still as true today as a few years ago

[Oss]

After the recent school shooting, many well-meaning people of all faiths are told by the media that the problem is the gun. However, the gun is no more at fault than a parent’s car is at fault when one’s child is killed because they were texting or drinking while driving. How many thousands of young people (and adults) die or suffer grievous injury as a result of distracted and drunk driving. Yet where is Hollywood or the mainstream media on this true crisis? We do not ban cars, or phones. We ask people to be responsible for their use of both.
To say the gun, or AR15 (by the way AR does NOT stand for Assault Rifle, it stands for the name of the manufacturer) caused the tragedy misses the point entirely.
The failure was with the school system and our criminal justice system. Government itself at all levels failed us. So how do we fix the Government which failed and I submit could not be bothered to protect the victims or intervene to help the young man who became the shooter. Certainly the opportunities for intervention were many and over a great amount of time. If proper diligence was used the young man and the victims could be alive today. Let us hope honest investigation yields changes in how school threats are assessed and dealt with. Is society better off when a student’s behavior, cruelty, bullying is ignored? And what of those who are victims of bullying, what help is given to them so they themselves do not seek misguided justice?
Clearly, criminals do not obey laws, whether gun laws or other laws. Criminals will always find the tool, whether it be a knife, a hammer, a gun or a threat to do their work. The reality is gun laws do NOT deter criminals. Case in point, the murder rate in Chicago. Criminals will take all possible opportunities to prey on the weak. Making citizens of our free society weaker by eroding 2nd Amendment rights while making the government stronger is not the answer. As history shows a stronger government must always yield less civil rights to the people. Our Constitution recognizes this. Due process and equal protection are in peril when legislators fail to recognize the true problems and their causes.
What is needed is a criminal and education system that teaches respect for life, school systems that report violent threats, do not ignore them or sweep them under the rug. Also, parents who teach their kids at all stages that we all matter.
We live in a society that teaches kids killing is fun, we patronize and support a liberal Hollywood that glorifies death in many forms and live in communities that do not reach out to help all its members. In short as Pogo said, “we have found the enemy and he is us”. We must do better for our families.

-----------------
So what has government done for us in the intervening years since I wrote this?
Nothing at all.
Perhaps there will come progress some day.
It can not be in government attempting to take away what it has no business to do
Our right to bear arms was codified exactly so that no government, foreign or domestic, could take away a citizens right to defend his or her family and possessions. Pity those who will not understand,
as police do not prevent crime, at best they respond after tragedy strikes.
Perhaps if those wack jobs in Congress and in Hollywood had no security details, or walls around their homes their perception might change some.....nah won't happen.

I need a ride, maybe tomorrow will be nice

[Jess from VA]

Evan, I'm in full agreement against government 2d amendment violations, and in trying to do better at parenting, education and counseling of wayward youth (and adults).  And once upon a time the churches (of all denominations) of our land did a lot of good in this respect (and probably still do).

However, the number of defective units among the human species can never be cured (or even significantly reduced) by parenting, education and counseling (or any other social programs).  Or any legislation of any kind.

Human behavior is controlled by the hammer and the carrot.  The carrot is mostly for children.  Criminals and deviants are beyond the carrot.  The fear and/or operation of an effective and efficient criminal justice system from cops, to prosecutors and judges, to prisons (with the rare execution) is how our governments deal with criminals (the hammer).

We mere citizens only have the 2d amendment to rely upon to protect ourselves and families.  

Or call 911 and hope for a 5 second response.

If the governments of this country don't believe we citizens need modern semiautomatic firearms to protect and defend ourselves, how come that's all they arm their military and police with (except they also get fully automatic arms)?  

The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.  This guarantees citizens the right to keep and bear the same small (man portable) arms used by all military and police everywhere.  If it doesn't, it's meaningless.

[DDT (12)]

Evan,

Thought provoking... Politicians need to display leadership, initiative, decisiveness, boldness, deep intellect. Few, if any at all, have much of it! So, they do the next best thing... sort of like we did as kids... they pretend! To show 'action' they look for targets of opportunity, typically the lowest hanging fruit, to go after and showcase their 'wares'...

