Home Improvement Bull$hit, Here We Go Again

[G-Man]

When it comes to home improvement jobs or hiring someone to do ANYTHING around my house, I have been very unlucky.  I have had such bad luck that I have neglected to take care of some pretty big jobs that can't be put off any longer for fear of being ripped off again.

Since I have had bad luck with hiring out of the yellow pages and by word of mouth, I went through Angie's List this time and only chose companies with a "A" rating and good reviews.

Two companies have come by and discussed the job (a tiny 4'x8' bathroom) and took measurements.  Both also said "We're not pulling permits, right?"

HOLY  F_CKING  SH_T ! ! ! ! ! ! !  Is there not ONE home improvement contractor who is on the level?  I mean, there are even TV shows dedicating to bad and devious contractors, and the first thing they ask is about going around the law.

 

[Big Rig]

Based on experience, go to your local zoning office and ask if they could recommend or know of a reputable contractor.

I am not sure what you need to have done, but if they are not touching plumbing or electric, you may not need a permit. So they may not be going around the law...


 

[old2soon]

          All I'm gonna point out Gary is My Brother is a good honest contractor. BUT you two most likely live too far apart. Surely someone on our board in your area Knows a Good Honest Contractor. Good luck on yer quest Gary. RIDE SAFE.

[shadowsoftime]

Make sure they have insurance, bonded and call ins co. to verify.

[G-Man]

Based on experience, go to your local zoning office and ask if they could recommend or know of a reputable contractor.

I am not sure what you need to have done, but if they are not touching plumbing or electric, you may not need a permit. So they may not be going around the law...
 

Bathroom needs a new installation exhaust fan with light overhead.  Fixtures replaced but locations stay the same.

[bscrive]

It is really hard to find a good contractor.  Even if the guy is above board, it doesn't mean that you won't get ripped off.  It happened to a family member of mine.  Got a licensed contractor to build their house  The guy even lived in the same town as them.  He built many houses in that town as well over the 40 years that he lived there.  They gave him a 50G down payment and he disappeared.  Turns out that he scammed a bunch of other people as well and moved out of country.

I am so glad that I do the stuff around the house myself.  My dad was a contractor, so I learned how to do everything.

[Oss]

my brother in law Barry is a home improvement contractor

After getting screwed over by MCI and Verizon he decided to do what he always loved

He is licensed, insured, meticulous and honest

Call me for his number

[Moonshot_1]

With Big Rig on this one. Maybe the project doesn't require permits as presented and they want to know that you want it stay that way. Do you know if your project requires permits?

[old2soon]

Based on experience, go to your local zoning office and ask if they could recommend or know of a reputable contractor.

I am not sure what you need to have done, but if they are not touching plumbing or electric, you may not need a permit. So they may not be going around the law...
 

Bathroom needs a new installation exhaust fan with light overhead.  Fixtures replaced but locations stay the same.

        Ladder pliers screwdrivers turn off the power BEFORE starting the job. If not clearly marked Which breaker or fuse pull the main. Fairly easy job if it's a straight R & R. But I've seen fairly easy jobs go sideways before.   RIDE SAFE.

[G-Man]

Based on experience, go to your local zoning office and ask if they could recommend or know of a reputable contractor.

I am not sure what you need to have done, but if they are not touching plumbing or electric, you may not need a permit. So they may not be going around the law...
 

Bathroom needs a new installation exhaust fan with light overhead.  Fixtures replaced but locations stay the same.

        Ladder pliers screwdrivers turn off the power BEFORE starting the job. If not clearly marked Which breaker or fuse pull the main. Fairly easy job if it's a straight R & R. But I've seen fairly easy jobs go sideways before.   RIDE SAFE.

They'll be talking about the great fire that burned down White Plains for decades if I get involved in electric work.

[old2soon]

       Gary-an old gnarly electrician let me in on The Secret of doing electrical work a Long time ago. The Secret-keep one hand in yer pocket!  RIDE SAFE.

[Patrick]

Exhaust fan and fixtures only ? They are simple.

I'd recommend the local Chamber of Commerce and Better Business Bureau.

