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Toovalks
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« on: January 06, 2020, 08:53:41 PM » |
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Question is... How 'much' service should I do to the rear end on a 99 standard with 13k on the ODO.
The bike started it's life in Arizona...now in Mich. I'm changing the Metzler to an ATT and I'm hoping , barring any ominous appearances , to only do the Moly lube with O-rings,washer and a good clean up.
Any real reason to go any further???
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Gondul
Member
Posts: 260
VRCC #408
Central Florida
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2020, 03:30:42 AM » |
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Pull, clean, and lube the drive shaft...may as well replace the oil as well, just make sure it is hypoid gear oil.
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As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion....
John Adams - 1797
Because Thou lovest the Burning-ground,
I have made a Burning-ground of my heart
That Thou, Dark One, hunter of the Burning-ground,
Mayest dance Thy eternal dance.
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2020, 04:22:15 AM » |
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Pull, clean, and lube the drive shaft...may as well replace the oil as well, just make sure it is hypoid gear oil.
+1 |
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sandy
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2020, 08:12:49 AM » |
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A good rule of thumb is to service the rear drive at every rear tire change. You used the term "Moly Lube". Please don't use Hondas paste. A good quality moly grease that's waterproof is much better.
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RWhitehouse
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2020, 08:47:07 AM » |
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Did you find an ATT for sale somewhere, or have one sitting on the shelf? Far as I knew they've been unobtanium for around a year now.
For a new-to-you bike, definitely recommend pulling the drive and inspecting/lubing the splines on the driveshaft and pinion cup. Ideally, the pinion cup will be sloppy wet with hypoid oil, that was Honda's design intent, but for whatever reason, they are bone dry seemingly more often than not, so once the grease dries up they wear rapidly. Clean any crud out of the pinion cup and ensure the two oil holes are clear, otherwise you'll definitely never get any gear oil up there. Lightly apply a good moly grease (the pastes dry out very quickly), not so much it'll squish out and plug the two oil holes in the cup.
The "rule of thumb" is to check/regrease every rear tire change, or 15k miles, whichever comes first. Personally I think that's a bit overkill, I checked mine after 15k and it looks like I had just regreased it yesterday, but I also live in a warm/dry area and very seldom ride in the rain. Or wash the bike. Lol. I'm currently at about 20k on my ATT and recently measured it at 5/32 center and 6/32 edges, I believe 10/32 was new, so guessing I'll get maybe another 10-12k out of it.
Meanwhile my buddy's Valk had never had the drive pulled until about 55k, and the pinion cup was soaked in gear oil and splines looked absolutely brand new. Why some drives circulate oil up to the cup and others don't is one of the great mysteries of the universe.
A kit with improved o-ring seals are available from Redeye. On 20+ year old bikes these are frequently found to be damaged or missing entirely, they're very easy to overlook at tire changes. This won't cause oil leaks, but if they are missing/bad, the grease on the wheel splines will dry out/wash away much faster.
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Toovalks
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2020, 07:42:11 PM » |
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Thankyou all... the bike is not new to me. I've been riding it for 2 years on the Metzlers. I did buy the ATT about 1.5 years ago... if I had known... I would have bought 2 and stored it in a climate controlled dark vault...haha... Just so I'm clear on something... I only have to pull the pumpkin to service the drive shaft??? right??? I read the manual and I thought it said something about having to pull something together with the final drive??? I bought 2 set of four rings and thrust washers from Honda and Redeye for both of my Valks.
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« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 03:40:38 AM by Toovalks »
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Gondul
Member
Posts: 260
VRCC #408
Central Florida
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2020, 03:54:14 AM » |
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If I'm not mistaken the 'pumpkin' is the final drive...the drive shaft will come out when you unbolt the unit from the housing.
And use the final drive flange from the tire to line up the drive shaft splines...
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« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 03:56:46 AM by Gondul »
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As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion....
John Adams - 1797
Because Thou lovest the Burning-ground,
I have made a Burning-ground of my heart
That Thou, Dark One, hunter of the Burning-ground,
Mayest dance Thy eternal dance.
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rug_burn
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2020, 07:59:00 PM » |
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Don't forget to take a small stick or a Q-tip and make sure the small hole in the pinion cup is open so that the rear end iol can get up to the splines on the drive shaft. The seal between the rear end of the drive shaft and the pinion cup will almost certainly need to be replaced too after 21 years. They turn rock hard with age (if only- lotta jokes there)
And by the way- what's an ATT?
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...insert hip saying here..
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Toovalks
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2020, 08:39:12 PM » |
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So... I need to get a D.S. seal as well huh???
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16773
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2020, 02:31:30 AM » |
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what's an ATT?Allstone Tractor Tire  -Mike "I don't think they make them anymore..."
