Can't get over 4,500rpm in gear

[Ricky-D]

Valker asks a very cogent question and it's definitely something that should be looked at now you've identified the problem cylinder.

***

[Morse]

Some good news.  Turned #4 mixture screw out 3/4 turn and cleared up the backfire.  Turned out I had little backfires from the brake side too, turned them all out until the popping stopped.  I'm used to my yamaha Venture which won't even backfire to let me know I lost a vacuum cap, let alone to tell me the mixture is wrong (have to go by gas mileage).  Runs smooth now and I can feel the huge power this thing has, pretty exhilarating.   

I gave it a little longer ride today, still can't use it for daily transport, most of my riding is highway and it won't go fast enough.  I've got a can of seafoam in the tank for now and will ride it around some to see if the 4,500 rpm cap goes away. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

Some good news.  Turned #4 mixture screw out 3/4 turn and cleared up the backfire.  Turned out I had little backfires from the brake side too, turned them all out until the popping stopped.  I'm used to my yamaha Venture which won't even backfire to let me know I lost a vacuum cap, let alone to tell me the mixture is wrong (have to go by gas mileage).  Runs smooth now and I can feel the huge power this thing has, pretty exhilarating.   

I gave it a little longer ride today, still can't use it for daily transport, most of my riding is highway and it won't go fast enough.  I've got a can of seafoam in the tank for now and will ride it around some to see if the 4,500 rpm cap goes away. 

It seems to me there is something drastically wrong. It's good that you got the pilot screws adjusted to eliminate the popping. Are you sure the diaphragms are in good shape ? Even when I've had my carbs clogged up the issues always were in the bottom end of the powerband.

[mrtlc]

You have checked the intake for air restrictions, and found none. Have you checked to see if a mouse has made a home in your exhaust to block off the air flow. Maybe something rusted off and is blocking the exhaust.  Very strange problem!

[Morse]

I haven't looked into the exhaust.  Might be something in there, even if a piece of baffle broke off and wedged in there strange.  I have stock exhaust and all three pipes on both sides blow even (as well as I can tell with my hand) but I'm pretty sure there are chambers in there where the three pipes mix air so that might not mean much.  I am going to try riding it around with seafoam before I do anything else (besides swap the front shrader valve, which leaks) I have some b-60 heavy duty fuel system cleaner on the way to try too.  Wouldn't hurt to check the exhausts though, they're certainly easy enough to take on and off.

As far as diaphragms go I'm pretty certain there are no holes or tears.  I suspected that too and really went over them on the last tear down, putting a light behind and moving them around.  I did replace one that had gotten stiff and didn't suck up or return like the others. Man those things are expensive.

Also about the compression test, I did do one about a month ago but on a cold engine.  I got 90 all around.  I know to get an accurate reading I need a hot engine and that it should be closer to 170.  I figured then that if they were all the same while cold it was unlikely to have an issue there.  I'll do a hot one though and see what results I get.

[gordonv]

Gordonv - I haven't heard about the second temp sensor.  I was under the impression the I/S ecm was plug and play with an STD but I could easily be wrong.  I've done a little searching on these boards and haven't seen anything on the second temp sensor.   Do you know where I could find some info on it?

Since no one else corrected me, I spent some time looking for what I was thinking of. I found this post from indybobm, in a thread, and I think its what I was thinking of. scroll down to his post.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,106194.0.html

If I've got it right, the early temp sensor was only an on light for being too hot.

The IS has the sensor with a cold range and the too hot. The IS ecm wants to know when the engine is cold.

(note: there, I knew I would/should have been corrected. I'll try to keep this fact more in mind for the future [i didn't want to "update" this post with another addition])

[indybobm]

Gordonv - I haven't heard about the second temp sensor.  I was under the impression the I/S ecm was plug and play with an STD but I could easily be wrong.  I've done a little searching on these boards and haven't seen anything on the second temp sensor.   Do you know where I could find some info on it?

Since no one else corrected me, I spent some time looking for what I was thinking of. I found this post from indybobm, in a thread, and I think its what I was thinking of. scroll down to his post.
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,106194.0.html

If I've got it right, the early temp sensor was only an on light for being too hot.

The IS has the sensor with a cold range and the too hot. The IS ecm wants to know when the engine is cold.

