something is wrong with Law Enforcement and School System?

[98valk]

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/os-ne-orlando-police-body-camera-6-year-old-arrest-20200225-rlg2ukttdvhehpoj2ki7irqe74-story.html


He told them he had arrested 6,000 people in his career — the youngest, to that point, was 7. When school employees told him Kaia was 6, not 8 like he thought, he did not seem concerned.

“Now she has broken the record,” he said.

Kaia, a first grader at charter school, had a tantrum earlier in the day where she had kicked and punched three school employees, leading to her arrest on a charge of misdemeanor battery, according to her arrest report. However, by the time Turner and another officer approached Kaia to detain, cuff and arrest her, the girl had calmed down, the video shows.

The school staff member who had been reading to her told Kaia she had to go with the officers, and that her grandmother would pick her up later.

While walking with the officer to the car, Kaia continued to cry, “I don’t wanna go in a police car.”

The second officer, who has not been identified, replied, “You don’t want to? ... You have to.”
>> RELATED: Policies not followed when Orlando cop returned to school day after arresting 6-year-olds, police chief says »

“Please, give me a second chance,” the girl responded, still crying.

The officers put her in the backseat of the police SUV.

Turner then returned to the school’s office, reminding one employee that he will need a statement from her, and said she will likely get a subpoena. The woman agreed, though she said she was upset.

The arrest report Turner completed said that a member of the school’s faculty, Beverly Stoute, had requested to press charges against Kaia, something the school has denied. The video does not show any staff member attempting to stop the arrest, though several are obviously rattled.

“The restraints, are they necessary?” one school employee asked.

“Yes,” Turner said.

Then, he added: “If she was bigger, she would have been wearing regular handcuffs.”

[Jersey mike]

I read this article and watched the video early this morning, all this for a temper tantrum. Instead of calling a family member they call the police. The school officials, IMO, suddenly realized they made a huge mistake when talking to the police officer. Instead of getting a family member there, the 6 year old little girl is zip tied and put in a police car like a criminal. Instead of school officials taking control of the situation, using some common sense and parental initiatives jump to the extreme involving the police because they can’t get the little girl to control herself, but when the office arrived she was supposedly calm and reading a book.

I wasn’t there, I don’t know the whole story if the child has a history of outbursts or what the family situation is so there may be circumstances not known to us but seriously, to zip tie the hands of a 6 year old girl and take her to jail, that’s just wrong.

[Reb]

Just re-instate paddling

[Jess from VA]

I don't know the history either.  And a history of violent acting out trouble could make this more understandable.

What I see is such a rigid history of social justice warrior mentality in schools taken to such extreme, that they can no longer take any action against anyone for fear of offense or lawsuit or breaking with dogma (or teachers afraid of getting fired), so they dump all problems on policemen.  (Who are mostly required on pain of termination to cuff (restrain) all suspects being taken away, and don't want to get fired either.  Which is generally a pretty good rule.)

I know what would have happened to me.  I would have been smacked or spanked or shaken (but not stirred) and shamed into compliance.  My mom might or might not have been told about it, and I sure wouldn't have told my parents.  However, looking back, I don't think I ever acted out this way in school or anywhere else, since I learned the rules of acceptable behavior at home... where they should always be taught.

Parents don't parent, and schools don't school.  So police are called to clean up their mess, and then criticized for following standard procedure (not designed around 1st graders).  

As crummy a deal of arresting a 1st grader is, I bet she will do better in the future.   Otherwise, it's back to the slammer young lady.  

I am reminded of the episode of Last Man Standing, where grandpa Bud spanks Boyd (just one light one on the caboose).  When told by his parents they don't spank Boyd, Bud says.... that would explain the confused look on his face.  

I wasn't spanked that many times, and only hard with a shoe once (after I flushed the car keys down the toilet in pure devilment).  Guess what, I was a quick learner, and quit breaking the rules (or doing better at not getting caught).

Human behavior control will forever be application of the hammer and the carrot.  If all you use is the carrot, you're going to get a substandard human.

