Tires or too much torque?

[CoreyP]

Had a little fun today took my new to me Valkyrie out in the rain to see how it did.

I'm running Avon Cobra tires which are about 10 years old. Plenty of tread but old. No weird wear or any problems with the tread.

From a stop light I took a left turn and when straight shifted into 2nd gear and gave it a decent amount of gas. I didn't rev it out or anything like that. Result of that was my back tire broke traction and fishtailed to the right side. No problem, didn't last long and I straighten it back out. After that I started screwing around with back braking etc. The idea is to see what this bike and tires do in the rain.  Back brakes didn't lock up very easily or really any other noticeable loss of traction.

My question is should I get new tires because they are losing their grip or does the Valkyrie put out enough toque that I just have to be real gentle on the throttle in the rain?  I've been riding bikes since the late 70's so I'm not clueless about the rain or other less traction situations. 

I've never had a bike that puts out so much torque in such low RPM's.  The only cruiser I have owned up to this point is a 1100 Shadow which works well in the rain. I run Pirelli Night Dragons on that bike. Brand new right after I bought that bike. Those tires work well in all situations BTW.

I'm thinking the tires are fine but I need to be more careful in the rain?

[John Schmidt]

Regardless of the amount of tread left, those tires are 10 yrs. old and need replacing. Frankly, I'd go with a car tire in back and a new m/c tire in front. You'll be amazed at the difference in grip with the c/t, especially when braking. It just seems to squat and grab.

[ridingron]

I just put new tires on my I'state. Avon Chrome. An expense tough to swallow. I really like the way it handles! I seriously considered a car tire, but .... Maybe I'll try that for Asheville next year. The tires and an oil change made it almost seem like a new bike. Shifts smooth and handles great!

[..]

Water on road will cause traction loss.

KEEP OFF THE ROAD PAINT!!!

[hubcapsc]

I liked Venoms. And Cobras. And I like the Cobra Chromes I just put on.
Too much time has passed for me to know if I like any of them more than
the other...

-Mike

[wirral_biker]

May have simply been ingrained oil coming up to the road surface ( plus a tadsworth of healthy throttle  ).  Tyres are a little old but I'd enjoy them a bit longer ( may need scrubbing in if not used much lately )
before the expense of a new tyre.  Fit recommended tyre and size etc when the time comes.

[Valkpilot]

Those are normally good tires in the rain. Based on age, I'd bet the compound has hardened and they aren't as grippy anymore

[CoreyP]

Water on road will cause traction loss.

KEEP OFF THE ROAD PAINT!!!

No paint or anything else where the tire fishtailed on me. It hadn't rained that much so there could have been some oil. The intersection is crowned and I was headed away from the crown so it was a good place for oil/etc. to be dropping off of cars. 

[F6Dave]

Water on road will cause traction loss.

KEEP OFF THE ROAD PAINT!!!

No kidding.  They recently repainted the stripes on the state highway near my place.  And to make it more treacherous, they sprinkled reflective stuff (appeared to be tiny glass beads) all over the fresh paint.  I happened to be making a slow turn over one of those stripes.  Even though the paint was dry, those beads made it more slippery than ice.  Thankfully the stripe was only a few inches wide.

[Barnstormer]

Too much torque.  Never give a valk too much throttle when going around a corner.  I sold my son one of my valks and it only took two weeks for him to crash it and the pavement was dry.  He knew what caused the accident even though I had warned him never hit the throttle until he was going straight.

[Jess from VA]

Never give a valk too much throttle when going around a corner.

And just how much throttle must take into account the road surface (sand, oily, dirt, gas, gravel, wet), and your tire's condition (and temperature), and just how tight the turn is.

And this is for both hard throttle AND braking.  I've broken loose my back end badly with worn tread (though not toast) bike-rear-tires, and HOT tires after a long ride on a hot summer day.    And I did it with both throttle and hard braking, in a turn.  I've had the back end try to pass the front end, which is cause for some excitement.  The usual remedy is to drop the throttle AND brakes, and the bike straightens right out.