Gordon, since you brought this up. The post that you are referring to only dealt with the coolant light in the tachometer.
Early Valkyries used a temperature sensor that sent a signal to the Temperature Indicator Unit which was connected to the coolant light in the tach and would decide whether or not to turn on the coolant light depending on coolant temperature.
Later Valkyries (both Standards and Interstates) used a different temperature sensor that connected directly to the coolant light.
The temperature sensor that sends a single to the ECM to control advance is the same on all 1997 -2003 Valkyries. Different animal.

[Morse]

Some more info but no real progress:

So I finally got out and took about a 30 mile ride.  I haven't really wanted to risk taking it out much until now because my front schrader valve was held together with what looked like rtv and leaked whenever it went over 30 psi.  I went to replace it today and the stem ripped right off without much effort.  Put a new one on, tire now holds air.

Anyhow what I found after tinkering around on it was that I don't have any power over about 1/4 throttle, less in higher gears, until that point it has a ton of power but if I get beyond 1/4 it has none.  In fact if I go past 1/4 the bike starts to slow down, even if I hold it WOT it just has zero power, feels like I let off the throttle, even as rpms drop into the range where it usually has power, if I'm past about 1/4, there is nothing.

 So i think this is what limits the rpms, in neutral I could never open the throttle that far, I'd probably bend a valve before getting there (or at least hit a rev limiter) but in gear I'm limited to a certain rpm as i hit the point where I need more than 1/4 or so throttle to keep accelerating.

 I'm wondering if my diaphragms could be too hard and aren't sucking up like they're supposed to,  There is one new diaphragm in there and that one is noticeably softer than the others although they all can flip inside out easily and the slides seem to move okay.

I might get some I/S springs and see if that helps but I'd rather soften up the diaphragms (certainly do not want to buy 5 new ones at $80 a pop).  I've heard lemon juice is good but doesn't last.  I've also heard of using DOT 3 to soften them but that worries me.  I don't like getting that stuff on anything it's not absolutely supposed to be on.  I've been looking for good rubber rejuvinators online too and will get one if i see one that looks good.

Does this 1/4 throttle issue sound familiar to anyone or anyone have other ideas than the diaphragms?  I do still need to do a hot compression test.  Haven't had available time in the daylight to do one yet.

   

[hubcapsc]

I look forward to you finding the solution, I bet it won't be a big
deal after you finally find it, I hope it is soon...

because my front schrader valve was held together with what looked like rtv

Now that there is a "normal" Valkyrie problem, and a big one... I hope you changed
out the valve stem with a metal one and not another OEM Honda one...

-Mike

[The emperor has no clothes]

I look forward to you finding the solution, I bet it won't be a big
deal after you finally find it, I hope it is soon...

because my front schrader valve was held together with what looked like rtv

Now that there is a "normal" Valkyrie problem, and a big one... I hope you changed
out the valve stem with a metal one and not another OEM Honda one...

-Mike

Make sure you listen to Mike on this. I would also change the rear tire valve out also. The RTV fix is not a good sign for what ails your bike. Makes me suspect what else the PO might have done.



I think I'd start from scratch looking everything over. Fuel screen, petcock, fuel lines, etc.

[Leathel]

I have only skim read some of the posts so this may have been said?

Cam timing? has that been checked, I don't know how far out that can be and still clear.


Do you have a temp gun. are all the exhausts the same heat?

[..]

I'm not a mechanic.

This thought popped into my teeny brain this afternoon as I was driving my school bus.

Have the timing belts been messed with?

I dunno if it would cause the problem but the idea popped up and I'm sharing it.

[..]

Is my idle thought just complete bollocks?

[indybobm]

How does the bike react when you hit the RPM brick wall? Does it seem like it ran out of fuel? Just as if the ignition was shut off? Fluctuate and flounder?
What happens when the bike slows down below that threshold? does it come back to life as if nothing happened?

Ricky D brought up a good point a number of posts bike about the guy that had spark plug wires crossed.
It does not have to be the actual spark plug wires but it could be the wires coming from the ECM to the coils.

Coil 1&2 has a Yellow/White wire
Coil 3&4 has a Yellow/Blue wire.
Coil 5&6 has a Yellow/Red wire.

Make sure that these are going to the correct coil.

[Morse]

Hey Britman, no it's not a bad idea.  I just went back over the timing a few days ago, really made sure everything was lined up, but all the marks are good.  Used a timing light too.  Everything looked good.  I put the clamp on all the wires and they each lined up with the right mark, which means the wires are going to the right cylinders.  The timing advances nicely too when reved although I'm not sure how much it's supposed to.