[f6john]

You need to expand your circle of friends. License means nothing other than the issuing party makes money and insures they get there cut at the end of the year. Insurance is important but has nothing to do with quality of work. I worked as an installer and remodeler for 20+ years and never filed a claim. I never worked in a major metropolitan area either and doubt I could handle the bs of permits and inspections. At any rate the job you describe, I would come over and help you knock it out or do it for you as a friend but the plane tickets could get pricey! Access to the ceiling above the existing fixture is an issue and could complicate things or with plenty of access, easy easy. The electrical issue is minimal.

When access is limited and being able to completely remove the old fixture is problematic, I have found a few companies that can supply replacement parts for your existing “can” and go that way. Also check with lumber yards and even the box stores and talk to the sales folks at the pro counter sometimes they can help. Of course if everyone in your area is a crook it makes it difficult to feel like you’re not being taken advantage of.

I am currently into the 12th month of remodeling the entire main level of a house I bought about 18 months ago while living in the basement. The house is only 20 years old and I am uncovering a lot of half ass work even though the structure is sound and built with good materials. When I am done I will have touched and refinished or replaced every square inch of the  main floor. I am just a tight sob when it comes to money and a very critical customer when I am paying someone else. Pretty darn critical of my own work too.

Best of luck to you as you move forward.

[Big Rig]

Based on experience, go to your local zoning office and ask if they could recommend or know of a reputable contractor.

I am not sure what you need to have done, but if they are not touching plumbing or electric, you may not need a permit. So they may not be going around the law...
 

Bathroom needs a new installation exhaust fan with light overhead.  Fixtures replaced but locations stay the same.

If this is replacement...then you should not need a permit. Insured, bonded and licensed is a MUST...and that permit typically assures that the contractor has everything aligned.

Not sure of your level of handiness around the house, but if you can wrench on a Valk...these are jobs that you can handle...

If I was close by I would knock these out for you in an afternoon...

[sandy]

I know two things about electricity; It hurts when you get it on you and it's hard to wash off.

[scooperhsd]

Everyone needs to know their limits - and what jobs they can safely do and those they should farm out...

[Jess from VA]

In my county, permits are only used to enrich the county by the fee, and then raise your real estate taxes.  They don't actually come out to inspect the completed work; athough they might have driven by my house.

Now I want the work done right by people who know what they are doing, and they should do it to code, but getting the G involved should not be necessary to accomplish that.  

Having said that, there may be jobs where if you don't pull a permit, the G is certain to discover it later, and that would be a mistake.  But I doubt that's the case for your work.

Is it possible that insurance companies that insure homes (in the area), might have advice on reputable companies for home repairs?  Since they often have to pick up the bills for such work.

Though I am no fan of insurance companies either.   (except USAA) 

[Funbaldguy]

https://installedbuildingproducts.com/locate-branch-locations/

[da prez]

  I , personally would not use angies list to scrub a toilet.  Contact a home inspector and ask if he does repairs or recommend someone.
  In Illinois , the only license required is roofers and plumbers.
  If the first thing is to go under the radar , there is problems. What recourse do you have if something goes wrong.

                                           da prez

[G-Man]

I may have misrepresented the job.... It's a complete gut job of the bathroom.  Footprint remains the same.  Only thing "new" would be the addition of the overhead electric exhaust fan with a light and the gfc outlet moved to a better location (forgot about that).  The rest is just sheetrock, concrete board, shower pan, some reframing for cabinet and shower niche and tile.

You wouldn't believe the estimates for a 4' x 8' room.  Been checking comps in my area and I'll get back more than 100% of the investment if I did the work and flipped the house tomorrow so now's the time to do it. 

It's the middle of the night, Cheryl is working and I'm a bit wired so the thought s just keep coming.......  I buy a nice bathroom every year for the amount I pay in taxes, ..... every year.  I asked if we could move but she said NO.  Forget a bathroom, in a few years I could have a spa with a valet handing me cloth towels after washing my hands and I wouldn't have to tip him.

Gonna watch TV now.  Gotta think of a place to take Cheryl for dinner later.  Happens when you marry a nurse, sometime you celebrate a day later or a day before.  No biggie, she's good at what she does and having her as your nurse on Valentine's day would be a really good thing for any patient.

