Sliding into an Intersection in Rusk

[tonybluegoat]

Yesterday I rode from Palestine to Louisiana just to get out. On the way back it started misting more than raining. About 15 minutes into it I rode into downtown Rusk.  There's a 4 way stop at the courthouse. I really don't think I was going too fast, but to be honest I never rode in the rain with my other bikes. When I started braking (light pressure on the back to transfer weight to the front brake then I put pressure on the front brake). The instant I put pressure on the back brake the rear wheel locked up and the bike started coming around (as they are prone to do in that situation.) I released the rear brake.

I decided it would be a bad idea to apply pressure to the front brake at that point. Either the front tire would have started sliding too (and down I go) or the front tire would have had traction and I would have high-sided albeit at a very low speed.   Instead I kept my eyes up and evaluated the situation, laid on the horn and moved through the intersection. Luckily I was the only one there, and it was a 4 way stop.

I did instinctively put my feet down (not great technique) but they slipped on the road like it was ice. That particular piece of road with the light mist was just a tar sealed, oil covered, slip-n-slide.

I don't like "close calls" even when there is no other traffic. I was wearing a full helmet, jacket, gloves and jeans. Next time I'll be more aware of the actual road surface and position myself where there is the best traction available instead of just assuming I can stop - even at low speed - at the beginning of rain.

Thoughts? Thanks.

[hubcapsc]

I did the slip and slide on a really wide really long section
of yellow lines painted on the road once right as the rain
started. Valkyries are better when they're not out of control...

-Mike

[cookiedough]

I did an over 30 degree angle power slide doing 60 mph on dry pavement this year down to around 20 mph 1st time EVER in well over 20 years of riding cycles when the car in front slammed on his brakes for deer crossing right in front of him.  Locked up the rear brake 1st time EVER at that speed and luckily as soon as I totally let out off both brakes barely missing the rear bumper of car in front,  I instantly straightened right up and darn near threw me off the bike me being 285lbs. and no flyweight.  It was an oh -hit moment for sure. 

I was pretty far behind 3-4 second following distance but must not have seen the car in front brake lights go on or the deer very quickly and hard. 

I thought I was going to go down for sure all happened in less than 3 seconds.  It was almost like instant whiplash from being angled over on the bike to instant upright and feeling very light in the seat at the end. 

[bassman]

Could it have been the oils and chemicals on the road at the intersection becoming excessively slippery due to the mist/rain? 

[Disco]

Could it have been the oils and chemicals on the road at the intersection becoming excessively slippery due to the mist/rain? 

This is exactly it.  The first few minutes of rain / mist are the most dangerous, especially if it has not rained for a while. 

[..]

Could it have been the oils and chemicals on the road at the intersection becoming excessively slippery due to the mist/rain? 

This is exactly it.  The first few minutes of rain / mist are the most dangerous, especially if it has not rained for a while. 

 

[Jess from VA]

The other thing this story brings to my mind Tony is that you must be (extra) gentle on the brakes in rain or other slippery conditions.  And you don't power up to stops, you roll up to them.

Most of the time I've slid my back tire (dry and wet) I've let something (or someone) sneak up on me and my instinct to brake right away gets me too aggressive on the brakes.  Whoops.

And it's absolutely true that the first few minutes of rain (or longer if it's a mist or fog or light rain) activates the oils and slippery things in road surfaces, and you must always keep that in mind.

And one more thing.  Cold weather makes tires slippery until warmed up.  Despite having experienced a slip and slide just as I'm rolling out to a ride in cold weather several times, I forget every fall, and I slid my rear (car) tire just last week (and I rarely slide a car tire).  Unless you are like Jeff and keep your bike in the living room (in Florida), those tires are slippery all by themselves on cold days (on cold roads).

[Crackerborn]

A light rain will leave oil on the road surface that a toad strangler washes off. The slight dew in mornings are also bad news if the roads have not been washed by a good rain in a while. Also the tires you have on the Lady will make a big difference in wet conditions.  High mileage tires often are terrible in wet road conditions.

 Tires and oil are two topics that seldom reach a unified consensus. And then there is always the darkside option for tires.

