Texas RULES

[cookiedough]

way to go Texas to allow guns in places of worship.

Just saved some lives for sure today - great job.

too bad the rest of the world cannot take note of this and allow law abiding citizens to do the same.

https://www.channel3000.com/firearms-instructor-took-out-gunman-at-texas-church-service/

scary world we live in today with NO ONE having a conscience of just spraying bullets at human lives meaning nothing to them.   

Serk (and others) ,  you  live in a wonderful state!

[Robert]

Most churches today are armed or have security measures in place.

[f6john]

This shooter used a shotgun! Kudos to the man who took him out in 6 seconds. No wasted resources housing and trying such a wasted life.

[DIGGER]

Our church has armed members in place during services.....and we live in Texas

[Chrisj CMA]

Our church has armed members in place during services

Ours does too here in Florida. I’m one of them. The head of the security team is a good friend. No one really knows who all is armed but we are ready but praying we never need it

[cookiedough]

Most churches today are armed or have security measures in place.

Not a church goer, but pretty sure none around me in small towns are either armed or security measures. 

[scooperhsd]

Our church has armed members in place during services

Ours does too here in Florida. I’m one of them. The head of the security team is a good friend. No one really knows who all is armed but we are ready but praying we never need it

And THAT is the attitude to go into it with - ready but not eager to do it.

[Pappy!]

I would almost bet that every single church in the US is having a new discussion about having armed church goers!
I would definitely want to be having this discussion.
The photos alone from the church incident were startling enough in that you realize just how much of a sitting duck all of the people are by looking at the overhead photo(s).

[Willow]

Most churches today are armed or have security measures in place.

I would contest the use of the term most.  Many would be accurate but I doubt most is correct.

I would almost bet that every single church in the US is having a new discussion about having armed church goers!
...

Nope.  Not so.  I can verify that there are at least some who are not having the discussion.

We as a society (and very often individuals) seem to be driven by the "news" media.  When an incident is reported we begin to get all excited about how that is what we need to protect ourselves from even when the chance of our experiencing that incident is a very small fraction of a percent.

I have no problem with groups that have decided to use armed security.  I've no problem with simply allowing licensed carriers to carry during congregational gatherings.  I don't think this is high on the list of what ALL churches should be focused on.

I'm glad the Texan was able to take out the shooter before anyone else was damaged.  I'm a bit confused by the description the shooter's sister had regarding her brother.

[old2soon]

           I KNOW the Church I attend in Missouri has An Armed Security team. While I am NOT part of the Security detail I let it be known I can be counted on in an emergency. I ALWAYS sit near the back close to one of the three double entrance doors. But like Texas living in Missouri we have Enough gun laws on the books too really be Not that restrictive but it DO in fact weed out felons and such like. Course criminals will ALWAYS be able to git their paws on weapons of destruction.  Kudos to the Good Samaritan in Texas that dropped the perp.  RIDE SAFE.

[MAD6Gun]

           I KNOW the Church I attend in Missouri has An Armed Security team. While I am NOT part of the Security detail I let it be known I can be counted on in an emergency. I ALWAYS sit near the back close to one of the three double entrance doors. But like Texas living in Missouri we have Enough gun laws on the books too really be Not that restrictive but it DO in fact weed out felons and such like. Course criminals will ALWAYS be able to git their paws on weapons of destruction.  Kudos to the Good Samaritan in Texas that dropped the perp.  RIDE SAFE.

 My father was part of the discussion on security at our church. They talked about it at length. They started by numbering all the doors so if there is a problem the police will know what door to go to. I'm not sure we have a security group in place but I carry when I go to church. What kind of world do we live in that we feel the need to carry to church?

 Joe Biden said back in September that the new law put in place by Gov Abbott  "it's just absolutely irrational " and Bloomberg said that only the police should have guns. If that hero and his friends hadn't had guns no doubt more people would have been killed. PERIOD.  I'm tired of liberal morons with security details telling the rest of us we don't have the right to protect ourselves. Yes we have the right. The constitution guarantees it.

 Kudos to Jack Wilson for hitting a moving target in the head from 50 feet away. Quite a shot...

[Gryphon Rider]

I'm a bit confused by the description the shooter's sister had regarding her brother.

Do you mean this?:

Amy Kinnunen said her brother was bouncing between the homes of friends, though White Settlement is where he most recently lived. She described him as religious and said she didn't believe the shooting was a political act or one of revenge.

"Any problem that you had, he could give you a Bible scripture. He was very close to the Lord. I believe that is why he chose the church," she said.

(cited from https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/30/us/texas-shooting-keith-thomas-kinnunen-profile/index.html)

I know that people can appear sincere, presenting themselves as loving, knowledgeable, religious people, but unwilling to truly repent and trust God rather than relinquish their pride and hate, letting temporal circumstances determine their actions.  Arguably the biggest test of whether one's faith is true is how one reacts in trying circumstances.

I suspect Keith Kinnunen blamed God for his circumstances, including his brother's suicide, letting it turn to hatred of God, motivating him to kill those who represented God to him.