Since switching to car tires, it has never happened again, although car tires will hop or jump around on occasion, they don't break traction, unless you want them to on a loose or wet surface.

I like going fast, but a good practice is to make your turns at reasonable throttle, then bang the throttle once you are (mostly) straight and level.

And if you have to brake hard in a slippery turn, do the same thing, but straighten the bike up, even if it means heading to the wrong side of the road (if no cars are there), then get back on track after a hard  slow down.  You can stop a lot faster and harder (and safer) straight and level than all leaned over.

 

[CoreyP]

Took the bike out again in the rain, I'm buying some new tires.

I want to change out the valve stems for metal ones, looks like this bike has rubber OEM's of unknown age.

As far as new ones anyone know what size I need? Looks like .453" 11mm? Is that right?

[Ken aka Oil Burner]

Yes; they are the common 11.3mm or .453" size. A lot of people here have purchased these from Rocky Mountain ATV. They are made by Myers, which is a well known quality supplier.

45 degree angle: https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/tires-and-wheels/myers-45%C2%B0-tubeless-chrome-valve-stem-p

90 degree angle:  https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/tires-and-wheels/myers-90%C2%B0-tubeless-chrome-valve-stem-p

The little "stand" on the wheel may need to be clearanced a bit due to interference with a metal 90 degree stem. It was only needed with the factory rubber stems.

[Jess from VA]

You can get cheaper ones, but not better ones.  Unlike the oe rubber ones, these can be aired up one handed, and no bending.

These lay flat on the rims.  You have to cut or grind the T's off the OE wheels to orient them to the high side, where they belong.  No problem, you're never going back to OE stems anyway.

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/bike-master-90-degree-valve-stems

[Willow]

Patchboy at $1.86 each.  No change required required to the "T" on Valkyrie wheels.

Link to Patchboy 90 degree .453

[cookiedough]

yah,  10 years old and rubber straight valve stems, time to get metal 90 degree ones much easier to put air in and check air pressure as well.

Most cycle tires will slide/slip a bit off the line in 1st or even shifting into 2nd gear with too much throttle response.   I have only been in rain a few times on the Valk and each time my rear tire has broken loose for a split second in mostly 1st but as well 2nd gear just my brain has to comprehend with my body to slow it down some, even newer tires will break loose in the rain, not so much though a rear car tire.

Yah,  10 years old time to replace tires IMO.  My 250cc scooter had 10+ or so year old OEM Kenda tires plenty of tread left able to go 2-3 more years even sidewalls looked pretty good, but could tell they lacked softness and were harder than a newer tire would be.  figured since not going to break the rear or front tire loose on a 250cc,  the new ones will last another 8-10 years so why not do it now for safety sake?

[CoreyP]

You can get cheaper ones, but not better ones.  Unlike the oe rubber ones, these can be aired up one handed, and no bending.

These lay flat on the rims.  You have to cut or grind the T's off the OE wheels to orient them to the high side, where they belong.  No problem, you're never going back to OE stems anyway.

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/bike-master-90-degree-valve-stems

That's what I put on my Shadow but I don't remember spending that much for them. ??? Pretty sure I got them off Amazon.

[CoreyP]

Been reading up on tires and checking which brands actually have my sizes I need.

Heads up for anyone looking for Avon tyres. $60 rebate on two. https://www.avontyres.com/en-us/rewards/

I'm look at the Avon chrome tires from Bike bandit at $458 minus the $60 rebate and about $28 in Bike Bandit rewards. That may be the route I go.

I'm weighing price verses performance and you guys seem to be into the Avon cobra tires. No point in reinventing the wheel so to speak.

[hubcapsc]

There's other good tires, but it is hard to go wrong with Avons... I used Metzeler 880s once,
they were good.