I drove I-80 through Nebraska, Iowa and a large portion of Illinois under a continuous rain cloud with no traction issues last summer. Visibility, on the other hand, was less than stellar especially when a tractor trailer rig was in front of me.

[tonybluegoat]

Good replies.  I posed this to a super MSF trainer, bilke control, dude.  He said, "When it's like that I pull in somewhere and wait until the road grime gets washed off." Seems like the simplest answer is always the most correct.

It's like a practical self defense course I took once.  "What do you do when you see some dangerous, sketchy guys on  the street your walking down?"  It gave a bunch of options like "put your hand on your gun" etc.  The correct answer was, "Don't go down that street."

But it was the oils on the road, for sure. The tire didn't even try to stop.  It immediately locked up. My inexperience in the rain put me right on the oil spot part of the road - where all the cars stop and drip.  And I could have started the stop 100 feet sooner just to be safe. However, that spot was so slick I'm not sure if I wouldn't have fallen over if I had stopped correctly and put my foot down just to have it slip out from under me.

Thanks for the deer story. I live in deer country.  I'm always watching for deer but I never thought that the car in front of me might jam on the brakes because of one. I plan on riding a lot more so I need to up my game.

The tires are worn but not overly worn. I'll be replacing them in the Spring.  I think I'll go with high traction even if it compromises miles.  Cheaper to replace tires more often than it is to replace the bike, my leg, my shoulder, my jacket, my gloves and my helmet even once.

[Jess from VA]

If you know it's slippery (already slipped) but must stop the best you can, you can feather (quickly but gently tap) the brakes like manual ABS to stay in a straight line.

And as always, even gently, more on the front than the rear.  Front wheel slides are not that bad as long as you are going straight ahead.  It's when the back tries to pass the front that things get interesting.   

[tonybluegoat]

A light rain will leave oil on the road surface that a toad strangler washes off. The slight dew in mornings are also bad news if the roads have not been washed by a good rain in a while. Also the tires you have on the Lady will make a big difference in wet conditions.  High mileage tires often are terrible in wet road conditions.

 Tires and oil are two topics that seldom reach a unified consensus. And then there is always the darkside option for tires.

I drove I-80 through Nebraska, Iowa and a large portion of Illinois under a continuous rain cloud with no traction issues last summer. Visibility, on the other hand, was less than stellar especially when a tractor trailer rig was in front of me.

I had no issues on highways, etc.  It seems like they are engineered for traction.  These small towns, on the other hand.  Nachogdoches has cobblestones.  Very quaint and very slick. This particular section wasn't even asphalt it was tar.  I really haven't ridden in the rain, so hopefully the learning curve will be gentle and upright without any collisions.  Slow, slow, slow.

[John Schmidt]

I try to never ride in the center of the lane, that's where the oil discharge and covering is the greatest.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I try to never ride in the center of the lane, that's where the oil discharge and covering is the greatest.

+1, it’s also where all the nails, screws, etc. seem to accumulate.

[Gizmo]

These stories are nuggets of life-saving proportions. How often do we read something like this, no matter how small, and then go "oh yeah" in our head,  we ask ourselves how we would have handled it and then remind ourselves to be more aware in the future.

Thanks for sharing @tonybluegoat

[Willow]

... When I started braking (light pressure on the back to transfer weight to the front brake then I put pressure on the front brake) ...

Good advice on braking gently and staying out of the middle of the lane.

I'm troubled by the reasoning of applying the rear brake first to transfer weight.  I just don't see it could work that way.  Perhaps someone smarter than I can explain it.

As to advice from your MSF friend, it may be safest to not ride in those conditions but it is best to develop your skills to manage in adverse conditions.  You won't if you always avoid them and one day you may be forced into those conditions unprepared.

[Chrisj CMA]

You asked. I have two observations:

First as Willow said. I don’t think you are going to transfer any weight by tapping the rear brake. In fact we use the rear brake in parking lot speed turns BECAUSE it DOESN'T transfer the weight and cause the front to drop 

Second.  You must have used more than light pressure to get the wheel to lock or else there’s something dangerously wrong with your rear brake.