[Sorcerer]

There should/ must be repercussions for ones bad behavior. If the school can’t, the family won’t then civilization must step in. They wonder what has gone wrong in the world. Maybe this child will get with the real program of life not the “ everyone gets a trophy “ bs. I’m betting the cop gets roasted.

[Jersey mike]

I don't know the history either.  And a history of violent acting out trouble could make this more understandable.

What I see is such a rigid history of social justice warrior mentality in schools taken to such extreme, that they can no longer take any action against anyone for fear of offense or lawsuit or breaking with dogma (or teachers afraid of getting fired), so they dump all problems on policemen.  (Who are mostly required on pain of termination to cuff (restrain) all suspects being taken away, and don't want to get fired either.  Which is generally a pretty good rule.)

I know what would have happened to me.  I would have been smacked or spanked or shaken (but not stirred) and shamed into compliance.  My mom might or might not have been told about it, and I sure wouldn't have told my parents.  However, looking back, I don't think I ever acted out this way in school or anywhere else, since I learned the rules of acceptable behavior at home... where they should always be taught.

Parents don't parent, and schools don't school.  So police are called to clean up their mess, and then criticized for following standard procedure (not designed around 1st graders).  

As crummy a deal of arresting a 1st grader is, I bet she will do better in the future.   Otherwise, it's back to the slammer young lady.  

I am reminded of the episode of Last Man Standing, where grandpa Bud spanks Boyd (just one light one on the caboose).  When told by his parents they don't spank Boyd, Bud says.... that would explain the confused look on his face.  

I wasn't spanked that many times, and only hard with a shoe once (after I flushed the car keys down the toilet in pure devilment).  Guess what, I was a quick learner, and quit breaking the rules (or doing better at not getting caught).

Human behavior control will forever be application of the hammer and the carrot.  If all you use is the carrot, you're going to get a substandard human.

I like what you said in your entire response and I especially agree with “ Parents don't parent, and schools don't school. “  Today it seems like it’s just the opposite, schools are suppose to parent and parents are suppose to school.

[Moonshot_1]

Jess has got a pretty good take away from this. I would probably add that there is also a fear of litigation from the school's perspective. To apply any form of discipline in that setting is to put yourself in legal jeopardy. If I'm in the teacher's or school's position, I am calling the police too if rational attempts to diffuse the kid fail. And if I am law enforcement I'm pretty much going to do what they did.

There are a lot of missing information on this particular story. My guess, and this is just a guess, is that this was not the first time the kid did something like this. My guess is that it happened before, discipline was applied and the parent threatened to sue if it happened again.   

[shadowsoftime]

6 years old, this is a 2nd grader. Childs problem is owned by parents. Police have no idea how to treat a child. Call parents to take child home, if they will not come call Child Welfare Agency, do not call police.
If someone does not intervene, this child will have a lifetime of jail and prison.   

[Sorcerer]

Retired cop working to pick up hours. FIRED. The video of the child at home showed a spoiled princess.

[Oss]

I would venture to say that if this happened in Communist China or Russia the parents would be in a re-education camp and lose their kids

Like the idea of calling child protective services, That would scare the crap out of the kid and the parents
which is the whole idea isnt it

Field trip in 6th grade to jail and they lock the door to the cell.  That is a learning experience

Anyone else have a similar one in school

[shadowsoftime]

I would venture to say that if this happened in Communist China or Russia the parents would be in a re-education camp and lose their kids

Like the idea of calling child protective services, That would scare the crap out of the kid and the parents
which is the whole idea isnt it

Field trip in 6th grade to jail and they lock the door to the cell.  That is a learning experience

Anyone else have a similar one in school

Would also cover the School from lawsuit.  
edit
Also have adult protective services,if you know any seniors being abused by family,resthome,etc.
They have more authority than cops and know how to handle the situation, child or senior.