The price you've found with the discounts is as good a deal as I believe you'll find... $425 (free shipping)
on Amazon right now. I paid a little more than that, but I get my tires at the local Suzuki shop now
and bring in my wheels for him to change them - support a friendly local dealer and it is sweet
to watch the tires pop on and off in just a few seconds  ...



-Mike "getting older..."

[Gryphon Rider]

Back brakes didn't lock up very easily...

You should disassemble the brake pedal to clean and lubricate its pivot and other moving parts before reassembling.  You should be able to lock up the rear tire with not more than moderate force, and a freshly lubed pedal makes a big difference.

[old2soon]

        When I purchased My Phatt Ghurl she had fairly new dunflops mounted. The first rain I got into scared the shizzlin drits right outa me. Went D/S shortly there after and there is No amount of money or talk that will git me back on a M/C specific rear tire. My current wally wurld car tire was around 60 bucks out the door. And so far I'm happy with the wally wurld tire. And if yer so inclined you Can drag pegs with a car tire. Look up smokinjoes pictures of him on the Dragon. Reb has some nice pics of the lean angles on a car tire. And YES even a car tire can be over powered by our Valkyries in the rain. After a time or two you learn throttle control. On dry pavement I've brought the front end up on a launch.  Talk bout gittin the H/D riders tenshun!  RIDE SAFE.

[Bagger John - #3785]

I've run the new Dunlops, ME880s and Avon Cobras on all of my Valkyries (in no particular order) when their OEM rubber wore out.

Depending on the bike's state of tune, it was/is easy to break any of these rear tires loose under hard 2nd-gear acceleration on perfectly dry pavement. Carrying a passenger or lots of luggage tends to minimize the likelihood, though. 

This bike still requires a bit of rider skill in order to keep things upright, pointed straight and undamaged. Contrast it to, say, a 2010-up Concours...which basically thinks for the rider. And later-model mounts such as the Super Adventure 1290 abstract the rider from the equation even more.

[Skinhead]

There's other good tires, but it is hard to go wrong with Avons... I used Metzeler 880s once,
they were good.

The price you've found with the discounts is as good a deal as I believe you'll find... $425 (free shipping)
on Amazon right now. I paid a little more than that, but I get my tires at the local Suzuki shop now
and bring in my wheels for him to change them - support a friendly local dealer and it is sweet
to watch the tires pop on and off in just a few seconds  ...



-Mike "getting older..."

That photo reminds me of a monkey fornicating with a football.

[CoreyP]

I got the tires tonight and installed the front tire. Chrome 90 degree valve as well. Unknown if the tire was actually balanced well, it is now.

What I didn't notice before was the tire had a flat spot on it. Looks like this bike sat for a while on it's kick stand and didn't move. Probably a 6 inch maybe smaller flat spot on the front tire. Trick or treat tonight so I didn't have time for a ride, I'm betting the bike will feel different getting rid of the flat spot 10 year old front tire. When I turn the tire my garage floor it makes a squeaky noise now. 

I also bought a back tire but for an experiment I want to see if the bike feels real different with a new front tire. I'm going to go for a decent size ride to break the new tire in. I really can't see if the rear tire has a flat spot or I'm just not willing to put in the time. With saddle bags, fender etc. it's hard to figure out what is going on but I assume the back probably has a flat spot as well?

It kills me to toss the back tire it looks great but I think it may be hard as a rock.

[pancho]

That photo reminds me of a monkey fornicating with a football.4

???  Really..           Now I remember,,  unmoderated comments like that caused me to stop hanging out around here. Valkyrie forum? I guess it's not what it used to be.

[hubcapsc]

That photo reminds me of a monkey fornicating with a football.4

???  Really..           Now I remember,,  unmoderated comments like that caused me to stop hanging out around here. Valkyrie forum? I guess it's not what it used to be.

Sinkhead's my pal, so it is not some random Internet troll thing if that's what
is troubling...

-Mike

[pancho]

That photo reminds me of a monkey fornicating with a football.4

???  Really..           Now I remember,,  unmoderated comments like that caused me to stop hanging out around here. Valkyrie forum? I guess it's not what it used to be.