Indybobm, what a coincidence you mentioned that, I just went over the wiring to the coils yesterday, no dice, they're right and like I wrote above, they check out with the timing light.  Was really hoping to be on to something with that.

When I hit the limit (1/4 throttle) the power dies.  There is nothing, the bike starts engine braking.  Once the rpms drop it still doesn't come back.  I haven't held it until the bike stops.  I figure I should do that then check to see if the plugs are wet or see when or if the power comes back.  I figure if it were a carb or fuel delivery issue the rpms would stop and hold at top rpm.  That it dies (bike stays on but acts as though no throttle) makes me think it is electrical or an exhaust clog.  I plan to check all the wiring to the ecm to see if anything is grounding out. 

I did check the diaphragms (ran with no airbox). They all moved the same.  Because one is new and they all move the same way I suspect they are all fine.

I double checked the trigger wheel and pulse gens, they seem good, not switched around or TW on backwards or anything.

Checked the exhausts from both ends today (took them off the bike) with an endoscope, no clogs that I can see.

Leathel, the cam timing has been checked, I don't have a temp gun but they are all very close, at least as they heat up, they all get hot at the same rate, don't know about when the bike is warm though.  All too hot to touch, that's for sure.

I did check for spark with an in-line tester.  All checked out.

2 odd things I wanted to mention:

-When I was checking the timing (on a hot engine), if I rev the engine and hold it, about 2.5-4000 rpm I would guess,  the timing advances fine, but every so often the light flashes in the wrong place.  It's just for a moment so I can't see where the crank is but it is in the wrong place, way wrong, not on any mark.  I sort of want to chalk this up to the cheap harbor freight timing light I bought.  Really nothing makes much sense to me on that one unless the pulse gen is reading wrong at high rpm.  My knowledge of pulse gen on the valk though is that they either work or you lose 3 cylinders and nothing in between.

-When I unscrew the coil for 1&2 (the one on the left side above the carbs) I unscrew the big ground connection there.  I have accidentally run the bike a few times with that ground disconnected  and notice no difference.  Should I be noticing anything unusual when it is disconnected? 

[Morse]

Also, yeah I went with the solid metal valve stem.  Checked the back one by yanking it around some.  it's still good.  Will probably swap it out when I take off the back wheel to lube the splines though, it's pretty easy to do with these fat tires.

[Skinhead]

After everything you've done, this sounds like it could potentially be a bad ECM.  I didn't read back through all your posts to see if you had swapped it.  If you have a fellow valker nearby, it would be an easy thing to check.  If you don't I have a spare ECM from my 03 standard I could send you to try out.  

If the ECM checks out, check the target wheel teeth (make sure they are nice sharp edges, no nicks or rounding) and wiring to pulse generators.

[indybobm]

-When I unscrew the coil for 1&2 (the one on the left side above the carbs) I unscrew the big ground connection there.  I have accidentally run the bike a few times with that ground disconnected  and notice no difference.  Should I be noticing anything unusual when it is disconnected?  

I would check the grounds to the coils to make sure that they actually go to ground. You might also connect additional grounds to the coils to see if that helps. Also might check the ground on the pulse generators. I would also check the battery ground to clutch cover and ground between the battery and bike frame. I would think that removing the ground wire from the coil should cause a difference in how the bike runs.
 

[Morse]

Hey Skinhead, yeah I did try swapping the ecm with an I/S one and didn't notice any real change, thanks for the offer of sending one though.  I've looked at the trigger wheel and the teeth look good, the nubs still have sharp edges.

indybobm, that sounds like a good idea. I'll be checking the grounds and wiring over the course of this next week.

[indybobm]

I think that it is important to note that  the motor revs to a lower RPM in each gear. The overall load on the bike increases as you shift into the next gear. As the load increases, it more of a strain on the firing ability of the motor.

[Morse]

I'm checking the ecm plug for grounded out wires.  I found that green grounds (as it should) but so does orange/white and green/white.  is this normal?  I've been trying to look with my manual but I have the pdf and it gets too blurry for me to see the designating letters when I zoom and they're too small if I don't zoom.