[98valk]

I would venture to say that if this happened in Communist China or Russia the parents would be in a re-education camp and lose their kids

Like the idea of calling child protective services, That would scare the crap out of the kid and the parents
which is the whole idea isnt it

Field trip in 6th grade to jail and they lock the door to the cell.  That is a learning experience

Anyone else have a similar one in school

my six foot, 210lb dad who boxed in the Navy and did feats of strength all the time, was all of the learning experience my four siblings and myself needed while growing up.   

[klb]

Just re-instate paddling

Exactly. When I was in High School Mr. Leigh the principal
had a fiberglass paddle with dime size holes drilled in it.
I guess for less drag. The first and last time I experienced
the paddle as we called it was my only time.
Got my attention quickly. He would make you bend over
and grab your ankles then 5 licks. He would stall between
licks to make one unsure of when the next one was coming.
Pain is a Hell of a teacher. I got the message very quick.

[shadowsoftime]

Just re-instate paddling

Exactly. When I was in High School Mr. Leigh the principal
had a fiberglass paddle with dime size holes drilled in it.
I guess for less drag. The first and last time I experienced
the paddle as we called it was my only time.
Got my attention quickly. He would make you bend over
and grab your ankles then 5 licks. He would stall between
licks to make one unsure of when the next one was coming.
Pain is a Hell of a teacher. I got the message very quick.

You were lucky, our Principal had nails in his paddle.  LOL.

[shadowsoftime]

We were paddled 3 hard licks if you made below a C on a test.

[old2soon]

      When First Wife and the rest of our Family moved to Texas I tried too splain corporal punishment to the kids. Lets just say oldest Sons one and only time was nuff fer the other 3. Seems as if the schools splainin was way better then Dads splainin.  And my Children were fer sure and fer certain under double jepordy. First the school then the Parents. RIDE SAFE.

[Willow]

... Mr. Leigh the principal had a fiberglass paddle with dime size holes drilled in it.  I guess for less drag.
...

Actually the holes are to allow the air to escape on impact.  Trapped air under a solid paddle actually provides a slight buffer.

I grew up in the time also.  Well, I grew through that time.  There is some contention on when or whether I grew up.   

[DIGGER]

My dad didn't spank us 4 kids just to spank us.    You had to EARN a spanking.  Once he took that belt off you were gonna get it .   Also....if you swats at school you automatically got a spanking at home.   He once told us kids  "I ain't smart enough to help you with your science,algebra, chemistry, and calculous.   But what I can do is MAKE you mind your teacher."

[Pappy!]

Let me fill in a couple of gaps here.
I was married to an Elementary school teacher for quite a while.
Spanking for poor behaviour?
Corporal punishment is almost NEVER carried out unless a parent specifically endorses it at the time. They never would! "You ain't hittin' my child!"
Teachers cannot do much of anything to a student. They are taught how to restrain but they are well advised to have a witness in the room if any restraint happens.
She had students in her class that would routinely tear up the whole room, overturning desks, throwing books, ripping stuff off walls, confronting other students, etc. No learning could be taking place during episodes like this. Nothing could be done until there was sufficient manpower to handle the unruly child.
Kids would get up and tear out of the classroom and out the front gate! Let them go you say? The school is ultimately responsible once they are on school property!  
Another episode took place where a child had to be restrained and it ultimately sent my wife to the hospital plus another teacher! My wife ended up having to have surgery on her shoulder from the damage the kid did to her. The other teacher  ended up with stitches! The parent came in and raised Hell about the school restraining her little darling!
Parents who do not care are sending kids to school not to learn but for a state run babysitting service. Most of the low income kids simply did not want to be there and too many were taught that they did not have to obey authority. I said most, not all.
Very often when a parent needed to be called they would not answer the phone! Usually a grandparent would end up having to pick up the child.....who would be back in school the next day due to demands from the same parent who would not answer the phone in the first place!!
At her school there was a need for a full time "School Resource Officer".....in other words a full time police officer!
All too often kids who were out and out failing would be passed on to the next grade at the demands of parents.....the same parents would not help with homework or even promote doing it.
I would not be a teacher in today's school system for all the tea in China.