Sinkhead's my pal, so it is not some random Internet troll thing if that's what
is troubling...

-Mike

Well, maybe...  I guess we each have our opinions on what is appropriate comments and content for the Tech Board of a motorcycle forum.
You need to remember that we are the remnants of something that was much larger and interactive in it's heyday.  I'd hate to see it degrade further as there will always be someone who comes across an old Valkyrie and sees it for what it was and needs some help to get it on the road...  he will come here as long as it is a viable resource.           Isn't that what this is about?

[Bighead]

I think you may be the only one that took that statement wrong and didnt grin when you read it. He was teasing in good fun from the way I read it.

[wirral_biker]

I think you may be the only one that took that statement wrong and didnt grin when you read it. He was teasing in good fun from the way I read it.

Agreed 

Lighten up Pancho !!

[CoreyP]

This isn't exactly tea with the ladies, wouldn't hurt to lighten it up.

[Two wheel willie]

Hey everyone. Didn't mean any harm with that silly statement.
Truth is, I don't own a chevy.

[pancho]

I think you may be the only one that took that statement wrong and didnt grin when you read it. He was teasing in good fun from the way I read it.

I don't know about that, but I was certainly the only one that opened my mouth and said something. I know we are all big boys here,, some much bigger than others,, but as time goes on I find my values getting much more Conservative. I guess I was in "one of those moments" and saw SKINHEAD bullying hubcapsc....  (don't know either one of you guys)   yeah, I'm the one that would probably jump in if I saw you getting toasted by a gang of thugs and get beat up with you,  HA .      I guess some things just don't need to be said

[The emperor has no clothes]

I think you may be the only one that took that statement wrong and didnt grin when you read it. He was teasing in good fun from the way I read it.

I don't know about that, but I was certainly the only one that opened my mouth and said something. I know we are all big boys here,, some much bigger than others,, but as time goes on I find my values getting much more Conservative. I guess I was in "one of those moments" and saw SKINHEAD bullying hubcapsc....  (don't know either one of you guys)   yeah, I'm the one that would probably jump in if I saw you getting toasted by a gang of thugs and get beat up with you,  HA .      I guess some things just don't need to be said

I understand what you are saying. But, being that you are not on the General Board much has put you at a disadvantage. Skinhead would NEVER disparage hubcapsc. They are friends for many years.

Now, if Joe references me and fornication there would be reason for concern. 

[hubcapsc]

Pancho's a good guy, we've traded parts and he's built a great looking Valkyrie.
This has just been a misunderstanding, and I'm real lucky that there's folks who
will stick up for me...

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

Pancho's a good guy, we've traded parts and he's built a great looking Valkyrie.
This has just been a misunderstanding, and I'm real lucky that there's folks who
will stick up for me...

-Mike

He has done some quality stuff to his bike.  I hope this misunderstanding doesn't deter him from posting more of his work.

[pancho]

I think you may be the only one that took that statement wrong and didnt grin when you read it. He was teasing in good fun from the way I read it.

I don't know about that, but I was certainly the only one that opened my mouth and said something. I know we are all big boys here,, some much bigger than others,, but as time goes on I find my values getting much more Conservative. I guess I was in "one of those moments" and saw SKINHEAD bullying hubcapsc....  (don't know either one of you guys)   yeah, I'm the one that would probably jump in if I saw you getting toasted by a gang of thugs and get beat up with you,  HA .      I guess some things just don't need to be said

I understand what you are saying. But, being that you are not on the General Board much has put you at a disadvantage. Skinhead would NEVER disparage hubcapsc. They are friends for many years.

Now, if Joe references me and fornication there would be reason for concern. 

Well, maybe I should have known that anyone who would have Steelers emblems on their bike, (my home town area) would not be bullying in public, even if they go by the handle of Skinhead...  ...  but I said what I said, hopefully there are no hard feelings.