[indybobm]

Green/White would be grounded if the side stand is up or the clutch lever is pulled in. The only Orange/White wire I see would be grounded through the Left Front running Light filament.
Back to the coils. Again, I would think that if you remove the ground wire from a coil, it should make a difference in how the engine runs. If it does not, then it might not be actually grounded. You could try to remove the ground from the other two coils to see what effect they have. If a coil is not grounded, it will seek essentially a ground through other places and result in a spark that might not be adequate under a high load condition. Just a guess on my part.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Green/White would be grounded if the side stand is up or the clutch lever is pulled in. The only Orange/White wire I see would be grounded through the Left Front running Light filament.
Back to the coils. Again, I would think that if you remove the ground wire from a coil, it should make a difference in how the engine runs. If it does not, then it might not be actually grounded. You could try to remove the ground from the other two coils to see what effect they have. If a coil is not grounded, it will seek essentially a ground through other places and result in a spark that might not be adequate under a high load condition. Just a guess on my part.

Sounds pretty logical to me. 

[rug_burn]

Yeah, this is a puzzle alright.  ITo me it to sounds like maybe there are a couple problems making it hard to diagnose.   
   The fact that the thing ran fine with the coil ground disconnected is a little weird, but this ground, it looks to me from the schematic, must be on the high voltage side of the coil since the power to the primary side comes through those two wires to each coil.  It could have been arcing without you noticing, or it could be grounded already through the bolts to the frame.   If you disconnect the spark plugs to those cylinders, you can deduce for sure if those cylinders are firing or not.
    But I'd like to hear in more detail how it sounds when it dies at 4500 rpm.  If it misses with a bunch of misfires, but runs okay on the cylinders that aren't missing, that sounds like an electrical problem.   
    If it just kind of starves out with a descending  'whaaaaa----' sound, all cylinders more or less going that way,  that sounds more like a fuel issue.   If it's starving out it would sound like it does when the gas gets low and you need to switch over to reserve.

[tonybluegoat]

Main jets too small or an air leak.   Put bigger main jets in it.

[Leathel]

Green/White would be grounded if the side stand is up or the clutch lever is pulled in. The only Orange/White wire I see would be grounded through the Left Front running Light filament.
Back to the coils. Again, I would think that if you remove the ground wire from a coil, it should make a difference in how the engine runs. If it does not, then it might not be actually grounded. You could try to remove the ground from the other two coils to see what effect they have. If a coil is not grounded, it will seek essentially a ground through other places and result in a spark that might not be adequate under a high load condition. Just a guess on my part.

my coil mount bolts had rusty threads and the coil faces were rusty and that caused and interitten serious miss , certainly somewhere to look for him

[9Ball]

Main jets too small or an air leak.   Put bigger main jets in it.

Definitely something to check....what size main and secondary jets are you using?

Also, without going through the entire thread, are you using a K&N air filter?  Over-oiling could be the problem.  Too much oil blocks the air to the carbs and would cause the starvation symptoms at  higher throttle position.

The problems you describe with popping and stumbling are more typical of a very lean condition, which is the opposite of my thoughts on air filter over-oiling.  Are you certain that the air box has not been modified?  You mentioned plugging a hole in the air box,but have any other modifications been done, such as cutting the inlet?  Also, if you are running a stock air filter then there are rubber gaskets that might be missing.  If you are running K&N filter, then these gaskets need to be removed since the K&N has molded in gaskets.

It seems like you have checked almost everything without finding the source of your problem.  Just throwing out a few more ideas.

Good luck...

[tonybluegoat]

Main jets too small or an air leak.   Put bigger main jets in it.

Definitely something to check....what size main and secondary jets are you using?

Also, without going through the entire thread, are you using a K&N air filter?  Over-oiling could be the problem.  Too much oil blocks the air to the carbs and would cause the starvation symptoms at  higher throttle position.

The problems you describe with popping and stumbling are more typical of a very lean condition, which is the opposite of my thoughts on air filter over-oiling.  Are you certain that the air box has not been modified?  You mentioned plugging a hole in the air box,but have any other modifications been done, such as cutting the inlet?  Also, if you are running a stock air filter then there are rubber gaskets that might be missing.  If you are running K&N filter, then these gaskets need to be removed since the K&N has molded in gaskets.

It seems like you have checked almost everything without finding the source of your problem.  Just throwing out a few more ideas.

Good luck...

 If you have a friend with a Valkarie  who’s willing to do it swap the carb stack.  If you can’t do that then just go bigger  On the main jet. Those jets are cheap you can buy five more sizes and swap them out and see what happens because this sounds 100% like your main Jets are too small we have a major intake air leak.

[Skinhead]

Any Dan Marc or quick connect installed in fuel line?  (Sorry if posted previously, didn't have time to re-read all the posts).