We can't solve the 'drug addiction' riddle, so we make certain drugs illegal, and we go after pushers and dealers. No way that can work in the long run, because as long as there is high demand and huge reward, there will always be supply. Intervention/interdiction of supply is always 'after the fact' reaction, and... by definition behind. Always trying to figure out the most recent 'successful' supply initiative and 'fix' it. Chasing the tail, but demonstrating energetic activity, and diligent effort…

Addressing the 'supply' is after the fact... addressing the 'demand' is the only possible way to 'solve that riddle'... if it even can be addressed. However, to deal with that aspect is to take unpopular action with ordinary folks (voters), the users or consumers, of those products. No way to get votes by pointing stuff like that out, so we spend (waste) enormous amounts of money chasing solutions with no hope of meaningful success. The consumers have someone else to blame for the problem, politicians claim 'sincere, diligent ‘caring’ effort', the supply continues to feed the 'market' and reap enormous rewards, and everybody is happy with the 'solution'.

I view gun control from that same sort of philosophical perspective.... and similar to the way you apparently do, as well. Personal responsibility has to be at the core of all behavior in societal, communal, group settings. The role of government is not to control all individuals and protect them from themselves! The role of government is to establish reasonable, necessary, and agreed to, limits... the boundaries, the outside edges beyond which no one should step. It should also be there to intervene when individuals cannot or will not observe or respect those limits.

I’ve maintained for decades the illegal drug, illegal immigration, and soon-to-be illegal gun commerce problems will never be solved… There is simply too much money involved! And, because 'morality' cannot be legislated. I do not and will not use illegal drugs of any sort… including pot. Not because I necessarily object to any or find them unpleasant or unnecessary, and especially not because I see any need for them to be unlawful on the face of it, but for purely philosophical reasons…

Because the huge profits from those trades have corrupted all levels of governmental bureaucrats, political practitioners, and individual members of society. Because the nexus of all aspects is the consumer, the source of demand, I cannot bring myself to ‘contribute’ to that 'values' decay. The moral fiber of our entire society has been eroded some, and deep divisions within the general population have been and are being exploited by opportunistic politicos to further their own aims; and, because current focus and efforts are entirely futile, I simply decline to participate in the charade…

Eliminating guns will not eliminate violence from our society. Solid gun control initiatives did not keep Timothy McVey from making his ‘statement’. 'Reasonable' machete control would not have prevented recent attacks and resultant deaths… Background checks and three-day cooling-off periods before allowing purchase of smart phones would not prevent texting while driving deaths… However, ‘thoughtful initiatives’ by ‘imaginative’ politicians will produce election and re-election victories… not to mention enormous financial windfalls for any willing to cross ‘the line’…

DDT

[old2soon]

          Our two resident barristers have valid well thought out points. A lot of deplorables such as myself can see the erosion of society and how that erosion affects everyone in everyday life. The ones doing the loudest griping-wuz gonna use another term-most likely have armed security details have fired very few or no rounds from any weapon(s) and most likely under any circumstances leave to go anywhere in public without their security. And fer some cursed reason traveling from Missouri to Illinois when I crossed the Mississippi River into Il. my 2nd amendment Rights are abridged and I am no longer legal-per Il. LAW-to exercise my CCW RIGHT. And Not JUST Illinois-couple of left and right coast states I can't carry in LEGALLY according to that state. When we went to W V in 16 soon as we crossed into In. I was Legal all the way to W V and when Ross and I crossed into Md. our pieces were on the bike Not on the person. IF politicians would Just do the job they were elected to do and follow the Laws already in place and use the U S Constitution the way it's supposed to be used and NOT attempt to dump a duly elected P O T U S cuz they hate the man MAYBE just MAYBE we could get this country back on course.    
           To our in house Barristers-Has anyone gone against the state gun laws that nullify our 2nd amendment Rights to carry successfully? Such as the b s i put up with here in Il.?   Most of us here KNOW the problems but last I checked she/they still here!   sigh!   RIDE SAFE.

[Oss]

Dennis  I hear rumors that POTUS is putting up a 50 state reciprocity on handguns but do NOT know the specifics.  DDT and Jess, thank you for your thoughts.

Such a law is long overdue as 2nd Amendment is a RIGHT not to be infringed and is not a PRIVILEGE which some pencil necked miscreant (AOC or Cuomo or your Illinois and Virginia governors for instance) can simply legislate away or in the case of the 9th circuit make a decision and stomp out. Perhaps if we were like Switzerland and every year everyone had to take free gun training that would be a step in the right direction.  What is forbidden is guaranteed to pull one toward, the lesson of the garden of eden.