[Hook#3287]

After decades of residential construction work, I decided to use my experience differently.   Doing residential construction these days is very difficult, mostly the biggest difficulty is being able to find and afford employees.

I recently became a Certified Building Commissioner and am now a part time Building Inspector in my hometown and another just south of me.  I'm the guy you come see to get a building permit and call to get required inspections completed.

Most states have adapted the ICC (International Code Council) 2015 or 2018 IBC (International Building Code)and IRC (International Residential Code) codes, with some states including amendments.

I complete ALL of the required inspections.  I'm not signing off on something I have not seen.

I can't speak to NY, but in Mass, only 2 class of people are allowed to pull a building permit, Homeowners (not property owners) and Licensed Construction Supervisors.

If you are removing drywall, a building permit is required.  If you weren't removing drywall, but were only swapping fixtures, then you would only need a electrical or plumbing permit.  Also, if you were only removing a small amount of drywall to access the plumbing or electrical, a building permit is not required. Homeowners are allowed to pull permits and complete electrical work, but not plumbing.

I do not (and I believe most building depts do not) give out suggestions of contractors.  It puts the municipalities into possible liability.

Any contractor that says "We're not pulling permits, right?" should have a explanation for not requiring one or shown the door.  Check the reason given with your local building dept.  Always ask for and follow up on references.  Check with the local BBB.  Ask for references at local lumber yards, not big box stores.  Even banks may have suggestions.  Do your homework.  MAKE SURE TO SEE A WORKMANS COMP CERT!!  Any contractor that has gone through the BS to get coverage, is ECSTATIC to show it off. While not a requirement from my office, ask to see a liability cert.
 
As the property owner, you are responsible for all work performed on your property.  It is your responsibility to see the job is done legally.  It is my job to see it is done correctly and to code.

You can demand an inspection if your inspector does not show up, in Mass I have 48 hours after notification.  The ICC gives 30 days.

If the inspector is a no show, file a complaint with both the local municipality's appointing authority (Mayor, Manager, Selectboard, etc) and the State Licencing Board.

I look at my job in this light.  I'm protecting the interests of the present property owner, but more importantly, the future owners, who will have no idea of the quality of work performed before they became owners.

[Robert]

The prices charged the quality of the work performed, the worrying and dealing with the money and down payment, the sloppiness and lack of caring about doing the work in your home of some and the time frame all make doing most of my own work a plus. Unfortunatly unless you have previous experience with a contractor you have no idea what you are getting. I dont know if its only in this area but have heard many horror stories of making off with deposits.

I was laughing one time along with the contractors I hired.

We had to put a new electrical panel in the house and I did not want to do the work. Not to mention heavier wires would have to be pulled from the main panel to the sub panel. It is to cramped to tedious and needed more hands to get done quickly, so I know some of my local guys and went to one and we agreed on price and they did the work. Good job but as we have an older house the existing panel was only for 60 amps.    NO problems but decided to upgrade to a 200 panel a standard on most in the area and much more than enough coming from a 60. So when the inspector came in he asks, I dont have any plans for anything else what are they doing. The implied meaning is, why the 200 amp panel since the house does not need it. Future proofing is a concept that I guess doesn't compute in the building dept. Both the contractor and me had a laugh.   

Another thing about permits, When they insure your house many companies pull records and look for permits for work done. Also in the selling, they sometimes pull permits for the same reasons. In selling many want the house brought up to the code that is now in existence regardless of what has been working ok or was the code for the house when built. So they may make you pay for upgrading it to the current code. So big work like electrical panels are best permitted.

If I was doing a bathroom and not replacing any thing except for the small things you listed and was handy I would do some of the work myself. Demo is kind of fun and challenging but you can save some by doing this. This is the easiest thing to do and when the contractor comes in and its clean and ready for build out, its so much easier and sometimes much less. Not only this but it saves the aggravation and you know what you are dealing with once everything is exposed. Pick out your fixtures, plan your bathroom and just have the contractors install and do the finishes you want. It saves in time planning the markup of fixtures and makes you look like you know what you want. It all can still be permitted under the contractor doing the work and you will be saving money. One other benefit in doing it this way is time, when  you see what you have to do and if you have to pull permits you can start that immediately. Sometimes permits can take weeks in a busy area. I have had friends with pools and such that it took 6 weeks just to get the permit for the fence.