[..]

Not a mechanic and I've not gone back over the previous posts.

Is it possible that an old hose is collapsing as the rpm increases? Restricting air flow would decrease the amount of oxygen.

When my bike started popping I replaced #6
https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/hon/506cb671f870023420a4184b/air-cleaner

Once removed from my bike I could see it had some hairline cracks in it.

[Morse]

I have stock 100 mains and 35 slows, I know for certain that they are clean.  I thought about going up but it just seems like the bike should run fine with stock jets.  Seems more like I'd be bypassing the problem rather than fixing it.  Honestly, at this point, that would be ok to me so long as it ran.

 I'm going to put swapping the mains off for now only because of the way it looses power.  If I WOT I loose all power until the bike drops down to 2000 or so rpms then sort of jerks me back and forth, launching itself forward and engine braking hard, which gets worse the longer I hold the throttle.  Figure if it were too small of mains I would only have so much power and then it would top out and stay there no matter the extra throttle.  Please correct me if I'm wrong on that, i definitely could be.

Pretty certain there's no air leak, I've lost count of the number of starter fluid bottles I've gone through searching for one.

There is no Dan marc or anything in fuel line, just 3/8 hose with no extra slack and no filter, new tank screen, tried 3 different petcocks.  No K&N, brand new OEM air filter, new air box seals, and now have a second (seemingly unmodified) airbox on it.

Leathel, I've been thinking about coil grounds too.  I'm going to try your idea of removing the ground wire and seeing the results, might throw some extra grounds on just to check.

[Morse]

Rug_burn, the way the engine sounds is like it's hitting a rev limiter.  There are no backfires or popping that I notice. The amount of throttle is what kills it.  Anything over 1/4, maybe less.  If the rpms are at 2500, for instance, and I go WOT, I get a tiny surge, maybe half a second of acceleration, then nothing.  I have to ease it up to 4,500, which it will only do in first, then each higher gear it gets a little less in the rpms until in 5th it's right around 3000.  Until it hits that amount of throttle though it has a ton of power.  It even does well if I lug it, went from about ten to sixty pretty quick all in fifth.

To me this is the weirdest part: Once it looses power It does do the whaaa of engine breaking unless I hold the throttle just at the point where the revs stay the highest.  If i do that the bike sounds perfect.  But if I go over that amount of throttle (when testing it I just go to WOT) and hold it the engine kicks back in at about 2000, at that point if I hold the throttle it alternates between power and engine breaking (1/2 second of each) and will really buck me around if I'm in lower gears (does the same thing in higher gears only less noticeable since 5th has less feel of engine braking and get-up-and-go than 1st)

 I should also mention the ends of both my tack and speedo needles are snapped off,  I have to envision where the needle would end at so exact numbers are difficult.  Speedo does not do a good job at telling speed (it's way low) but tach still seems to work.  Odometer is still right.  I would guess the bike maxes out at about 60 mph based on what other cars around me are doing.

Britman, thanks for the info on the hose collapse, I never thought of that.  I have two airboxes and tried them both with no difference.  I'll still look at those hoses though, weirder things have happened than two used parts failing in the same way.

Some other info and things I've tried:

There is a ticking that has something to do with cyl #5, it increases with engine speed.  When I pull the wire to 5, the engine struggles like I'd expect but the ticking stops.  The ticking sounds similar to arcing spark and seems to be coming more from the center of the bike.  I've checked it out in the dark but don't see any arcing.  The tick is slower than the snap of the plug wire though (I would guess at 1/2 the speed since the cyl only fires every other pulse, this being a wasted spark system)

I also did a valve adjustment yesterday.  Gotta love how easy it is to do on these.  All my valves were a little loose (one exhaust let me get a .013in. feeler in there.).  I figure someone did them and adjusted them all on the loose side going with the loose valves are happy valves thing.  With this system of lock nut and screw I figured it was easy to get them right on .006 for intake and .009 for exhaust.  Got it where I could just barely get a .07 into intake and .010 into exhaust but couldn't wedge a .08 or .011 in there.  It didn't change anything though.

[Morse]

If I do replace the mains, what should I go to?  All the way to 108?  I've seen that some people run them.  Also where is a good place to get them?  I see lots of kits with like ten different mains but none of single jets that seem very reasonably priced.