[Moonshot_1]

... Mr. Leigh the principal had a fiberglass paddle with dime size holes drilled in it.  I guess for less drag.
...

Actually the holes are to allow the air to escape on impact.  Trapped air under a solid paddle actually provides a slight buffer.

I grew up in the time also.  Well, I grew through that time.  There is some contention on when or whether I grew up.   

Man o man, if you were researching paddle aerodynamics you must have been bad ass in the day!

[Skinhead]

Let me fill in a couple of gaps here.
I was married to an Elementary school teacher for quite a while.
Spanking for poor behaviour?
Corporal punishment is almost NEVER carried out unless a parent specifically endorses it at the time. They never would! "You ain't hittin' my child!"
Teachers cannot do much of anything to a student. They are taught how to restrain but they are well advised to have a witness in the room if any restraint happens.
She had students in her class that would routinely tear up the whole room, overturning desks, throwing books, ripping stuff off walls, confronting other students, etc. No learning could be taking place during episodes like this. Nothing could be done until there was sufficient manpower to handle the unruly child.
Kids would get up and tear out of the classroom and out the front gate! Let them go you say? The school is ultimately responsible once they are on school property! 
Another episode took place where a child had to be restrained and it ultimately sent my wife to the hospital plus another teacher! My wife ended up having to have surgery on her shoulder from the damage the kid did to her. The other teacher  ended up with stitches! The parent came in and raised Hell about the school restraining her little darling!
Parents who do not care are sending kids to school not to learn but for a state run babysitting service. Most of the low income kids simply did not want to be there and too many were taught that they did not have to obey authority. I said most, not all.
Very often when a parent needed to be called they would not answer the phone! Usually a grandparent would end up having to pick up the child.....who would be back in school the next day due to demands from the same parent who would not answer the phone in the first place!!
At her school there was a need for a full time "School Resource Officer".....in other words a full time police officer!
All too often kids who were out and out failing would be passed on to the next grade at the demands of parents.....the same parents would not help with homework or even promote doing it.
I would not be a teacher in today's school system for all the tea in China.

It is a damn shame, isn't it.

[RP#62]

We're just glad we were able to raise our kids when 'child abuse' was still legal.  When the boys were little, if they did something that warranted it, I'd spank them.  My wife, on the other hand, would sit them down and explain why what they did was bad and how it made other people feel and it would go on and on for an hour.  One day, during one such event, I got there after the deed had been done and my wife was about 5 minutes into the lecture and both of the boys were sitting on the bed sniffling.  When I came in, the little one saw me and said, mid-sniffle, can dad just spank us.   We both lost it at that point and that was the end of the lesson and I don't think there were ever any more spankings.  We realized at that point that psychological warfare was more effective.

-RP

[The emperor has no clothes]

We're just glad we were able to raise our kids when 'child abuse' was still legal.  When the boys were little, if they did something that warranted it, I'd spank them.  My wife, on the other hand, would sit them down and explain why what they did was bad and how it made other people feel and it would go on and on for an hour.  One day, during one such event, I got there after the deed had been done and my wife was about 5 minutes into the lecture and both of the boys were sitting on the bed sniffling.  When I came in, the little one saw me and said, mid-sniffle, can dad just spank us.   We both lost it at that point and that was the end of the lesson and I don't think there were ever any more spankings.  We realized at that point that psychological warfare was more effective.

-RP

 

[Wizzard]

I learned there was a connection to not doing what I was supposed to and a sore butt very early on. Never forgot it. 

[Big Rig]

With the way things are in our law suit happy society, I can see escorting the young girl out of class...

I also wonder, can charges be made without arrest?? Oss???

With little to no back ground on this student hard to call from the video. I am sure it is not the first time...is arrest warranted??? I do not believe so...

I have two teenage boys in high school...they know how they were raised by my wife and me. There is no shananagins going on with them...Cause if Dad finds out...well..... temper tantrums got nipped very early in my house...so my guys know that is not how they get their way...