James 2:2-4 (ESV) - Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Kudos to the Good Samaritan in Texas that dropped the perp.  

While Jack Wilson's actions were proper for the circumstance, I don't think "Good Samaritan" fits his role in this story.

[Chrisj CMA]

There’s a time and a place for everything. Guns being needed in church is a sad statement for sure. They are needed today.  What isint helpful are “gun free zones”. I believe that’s why churches and schools are targeted.

More energy should be put into denying people access to guns that shouldn’t have them and less energy into designating where someone allowed to carry can carry. There should be almost no areas that are gun free.

[RDAbull]

My church had an armed presence, even though the priest didn't know about it.

If needed, many would have been thankful:  If not needed, most would have never known.

There we a small few of us who took it upon ourselves, no need to publicize.

[Chrisj CMA]

My church had an armed presence, even though the priest didn't know about it.

If needed, many would have been thankful:  If not needed, most would have never known.

There we a small few of us who took it upon ourselves, no need to publicize.

I do believe it’s better when there are plans in place and people on the same sheet of music about rules of engagement and tactics. Just being armed is good. Coordinated teamwork is way more effective

[RDAbull]

My church had an armed presence, even though the priest didn't know about it.

If needed, many would have been thankful:  If not needed, most would have never known.

There we a small few of us who took it upon ourselves, no need to publicize.

I do believe it’s better when there are plans in place and people on the same sheet of music about rules of engagement and tactics. Just being armed is good. Coordinated teamwork is way more effective

Couldn't agree more Chris, but sometimes the obvious is not so obvious to oblivious people.

[Forge]

Many in my synagogue carry, INCLUDING our 70+ year old Rabbi!

[Bighead]

I would almost bet that every single church in the US is having a new discussion about having armed church goers!
I would definitely want to be having this discussion.
The photos alone from the church incident were startling enough in that you realize just how much of a sitting duck all of the people are by looking at the overhead photo(s).

Photos? Did you see the video? If not PM me and I will get you a link. I wont post it here.

[Savago]

Kudos to the fine gentleman that was able to stop the shooter with a single shot!
 

A question though: it seems the shooter had previous problems with the law (arrested 2 or 3 times?). Is it legal to buy a shotgun in Texas if the buyer is a convicted felon?
 

[hueco]

Kudos to the fine gentleman that was able to stop the shooter with a single shot!
 

A question though: it seems the shooter had previous problems with the law (arrested 2 or 3 times?). Is it legal to buy a shotgun in Texas if the buyer is a convicted felon?
 

No. To legally buy any firearm from a FFL dealer one has to go though NICS background check. Which is a Federal check. There is no such thing as a state check.

[Jess from VA]

He almost certainly did not buy his firearm from a dealer, and obtained it illegally.

That's what criminals do.

See how well laws only aimed at the law abiding work against criminals?

We’ve helped him on several occasions with food,” Farmer told the Chronicle. “He gets mad when we won’t give him cash. He’s been here on multiple occasions.”

Remember the signs in Parks about not feeding the animals?  Feeding them makes them dependent, needy, and they keep coming back. 

The best part of the story.

The only clear shot I had was his head because I still had people in the pews that were not all the way down as low as they could. That was my one shot,
https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2019/12/1862/1048/ChurchShooting1.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

Good guys with guns.  That's how you stop bad guys.  Laws only make them laugh.

[Rams]

What kind of world do we live in that we feel the need to carry to church?

We live in a world where the cowards that do such deeds of evil look for targets of the least resistance.
You don't see them targeting places like Police Stations or Marine bases where they might have someone shooting back at them.

My church had an armed presence, even though the priest didn't know about it.

If needed, many would have been thankful:  If not needed, most would have never known.

There we a small few of us who took it upon ourselves, no need to publicize.

I respectfully disagree, about the need to publicize, if a murderer believes there will be armed resistance, they may choose a different target.   But, it would be important to keep those charged with security incognito/un-identifiable, unless they have a desire to be the first targets.

Rams  

[LTD]

Took him out with one shot under extreme pressure. Mighty fine shootin Jack Wilson Im impressed.

[Patrick]

The best response to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Remember that, or something like that?

I can't count the number of times I've argued that point with some dumbass liberals. It has happened quite a few times over the years. Yet, once again it happens. Its amazing, but, not surprising, the number of folks I've just heard complaining about this recent incident. A firearms instructor should not be allowed to carry a firearm in church regardless of the outcome.

[Rams]

The best response to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Remember that, or something like that?

I can't count the number of times I've argued that point with some dumbass liberals. It has happened quite a few times over the years. Yet, once again it happens. Its amazing, but, not surprising, the number of folks I've just heard complaining about this recent incident. A firearms instructor should not be allowed to carry a firearm in church regardless of the outcome.

Your dumbass liberal acquaintances (or their children) obviously don't attend the church that was attacked.   If they did, my bet is they would be praising that fire arms instructor.   

Rams