[The emperor has no clothes]

If I do replace the mains, what should I go to?  All the way to 108?  I've seen that some people run them.  Also where is a good place to get them?  I see lots of kits with like ten different mains but none of single jets that seem very reasonably priced.

I can't imagine that would be the issue. I'd save your money. This has been a very confounding set of issues. I sure hope you get it figured out. I think the coil ground is where I'd start next.

[Ricky-D]

The actual coil being grounded is for the actual produced spark to find it's home.

The production of the spark is thru a ground supplied by a "switch" inside the ECM, and there is a positive charge
being constantly provided to each coil to facilitate the production of the spark.

***

[indybobm]

Morse, interesting what you said about the engine quitting at WOT until you bring the throttle back to about 1/4.

Out of curiosity, is there evidence of wiring modifications by the previous owner? Anything that screams 'Why did he do that?"

[Morse]

Ah, thanks for the info on coil operation Ricky-D.  Sounds like it probably wouldn't be a good idea to create a constant ground to override that switch...

Also thanks meathead for saving me some dough.  I have an extra set of 100 mains that are sort of buggered up.  If I end up with extra time on my hands I might try to drill them out to 110s just to see if it makes any difference.   I also don't see that being the issue though.

indyboom, no weird wiring really except he took off the kickstand switch and spliced the wires together.  I pulled it apart, very lazy crimping job.  Also he did it way at the end so the wire could dangle and reach the exhaust.  Seemed like a good way to have the engine turn off at full speed.  I soldered them for now and tucked the wires up and away. The switch is totally missing from the kickstand. Putting a switch back in would be a project for another time once this runs.

The other electrical strangeness is that the blinkers flash too fast.  I put OEM ones on (broken stalks) and they still went fast.  Seems odd.  The only reason I can see for the fast blinking is that the indicator light next to the neutral light is out.  Also everything in the tail end was wired by me.  The rear fender was either replaced or chopped and needed to be wired up.  Don't think that would affect anything though. 

I have checked the connections in all the areas I think could be relevant and haven't found anything.  I've also checked all the relays except the flat temperature one that initiates the 'too hot' light.

One thought I had, what if the crank case breather is partially clogged?  it was stored with the airbox off so things could have gotten down in there.

[pancho]

If you haven't already done it, I'd check the ignition pulse generators Morse. Check for correct installation and replace them with another set for a test if they are correctly installed and oriented.

I believe this is an electrical/ignition problem, not a fuel issue.

[Morse]

Thanks Pancho.  I've looked at them and they seem properly oriented, they look like the picture in the manual (17-12).  I've read that if they fail they totally go out but you never know, it is listed as a possible cause of a weak engine in the troubleshooting section of the manual. I should probably just swap them and make sure.  I'll need to check if the 'wing P/N is the same.  Those ones are way cheaper on ebay. Either do that or find a cheap peak voltage tester.

I've been thinking of coming at this a different way.  Rather than trying to solve the problem I'd just like to make a difference in the bike, worse or better.  So far everything I've done hasn't had any effect at all.

My thoughts at the moment are on either side gapping the plugs or getting some of the reduced central electrode plugs to see if I can make the spark a little stronger or weaker and see if that changes my top rpm or throttle response.

I am thinking of changing out the mains on 5 and 6 to roughly 110s because 5 and 6 are easiest to get to and because i'm drilling them (from an extra set of 100s) myself and would rather drill 2 than 6.  Obviously if there is any positive difference I'd swap out them all out with non-drilled larger jets.

swapping pulse generators.

Does anyone know what all of the sensors are that affect timing or anything with the ignition system?  So far I've swapped the ect and the ICM and checked all relays and fuses.  I'd like to either unplug every sensor that would have any affect or swap it out. 

Could the kill switch or ignition switch possibly play a roll in this?

I have I/S springs coming in today in case the diaphragm springs are too strong to let them open (possible but unlikely that PO swapped them with the wrong springs)

Any other ideas would be welcome.  Thanks

[indybobm]

The most intriguing aspect of this to me is how the bike responds to the throttle. You said that at WOT it revs to a certain RPM then acts like it just shut off, When you you reduce the throttle to 1/4 open it comes back to life.
Questions:
1. As soon as it dies, can you bring it back to life by reducing the throttle to 1/4 or does it take awhile?
2. Is it repeatable if done many times in a in the same cycle?
3. what do you mean when you say that you swapped the ect? The sensor on the thermostat housing?
4. You suggested stopping the bike after it quits to check the plugs to see if they are wet. Have you done this?