If you find the contractors do the individual jobs rather than pay one person to plan, install and do all the work it will also come out cheaper. You essentially become the boss of the job. This also works out better because if something goes wrong its not one person who has all your money and the control of the job.

For you and your wife's sanity make the house as mess proof as you can and the entry and exit ways clear out and put something on the floors that you can pull up and keep your house clean while construction work is going on.

[0leman]

Couple of years ago, DW decided that she wanted  a gas cook stove (tired of electric one).  The rub was that we didn't have gas line to our home.  Also she wanted a gas fireplace.  So, I found a good local person to do the job.  Was impressed with his work (and yes he got all the permits).  He had to run some 40' feet of gas line in the house to do the job.  installation of the fire place was preformed to our satisfaction. 

The rub came was DW initially thought that she wanted a Gas cook top and electric oven.   This would not require a 120 line run to the stove area (the gas fire place had to have a line run to it for auto controls and run by a electrician) .  So two weeks after fire place is installed, DW decides on totally gas stove which needs a 120 line.   I have installed several 120/220 lines over the years and its no big deal (rewired garage when moved in 10 years ago, and yes had a permit and was inspected).  So off I go to get a permit.  they wanted $116 for the permit to run one line.  Great, paid for the permit.  Install the line (hate crawling under home).  Called to get inspector out, only took a week (not problem as new stove is slow in coming).  Inspector gets there, looks at the box along wall and as says OK.  Didn't ask about how I put the line in or where I connected to service box.  $116 for a permit, hwy robbery. 

[cookiedough]

I do not see what the big deal is of spending money to get a permit, especially if doing most yourself or with knowledgeable friends, local guys?  I know both my neighbors beside me finished off their basements  living bedrooms and all with no permits done.  One did it himself and it shows while the other fancier neighbor hired out but doubt any permits were done.

I guess it depends on where you live somewhat?

I installed new bathroom ceiling fan with new vent tubing going thru my attic to exhaust fan on roof.  Hardest part was crawling up the darn attic (getting older and stiffer) routing the new tubing decided to go with larger tubing for exhaust to remove more moisture, seemed to help some.  I also had to cut with jigsaw a one inch bigger hole thru wood to route the tubing and stuff insulation in as needed.

[shadowsoftime]

Call Lowes or Homedepot, and you are covered.
Buy the items from them and they install.

[old2soon]

        Some metro areas reason in the long run is to up your property taxes. Another words-revenue. RIDE SAFE.

[F6BANGER]

Not shouting but  "DONT PAY THEM UNTIL YOU ARE HAPPY WITH THE WORK."  When I was a general contractor, I didnt ask for money until the job was done and they were happy.

[G-Man]

I do not see what the big deal is of spending money to get a permit, .......

Depending on what the permit is for, it alerts the municipality that you are either adding or improving, which will raise your taxes.  In Johnson City, a 50' x 50' deck will raise property taxes by $5.  Here an 8' x 16' deck will raise your taxes by over $300 the first year, then compound it by the usual and customary increase we get every year.  I'll pay for the deck twice more in taxes.

[cookiedough]

I do not see what the big deal is of spending money to get a permit, .......

Depending on what the permit is for, it alerts the municipality that you are either adding or improving, which will raise your taxes.  In Johnson City, a 50' x 50' deck will raise property taxes by $5.  Here an 8' x 16' deck will raise your taxes by over $300 the first year, then compound it by the usual and customary increase we get every year.  I'll pay for the deck twice more in taxes.

no thanks,  my taxes went up full market value 600 bucks more this year being a fricking 20% rate increase vs. the normal past 25 years being 3-5% tops.  Only thing is everyone's house went up in entire village the same or more so I guess that is fair?  I do not need another permit to keep things going up more than a normal person can afford.   

[Bighead]

That is 100% why I do 99% Of my improvements.