a-half (that is, 20 to 30 years) to bring this about. Remember, we are talking about a report circa 1967.

The time frame is now complete, as evidenced by an article in the March 20, 1990, Seattle Post-Intelligencer. The front-page headline says, "Pollution a 'ticking time bomb,' conference warned." Datelined Vancouver, B.C., the lead paragraph read, "Environmental destruction is a 'ticking time bomb' that poses a 'more absolute' threat to human survival than nuclear annihilation during the Cold War, former Norwegian Prime Minister Gro Harlem Brundtland told an international environment conference here."

[hubcapsc]

No gulllies. No free deck  

We enjoy that thing almost every day  



-Mike

[Gavin_Sons]

What happens when a premise is stated and backed up by reasonable facts and information and those against the premise have no similar information to support an opposing view?

The opposition turns to satire and humor.  The satire and humor are intended to make the original premise "laughable".  Therefore the original premise is not ligitament. 

The premise that mankind can have and has had a major impact on the earth's climate is lubricous. 

But, just for a moment, thats accept the premise that man is a major contributor to climate change specifically by the production of the so-called greenhouse gas, Carbon Dioxide (CO2). 

Then every one of you that believes this, supports this theory/premise must take steps to reduce your CO2 production.  Therefore, if you are a believer you are a hypocrite if you do any of the following (since you are contributing to the production of CO2. In other words, "Actions Speak Louder than Words".)

You cannot use a vehicle that has an internal combustion engine (car, truck, motorcycle).
You cannot use a vehicle that is battery powered unless that battery is charged by an energy source that does not rely on a fossil fuel.
You cannot power your house from the grid unless that gird is powered by an energy source that does not rely on a fossil fuel or, if you are "off the grid" you cannot have the "grid" as a backup power source.
You cannot travel by air or rail or bus or sea unless the power source for that travel does not rely on a fossil fuel.

And these are just a few of the things that come to mind. 

Thank you for your ideas.  (Sorry if my humor offended you.)  What you state about greenhouse gas reduction are the ideals.  Can we all do this tomorrow?  Of course not.  But we can learn and make better choices.  I see 40 cars lined up to pick up kids at our local school.  40 Moms sitting in parked cars with engine on and the AC running.  Does this make sense?  Does anyone walk to school?  40 kids on one bus makes some sense.  I saw how man-made pollution wrecked the Chesapeake Bay.  If we make the right choices we won't be doing that to other parts of the planet.

We live 20 miles from my kids school. I sit in line with my truck running and AC cranked. And you ride a Valkyrie apparently. Not a very good choice of motorcycle since you are so conscious about our environment.  You probably should be driving a Tesla instead of being a hypocrite on here.

[Bighead]

Gavin only if he charges it with solar power.