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0leman
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2020, 08:38:28 AM » |
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what's an ATT?Allstone Tractor Tire -Mike "I don't think they make them anymore..." Funny, thought it was Taxi tire not tractor tire.  |
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2006 Shadow Spirit 1100 gone but not forgotten
1999 Valkryie I/S Green/Silver
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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2020, 08:45:09 AM » |
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what's an ATT?Allstone Tractor Tire -Mike "I don't think they make them anymore..." Funny, thought it was Taxi tire not tractor tire. Dang. I was hoping for a picture of a tractor tire on a Valkyrie |
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Hook#3287
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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2020, 09:03:52 AM » |
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So... I need to get a D.S. seal as well huh???
It won't hurt anything. That seal is more of a dust and dirt guard, than a seal. I've only replaced one in the dozens of times I've had a drive shaft out. As far as doing the service goes, it's a good rule of thumb to do it every 10K or tire swap. But, before it became the current way of thought, I put 80K on my original Valk before I understood why I should. When I did the first, everything looked like new. |
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Hook#3287
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2020, 09:06:46 AM » |
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Uh, Rob, that's not exactly what Jeff asked for.  Good try though. |
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..
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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2020, 03:05:30 PM » |
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Toovalks
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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2020, 05:22:10 PM » |
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Sorry... do you have another link??? never have and GOD willing never will have a Facebook account...greatest source of disinformation ever ...IMESHO
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hubcapsc
Member
Posts: 16773
upstate
South Carolina
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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2020, 06:35:58 PM » |
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Sorry... do you have another link??? never have and GOD willing never will have a Facebook account...greatest source of disinformation ever ...IMESHO
Once you get the wheel off, remove the four nuts that hold the final drive onto the swingarm and pull the final off, the driveshaft will come out too...  -Mike |
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2KVISRiderDan
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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2020, 06:45:23 PM » |
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I believe the correct name is Austone Taxi Tire. I don't think tractor tires are speed rated high enough for your Valkyrie!
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2005 Yamaha Midnight Star SOLD
1997 Yamaha Royal Star Std SOLD
2000 Blue & Grey Interstate
2001 Black & Champagne Solo Interstate
1998 Blue & Cream Valkyrie Standard Roadsmith Trike
1997 Black Standard
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2020, 06:49:03 PM » |
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Sorry... do you have another link??? never have and GOD willing never will have a Facebook account...greatest source of disinformation ever ...IMESHO
I do not. Keep the link and watch it when you can. It shows how easy it is to remove the drive shaft if you know how. And to reinsert it. As to FB I use a made up name. Wrong date of birth and no other personal information. I ignore the crap and laugh at the videos of animals doing silly things. edit And there are a number of Valkyrie FB pages with good tech info. |
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« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 06:50:35 PM by Britman »
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rug_burn
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2020, 08:47:04 PM » |
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the seal i'm talking about is the one on the driveshaft at the pinion cup. Both times they failed, got hard, cracked and came apart, the splines wore out right after that, in my case. Those seals are what keeps the lube in the splines.
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...insert hip saying here..
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Dagwood
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« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2020, 06:58:47 AM » |
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Give a hollar if you get hung up or just need some moral support. I'm about an hour from you. Of course this will be after the coming ice storm and standard 3-4 day power outage  |
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Youth and Skill are no Match for Age and Treachery  |
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Toovalks
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« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2020, 09:13:01 AM » |
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Thanks Dagwood... happy to know you're so close by!!!  |
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BINOVC
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« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2020, 10:04:34 AM » |
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Getting ready to replace my back tire (bought a 205/60 Yokohama Avid Envigor, my first DS), and looking for all the info about doing the final drive maintenance (my first stab at that as well).
1] I get "content isn't available right now" when I click BigBF's facebook link above. ??
2] Also can someone provide a link to "Dag's" video? I have not been able to find it, but have seen references to it.
3] I bought Loctite LB 8012 Moly Paste (65%). I'm a little uncertain as to exactly where to use this, vs where to use regular grease (I have Valvoline 70133 Cerulean Multi-Purpose Grease).
I bought the 3 o-rings from Redeye, and a new thrust washer if needed.
Advice appreciated, as always!
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BINOVC
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« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2020, 05:06:03 PM » |
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Thanks Gordonv, seen both of those. Guess I thought the Dag video was more on the actual final drive.
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BINOVC
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« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2020, 08:50:22 AM » |
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As to where to apply moly paste, I just found some of the older threads about that, and now realize why ChrisJ's write-up strays a little from the service manual.
Also found a great 5-part write-up in valkyrieworld by Wood Butcher.