Also in talking with other parents, seems most kids have some sort of special eval classifying them with a special need....this student have be one...

I feel for my boys and their world moving forward...

[Gavin_Sons]

A little pain goes a long way in little kids minds. Talking to my boys does not help. 5 minutes after the talk they are back at it. If they get the wooden spoon it leaves a lasting impression for at least 2 weeks. Then you only have to threaten the wooden spoon for the next 3 months.

[DIGGER]

Once my two sons were 15 + yrs old it got easier to get yhem to mind........its called “THE POWER OF THE KEYS”.    I didnt let them buy their own vehicles, I supplied them with older model pickups.    I wanted total power of the keys.   Driving their respective trucks was a PRIVILAGE that could be taken away for a period of time if they did wrong.   Seemed to work well

[98valk]

We're just glad we were able to raise our kids when 'child abuse' was still legal.  When the boys were little, if they did something that warranted it, I'd spank them.  My wife, on the other hand, would sit them down and explain why what they did was bad and how it made other people feel and it would go on and on for an hour.  One day, during one such event, I got there after the deed had been done and my wife was about 5 minutes into the lecture and both of the boys were sitting on the bed sniffling.  When I came in, the little one saw me and said, mid-sniffle, can dad just spank us.   We both lost it at that point and that was the end of the lesson and I don't think there were ever any more spankings.  We realized at that point that psychological warfare was more effective.

-RP

 

[cookiedough]

Once my two sons were 15 + yrs old it got easier to get yhem to mind........its called “THE POWER OF THE KEYS”.    I didnt let them buy their own vehicles, I supplied them with older model pickups.    I wanted total power of the keys.   Driving their respective trucks was a PRIVILAGE that could be taken away for a period of time if they did wrong.   Seemed to work well

nice dad giving kids old trucks.   I did not have a car in high school really did not need one, but dad's old 1968 chevy was suppose to be MINE but did not work out that way since my older brother 4 years older rolled it driving home sort of drunk falling asleep at the wheel went into ditch and oversteered trying to get outta ditch and flipped it.  Probably a good thing, that old chevy car burnt more oil than gas I swear we were putting in 1 quart of oil every few weeks.  At least doing that did not need an oil change ever right?

having had an issue when my now 21 year old daughter was in 5th grade with an unruly mentally challenged/unstable female student punch in daughters gut  in classroom in a line for no reason bruising her stomach area and having to have 3 teachers control this student biting/kicking/screaming/swearing, sometimes a police officer like in our instance needs to be done knocking some sense into her stating if do it again,  complete expulsion from school vs. a 3 day suspension she got.  Now,  a 2nd grader though,  I doubt anything she did caused such an extreme  demand for cuffs in a police car without parents/teachers stepping in first.  I also gave a good talking to this girls parents whom I knew as well as the superintendent in our small school.
Needless to say,  my daughter never spoke to this girl ever again and neither did we to her parents all throughout middle and high school total class size about 23 is all.

However,  what is going on several months long now in Madison WI gets me irked big time.  There are dozens of 12-15 year old kids sneaking up stealing running cars going for joy rides then ditching them and some even have the balls to follow someone's car in another car behind them,  gently bump their bumpers all the while that person gets out of their car to inspect rear damage, etc. just long enough for another kid to jump out of the bushes or other surroundings and get in that person's car and drive off - NO JOKE.    Guess what,  the justice system lets them ALL GO nothing but a slap on the wrist, if that, and they still continue doing it over and over again knowing our court system will NOT do anything to them not putting them into juvenile detention supposedly being too young or overcrowding in youth detention centers, or so I heard.

Well, sooner or later these 13 or so year old kids are going to get killed by an adult picking on the wrong person and should the adults get blamed for their death - HECK NO!  Those little buggers deserve it IMO.

[Avanti]

Well, sooner or later these 13 or so year old kids are going to get killed by an adult picking on the wrong person and should the adults get blamed for their death - HECK NO!  Those little buggers deserve it IMO.


You can not take someones life because they take your car.  They need what I call real parents, a father and a mother.