To me the 2nd Amendment is as "holy" as the right to vote, to procreate, to practice or not a religion, to speak one's mind, even though I do not carry (not ruling it out in the future but certainly not in NY )

Perhaps like DDT I walk the other way when I smell or see maryjane lit up. But not because I look down on anyone who partakes for a philosophical reason but because I was hooked bad in younger years. Kind of like a recovering alcoholic I just will not put myself in position again to go down that road.  Missed a lot of fun parties at Inzanes and elsewhere but it is what it is and no regrets.  You can smoke em or vape em if you got em just don't blow it in my direction.

My rememberer muscle just pulled out the memory of me and Bonnie and others including Taz (where is he at??) riding behind Shftr during a ride to the railroad in Pa back in 2004 or 2005 and wondering why I kept smelling pot.  He had cigarette lighters hooked up on his bike and would smoke successive cigarettes and doobies during a ride.  He had big pain issues.

Miss that man and wingmomma  Used to make a point of stopping at Midway Diner to meet them on my way south on 78-81 every year.   

[Bighead]

Funny thing when someone blows up a building with a bomb NOBODY blames the bomb but the person who detonated it.  But when someone shoots someone they immediately blame the gun not the person who did the shooting.   shows me “they” are not very concerned about anything other than a TOTAL ban of firearms. Yet they all have their armed security details. Let their guards start carrying switches and a pocket full of rocks.

[..]

Guns banned in U.K.

Bad guys still have guns.

Duh!

[0leman]

Thinking back on most, if not all, school shootings occurred because a student was bullied.   Who is to blame for this, surely not their fellow students who did the bullying.  /sac   

Most of the blame for these events goes back to their fellow students.   Yeah the school teacher/administration should also shoulder some of it.  Parents also.   NO blame should be on the weapon used. 

Not sure about the rest of you, but when I grew up, we settled our problems with our fist or just endured the bullying, not using the bullying as an excuse to hurt those not involved the bullying.

[old2soon]

Thinking back on most, if not all, school shootings occurred because a student was bullied.   Who is to blame for this, surely not their fellow students who did the bullying.  /sac   

Most of the blame for these events goes back to their fellow students.   Yeah the school teacher/administration should also shoulder some of it.  Parents also.   NO blame should be on the weapon used. 

Not sure about the rest of you, but when I grew up, we settled our problems with our fist or just endured the bullying, not using the bullying as an excuse to hurt those not involved the bullying.

         Fist city-ZACKLY. And then after fist city it was OVER and you either became best friends or you avoided each other fer the rest of the time in school. Been there done both. RIDE SAFE.

[cookiedough]

exactly,  use to fist fight beating each other with our bare hands in high school.  Problem is society and our schools today will NEVER allow fighting by hand and if doing ANY of it at all,  they get suspended or kicked out of school not just a slap on the wrist detention like we got as kids, if that even, usually just a verbal warning to not do it again.

Kids and young adults nowadays are not going to fist fight never having done it as a youth, but find other means thus the guns come into play and I believe kids mental competency is lacking more so nowadays than ever before.

My age 19 kid now in college just a few years ago when in high school wished he would just pick a fight with someone while in high school just to say he done it since NO ONE does it EVER in the schools.  Kids are told to walk away or tell the teachers/principal, etc. and not resolve it with fists from Kindergarten on up. 

I had 1 incident with my oldest daughter when in 5th grade when a mental friend of hers lost it for no reason and turned around and punched her in the  gut bruising her ribs, etc.  and took 3 teachers to control the mental girl her kicking and biting them and cussing.  She only got suspended for 3 days and I had a LONG talk with the principal at the time.  She assured me if it happened again she would be banned from school forever having the police dept. involved as well.  Back in my day,  one hit like that to me and game on,  that other kid would be pulverized until the teachers dragged me off the bloodied body.  Did that to my best friend once he deserved it.  This keeps bullies to stay clear of me even if ganging up on me I stood my ground and took on 3-4 all at once even as an 8th grader taking on a senior bully once he pushed me hard against a locker, so I ran up after him blind siding him slamming him up against the locker VERY hard as I could and ran away not catching me in the hallways...   

I would like to see those little 14 year old dirtbags in Madison WI attempting to steal my car several 100s being stolen.  If caught,  they might not be able to get up and walk away for a very long time.  Jail time would be worth it to me!