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nogrey
Member
Posts: 939
Live every day as if it were your last
Nampa, Idaho
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« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2020, 09:42:21 AM » |
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Did you find an ATT for sale somewhere, or have one sitting on the shelf? Far as I knew they've been unobtanium for around a year now.
For a new-to-you bike, definitely recommend pulling the drive and inspecting/lubing the splines on the driveshaft and pinion cup. Ideally, the pinion cup will be sloppy wet with hypoid oil, that was Honda's design intent, but for whatever reason, they are bone dry seemingly more often than not, so once the grease dries up they wear rapidly. Clean any crud out of the pinion cup and ensure the two oil holes are clear, otherwise you'll definitely never get any gear oil up there. Lightly apply a good moly grease (the pastes dry out very quickly), not so much it'll squish out and plug the two oil holes in the cup.
The "rule of thumb" is to check/regrease every rear tire change, or 15k miles, whichever comes first. Personally I think that's a bit overkill, I checked mine after 15k and it looks like I had just regreased it yesterday, but I also live in a warm/dry area and very seldom ride in the rain. Or wash the bike. Lol. I'm currently at about 20k on my ATT and recently measured it at 5/32 center and 6/32 edges, I believe 10/32 was new, so guessing I'll get maybe another 10-12k out of it.
Meanwhile my buddy's Valk had never had the drive pulled until about 55k, and the pinion cup was soaked in gear oil and splines looked absolutely brand new. Why some drives circulate oil up to the cup and others don't is one of the great mysteries of the universe.
A kit with improved o-ring seals are available from Redeye. On 20+ year old bikes these are frequently found to be damaged or missing entirely, they're very easy to overlook at tire changes. This won't cause oil leaks, but if they are missing/bad, the grease on the wheel splines will dry out/wash away much faster.
What he said!! ☝️ |
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O-B-1
Member
Posts: 222
Show ain't over until the Fat Lady sings
Vancouver, WA
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« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2020, 11:50:56 AM » |
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A good rule of thumb is to service the rear drive at every rear tire change. You used the term "Moly Lube". Please don't use Hondas paste. A good quality moly grease that's waterproof is much better.
I bought a small tub of Dupont Moly lube that ran me about $75.00! Stuff goes a long ways. |
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David W. Mitchell
1999 Honda Valkyrie GL1500C
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F6Dave
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« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2020, 06:37:46 PM » |
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Has anyone mentioned the torque sequence? That is BY FAR the most important thing when putting it all back together! When reinstalling the rear wheel you MUST tighten the axle nut BEFORE tightening the 4 nuts that hold the driveshaft tube to the final drive. That aligns the drive spines between the wheel and final drive. If you tighten the 4 nuts first, there's enough play in the 4 holes that the drive splines may mesh at an angle, which will force the splines to grind constantly, sort of like a U-joint. Then it doesn't matter what grease you use there, the splines will quickly wear down. The grease for the drive splines isn't that critical. For well over 100,000 miles I used a can of wheel bearing grease I bought over 30 years ago. As the photo below shows they still looked great at around 140,000 miles. As for the driveshaft I've used Honda's moly paste at the U-joint in front. For the pinon joint end I started following the advice from the service manager at a pretty good Honda shop. He said he'd seen too many cases of the oil hole in the pinon cup clogging, so he just packs the cup with as much grease as possible, and makes sure the oil seal is good. I've heard of others using his method, and so far I've had good luck with it. The pinon may be the weakest link in the driveline and is worth some extra attention.  |
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jmint
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« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2020, 09:40:17 AM » |
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Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I'm having difficulty finding the O-ring set for the rear end service. I was pretty sure it was linked before or part numbers given, I just can't find it now.
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Ramie
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« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2020, 10:19:46 AM » |
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“I am not a courageous person by nature. I have simply discovered that, at certain key moments in this life, you must find courage in yourself, in order to move forward and live. It is like a muscle and it must be exercised, first a little, and then more and more. A deep breath and a leap.”
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mello dude
Member
Posts: 947
Half genius, half dumazz whackjob foole
Dayton Ohio
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« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2020, 04:43:52 PM » |
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* There's someone in my head, but it's not me.......
* Mr. Murphy was an optimist....
* There's a very fine line between Insanity and Genius.....
* My get up and go, must have got up and went.....
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h13man
Member
Posts: 1746
To everything there is an exception.
Indiana NW Central Flatlands
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« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2020, 09:00:00 PM » |
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A good rule of thumb is to service the rear drive at every rear tire change. You used the term "Moly Lube". Please don't use Hondas paste. A good quality moly grease that's waterproof is much better.
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Shaft.html#Grease |
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jmint
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« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2020, 09:42:00 AM » |
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all good info, thanks for the help!
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