[Jess from VA]

We don't know the past history.  But if she had been a chronic PITA to the school, what better way to generate some parental action then have them contacted by the cops telling them to come pick her up at the police station? 

Boy howdy that would have got me some parental action.

Back in the last century when I was in JrHi and HS, they would hold you after school for discipline (you just sat in the office and twiddled your thumbs), and you missed the bus, and you had to call a parent to come and get you.  We all understood that was for getting our parents attention more than our attention.  And it worked too. 

____

Reminiscing about such things, I was caught with beer at 17 (not drunk) (my sole lifetime misdemeanor), but only got an appearance ticket.  I had no intention of telling my parents, but was told by more experienced classmates that if I appeared before (former Marine) Judge McNally without a parent, I could expect to get a weekend in jail, so my parents would find out.  So I had to tell them, and man that was not a happy deal. 

So dad and I go to court (over the firehouse in those days), and I stand up and plead guilty.  And there is no podium to stand behind, just one of those standing microphones.  And I am so nervous, my knees started knocking and I couldn't make them stop.  It all went well until the judge asked where I got the beer.  I never expected that question, and I couldn't tell him about the little mom and pop store way out in the boondocks that sold to anyone who could reach the counter, because the place would get closed, and the whole school would know I ratted them out and cut off the main supply of beer.  So I just told the judge I would not tell him.  Well that went badly and the judge got angry and said he was just going to give me a fine, but now I was going to get referred for a presentence investigation, and I'd be back for sentencing in two weeks.... and I'd tell him where I got the beer then, or else.

Then out in the hallway, my dad was way angrier than the judge, and he demanded I tell him where I got the beer, and we would turn right around and go tell the judge.  Well I wouldn't tell him either, so he shook me and threw me down the stairwell.  Just a half flight, and I wasn't hurt, but that was the most violence he ever did me in my lifetime.  And I wasn't mad at him, I had it coming.

I did the presentence investigation thing.  And in only a few minutes of thought made up an entirely believable story of where I got the beer that did not involve the mom and pop store.  Something I should have been able to do in front of the judge, if I hadn't been scared sh!tless.

And it all went well, and I paid a $58 dollar fine.  And then I had to tell all about that serious conviction to get into law school, to take the bar exam, to be admitted to the bar, and to get into the Air Force and get a security clearance, and to work for USDVA.

All of that drama for a couple beers.  Sheesh!!!    And actually, I had only just opened one when I got caught.  The cops drank the rest of them.

[Gavin_Sons]

Well, sooner or later these 13 or so year old kids are going to get killed by an adult picking on the wrong person and should the adults get blamed for their death - HECK NO!  Those little buggers deserve it IMO.


You can not take someones life because they take your car.  They need what I call real parents, a father and a mother.

Pretty sure that is called grand theft auto and you have the right to protect your property. Yes they need parents but even then you get some kids that do this crap no matter what.  I have known some wild kids with great parents and now the kids are in prison. 

[Robert]

You know its sometimes a kid who is the school bully, but to the teachers has a great game face, only acting out rarely. Schools have become a war zone, so I am for a show of force, since it usually results in no harm and no foul but a check in the mind of someone that would want to act out in school. This especially in light of schools not being able to discipline children and the reporting on these incidents is suppressed by school policy. It also give police the idea to look into these students on social media a very important tool to see if there is a problems.
 
 I wonder if the school shooters would have had a chance if the police had acted on the signs of problems. By doing this it put the police and student on record of having problems. Then if an incident happens and force is used the school has records to indicate there were problems and law suits would be much harder. The stigma alone could prevent a bully or acting out in school in a time when parental discipline is at its seemingly worse. Hopefully someone would see the signs and question or even help a family having issues.

 Its a shame that parents have lost the ability to control and discipline their kids and the police have to do the job.

Today is not like the school fights in our years either, today its much more violent and guns can be involved, so yes temper tantrums can be a sign and yes we dont know what transpired before, it may be the teachers cry for help in a situation.