Get used to the front brakes. They are the primary shopping force and using them DOES transfer weight to the front. It takes a lot of practice to switch  from defaulting to the fronts instead of the rear but that practice could save your life some day

 

[Moonshot_1]

You asked. I have two observations:

First as Willow said. I don’t think you are going to transfer any weight by tapping the rear brake. In fact we use the rear brake in parking lot speed turns BECAUSE it DOESN'T transfer the weight and cause the front to drop 

Second.  You must have used more than light pressure to get the wheel to lock or else there’s something dangerously wrong with your rear brake.

Get used to the front brakes. They are the primary shopping force and using them DOES transfer weight to the front. It takes a lot of practice to switch  from defaulting to the fronts instead of the rear but that practice could save your life some day

 

Agree with the assessment that the rear brake does not "transfer" weight.

As to light pressure on the rear to lock up, doesn't take much to lock the rear up. Even less when slick and slippery. From what was described I'd see no dangerous issues with the rear brake.

[..]

https://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-braking-tips/

[tonybluegoat]

You asked. I have two observations:

First as Willow said. I don’t think you are going to transfer any weight by tapping the rear brake. In fact we use the rear brake in parking lot speed turns BECAUSE it DOESN'T transfer the weight and cause the front to drop 

Second.  You must have used more than light pressure to get the wheel to lock or else there’s something dangerously wrong with your rear brake.

Get used to the front brakes. They are the primary shopping force and using them DOES transfer weight to the front. It takes a lot of practice to switch  from defaulting to the fronts instead of the rear but that practice could save your life some day

 

Certainly possible.  More practice needed particularly in the wet.

Thanks

[sheets]

Some pavement markings are paint while some are a form of extruded plastic. The plastic versions are much thicker - and much slicker when wet - than the paint type. No way to tell the difference to the casual observer behind bars while at speed or in the midst of a maneuver. Best to avoid traversing over any pavement markings (including yellow lines) if avoidable. Dodge the pavement markings, along with wet manhole covers and crack-sealing material (wet, or on a hot day) at every opportunity.
(words of wisdom from an old highway worker who use to seal the cracks and paint the lines and stencil the arrows and such on the roadway).     

[Valkpilot]

+1 on applying front, not rear, brakes first and gently with increasing force front and rear.

+1 on slippery conditions immediately after a rain starts.

And...consider the possibility that a nearly 20 year old bike that only has 33,000 miles on it because it's been sitting has tires that have hardened and don't grip like new.

[Pappy!]

Only thing I will add to the correct answers of staying out of the center of the lane due to oil accumulation there and front brake is that you may do a bit of research into a Car Tire on the back as well at some point. They do have a tendency to keep the bike more upright with a rear brake lock-up. Wet stopping distances seem to be shorter and with a bit more of a secure feeling as well.
This is my opinion and that of many others as well. Not looking to divert the thread into a car tire $hi_ storm! lol

[RainMaker]

What brand of tires do you have on the bike?  Can you find the date code and tell us what it is?

[9Ball]

If you plan on riding this winter, even only occasionally, then why wait until spring to get new tires.

It seems like now is the best time.  You won’t have to wait long to get the new tires mounted and it’s a great time for you to inspect and maintain your final drive and drive shaft.  I get frequent emails for discount shipping and OEM parts discounts every day now.

My advice is do it now...

[tonybluegoat]

If you plan on riding this winter, even only occasionally, then why wait until spring to get new tires.

It seems like now is the best time.  You won’t have to wait long to get the new tires mounted and it’s a great time for you to inspect and maintain your final drive and drive shaft.  I get frequent emails for discount shipping and OEM parts discounts every day now.

My advice is do it now...

Can I borrow $500?  I just spent all my cash on a Valkarie.  I'll have more free money in the Spring. I agree that new tires are better.

[9Ball]

Sure, what’s your collateral?

[tonybluegoat]

[SpidyJ]

Don't ever ride behind a truck pulling a backhoe on a trailer if it's leaking diesel fuel.
 

[9Ball]

You wouldn’t use your kids (buckling or doeling) for collateral...they’re part of the family.  On the other hand, we do have a bunch of poison ivy to get rid of permanently.